RabidRussian

Workbench Rent Costs

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On 24/06/2017 at 9:44 PM, dukerustfield said:

I'm not sure why I understand the whole renting concept to begin with. Why is there a fee on top of just farming/buying the components?

If there's too much currency in the economy, prices will rise to the point of insanity. The more money people have on average, the more items they can buy; an increase in the quantity of items bought means prices for these items become higher. You end up paying more gold for fewer items, newer players can barely buy anything, and the only viable way to make ingame cash is to grind, hoping to find rare items to sell on the market, as not even buying gold with real money is worth doing anymore.

Edited by NotASnowman
I wrote this at 2am, only just noticed I didn't quote the comment I was replying to
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On 24.6.2017 at 4:05 PM, NotASnowman said:

If there's too much currency in the economy, prices will rise to the point of insanity

No it won't, where do you think people buy materials to make weapons?

On 24.6.2017 at 4:05 PM, NotASnowman said:

The more money people have on average, the more items they can buy

That's not how demand and supply works.

On 24.6.2017 at 4:05 PM, NotASnowman said:

only viable way to make ingame cash is to grind

What else where you expecting?

On 24.6.2017 at 4:05 PM, NotASnowman said:

not even buying gold with real money is worth doing anymore

The prices for items have steadily dropped while the credits you get from buying packs have stayed the same, from what i can see it's more beneficial now than it ever was (not counting the changes pre-open beta). 

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2 hours ago, NiggNogger said:

No it won't, where do you think people buy materials to make weapons?

That's not how demand and supply works.

What else where you expecting?

The prices for items have steadily dropped while the credits you get from buying packs have stayed the same, from what i can see it's more beneficial now than it ever was (not counting the changes pre-open beta). 

I wrote that comment at 2am when I was very tired, I edited it to include a quote from the comment I directly replied to, so it should make a bit more sense now. I was trying to explain how removing money sinks like workbench rentals would affect Crossout's economy. For some reason, my sleep deprived mind thought it would be best to describe the long-term effect of currency inflation, without explaining why removing money sinks would cause them in the first place. The YouTube channel Extra Credits has a couple of videos on the subject of inflation, and how developers can fight it. They can explain this better than I can, so I'll link them below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sumZLwFXJqE

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I was about to make a similar post. I personally would prefer the workbenches to cost a little lower than what it is now. I know this wouldn't matter in the long term, but for players starting out like me, they would find a hard time to make 25 coins without understanding how the resources and market work. I started 6 days back, and I have made a good start, thanks to the guys on the chat helping me out personally. But before this happened I sold my initial 1000 scraps just to make a few coins and get that workbench and also some fuels. I also reinvested that money in copper and sold them for a small profit. After 3 days, luckily I understood how manufacturing works and now I am making some good profits. I almost have my resources for an epic item but after finding out that epic manufacturing workbench rentals for 5 parts to be 100C, its about 60-70% of my total inventory and coin balance included. 

It would be really convenient if the rentals are dropped by a few percentage (15-20%) preferably. However I don't like the idea of a dynamically changing workbench price according to the items on market, cause there might be days when rare items are less on the market and workbench rentals shoot up disabling lower earning players to even get the workbench to upgrade or make profits. 

 

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On 29.06.2017 at 1:47 AM, RenderRed said:

I know this wouldn't matter in the long term, but for players starting out like me, they would find a hard time to make 25 coins without understanding how the resources and market work

Perhaps some people are too new. I mean this not understanding would come from maybe a few hours of play, not more. Do the daily mission and sell scrap for coins, it couldn't be more easier. tosse any other loot by clicking sell. The price you see is the price you can get right now, if youwant higher you have to put it up for trade and wait. Pretty simple if you ask me.

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I admit that getting 25 is not easy. but after you do just sell at least one item you made and you will be able to continue renting out benches.

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On 6/22/2017 at 8:17 PM, Trigger_HappY said:

Work benches prices should be on par with the continuous deflation of the economy in price.

^^^

MDgMA4cA.jpg

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9 hours ago, Rabbitfrogtwo said:

Perhaps some people are too new. I mean this not understanding would come from maybe a few hours of play, not more. Do the daily mission and sell scrap for coins, it couldn't be more easier. tosse any other loot by clicking sell. The price you see is the price you can get right now, if youwant higher you have to put it up for trade and wait. Pretty simple if you ask me.

It is simple I agree. But still it takes time to understand how the game mechanics work and especially the dynamic marketplace especially those who are new to the game (especially this type of game). Only a handful of them know they have to win raids and farm copper, put fuel barrels and collect fuel, design decent battle vehicles with the humble weapons and gear they have, etc. The learning curve isn't too steep but neither is it too easy. There is also greed for better gear and weaponry not including the desperation to get more coins out of whatever they have. They might sell their precious few whites and then get stuck too long if they don't figure out everything quick or get help. Honestly, I browsed some reddit threads to get started with and luckily some people on the chat helped me out too. I am sure, otherwise I would have taken a longer time to understand everything. It looks easy when you are experienced but it is a bit overwhelming for people who just started and put a few hours in the game :)

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11 hours ago, Killing_King said:

I admit that getting 25 is not easy. but after you do just sell at least one item you made and you will be able to continue renting out benches.

Except that many items now sell for less than crafting them costs,

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On 7/1/2017 at 2:32 PM, ARES_IV said:

Except that many items now sell for less than crafting them costs,

The real low ones are items that are desirable,  and that shows what may need balanced,and improved. Like the scope for example.  All items must be more to craft than sell to prevent abuse. This is the reason for tax/bench rental/quick  finish. The bench rental is ingenuitive as it forces new players to look into the market. A better tutorial would be nice. 

 

On 6/22/2017 at 3:17 PM, Trigger_HappY said:

Work benches prices should be on par with the continuous deflation of the economy in price.

I disagree. A standard price helps keep the price of blues stable while the tax flows with the economy. 

Edited by *SlickToxin

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Just out of curiosity, what do they do for us who have paid for many 15 slot workbenches, even up to legendary?  Do we get our coins back?  B/c we should if they drop prices.  

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4 hours ago, TheLewtz said:

Just out of curiosity, what do they do for us who have paid for many 15 slot workbenches, even up to legendary?  Do we get our coins back?  B/c we should if they drop prices.  

Nothing. Why would you get your stuff back? Would you like a penalty tax for everything you sold also? Becuse prices are not the same now as it was then so you should not have gained that much money etc.

Edited by SuperGnu
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Workbench rent is useless. It's just an other way to make us loose our coins and time.

We spend lot of time to level up, why should we rent for a faction we obtained reputation ?

(Or, it won't change.... buy coins with real money, which is, in my opinion, what devs have in mind).

Edited by Nemrodh
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5 hours ago, SuperGnu said:

Nothing. Why would you get your stuff back? Would you like a penalty tax for everything you sold also? Becuse prices are not the same now as it was then so you should not have gained that much money etc.

What I'm saying...  is say they changed this tomorrow.  I just bought a 15slot legend workbench, if they dropped the cost or removed it.. wouldn't it be sorta craptastic if I am just "out" those coins.  Kinda unfair to me.

 

Personally, I think the workbench cost are fine, and helps to keep the price of items off the ground.  Other options should be looked at, but removing the workbench cost, is not one of them

 

One thing a lot of people don't realize is there is a difference in increasing your coin vs increasing your worth (storage value vs coin).  If you just want coins, that's easy.  Farm stuff, sell a little bit to get a workbench.. then farm more stuff and sell everything you make... other than the workbench cost, you only get income.  no outlet of coins.  This is saying you farm all the mats vs buy mats.  

THATS what most folks should be doing during their month, imho.  It has already been stated in other threads that buy maxing out caps, and selling everything, you can easily make 500+ coins a week or  more.  Plus the season stuff adds to that.  The problem is people want everything NOW NOW NOW, and think the grind is to much.

 

Try the real grind in MWO, WoT, etc etc.

Personally, I feel like most everything grind wise is spot on right now, except for scrap.  If we are to have caps, we should have "item" caps.. like total amount of resources each week through grinding, would make you 2 purples.  I think that would be a decent setup.

If you could grind/make much more than that in a week, most people won't play long.  Also people have the misconception that more PS = better better.  Honestly, I feel like the 4.5-6k PS range is the current sweet spot in the game.

 

Edited by TheLewtz
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The game feels a lot like the initial idea was a whaling machine similar to many of the Facebook application games. It feels, nearly, identical in terms of how you go about getting your items and the overall mission system in general. However, the core concept, visuals, gameplay, and the feel comes off as though the development team started with that notion in mind and then went, "You know...this is really friggan cool...let's make this thing shine!" and then made that whaling system easy to utilize as a free-based player without spending any cash.

It's a really strange hybridization.

You have a crafting and mission system that screams one-year lifespan application game combined with gameplay, visuals, and the core concept of a AAA title...until you get back to the Facebook application-style portraits. This is, literally, the direction that Twisted Metal should have gone in core concept...and one of only two free to play games I've ever spent money on. I'm normally very opposed to spending money on free to play games...but I'm having so much fun that I bought a pack. To be perfectly honest...I'd love to see them do a kickstarter and convert the entire thing into a purchase to play with the intent to tone down the application-game feel and just go all balls out with the gameplay itself and immersive aspects via lore, characters, voice actors, so on and so forth. Maybe even have character generation so we can make a driver rather than use a 2D pre-made portrait to represent ourselves. This game has so much potential...and I honestly think that it's being wasted in the way that they've designed the crafting system, faction system, this face-book application style feel to the missions, and what not. I understand that it's in beta...but the the way everything is set up seems foundational and unlikely to change in any extreme way.

It already seems to have been shifted in direction from what appears to have started out as a whaling system into something that is, surprisingly, pretty fair to free-based players...so I find myself wondering why limit the game through this type of system at all when it's not really needed and could just be set up in a more fluid manner?

I don't know, maybe it's just been too long since I've played a game like this...but the Facebook application-like feel to the game, outside of the gameplay, seems to be a feeling shared on Reddit.

Hopefully this doesn't come off as me trashing the game, because it's meant to be the exact opposite. The game is awesome and has so much potential, I just think the system outside of the gameplay is really watering down the overall game from what it could be. That's not to say that it's not currently fair either, because I was shocked to see that, even as a free-based player, it seems as though you can build up an economy within a decent amount of time and work from there...if you apply yourself, as TheLewtz mentions. I just find myself wondering why even go that path...and why the strange application-like feel outside the actual game itself?

Either way, I'm having an absolute blast with it.

Edited by TenebraeAeterna
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