WadeTheScrapper

Proof The Market System Is Broken

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I hear what your saying with the "Everyone having Tows and other purple class weapons" But honestly, Tow or no Tow. My double Judge is still gonna close to one tap you. Besides most of these players rush around and get blown up in two seconds just like Ai anyways. People can pay all they want to win, I don't mind. I'm still gonna kill all of them with my blue rarity weapons.

Although you bring up a great point! The economy is crashing and its crashing quick!

Need proof? https://crossoutdb.com/item/85 Go ahead and click all time. We are living in a depression according to these charts.

I'm fine with the game as it is atm. I don't mind having to work for stuff but lets be real here.. Why do i have to grind for 12 hours a day for two weeks for a single purple weapon? If i wanted to play WOW i would have gave Blizzard money. Id rather have everything be level locked instead of unobtainable. And ffs, Get the decorations out of the Rare loot crates, Are you kidding? 6 loot crates in a row. nothing but 5 cent items. I sell them to the next sorry soul instead of opening them and then just buy the part i want.

Edited by D0n3four
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Yeah the market is becoming a bit of an issue.  As it stands more and more items will be made and flood the market, driving prices down further and further.  I guess scrap price will become the ultimate driver of that i guess - and it has dropped a heap lately.  Maybe it will plateau out as the game churns through its players?

Dengar - The 'grind' is much less now than it was in the CBT due to the 400% bonus.  That never existed previously, so you had to grind much harder to get anywhere, i am enjoying getting 8-9k XP in a match where i kill 2 people (400% bonus plus bling items adding to XP gained).  So much faster now. 

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5 hours ago, Nano606 said:

Yeah the market is becoming a bit of an issue.  As it stands more and more items will be made and flood the market, driving prices down further and further.  I guess scrap price will become the ultimate driver of that i guess - and it has dropped a heap lately.  Maybe it will plateau out as the game churns through its players?

Dengar - The 'grind' is much less now than it was in the CBT due to the 400% bonus.  That never existed previously, so you had to grind much harder to get anywhere, i am enjoying getting 8-9k XP in a match where i kill 2 people (400% bonus plus bling items adding to XP gained).  So much faster now. 

on average I get 10-50 rep points per mission sometimes I get 1,000 like 1/20-30 matches seems funny to have solo rewards and no team rewards in a game that forces you to play in a team .....  Nothing gets me more angery than having your own team mates steal kills and make you get nothing for a reward... that's when I bail on the game no use staying around just to get 10 points lol

Edited by WadeTheScrapper

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The market is in complete chaos, I will grant you that. 

 

But as for the rest, I don't agree.

Pay to win is just not a thing in crossout currently; sure you can spend £80 and buy dual Hammerfalls, but now you are like 7-8k ps and competing with similar gear.  And skilled players will still steamroll you if your bad.

You can pay to progress faster (gear up faster) but you can't buy an advantage over someone who grinds the same gear you bought.

White gear is pretty competitive with blue gear. 4 chords will have a decent chance vs 2-3 vectors. Give a decent player a dual avenger build and they will destroy blue builds all day (not that it is hard to get some rares).

Every 14 hrs you get a blue crate, it gives a blue item (it didn't give you a white cannon).

5k ps vs 2.5 might happen RARELY, but a 5k build won't destroy a whole team at 2.5 solo; get real.

You will see pyres and all sorts at low ps... but they will have no armour at all, so if you get close they are dead.

Ultimately it sounds like you are a new player that is getting frustrated with some issues in the game. We all feel them, stick at it mate; but coming on the forum and exaggerating massively doesn't help the situation.

At lvl 10 you have a lot to learn (purple gear ain't all that, for starters). 

 

 

 

 

 

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I really think we need a secondary coin source for the market to be sustainable.

 

As long as only players who buy packs have fresh coins, those coins will loose 10 % on every transaction.

 

The market is basically starving due to lack of coins in the system. Hence, prices are in free fall.

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2 hours ago, jellymix said:

The market is in complete chaos, I will grant you that. 

 

But as for the rest, I don't agree.

Pay to win is just not a thing in crossout currently; sure you can spend £80 and buy dual Hammerfalls, but now you are like 7-8k ps and competing with similar gear.  And skilled players will still steamroll you if your bad.

You can pay to progress faster (gear up faster) but you can't buy an advantage over someone who grinds the same gear you bought.

White gear is pretty competitive with blue gear. 4 chords will have a decent chance vs 2-3 vectors. Give a decent player a dual avenger build and they will destroy blue builds all day (not that it is hard to get some rares).

Every 14 hrs you get a blue crate, it gives a blue item (it didn't give you a white cannon).

5k ps vs 2.5 might happen RARELY, but a 5k build won't destroy a whole team at 2.5 solo; get real.

You will see pyres and all sorts at low ps... but they will have no armour at all, so if you get close they are dead.

Ultimately it sounds like you are a new player that is getting frustrated with some issues in the game. We all feel them, stick at it mate; but coming on the forum and exaggerating massively doesn't help the situation.

At lvl 10 you have a lot to learn (purple gear ain't all that, for starters). 

 

 

 

 

 

Blue crates also give decorations for whatever reason. And seeing rng works against you in this game, I manage to get a 5 cent decoration, For six crates, for the last six weeks...

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You people are impatient idiots. Grind is not high in this game, I'm playing only a week and I'm already lvl17, mainly just from rested bonus! It should be much steeper or there should be many more levels! There should be no 400% rested bonus! 

Economy is fine, when the game will open on steam for everyone, more people will mean cheaper high end items. Stop crying about scrap being cheap. Start crafting your own stuff. You can make epic item in one week without buying anything for real money. But nooo, everybody wants everything fast and without any work.

Other games are much harder grind.

I think there are other issues that are much more important:

3min timer is not enough, 3:30 or 4minutes would help

1200xp cap should be removed and xp calculated differently, more focus on damage done, helping the base while it's being capped

different game modes, more maps

player profiles, not showing winrate or k/d, it just makes people play like pussies, being concerned more about their profile than having fun... but, we should be somehow able to "show off", maybe some medals system or whatever

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52 minutes ago, Erionax said:

You people are impatient idiots. Grind is not high in this game, I'm playing only a week and I'm already lvl17, mainly just from rested bonus! It should be much steeper or there should be many more levels! There should be no 400% rested bonus! 

Economy is fine, when the game will open on steam for everyone, more people will mean cheaper high end items. Stop crying about scrap being cheap. Start crafting your own stuff. You can make epic item in one week without buying anything for real money. But nooo, everybody wants everything fast and without any work.

Other games are much harder grind.

I think there are other issues that are much more important:

3min timer is not enough, 3:30 or 4minutes would help

1200xp cap should be removed and xp calculated differently, more focus on damage done, helping the base while it's being capped

different game modes, more maps

player profiles, not showing winrate or k/d, it just makes people play like pussies, being concerned more about their profile than having fun... but, we should be somehow able to "show off", maybe some medals system or whatever

Calls everyone idiots then proceeds to have a random rant about grind, in a thread about the market and p2w...

And you completely missed the point about the market. It's not fine, it's in free fall.

As in... everything is too cheap, and only getting cheaper; to the point that everything we gather/craft is worthless. Steam launch will make it worse.

Several people have explained all this above, did you read the thread? 

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30 minutes ago, jellymix said:

And you completely missed the point about the market. It's not fine, it's in free fall.

As in... everything is too cheap, and only getting cheaper; to the point that everything we gather/craft is worthless.

It doesn't matter. Because everything is too expensive. You can craft everything super fast, just by playing for couple of days, you can craft epic item. Why should have it so much value? Compared to other game with ingame auction, everything in Crossout is pointlessly super expensive.

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On 17.6.2017. at 11:44 PM, jellymix said:

Every 14 hrs you get a blue crate, it gives a blue item (it didn't give you a white cannon).

Once a week you get that mission^^

Totally agree on @TruckMcTruckface comment above.

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On 18.6.2017 at 0:04 AM, ARES_IV said:

I really think we need a secondary coin source for the market to be sustainable.

 

As long as only players who buy packs have fresh coins, those coins will loose 10 % on every transaction.

 

The market is basically starving due to lack of coins in the system. Hence, prices are in free fall.

I would suggest a system where the fee that the market takes is actually used to buy some low value stuff at a slightly higher price.

 

Just to stabilze the market like this:

The Market recognizes the price for fuel dropped from 5c to 3c. Now the market will buy fuel for 4c. Thus increasing the price slightly from 3c to maybe 3.5c.

 

Now the market will pay 4,5c until it finally gets close to its average price again. (Something like +-20% of the avergae value would be ignored)

 

Aside from that: If every player just sets the cost higher than we would slowly increase the price.

 

Why can't the market set a slightly higher price than lowest each time someone sells it? That way the average price would also rise as any additional offer will be slightly higher than the lowest one.

 

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Proof that the Threadopener does not understand the game and/or economics: See first post!

You took a snapshot of the current situation and based your entire thesis on it, but you neglected to account for various factors. You said prices of Scrap will go to 0,01 and so will everything else. That is not true because currently msot people are only producing rare and epic items. Only few people produce legendary and above. As soon as the majority has the means (coins and/or material, including epic items) to produce legendary stuff en masse, the demand for all resources, including scrap, will rise.

Sticking with scrap: A rare item takes 450 scrap metal to produce - easily farmed by a single player on one day. An epic item requires six times that plus 250, so 2950 scrap metal. Scrap metal farm limit for 7 days is 2800. If you take the dailys (200 scrap metal) into account and the season, it is still possible for one player to farm it. Legendary: 14.850 Scrap metal. Relict: 29.700 Scrap metal.

Demand will rise for all resources and so the price will adjust! But hey, nice "the end is nigh"-speech. For your information, in this game, the world has already ended!

And if you will argue: But at some point all user will have what they need, here are two more things: More people can always join. Things are upgradeable. As soon as you have everything, you might be thinking of upgrading stuff. By upgrading stuff you remove it from the market permanently (untradeable - wise choice btw).

 

As for Fuel (specifically at Dengar): The price of fuel is still lower than copper, meaning you get more copper by buying fuel and farming medium raids or invasions (the price difference here is justified too because you have to invest time to transform fuel into copper). The fuel nerf, as much as it pains me to say, was justified so that the copper prices doesn't fall too much, which would have had an effect on all products. I actually dont like the new fuel tank for that reason.

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Market is worse than broke, its on a free fall, like everyone says.

The prices are suffering an negative inflation (there aren't enough coins on the game) the problem isn't the taxes.

I think the only solution is give to the player base a way to get free coins through battles or something that isn't the market.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Obaum said:

The prices are suffering an negative inflation (there aren't enough coins on the game) the problem isn't the taxes.

I think the only solution is give to the player base a way to get free coins through battles or something that isn't the market.

Deflation wouldn't matter, really, if it only affected the market. But when you can't rent workbenches anymore, because you can't get coins, we'll really start to feel it.

I've been wondering if we're moving towards a crate-based economy, instead of a crafting-based one. Because the stuff you get from crates is actually totally free...

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On 6/17/2017 at 7:04 AM, D0n3four said:

I hear what your saying with the "Everyone having Tows and other purple class weapons" But honestly, Tow or no Tow. My double Judge is still gonna close to one tap you. Besides most of these players rush around and get blown up in two seconds just like Ai anyways. People can pay all they want to win, I don't mind. I'm still gonna kill all of them with my blue rarity weapons.

Although you bring up a great point! The economy is crashing and its crashing quick!

Need proof? https://crossoutdb.com/item/85 Go ahead and click all time. We are living in a depression according to these charts.

I'm fine with the game as it is atm. I don't mind having to work for stuff but lets be real here.. Why do i have to grind for 12 hours a day for two weeks for a single purple weapon? If i wanted to play WOW i would have gave Blizzard money. Id rather have everything be level locked instead of unobtainable. And ffs, Get the decorations out of the Rare loot crates, Are you kidding? 6 loot crates in a row. nothing but 5 cent items. I sell them to the next sorry soul instead of opening them and then just buy the part i want.

Quoting in case anyone missed it.  Click his link and select all on the chart.  This is not a healthy economy, It's a race to the bottom. 

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On 6/18/2017 at 9:30 PM, TruckMcTruckface said:

At the start of OBT i noticed a coin shop, that alone showed trouble was on its way. I told people that the market would crash since 10% market tax and the workbench cost eat coins from the circulation and the only way coins enter the market is through real paid packs, your average player never spends a dime, so where does the fresh influx of coins come from? I got called a fool, a lunatic, a doomsayer, fast forward over 2 weeks and look where are we at? Not even a month has passed and the apocalypse is already here. And no, just because some people can abuse the market by playing a ruthless businessman 24/7 , fighting over scraps, or simply making pennies by buying fuel and doing PvE, it doesn't feel fun, it doesn't feel rewarding. There's grind and then there's whatever you call this, even slavery rewarded people more. I have way too much time on my hands and even i say enough is enough, either they change something dramatically or the game will die. At this point, either you pay real money or simply quit the game because it's simply work by this point, unrewarding work at that, recent changes seem to be geared towards making you pay up real dosh in order to progress.

 

A question to all the GM's that chanted one mantra during the entire CBT. Remember how you told no matter how many packs you owned , you can never buy a legendary with all those coins? What happened to that i wonder? You can sure as hell fork over some real money for weapons now, funny how that turned out huh.

Excellent points.  Just to be clear, I'm not hating on the game.  I love it in fact.  But want to raise the alarm before it's too late.  Unless the developers are wanting to do a quick cash out, this needs addressed.  If they are wanting to do a quick cash out on the popularity of the game, then continue to march.

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The market itself is not so much the problem as what surrounds it as in saturation of items because you have no risk at all of losing them!

1.Items won ingame

2.Items bought.

3.Items crafted

The only loss of any items in this game is when you use them to craft/make other items but the ease to attain items is such that the market will become saturated with drops as well as crafted/built items no matter what you try..its natural evolution unless you counter this with some ways that items can be lost in a risk-reward system.

The simple fact is with saturation you get devaluation of items and it will only increase as the player base does and more players reach higher levels.

Make pvp risk and reward(possibly on the brawl servers).

Introduce boss drops on pve such as unique loot share items that might add up to a component.

Add more components to the crafting of items to avoid saturation.

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6 minutes ago, Aetrion said:

The second the game starts deleting my items is the second I stop buying coin. 

If thats aimed at my post i do not mention deleting once at all but more a case of risk v reward in pvp and pve and on the build side more basic items used for the origin of crafting.

With the current system your hard earned cash and the coins bought will remain the same but the items bought will always decrease unless the saturation is of said items is stopped or managed.

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I don't agree that we're seeing a price drop because the market is over-saturated. A huge number of players in the game are still trying to get their first purple weapon, the yellows are still in the thousands of coin, the orange weapons are not even for sale or listed at literally 60,000 coins. When we hit true saturation people are going to start fusing weapons too, that's going to take a ton of them out of circulation. Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of items won't be traded again once a player owns them, which effectively removes them from the market. Like, the mere existence of something like "use shotguns" as a daily for example ensures that even players who don't run shotguns on their main build will eventually want to own a set of purple ones. Leviathans also take a ton of weapons out of circulation which aren't used for anything other than arming a Levi. If they add new items and factions they will also always wipe out a lot of existing items. 

I don't think we've even remotely hit the point where you can talk about too many items in the game, because for the vast majority of people there are dozens of items they want that they can't afford right now. If we did hit a point where the game was so completely choke full of items that everyone just has everything I wouldn't advocate for implementing "risk", but simply implement a cleanup event like in the old Ultima Online days where you can get some kind of reward like a choice of awesome decorations for getting rid of a bunch of stuff.

They could also take the fusion system further to a point where fusing two fused items yields an item with two bonuses and so on, making it theoretically possible to create an weapon that's fused a half dozen times. Wouldn't be game breaking, especially if the power score keeps step, but you immediately eliminate a ton of items. 3 for the first fusion, then 9, 27, 81, 243, 729...  I think that would cure the problem pretty well for long term players.

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Lot of truth in what you say but dont forget a lot of items(lets use purples as an example) will have been bought or made and tried and tested and the word will have gotten about on how good or bad they are via chat or streams or youtubers hence you will always have "hot" items that will hold prices longer and "cold" items that will de-valuate very quickly and become unused.

My possible solutions presented are infact a way of future proofing the market and providing trends that players can look forward to as other means of getting items.

A simple question: would it be so bad to introduce loot share on pve based on market value of items dropped by killing a boss? Could pvp have servers(brawl) have dead player drops and a live player vault on a vehicle ie risk and reward.

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