WadeTheScrapper

Proof The Market System Is Broken

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46 minutes ago, Hazmat616 said:

This guy is an impatient baby

No just some one who lives in the real world and is looking for this game to be one that stays alive for a long period of time. Also one that can use complete thoughts with out insults to get his thoughts across. Also one who would like to see the developers make money, and still provide an enjoyable game experience for the end user. Also one who can stay congruent through his thought process. Just looking to limit the grind on the average person who wants to unwind...

Good day

Regards

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, redneck_fgf said:

how DID i KNOW YOU WOULD CHIME IN....

No they should and can make money, if you read the statement....or read anything that has been posted, you would see that your statement is flawed.

There is a way to benefit the developers and the players....did you understand that...like so many post before,( if you read them for content and not just to answer) in fact some stated that very well , that if the game’s systems – the market, the crafting benches, and yes even the Microtransactions were made affordable for the  players that can not afford the time away from their real life (sorry that is a cost, any recreation be it gaming or golfing, even done for pure enjoyment) could invest and become more competitive they would do it. It will not work until game makes make more equability environment for all. Those who can afford the time for the grind, like it sounds you are one, are the players the developers do not like. They would rather have a player who makes small microtransactions lets say $2-3 a week to those who will grind and sell and craft. They make no money off of that player, and they need to make money, that is not in question. But those who grind and craft the higher end stuff and place it on the market and sell it for extremely high coin value, hey because they invested time to get all of the stuff needed to make it, are a part problem. But that is an problem that could also be solved  if you craft it it becomes linked to you, not able to be sold. On the developers could place high end stuff on the market, you ether grind or put in $2-3 a week to get it. Only Scrap, copper, chips and lower end stuff you get for playing could be sold.

That would solve a bucket load of problems.Again go back and reread the post all of them, they are filled with useful information, and the developers need to step forward and address the problem with the market, and the system that drives and controls the market system.

oh ya your off-color statement that ended in " Overhead always eats your profits " overhead has always been a factor, all the back to the pharaoh and the cost of the pyramids and it will always be...and they are not burning it they are making more by removing coinage off the market via tax.

Read and research the factors of gaming economics, how to make them work more effectively for the longevity of the game.

Another good bit of reading for you

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/06/3-surprising-facts-about-the-gaming-industry-and-why-you-should-start-paying-attention/

The jest of all of this is, all of the post on this subject in fact are, we do not want it for free... we want them to make money and continue to make the game better and more developed.. did you get that, we want a game that we do not have to grind 30+hours and then craft, we would rather have a game were we could invest $2-5 a week and stay competitive and have fun. I race Iracing over the last 5 years I have invested $300-500 real world dollars in it and am glad I have, I would like to have this game look at the long game, not the hit and run game...

And before you come back with "They also spent almost 40k earned coins for a CHANCE at a tiny bonus. That isn't efficient or a game changer. Each tier has a smaller power gap then the one that precedes it. If you are a millionaire who is too lazy to play the game so you pay to reach an endgame with no goals left, go for it. You still won't have the experience or skill to even recognize how bad the high tier weapons are."

The developers would rather have a person invest $2-5 a week and in your terms "be lazy" ,we call it enjoyment, then earn 40K of coins...they don't make money that way and that's were are contradicting yourself, and the statements you made previous to your last.

So what is it ??

do we let the developers make $2-5 off a person week after week or do we want players who "spent almost 40k earned coins " and put forth no real world dollars...I can tell you what one the developers would pick

 

 

Did you write this drunk or just use google translate?

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9 minutes ago, ROACHOR said:

Did you write this drunk or just use google translate?

what don't you understand ???

Clearly state your points, can you ??

Did you read for content or for insult ??

help me understand,

Before you contradict  yourself again.. Should we grind and craft and play for free as you stated 1st or do we allow the developers to make money like you said here "they should have no revenue stream and it's servers will run on pixie dust and the devs will work for the thrill of reading forum comment"

what do you need translated???

What is it?? it seems when I state some thing that goes against your views you get Narkie...

 

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4 minutes ago, redneck_fgf said:

what don't you understand ???

Clearly state your points, can you ??

Did you read for content or for insult ??

help me understand,

Before you contradict  yourself again.. Should we grind and craft and play for free as you stated 1st or do we allow the developers to make money like you said here "they should have no revenue stream and it's servers will run on pixie dust and the devs will work for the thrill of reading forum comment"

what do you need translated???

What is it?? it seems when I state some thing that goes against your views you get Narkie...

 

Your illiterate train of thought wall of text is indecipherable. I hope English isn't your first language.

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Market is severely broken when basically every item sells for a pretty significant loss. This is why you see so many Icarus IV vs VIIs.

Why should anyone make an item if they can't profit from it? Even new items like the Icarus and spark. And this is made at a loss even before the cost of renting & tax.

Any any point, its always better to sell raw materials than items. There is no incentive to craft, at all.

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17 hours ago, rydis17405 said:

Market is severely broken when basically every item sells for a pretty significant loss. This is why you see so many Icarus IV vs VIIs.

Why should anyone make an item if they can't profit from it? Even new items like the Icarus and spark. And this is made at a loss even before the cost of renting & tax.

Any any point, its always better to sell raw materials than items. There is no incentive to craft, at all.

This is what I have been trying to understand

1) you get the stuff for free

2) you complain that you can make no profit from free stuff

3) crafting system put in place so any player can get anything for free in the game by just playing, your saying you are making no profit from

4) you think you should get paid to play a game (profit)

5) persons that want profit make goods on the goods they got for free.

So basically what you are saying is that, free stuff that I sell is selling to cheap. It is no longer profitable to take the free stuff and craft, basically for free (sell free stuff to rent work space to craft free stuff), so you can sell the free stuff at an inflated price.

That is what is wrong with the market......

It takes to long to grind to buy with the free stuff from players who make the stuff for free, hence why the developers need to interject goods into the market to lower the prices. hence making the grind time shorter. This would also make smaller interjections of real world cash more effective in the market.. Also the tax keeps the coinage at some value to prevent hyper inflation. 

 

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Was going to write out a essay, but ill just say the game lacks the mechanics and enough content to have a stable market.

 

Esp when the console versions market's are so abused by a exploit and not caught by Devs passed out drunk on vodka somewhere to catch it, to the point they might as well scrape or re-roll the platforms game completely as no new player could ever afford anything, and the game is in its death point.

Edited by Dont_Rush_It
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On 9/28/2017 at 8:56 PM, ROACHOR said:

Your illiterate train of thought wall of text is indecipherable. I hope English isn't your first language.

I read it just fine.. bte ay cnat rdea tish erithe?

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14 minutes ago, Dont_Rush_It said:

Was going to write out a essay, but ill just say the game lacks the mechanics and enough content to have a stable market.

 

Esp when the console versions market's are so abused by a exploit and not caught by Devs passed out drunk on vodka somewhere to catch it, to the point they might as well scrape or re-roll the platforms game completely as no new player could ever afford anything, and the game is in its death point.

I agree...It needs work, lots of work..Drones, market and other thing...it may be dead before it makes it out of BETA. So sad great game needs more looking after. 

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7 hours ago, redneck_fgf said:

This is what I have been trying to understand

1) you get the stuff for free

2) you complain that you can make no profit from free stuff

3) crafting system put in place so any player can get anything for free in the game by just playing, your saying you are making no profit from

4) you think you should get paid to play a game (profit)

5) persons that want profit make goods on the goods they got for free.

So basically what you are saying is that, free stuff that I sell is selling to cheap. It is no longer profitable to take the free stuff and craft, basically for free (sell free stuff to rent work space to craft free stuff), so you can sell the free stuff at an inflated price.

That is what is wrong with the market......

It takes to long to grind to buy with the free stuff from players who make the stuff for free, hence why the developers need to interject goods into the market to lower the prices. hence making the grind time shorter. This would also make smaller interjections of real world cash more effective in the market.. Also the tax keeps the coinage at some value to prevent hyper inflation. 

 

1. Nothing is free except the daily/weekly loot crates. Everything else is earned from playing/winning.

2. I did no such thing.

3.If that was truly the case, then there would be no need to lock crafting behind walls of faction levels. Also, this is still false. Coins can only be inserted into the game by players who buy them. Coin isn't generated from nothing. So the value of the coin is determined by how much of it is in circulation, and that is controlled by paying players. Because of the current system, it is NEVER better to craft an item than it is to sell raw materials. Most BLUE weapons sell for less than just the scrap cost it took to make them. Yes, that is broken. If you spend the time to level a faction, to craft weapons not everyone has access to because they chose different factions, you should be rewarded in that way. And that way is being able to craft weapons others want, and can't make, for some sort of profit. Otherwise, the whole system is completely pointless. Epics/legendaries take parts from other factions. Try leveling 2 factions to level 12. Its going to take you months before you could even craft an epic by your logic. And you will be doing so at a net loss. 

4.Never said that. This isn't Diablo 3 AH.

5. We have faction system for a reason. We have to pay Tax+Rent. You should be rewarded in some way with the effort of paying these costs, and in particular factions to supply people with weapons they dont have access too. Otherwise, why have a market system? What actual purpose does it have?

In fact, I said the free stuff you get is MORE profitable. I think you need to reread. Crafting is NEVER FREE. It costs to rent+tax. But that is my point. In the current state, a player should never craft. All materials are worth more than what they can craft. It is 100% always the correct choice to sell materials for coin than to craft for coin instead. That is definitely a broken system.

Hyper inflation will NEVER be an issue, because coins are only generated when someone buys them. They are not created from nothing. There is never a large influx by players, because they can't sell stuff to the game for coin that wasn't already in the game.

Edited by rydis17405
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36 minutes ago, rydis17405 said:

1. Nothing is free except the daily/weekly loot crates. Everything else is earned from playing/winning.

2. I did no such thing.

3.If that was truly the case, then there would be no need to lock crafting behind walls of faction levels. Also, this is still false. Coins can only be inserted into the game by players who buy them. Coin isn't generated from nothing. So the value of the coin is determined by how much of it is in circulation, and that is controlled by paying players. Because of the current system, it is NEVER better to craft an item than it is to sell raw materials. Most BLUE weapons sell for less than just the scrap cost it took to make them. Yes, that is broken. If you spend the time to level a faction, to craft weapons not everyone has access to because they chose different factions, you should be rewarded in that way. And that way is being able to craft weapons others want, and can't make, for some sort of profit. Otherwise, the whole system is completely pointless. Epics/legendaries take parts from other factions. Try leveling 2 factions to level 12. Its going to take you months before you could even craft an epic by your logic. And you will be doing so at a net loss. 

4.Never said that. This isn't Diablo 3 AH.

5. We have faction system for a reason. We have to pay Tax+Rent. You should be rewarded in some way with the effort of paying these costs, and in particular factions to supply people with weapons they dont have access too. Otherwise, why have a market system? What actual purpose does it have?

In fact, I said the free stuff you get is MORE profitable. I think you need to reread. Crafting is NEVER FREE. It costs to rent+tax. But that is my point. In the current state, a player should never craft. All materials are worth more than what they can craft. It is 100% always the correct choice to sell materials for coin than to craft for coin instead. That is definitely a broken system.

Hyper inflation will NEVER be an issue, because coins are only generated when someone buys them. They are not created from nothing. There is never a large influx by players, because they can't sell stuff to the game for coin that wasn't already in the game.

1) what is the cost of playing ? what is the cost of wining ? just your time 

2) ya you did , free play in turn gets free goods, selling gives you free in game coinage..take free goods and sell them to pay Tax+Rent.

3) "You should be rewarded in some way with the effort of paying these costs" you get free stuff for playing a free game.. play a match(win or loose you get scrap YOU DID NOT PAY FOR) you sell the scrap, that you did not pay for, to some one with coinage. Regardless how that coinage got there you did nothing but play a game..you were going to do that anyway... its like a DLC...

4) "We have faction system for a reason" correct.. and you can join for FREE and change every 24 hours for . oh ya. FREE..the scrap you get can be sold to pay the costs to rent work space...

so bottom line free game, gives you free stuff for just playing...you sell stuff to get coinage to buy more stuff..and sell stuff to rent stuff..there is coinage in the system so to state " basically every item sells for a pretty significant loss " is wrong..free goods to make free product,, made on a workbench that you sell free product to get coinage to rent, and tax you pay with coinage you got doing all of this for free...

Coinage got in the system..if you put no real world cash into system ..just sell free stuff to get said coinage,,, who cares how it got there IT COST YOU NOTHING

where is the "pretty significant loss " ??

if you can take the free goods and sell them for coinage that you did not put real money to make,,,than it cost to take free stuff and make the goods..then play get free stuff,, sell free stuff..buy stuff

 

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23 minutes ago, redneck_fgf said:

1) what is the cost of playing ? what is the cost of wining ? just your time 

2) ya you did , free play in turn gets free goods, selling gives you free in game coinage..take free goods and sell them to pay Tax+Rent.

3) "You should be rewarded in some way with the effort of paying these costs" you get free stuff for playing a free game.. play a match(win or loose you get scrap YOU DID NOT PAY FOR) you sell the scrap, that you did not pay for, to some one with coinage. Regardless how that coinage got there you did nothing but play a game..you were going to do that anyway... its like a DLC...

4) "We have faction system for a reason" correct.. and you can join for FREE and change every 24 hours for . oh ya. FREE..the scrap you get can be sold to pay the costs to rent work space...

so bottom line free game, gives you free stuff for just playing...you sell stuff to get coinage to buy more stuff..and sell stuff to rent stuff..there is coinage in the system so to state " basically every item sells for a pretty significant loss " is wrong..free goods to make free product,, made on a workbench that you sell free product to get coinage to rent, and tax you pay with coinage you got doing all of this for free...

Coinage got in the system..if you put no real world cash into system ..just sell free stuff to get said coinage,,, who cares how it got there IT COST YOU NOTHING

where is the "pretty significant loss " ??

if you can take the free goods and sell them for coinage that you did not put real money to make,,,than it cost to take free stuff and make the goods..then play get free stuff,, sell free stuff..buy stuff

 

1. Yes, your time is a cost. You are putting effort into the game. You are putting effort into winning. You are chosing to spend your time on this game over other games. That is a cost.  Not only that, you have to choose the method of game play, and pick and choose what you want to try and win. Those are costs. Its called an opportunity cost.

2. You are missing the point. There is no reason to sell your winnings to pay for Tax+Rent because you will LOSE more than what you make. You are better of never crafting. Just selling and buying. That is a broken system.

3.I dont think you understand markets and economics even at the most basic level. Nothing in the game is free. Yes, its free to play, but everything in the game has a cost, even if its time. Whether you spend that time farming wires, fuel or electronics. You have to pick and choose. You have to put effort into winning and gaining points. You have to spend your time farming it. We paid for it with winning/time spent. It is nothing like DLC, thats just laughable.

4. Yes you can, and you have to pick and choose what you level. Meaning what you craft is locked behind your faction level. You do not have access to other factions parts a majority of your playtime, simply because of this feature. Why have a faction system that limits your part creation if it serves no real purpose? The reason items take cross faction items to craft is to facilitate crafting and selling items to buy the items you need, otherwise crafting is an overall pointless system in the game. In the current system why would you ever rent and pay tax? You earn more just by selling it raw, and buying the item you want. Crafting becomes pointless and useless feature. It is never the correct path.

It does matter how the coins got there, because the value of crafted items is directly tied to coins because of Tax/Rent. Won item, very little. And the value of the coin is based on how much is in circulation. Which is controlled by players who bought it. So yes, IT DOES MATTER. Because those changing values determine the value of crafted items, because RENT/TAX are only paid by these coins.

Selling raw materials is worth more than crafting an item of the same materials. Thus, you take a loss crafting vs selling/buying. That is the loss.

If you still can't comprehend that, than im not going to bother debating it with you. You clearly dont understand. And thats ok.

Edited by rydis17405
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1 hour ago, rydis17405 said:

1. Yes, your time is a cost. You are putting effort into the game. You are putting effort into winning. You are chosing to spend your time on this game over other games. That is a cost.  Not only that, you have to choose the method of game play, and pick and choose what you want to try and win. Those are costs. Its called an opportunity cost.

2. You are missing the point. There is no reason to sell your winnings to pay for Tax+Rent because you will LOSE more than what you make. You are better of never crafting. Just selling and buying. That is a broken system.

3.I dont think you understand markets and economics even at the most basic level. Nothing in the game is free. Yes, its free to play, but everything in the game has a cost, even if its time. Whether you spend that time farming wires, fuel or electronics. You have to pick and choose. You have to put effort into winning and gaining points. You have to spend your time farming it. We paid for it with winning/time spent. It is nothing like DLC, thats just laughable.

4. Yes you can, and you have to pick and choose what you level. Meaning what you craft is locked behind your faction level. You do not have access to other factions parts a majority of your playtime, simply because of this feature. Why have a faction system that limits your part creation if it serves no real purpose? The reason items take cross faction items to craft is to facilitate crafting and selling items to buy the items you need, otherwise crafting is an overall pointless system in the game. In the current system why would you ever rent and pay tax? You earn more just by selling it raw, and buying the item you want. Crafting becomes pointless and useless feature. It is never the correct path.

It does matter how the coins got there, because the value of crafted items is directly tied to coins because of Tax/Rent. Won item, very little. And the value of the coin is based on how much is in circulation. Which is controlled by players who bought it. So yes, IT DOES MATTER. Because those changing values determine the value of crafted items, because RENT/TAX are only paid by these coins.

Selling raw materials is worth more than crafting an item of the same materials. Thus, you take a loss crafting vs selling/buying. That is the loss.

If you still can't comprehend that, than im not going to bother debating it with you. You clearly dont understand. And thats ok.

1) you choose to play a game be it this one or another..effort negated....play another where you pay upfront real world cash and receive all of the game parts, or you unlock Achievement in a game, sorta like getting free stuff to earn toward that Achievement goal...the days of skyrim and the crafting there,,,,what cost I put in that....oh ya I did it to relax and it was part of the game..unlike Unlike Iracing, that I also play..every thing there needs interjection of real world cash

2) "choosing to spend your time on this game over other games" and those other games I bet you payed for....i.e. COD . or alike..the 139 games in my steam acct

3) MBA, cost is just time..again negate that cost by interjecting real world cash,,,sorta like a cheat code, get what you want with out effort behind the reward.."You have to put effort into winning and gaining points. You have to spend your time farming it. We paid for it with winning/time spent." WELL INTERJECT REAL WORLD CASH, JUST LIKE BUYING A DLC, see hows it the same...and advance..just like project cars..want some cars..buy cars...they don't give an option to play and earn them.

Back to my main point many moons ago..

all content should be sold by developers and you don't want it, sold back to the store at a slight loss, sorta like skyrim, also still get scrap etc for free to craft, and keep the stuff you craft....

You clearly dont understand....it needs to be regulated so that it can be entered into at a low time/ real word cash basis....

 

 

 

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Wow! All the negative comments, if you do not like the game stop playing it. The market it player driven. I use the market all the time. I have to wait for some of the prices to go back up before I sell an epic item. Legionary items are supper high, but with a patience I will be able to craft my own. Fast leveling kills any game. Getting Max level in a week kills the fun.

To the player that commented about the lower level builds against a high level build. Look at it this way, raiders -vs-Stephen wolfs. Fast cars with shot guns with only 300 structure points-vs- a tank with 2000 's structure points with a cannon that dose 300plus points of damage. Without the cannon they just a pile of scrap. I like playing with the lower level builds makes it fun when I take out a high level build. 

Get a good team and play your faction. Keep the game fun.

To the player that quits if they are losing, play to the end, rewards are given for your contribution in the fight. I have won matches when only one of my teammates was left against 5 oponentes. Capture the enemy base stop complaining about how bad you suck at this game. 

 

Edited by Gorgonryan2017
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In general I love this game. Construction and the market are two super-designed ideas. The prices of certain items, such as wires or scrap metal, vary, so the grind itself varies. There is no premium time, so the game is completely free. I stopped playing WoT only for that reason.  There is a section that offers to skip the grind for money,  which is completely legitimate.

The problem is, as it seems to me, that people who pay for certain exemptions wants to feel like gods in the game.  But, as always and everywhere, there are gods above gods. :p

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On 10/2/2017 at 5:48 AM, rydis17405 said:

Market is severely broken when basically every item sells for a pretty significant loss. This is why you see so many Icarus IV vs VIIs.

Why should anyone make an item if they can't profit from it? Even new items like the Icarus and spark. And this is made at a loss even before the cost of renting & tax.

Any any point, its always better to sell raw materials than items. There is no incentive to craft, at all.

The first rule of being a shop-keep is don't sell items at a loss. So just don't do that.

You might make an item you want to use....

I mostly agree, little incentive for crafting, I also usually just sell scrap or day-trade where the margin is bigger than tax

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3 hours ago, Captaindontshoot said:

Fellow players, what is happening?

1.png

What do you mean?

- if you're talking about the 109+Cr Sell offers it looks like someone has stuck some speculative offers well above the norm, or they've been sitting there for months and a gradual depletion of the lower offers has revealed them.

 

You'll find a lot of items have some very high Sell and very low Buy bids placed either speculatively or as blocks/end-stops against Market movements.  These are only revealed when the more "normal" offers are depleted.

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3 hours ago, Pickle_CO said:

What do you mean?

- if you're talking about the 109+Cr Sell offers it looks like someone has stuck some speculative offers well above the norm, or they've been sitting there for months and a gradual depletion of the lower offers has revealed them.

 

You'll find a lot of items have some very high Sell and very low Buy bids placed either speculatively or as blocks/end-stops against Market movements.  These are only revealed when the more "normal" offers are depleted.

You may not have not not a detail, scrap metals and wires plummeted at a specific time. I saw anomalies 2 months ago in the market.
This same price and quantity do you think is the telepathy between player and player?

This happened two months ago, but now there is only an explosive growth in the number of weekends. As I see the fall in the prices of commodities, I understand that a group of rats are stealing scrap metal and wires.

Now they are either extinct or waiting for an opportunity to stop you from noticing any anomalies.

11.png

12.png

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1 hour ago, Captaindontshoot said:

You may not have not not a detail, scrap metals and wires plummeted at a specific time. I saw anomalies 2 months ago in the market.
This same price and quantity do you think is the telepathy between player and player?

No, I suspect it's the same player with Offers at slightly different prices.  Or different players that put similar offers at a time when that range of prices was normal.

 

1 hour ago, Captaindontshoot said:

This happened two months ago, but now there is only an explosive growth in the number of weekends. As I see the fall in the prices of commodities, I understand that a group of rats are stealing scrap metal and wires.

Now they are either extinct or waiting for an opportunity to stop you from noticing any anomalies.

Resource prices fluctuate according to demand and supply, the recent New Year event saw prices rise and they have now started dropping back again.  The Halloween event saw a similar pattern.

The Market prices have also been affected by the 50% pack discounts which have made in-game Credits worth less than they were before.

Edited by Guest

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buy low, sell high. Get 10,000 coins or 15,000 coins after successful sales
Illegal trading of players and players.
Account funds transfer

12.png

Edited by Captaindontshoot
Fonts too large

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57 minutes ago, Captaindontshoot said:

If these 4 Relic containers were sold successfully, after deducting the tax rate of 10% the coins obtained are 15000 and 10000
Now, is there a coin deal between player and player?
I do not know, such a huge trading process, whether the market allows a successful transaction, the sale of goods so that one of the parties to obtain coins? Or the price of goods is slightly lower, and if it can allow successful transactions?

I'm sorry, but it's very hard to follow what you're trying to say.  The words make no sense.

Would it be easier if you wrote in your native language and we use our own translations?

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10 hours ago, Pickle_CO said:

I'm sorry, but it's very hard to follow what you're trying to say.  The words make no sense.

Would it be easier if you wrote in your native language and we use our own translations?

Market loopholes

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On 2017. 6. 17. at 8:55 PM, Dengar_ said:

FUEL what the fudgers happened to fuel? before in OBT it was the easiest way to earn hard cash without having to spend years on selling radios... before you got 25 fuel in a battle, now only 5 fuel? Crossout just broke its femur right there, its limping!

RAIDS Raids now are very difficult compared to before, Though there easy for me (4000 ps) on easy mode, but for a newer player, I could probaly see them just exploding at there screen, I mean really, There to tough m8! Crossout just broke its tow.

EXP The expierence climb is now so dreadfully high that it makes me puke! Before in CBT you could join a faction at level 5, now it is level 10, and I remind you, the EXP climb is SO, FLIPPIN,HARD, Now im not being impatient, but Crossout is requiring just simply to much for newer players, new players dont wanna devote 5 hours to a game there not sure they like, but tojoina faction and actually get useful parts, they have to! Crossout is now crawling, and its legs are crushed...

and the only ways to actually climb the ladder of this game will take either 50 dollars (real), or will take 50 years, 

 

On 2017. 6. 17. at 9:04 PM, D0n3four said:

I don't mind having to work for stuff but lets be real here.. Why do i have to grind for 12 hours a day for two weeks for a single purple weapon?

 

On 2017. 6. 19. at 11:30 AM, TruckMcTruckface said:

I told people that the market would crash since 10% market tax and the workbench cost eat coins from the circulation and the only way coins enter the market is through real paid packs, your average player never spends a dime, so where does the fresh influx of coins come from? And no, just because some people can abuse the market by playing a ruthless businessman 24/7 , fighting over scraps, or simply making pennies by buying fuel and doing PvE, it doesn't feel fun, it doesn't feel rewarding. There's grind and then there's whatever you call this, even slavery rewarded people more. I have way too much time on my hands and even i say enough is enough, either they change something dramatically or the game will die. At this point, either you pay real money or simply quit the game because it's simply work by this point, unrewarding work at that, recent changes seem to be geared towards making you pay up real dosh in order to progress.

 

On 2017. 7. 7. at 8:10 AM, SuperGnu said:

So forced to buy Coins for real money or be stuck with white weapons/the stuff you managed to craft before the (negative)inflation? Becuse you will strugle reall hard to get a workbench going if it keeps dropping.

 

On 2017. 7. 25. at 11:53 AM, *THEGAY-KLINGON said:

market system is flawed but whats worse is the XP grind its taking way to long to rank up 

 

On 2017. 9. 27. at 12:22 AM, redneck_fgf said:

Ok, lets buy lets say lots of coins...Buy a reaper, a combine harvester, new telsa, cabin...and the list goes on.....but none of these "offer a serious advantage. " True "Grinding can get you anything in the game," but then there is the time involved. If I was not retired I would probably only spend 2-3 hours a week in game..do the math how long at that level would "anything in the game" take ?? lets be real for the average player who can only spend 2-3 hours a week in game and wants to WIN and needs to WIN..you shell out cash. I am sure you are "smart enough to figure out" that some one who just started and has all high end stuff is "paying to win" or just maybe the crate they get every 2 hours at the start of every day is fill with 30000 coins ???? Or maybe they Grind in there sleep ???

Ok let’s look at the numbers:

47 percent of gamers are between 18 and 49 years old.  The average guy who plays games is 35.

Normally they work 40-50 hours a week, have at least a few responsibility's and maybe a family.  " Grinding can get you anything in the game" would take this person weeks to work up to simple level items. There is not enough time in one week to do it. Also you normally want to win every once in a while, hey why not. With the current state of the game that is not likely.

Hey I could go on and on, used to compose 20 page answers to silly responses in the real world, but if you look at the REAL numbers for the average person, read the form and look at the study's conducted over the last few years on microtransaction prices and the effects they have lone term on on-line gaming. I could give you some real good psychological reasons people need to win at video games if you have the time..But a good start to understanding the full depth of the problem start with Richard Ryan and Edward Deci’s Self Determination Theory or even better read Nick Yee .. He is studying the framework for studying motivations that compels us to play. But I will sum up their study's for ya,, they all found that we look for " the enjoyment and relaxation gained from gaming, having no constraints in games like in one may have in real life, the artistry of the game, and the interactivity and competitiveness of a game. "    

 

On 2017. 9. 29. at 2:03 AM, redneck_fgf said:

This is the best review that explains why the market is "broken"

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/09/19/crossout-review-early-access/

" the grind for improvement becomes noticeably unpleasant. And look, who’s that coming over the dusty horizon? Why, it’s Unpleasant Grind’s best friend, Microtransactions. "

" What’s worse, all the game’s systems – the market, the crafting benches, the editor – form a kind of mechanical cartel which reinforces a dull grind, only avoidable by investing a sickening sum of real money for some fake coins. While this might be forgivable in a free-to-play game like World of Tanks, it is repugnant "

" you can just buy the thing you want on the same player-run market. But you’ll need those in-game credits again. The most expensive cannon in the game currently costs 22000 credits. If you were to buy these credits from the game’s store, rather than slowly (very slowly) accumulating them through selling item after item, it would cost you $294. I haven’t even mentioned ‘fuel’ or ‘coupons’ or ‘fusion’ yet (I won’t). "

" that would benefit the player, not the microtransaction gods. I cannot emphasise enough how much of a shame this is, because the actual game buried underneath all this nightmarish grind-goop is excellent. "

I know we will get the reaction., you can get anything with the grind and earn it... but like 99% of the reviews and the largest amount of player reviews state.. " the grind for improvement becomes noticeably unpleasant." and you need to invest "investing a sickening sum of real money "

this is the real reason the market is "busted" and will never be fixed...and why 3 different MMO review sites went from "large" to " Playerbase: Medium "

Again great game mired in a sea of Microtransactions.......it could be easily changed to benefit every one , uh there's the rub..."that would benefit the player, not the microtransaction gods".

 

On 2017. 10. 3. at 10:23 PM, rydis17405 said:

1. Nothing is free except the daily/weekly loot crates. Everything else is earned from playing/winning.

Coins can only be inserted into the game by players who buy them. Coin isn't generated from nothing. So the value of the coin is determined by how much of it is in circulation, and that is controlled by paying players.

In fact, I said the free stuff you get is MORE profitable. I think you need to reread. Crafting is NEVER FREE. It costs to rent+tax.

True, true, true. The needlessly ridiculous and unrewarding grind+microtransactions are ruining Crossout and many other F2P games out there that are great in their base concept. Companies need to realize that these kinds of dirty actions will actually get them LESS money then healthy actions that actually improve the game. If they don't, imho we'll be having another "Atari Shock" of F2P games sooner or later. 

" the enjoyment and relaxation gained from gaming, having no constraints in games like in one may have in real life, the artistry of the game, and the interactivity and competitiveness of a game. "

EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Games are entertainment, not jobs. We shouldn't be forced to boringly grind(yes, grinding exists IRL) for years to get what we want while the rich and the lucky sit around playing with amounts of money we can only dream of and get everything they want. That kind of misery should be reserved for real life. 

On 2017. 10. 3. at 3:22 PM, redneck_fgf said:

This is what I have been trying to understand

1) you get the stuff for free

2) you complain that you can make no profit from free stuff

3) crafting system put in place so any player can get anything for free in the game by just playing, your saying you are making no profit from

4) you think you should get paid to play a game (profit)

5) persons that want profit make goods on the goods they got for free.

So basically what you are saying is that, free stuff that I sell is selling to cheap. It is no longer profitable to take the free stuff and craft, basically for free (sell free stuff to rent work space to craft free stuff), so you can sell the free stuff at an inflated price.

That is what is wrong with the market......

It takes to long to grind to buy with the free stuff from players who make the stuff for free, hence why the developers need to interject goods into the market to lower the prices. hence making the grind time shorter. This would also make smaller interjections of real world cash more effective in the market.. Also the tax keeps the coinage at some value to prevent hyper inflation. 

 

 

On 2017. 10. 3. at 11:20 PM, redneck_fgf said:

1) what is the cost of playing ? what is the cost of wining ? just your time 

2) ya you did , free play in turn gets free goods, selling gives you free in game coinage..take free goods and sell them to pay Tax+Rent.

3) "You should be rewarded in some way with the effort of paying these costs" you get free stuff for playing a free game.. play a match(win or loose you get scrap YOU DID NOT PAY FOR) you sell the scrap, that you did not pay for, to some one with coinage. Regardless how that coinage got there you did nothing but play a game..you were going to do that anyway... its like a DLC...

4) "We have faction system for a reason" correct.. and you can join for FREE and change every 24 hours for . oh ya. FREE..the scrap you get can be sold to pay the costs to rent work space...

so bottom line free game, gives you free stuff for just playing...you sell stuff to get coinage to buy more stuff..and sell stuff to rent stuff..there is coinage in the system so to state " basically every item sells for a pretty significant loss " is wrong..free goods to make free product,, made on a workbench that you sell free product to get coinage to rent, and tax you pay with coinage you got doing all of this for free...

Coinage got in the system..if you put no real world cash into system ..just sell free stuff to get said coinage,,, who cares how it got there IT COST YOU NOTHING

where is the "pretty significant loss " ??

if you can take the free goods and sell them for coinage that you did not put real money to make,,,than it cost to take free stuff and make the goods..then play get free stuff,, sell free stuff..buy stuff

 

redneck_fgf, are you two-faced or what? One moment, you talk completely sensible things like:

"However, Crossout is taking this concept and turning it into pure evil." 

"but then there is the time involved. If I was not retired I would probably only spend 2-3 hours a week in game..do the math how long at that level would "anything in the game" take ?? lets be real for the average player who can only spend 2-3 hours a week in game" 

"47 percent of gamers are between 18 and 49 years old. The average guy who plays games is 35. Normally they work 40-50 hours a week, have at least a few responsibility's and maybe a family. It would take this person weeks to work up to simple level items. There is not enough time in one week to do it. Also you normally want to win every once in a while, hey why not. With the current state of the game that is not likely." 

"a product 'cost' time/time in the real world is in short supply for the normal person." 

"Read how much youth between 16-20 spend on on-line content a year..it is mind blowing"

"Again great game mired in a sea of Microtransactions.......it could be easily changed to benefit every one"

"I agree...It needs work, lots of work..Drones, market and other thing...it may be dead before it makes it out of BETA. So sad great game needs more looking after. "

"It takes too long to grind to buy with the free stuff from players who make the stuff for free, hence why the developers need to interject goods into the market to lower the prices. hence making the grind time shorter."

 

THEN you talk nonsense like:

"you get the stuff for free"

"free stuff"

"any player can get anything for free in the game by just playing"

"goods they got for free."

"basically for free (sell free stuff to rent work space to craft free stuff)"

"what is the cost of playing ? what is the cost of wining ? just your time "

"free play in turn gets free goods, selling gives you free in game coinage..take free goods and sell them to pay Tax+Rent."

"you get free stuff for playing a free game.. play a match(win or loose you get scrap YOU DID NOT PAY FOR) you sell the scrap, that you did not pay for, to some one with coinage. Regardless how that coinage got there you did nothing but play a game..you were going to do that anyway"

"you can join for FREE and change every 24 hours for . oh ya. FREE..the scrap you get can be sold to pay the costs to rent work space... so bottom line free game, gives you free stuff for just playing...you sell stuff to get coinage to buy more stuff..and sell stuff to rent stuff"

"free goods to make free product,, made on a workbench that you sell free product to get coinage to rent, and tax you pay with coinage you got doing all of this for free..."

"if you put no real world cash into system ..just sell free stuff to get said coinage,,, who cares how it got there IT COST YOU NOTHING"

"if you can take the free goods and sell them for coinage that you did not put real money to make,,,than it cost to take free stuff and make the goods..then play get free stuff,, sell free stuff..buy stuff"

 

Do you realize that your comments are at COMPLETE odds with each other? Time=money is the second most widely known equation in the modern world(after E=mc2). Lets say you spent the last 2 years grinding in Crossout and finally got your first legendary part. Would YOU say it's FREE?

You somehow seem to be transfixed to the idea that we should willingly pay money(even if it's 2~3 bucks a week) in a FREE to play game. If that's true, then you're nothing but a pet of the microtransaction god and a dirty pay-to-winner. What you're saying is not an improvement of the current situation.

On 2017. 6. 18. at 4:25 AM, WadeTheScrapper said:

on average I get 10-50 rep points per mission sometimes I get 1,000 like 1/20-30 matches seems funny to have solo rewards and no team rewards in a game that forces you to play in a team .....  Nothing gets me more angery than having your own team mates steal kills and make you get nothing for a reward... that's when I bail on the game no use staying around just to get 10 points lol

 

Right. We need a more damage and teamwork-based reward system rather then the current kill-based one. That would help lessen the grind.

Also, I fully agree that the 10% tax needs to be returned to the market. But a fully battle-based reward system would benefit the rich and experienced more then the poor starters. Maybe giving starters a small amount of coins to start trading with would work?

Edited by kkang2828

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Crossout is not F2P and fun 2 play. 2 month player. Cannot find anything to sell for coin to buy bench time. No bench time is no advancing to have gear to compete. Not going to be another low PS droner trying to earn scrap and fuel to sell that could be used training drivers and doing missions. About to max the nomad faction and yet to make all the gear I need from it let alone even think about starting another. Two drivers not finished. The last skill has insane cost for last skill.

 
I get on Crossout now from playing WOT. Just to know it there is worse then WOT for all around play possible.

 

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