RabidRussian

Workbench Rent Costs

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I think a better way of dealing with the cost of rent workbenches would to have just one workbench for each tier under one faction and as it would seem that we have to rent from the engineers in the first place why not have just engineer workbenches with a using the same lock system that is currently in place so that you can only craft items that you have the required faction level to enable you to craft, also it could be designed so that  you could craft items from different faction with out having to change faction every time you need to craft an item as long as you have the required faction level to craft such items.

I do agree that the only reason that with having workbenches for each faction is a way for the developer to make more money out of us, but have a one bench system would be better for everyone and it is a far more balanced system than the current system

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workbench for paints at 125 coins per use is the worst. Looking at gambling hundreds of coins to get a 90% chance of a white paint.

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On 22. Juni 2017 at 9:17 PM, Trigger_HappY said:

Work benches prices should be on par with the continuous deflation of the economy in price.

No it should not.

Do not change anything, or much people would be cheated because they invested a lot of coins to rent and build things.

They would cry for refund.

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also WHAT THE ACTUAL xxxx 400c for the "legendary" benches, i dont need to make 5 items, i just want to buy one individual use on the workbench. i'm certainly not giving you fuckheads $20 so you can let me make one xxxx item with materials i spent months farming.....

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9 minutes ago, Stewart_Mckinna said:

also WHAT THE ACTUAL xxxx 400c for the "legendary" benches, i dont need to make 5 items, i just want to buy one individual use on the workbench. i'm certainly not giving you fuckheads $20 so you can let me make one xxxx item with materials i spent months farming.....

No sane person pays actual money for coins, it is massively overpriced though.

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Even if people are forced to rent workbenches you can get the coins back from even crafting an item in the first place, rent a workbench for 25 and you can get that money back after crafting 1 item with a few coins or doubled the amount you used on the bench. For example if you're crafting rares, by the time you run out of the 5 items you can craft, you'll be at a value of 200 coins as most rare items cost around 40-50 coins. And by the time you craft one item you'd get your coins back from renting the workbench, all in all you'd get a good trade when you rent and craft one item on a specific workbench.

 

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On 9/25/2017 at 3:07 PM, Stewart_Mckinna said:

also WHAT THE ACTUAL xxxx 400c for the "legendary" benches, i dont need to make 5 items, i just want to buy one individual use on the workbench. i'm certainly not giving you fuckheads $20 so you can let me make one xxxx item with materials i spent months farming.....

I just saw this and sighed so hard it was like a balloon losing all its air. It seems I have been looking on a outdated guide where I saw that you could craft 1 Legendary for 150 coins. So I saved materials, crafted all the blues and purples I needed, unlocked the legendary workbench and see this. And with the big electronics nerf and all ... yep, newer players are really getting kicked in the groin while the vets already have their fun. I already bought one of the overpriced packs, spent my coins and nope, I will not buy another. I think it's time to rather move on to something else. These legendary workbench prices and the fact that you're forced to buy 5 slots minimum (with so few blueprints) really took the last will to play out of me.

Edited by Radbane
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if the price for work bench was to low  the market would be flooded with gear, or you would fuse all your gear, either crashing the market or making it irrelevant, to high having  the opposite affect keeping people from using the market or pricing rises.given the BETA nature of the game this Balance needs to be found now before full release (the BETA tag gets removed)

 so far for every hundred or so i spend crafting (rares)gets me 120 to 160 on average, so no complaint here,

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I say, WHY HAVE THE XXXXING MARKET SYSTEM AT ALL!? It's the center of so many problems that cannot POSSIBLY be fixed and are being continuously raved over by the community without any useful result. It's blocking game development as well, almost every improvement that's beneficial for the actual game has some sort of negative effect on the market.

We could just have the crafting system with free rents for common/rare workbenches and high prices for epic/legendary workbenches. Then make coins a completely premium currency like golden eagles in war thunder and buff epic/legendary/relic parts so that they're even more OP then now but with slightly higher PS(in order not to crash the balance). And then make relic parts and uranium ores completely premium also and make the steppenwolfs have a slightly expensive joining fee. Finally, make dawn's children a completely premium faction and raise their parts' PS.

This will make crossout more traditional in terms of economy, but still not destroy the 'craft, ride, destroy' slogan. If you want better OP parts, pay real money. If you're fine with common and rare parts, you can choose not to pay money but you'll be slightly less effective in battle. You can always raise your battle effectiveness by "gitting gud". As in war thunder, WoT/WoWS/WoWP, and many other games, The devs can still be very greedy in this system and make money. But at least it won't make the game completely unplayable.

No offence meant.

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2 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

We could just have the crafting system with free rents for common/rare workbenches and high prices for epic/legendary workbenches. Then make coins a completely premium currency like golden eagles in war thunder and buff epic/legendary/relic parts so that they're even more OP then now but with slightly higher PS(in order not to crash the balance). And then make relic parts and uranium ores completely premium also and make the steppenwolfs have a slightly expensive joining fee. Finally, make dawn's children a completely premium faction and raise their parts' PS.

Dude, what...?

Sure, make this game Pay to win. Why not?

OP means overpowered. You want to make items more overpowered and keep the balance. Alright.

2 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

This will make crossout more traditional in terms of economy, but still not destroy the 'craft, ride, destroy' slogan.

More like 'pay, ride, destroy or craft, ride, be destroyed'

2 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

If you want better OP parts, pay real money.

<SIGH...> Someone have tons of free money to spend and want to have an advantage. Wouldn't you like to buy something for yourself for this money? A piece of clothing? New pair of shoes? Nothing?

2 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

If you're fine with common and rare parts, you can choose not to pay money but you'll be slightly less effective in battle.

Yup, we get it. You need an advantage and p2w.

2 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

You can always raise your battle effectiveness by "gitting gud".

You can start with that.

2 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

As in war thunder, WoT/WoWS/WoWP, and many other games, The devs can still be very greedy in this system and make money. But at least it won't make the game completely unplayable.

I don't play anymore WoWp, so I have no idea what is going on. I ocassionaly play WoWs and I must say, there are some ships better than others but it's not as bad as in WoT. I stopped playing it and came here, because it causes more saddnes than happiness. Gold ammo, losing credits on higher tiers without premium account and OP (yes, overpowered) premium tanks is not what I signed for 6 years ago. And what do you mean by saying 'The devs can still be very greedy in this system and make money'. They are greedy, that's why they designed whole economics in WoT and marketing to do this. Over 4000 employees and check how many actually work on the game's engine, balance, bugs etc.

I don't even know how to finish this comment. If you are really enjoying pay to win, go play WoT, spend 400$ every month on new tanks, premium account and golden ammo. But don't pollute other games. Crossout is fairly free to play and pay to skip, but it doesn't matter. Once you master the art of building the right vehicles with effective use of parts, mass and weapons, you can easily be MVP every second, third match. And even when you lose a battle, you earn something. But nobody will take something from you. And that is magnificent.

2 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

No offence meant.

No offence taken and meant too.

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7 hours ago, TheRedSkull10 said:

Dude, what...?

Sure, make this game Pay to win. Why not?

OP means overpowered. You want to make items more overpowered and keep the balance. Alright.

More like 'pay, ride, destroy or craft, ride, be destroyed'

<SIGH...> Someone have tons of free money to spend and want to have an advantage. Wouldn't you like to buy something for yourself for this money? A piece of clothing? New pair of shoes? Nothing?

Yup, we get it. You need an advantage and p2w.

You can start with that.

I don't play anymore WoWp, so I have no idea what is going on. I ocassionaly play WoWs and I must say, there are some ships better than others but it's not as bad as in WoT. I stopped playing it and came here, because it causes more saddnes than happiness. Gold ammo, losing credits on higher tiers without premium account and OP (yes, overpowered) premium tanks is not what I signed for 6 years ago. And what do you mean by saying 'The devs can still be very greedy in this system and make money'. They are greedy, that's why they designed whole economics in WoT and marketing to do this. Over 4000 employees and check how many actually work on the game's engine, balance, bugs etc.

I don't even know how to finish this comment. If you are really enjoying pay to win, go play WoT, spend 400$ every month on new tanks, premium account and golden ammo. But don't pollute other games. Crossout is fairly free to play and pay to skip, but it doesn't matter. Once you master the art of building the right vehicles with effective use of parts, mass and weapons, you can easily be MVP every second, third match. And even when you lose a battle, you earn something. But nobody will take something from you. And that is magnificent.

No offence taken and meant too.

I don't think you understood my point. I never pay real money on F2P games. The point of my comment was that the MARKET IS RUINING THE GAME and should be done away with and replaced with a more traditional system. Of course it would be MUCH better if the devs weren't so greedy. but the devs want to be greedy. It's their nature to be greedy. So I'm showing them a way to be greedy without destroying the game 2 years later. I've played WoT and WoWP and WoWS and they've all become trash because of greedy devs. Then I saw how Gaijin was doing with War Thunder and it was at least better then WoT. So I thought that Crossout would be better with a similar economy system, WITHOUT the XXXXing market.

10 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

but with slightly higher PS(in order not to crash the balance)

 

10 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

raise their parts' PS.

What I'm saying is that there should be a large gap between high and low tiers. The non-paying users fight non-paying users and paying users fight paying users. That way, the low tier battles would be a bit less fun but fun enough for non-paying users and there won't actually be OP weapons in the high tiers because everybody else would have them too but battles would be more epic thanks to more powerful vehicles. 

And of course I was being sarcastic with the 'gitting gud' part. You TOTALLY misunderstood everything dude.

P.S. I always dream of a F2P game economy system in which the devs can be healthy, but make a relatively large sum of money on the way. Isn't there any economist out there who'd like to research this stuff?

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Making paying players and non-paying players in different category is... Strange, at least. It is not the way to fix anything. I personally like capitalism so strongly bound to this game. Constantly changing prices, demand and supply, made this game what it is. There was an episode in my history with this game when I wasn't playing, just buying and selling stuff. At least 15% of my equity was made by proper buying and selling. It was very important at the beginning when I was buying Avia boosters for 0.04-0.06 and selling in about third hour of racing for about 0.4. Twice a week I had free blue item and some money to spare. I did this by hundreds and it allowed me to easily increase my capital. After some time, I started crafting things. Always most wanted by the community and most expensive. Usually wheels from scavenger faction. I even made Excel sheet with self-uploading data from crossoutdb.com, calculating and evaluating most expensive item to sell. White items were cheap af so it didn't mater. After selling such item, I had enough money to buy any other with some coins to spare.

Now I play it more casually with friends, I have a few purple builds that I like.I'm not aiming for legendary weapons soon, I could craft Mammoth some time earlier and earn 200 coins after transaction (I had two Fat men and a Spectre bought cheaper), but I missed my chance when Hermit booster got suddenly too expensive to do so.

Market is your friend. When you will master the art of speculation and transactions, you will find yourself earning money without even playing the game. I understand that new players can be angry at this game when low PS Reaper kills their Chord builds in no time. But it's a craft game. You must build a hundred or more versions of a prototipe to make it work. Finding flaws in builds is vital, learning from mistakes even more. Every build can be countered. Even legendary mid-PS golden-paying builds. Find them and counter them. Just as many other players did.

Except for turrets. Those are pain in the as* and players who use them are flicking bast*** ***** with ****** *************  piece of human *******. And I don't like both them and their attitude.

PS: If you want to find a F2P game with healthy developers, you won't find. They are people, not gods. They cannot make everyone happy. Some decisions will make certain people raging. Just as hovers got their well-deserved nerf, there was a battle here which still continues.

Peace out.

"Capitalism is a God's way of determining who is smart, and who is poor"

                                                                              - Ron Swanson

Edited by TheRedSkull10
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1 hour ago, TheRedSkull10 said:

It was very important at the beginning when I was buying Avia boosters for 0.04-0.06 and selling in about third hour of racing for about 0.4. 

Did the market really work that way in the past? I wish that was the case now. But it isn't.

1 hour ago, TheRedSkull10 said:

when low PS Reaper kills their Chord builds in no time.

That's not why I'm angry.

1 hour ago, TheRedSkull10 said:

White items were cheap

This the problem for me. You need a certain amount of money to START trading and make progress. But because white parts and resources are so cheap, new players can't get enough money to start with unless they buy a pack(maybe this is intended?). 

1 hour ago, TheRedSkull10 said:

Constantly changing prices, demand and supply, made this game what it is.

I don't think so. As you said so yourself, it's a crafting game, not a buy&sell game. I started playing crossout because I could craft my own vehicle and use it in battle. We don't need the market to make this game work. It causes a needless double grind. "Craft, Ride, Destroy" is all we need. We don't need both the devs and the community to have their attention diverted from the actual gameplay by something else(the market).

1 hour ago, TheRedSkull10 said:

They cannot make everyone happy. Some decisions will make certain people raging.

That's NOT what I meant by "healthy". I meant them not being greedy and actually loving their own game and always thinking about ways to improve it instead of making it P2W and trying to get more profit out of it. But you're right about one thing; We'll never find one.

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3 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

Did the market really work that way in the past? I wish that was the case now. But it isn't.

It still is. You just need to find pattern in all of this :)

avia.thumb.JPG.b8014af8368b53086de5cb8ba

Source: https://crossoutdb.com/item/107

3 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

This the problem for me. You need a certain amount of money to START trading and make progress. But because white parts and resources are so cheap, new players can't get enough money to start with unless they buy a pack(maybe this is intended?). 

You need to sell your first resources. Also, easy season is possible to accomplish by new players. That gives a lot of scrap. Several hours of playing, that's enough to start some real buisness. I have never bought a pack and I could compete with other players even though I had some nasty stupid builds in my past. And I hardly had any problems. Except now with turrets **** of *******, **** them all.

3 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

I don't think so. As you said so yourself, it's a crafting game, not a buy&sell game. I started playing crossout because I could craft my own vehicle and use it in battle. We don't need the market to make this game work. It causes a needless double grind. "Craft, Ride, Destroy" is all we need. We don't need both the devs and the community to have their attention diverted from the actual gameplay by something else(the market).

If there would be no market, this game would die very fast. Market allows us to change our builds to find best weapons freely. It allows us to make money. And it teaches us how basic economy works. Educational aspect is very important here, kids can learn something about taxes, supply and demand and many other aspects.

Ironicaly, renting workbench (which is the subject of this thread) is the only reason you need to sell something to gain coins. Everything else can be obtained via playing. And if you really don't like market, leave it be. Fight for reducing this cost as low as possible. 0 is the target. Then you can easily craft, ride and destroy without using market once.

3 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

That's NOT what I meant by "healthy". I meant them not being greedy and actually loving their own game and always thinking about ways to improve it instead of making it P2W and trying to get more profit out of it. But you're right about one thing; We'll never find one.

Devs are workers. They intend to make a product that will give them paychecks. What they have done to Humpback and Steppie Spider is pretty obvious, they needed money. That was calculated move and is being slowly forgotten. It's their product, if you don't like it you don't have to play it. Stick to the rules or make your own.

But there is always a win-win situation in F2P games. It's cosmetics. Something that has no impact on balance. Paint cans and stickers for instance. Once added to the shop, there would be flow of money from players who want not only craft their rides, but pimp them to oblivion.

Counter Strike Global Offensive is not F2P. It costs some money. But everything you can buy in-game is cosmetics, nothing will grant you an advantage. And look how much money they made so far. It's like a golden river.

And please make some actual points about the market and possible solutions. You cannot just erase something so deeply fixed to core's game.

Edited by TheRedSkull10

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Weekly (or 2 weeks?) faction Quest to get free use of workbench in the faction!

There are 3 quests:

-> Easy quest for rare workbench

-> Normal quest for epic workbench

-> Hard quest for legendary workbench

Change the faction, takes 7 days (not 24 hours)

 

You also have to do quests for your faction, to get free use of workbench for the duration of time, up to the next faction quest rotation.

 

Example:

You are at Nomads.

Do the easy quest (win 6 easy raids or other) and you can use the workbench for free (rare workbench). If you DONT do the quest, you have to pay like yet, or the time to craft is 3x longer.

Finish the quest gives you access to the workbench and reduces the crafting time (normal like yet).

 

Every week (or 2 weeks), you have to do the quests again to get access too.

 

 

So you can change only each 7 days your faction, whould help the market to balance the prices. You need to know what faction you want to take for crafting. Or get other faction parts from the market.

 

Hope everyone can understand what i am talking about.

 

PM: If you are foul to make quests to get access, just pay for it with coins. No limitations of use, one pay every use (for one or 2 weeks).

 

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On 6/24/2017 at 5:44 AM, dukerustfield said:

I'm not sure why I understand the whole renting concept to begin with. Why is there a fee on top of just farming/buying the components?

to prevent hyperinflation

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These stingy devs are going to have to fix the pay to win aspect of this game soon or me and my group of friends will stop playing.

At first, we didn't mind buying into a pay to win. It was our first time buying into a pay to win- but we gave it a shot. We all spent OVER 30 USD which seemed more than fair.

And the game is fun. But as we progressed the pay to win aspect has put a bad taste in our mouths.

 

Here are some of the pay to win aspects that we were shocked to see:

- Pay to craft items --> What the xxxx? Really???

- Inventory limit --> What.... the.... xxxx..... This might have been the worst one

- Pay for more save spots --> What the xxxx? I already spent a fair amount on this game.

- Pay for more inventory slots --> Really guys?

- Limited amount of scrap, copper, ect reserves... --> TOO MANY REGULATIONS

- What else do I have to buy ... jesus

 

At this point we are all wishing we would have done more research on the game.

It's fun but the devs are ruining it with their stingy greedy attitudes. It's a shame really.

Edited by bobsixtenine

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On 9.1.2018 at 2:04 AM, kkang2828 said:

I don't think you understood my point. I never pay real money on F2P games. The point of my comment was that the MARKET IS RUINING THE GAME and should be done away with and replaced with a more traditional system.

In what way please is the market ruining the game?

 

On 10.1.2018 at 3:20 AM, kkang2828 said:

Did the market really work that way in the past? I wish that was the case now. But it isn't.

Market always works that way. You can make a lot of coins by simple waiting for obvious price chances. Like new season starts.. fuel prices will rise.

 

On 10.1.2018 at 3:20 AM, kkang2828 said:

This the problem for me. You need a certain amount of money to START trading and make progress. But because white parts and resources are so cheap, new players can't get enough money to start with unless they buy a pack(maybe this is intended?). 

White parts are indeed dirt cheap but ressources are not and make you good coins at basically zero time cost and risk.

 

On 10.1.2018 at 3:20 AM, kkang2828 said:

I don't think so. As you said so yourself, it's a crafting game, not a buy&sell game. I started playing crossout because I could craft my own vehicle and use it in battle. We don't need the market to make this game work. It causes a needless double grind. "Craft, Ride, Destroy" is all we need. We don't need both the devs and the community to have their attention diverted from the actual gameplay by something else(the market).

Huh? Obviously the market is a core concept of the game. It actually lessens the grind if you dont act like a fool.

I love the market because I really enjoy the added realism it brings to the game. Even after the apocalypse trade will always exist.

 

On 10.1.2018 at 6:48 AM, TheRedSkull10 said:

It allows us to make money. And it teaches us how basic economy works. Educational aspect is very important here, kids can learn something about taxes, supply and demand and many other aspects.

Also this. Economic illiteracy is a serious isse in the real world and anything that can make people and especially young people learn about it is a true benefit to all of humanity. Capitalism is a fact of life for most of the world population.. better learnt how it works and how to avoid its most serious issues in a game instead of real life.

 

On 18.3.2018 at 7:17 PM, bobsixtenine said:

These stingy devs are going to have to fix the pay to win aspect of this game soon or me and my group of friends will stop playing.

If you stop playing over this it will not be the devs fault but only your own fault for a complete lack of understanding about economics.

 

1. This game is not Pay To win. Especially not the market. whine about Scorpions instead who due to price tag go into this direction but not about a working market.

 

On 18.3.2018 at 7:17 PM, bobsixtenine said:

- Pay to craft items --> What the xxxx? Really???

- Inventory limit --> What.... the.... xxxx..... This might have been the worst one

- Pay for more save spots --> What the xxxx? I already spent a fair amount on this game.

- Pay for more inventory slots --> Really guys?

- Limited amount of scrap, copper, ect reserves... --> TOO MANY REGULATIONS

 

 - 1 Everbody has to pay to craft items... which ironically makes crafting MORE profitable because they is the need for prior investment. Remove the work bench fees and the moment something becomes profitable to craft you will face 10000000 people in brutal competition. Having to rent the work bench and having to have the correct active faction lessens competition and as such makes crafting more profitable.
 

2. I agree about the inventory limit

3. Agreed

4. Agreed

5. I begin to appreciate the ressource limits. Without people with a real life would make less coins because people without a life would ruin prices for ressources.

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I have mentioned it before, that the economy is not static.

Prices go down, while workbenches remain the same in cost.

For new players this is a big demotivational thing, hope they take all the above feedback serious.

 

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It's stupid that the PS4 and Xbox players have the same prices for workbenches as us, but everything else is worth much more coins so that the workbenches costs are not such a big deal as for us

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I love the market, it is a fantastic addition to the game. Work benches could use a small discount, but if they were made too cheap/free, then people would spam item-building, saturate the market and crash the prices.

 

In real life, crafting/building/making something isn't free. If you build just one thing, then sell it (factoring-in things like work hours, cost of materials, R&D etc), you almost-certainly won't make a profit. That's why manufacturing companies have to sell huge numbers of items, before they can turn a profit. The bench rental (although maybe a bit steep, as I mentioned), helps the Crossout market reflect this, quite well: Rent a bench (-25C), build your item, sell it for ~30C (minus tax), OK you haven't made any real profit... but you can now build 4 more items, for pure profit! The system works!! It's also a welcome change from the Tier-system, employed by most free to play games.

 

The market is great, it's like browsing/buying/selling on eBay, without the risk of destroying your own bank account! :DD

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Their game balance knowledge is on par with their greed. They would never see charging a monthly fee for free bench time and some useless experience earning bonus. I could go in depth on the fine details. They don't pay me enough care more then they do about their game's future.

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