Mortidon

Workbench rent mechanic is killing the game

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On 6/23/2017 at 8:57 AM, Mortidon said:

So here is the thing; the workbench rent thing is the bane of this game, it halts game progress for new players (such as me) almost immediately after they reach 2K P.S. unless they: a) grind for coins or b) buy coins. It is slowly killing the market by siphoning money from the market into the digital abyss (literally!). It is there for no reason but to provide nothing but a hindrance for any one new. 

I understand that money MUST be generated as well as paychecks needs to flow, however this isn't the way for it.

I suggest that the rent mechanic for coins to be removed OR replaced with another resource (fuel, scrap or copper) and balance the crafting times for items accordingly (make it 6 hours for a rare part for all i care). this way game progress is open for new players, market coins will not simply "disappear" and will continue longer in circulation, more stuff will be crafted and injected into the market creating a steady flow of crafted goods from loyal fans playing the game. This in turn will make players buy coin packs in order to get stuff on the market faster and in turn provide a steady rate of profit.

This, however, must be done AFTER an extremely engaging and fun end game content that everyone will be pushing for is added to the game to create a demand for all those extra items injected in game.

Finally i would to thank the devs for this game, i couldn't think i could have this much fun in f2p game and i would absolutely be devastated to see this gem of a game, with all of its potential (airplanes and helicopters one day, maybe?) turn into a dead game with no one to play it.

The problem isn't the cost of the workbench, but rather the current state of the market. Common quality items used to sell for 3-5 coins each. So you did a few matches, sold a few chords and had money to craft 5 items. Because common items are too common they are worthless in price and this simple reason is why new players have no money and cannot afford benches.

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An alternate solution could be daily or weekly challenges that reward small amounts of coins for completing them, even if it's as low as 1 coin per completed daily challenge. It might not be as quick as purchasing a bunch of coins with real-world money, or even selling materials at the market, but I believe that it'll help to curb the deflationary spiral that's currently plaguing the game.

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1.) Use the given white guns or avengers that both work suprisingly well at most stages and strap a fuel barrel around your waist. 2.) Make some higher level friends( notice good guns in low ps) 3.) Stay in touch with high level friends until you are able to grind up to about 3-4K PS (very easy if active daily) 4.) Farm Leviathan and make new friends with stronger people 5.) Use them like the greedy little gold ******* we all are and sell the copper they farm for you with you :D

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The game makers need money, and this is the fairest way.  If you want to full free, then do a couple of normal level mission chains, or an easy one.  Crates will give blues.  Sell first blue and workbence never a problem again.

Cost of workbench will not kill the game.  People not putting money into it will

Edited by Vaporisor
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It's not as big of a problem as you think. You get a blue crate every 14 hours per week, where even the worst blue item gives you some coins when you sell it. You can also earn fuel, scrap and some copper which also could be sold and then the bench can be rented that way. You can make several builds out of white parts so you always have one ready to complete the daily challenge and get more scrap. 

I have been playing for a month and I got over 1000 coins. After I realized that I can earn everything in the game I bought one of the pre-built cars (which don't have anything special (just different names and shapes for the same items with the same stats)).

 

Sorry, but the workbench cost (I think) is needed to encourage people to at least participate in the market, the more people participate - the better the prices I imagine. The blue items cost fine but the purples and oranges are way too expensive.

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20 hours ago, ShadowWolfTJC said:

An alternate solution could be daily or weekly challenges that reward small amounts of coins for completing them, even if it's as low as 1 coin per completed daily challenge. It might not be as quick as purchasing a bunch of coins with real-world money, or even selling materials at the market, but I believe that it'll help to curb the deflationary spiral that's currently plaguing the game.

That's already how it is! Just sell some scrap you earn.

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The issue is the fact that it only for X amount of uses that you have to buy that again.  I get its a game fueled by micro transactions. When the seasons challenges requires stuff from every faction to complete to get one blue crate is pretty bad.  Because that right there is 100.00 coins some one starting out doesn't understand the market and 2 its not forces people to open their wallet to be competitive which turns this into a Pay to win. I have no problem paying money to developers of games that are free to play as long as I don't feel its a Pay to win.  Having to pay coins to craft forces it into that pay to win area in my opinion.  Especially it limited on what you can make due to the limit on scrap you can earn per week.  2800 scrap a week will allow at the most  6 blue items to be crafted so you already have a limit there which stops markets from getting flooded. I say remove the cost of renting the benches or make it a one time fee.  

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I once disagreed with another player talking about this. But now after realising that I have to farm, create and sell 3 blues just to rent a purple bench for 5 items, is beyond ridiculous. I can sell one purple for a Legendary bench if I remember rightly.

 

One guy in a similar post complained that the rental costs are not changing with the fluctuation in the market.

 

Personally, I think a player driven market in a game where there are so little items is a disaster. If they just followed what Robocraft had done and set a set price for things, it would be alot simpler, and easier for everyone and then the devs can sleep better at night knowing their gold is no longer losing value. If things keep progressing the way they are, that nice 13 EURO pack of coins is going to allow you to get everything in the game. If you can get everything, then you have no need to buy more.

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Sadly, I would have to mostly agree with the original post. The rent idea is okay, but the prices for some of these rents are overly extreme. For example, the paint container that you can craft that gives a random paint is expensive in resources and costs way more than just going onto the market and buying what you want. 750c for just a 5 part bench? You could just take that 750c and buy almost every paint you want in the market and have way more than 5 paints. I could honestly see like 200c for 5 pieces 10 pieces for 400c and 600c for the 15 piece but any higher is just a money sink as new players can not really craft that much anyhow and it would take much longer to get into crafting and making coin. I have been playing for almost a month and still would not have had a crafted purple item unless I bought a pack or coins to buy one and I play at least 14hrs every two days.

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I cnnot agree about work bench rent prices being a problem. Not as long as people keep selling stuff at 30 % lower than their crafting cost.

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why do we need gold for everythin? even for craftin id say it would be enough to get the actual faction level and thats it but man you need to sell alot of stuff to get actually in crafting

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It's required. The additional cost per item and tax prevents players from sitting on the faction screen buying every material and selling for profit. The bench rental also directly off sets the quick finish charge (notice they are roughly the same) as someone also pointed out this encourages newbies to look into getting coins. This will give devs paychecks by direct sales or encourage more market trading which is where the majority of the devs income comes from. The artisan packs bench rentals may need some looking into, imo the price doesn't justify the desire. 

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They need to look at how Warframe does it. Everything in Warframe can be acquired by grinding in that game except for cosmetic items.

The game basically has 2 main source of currency: Credits (Cant be traded) and Platinum (real game money and can be traded).

Credits can be farmed in missions or selling mods or gears you don't need. Platinum is only acquired by spending money to buy it. Platinum is lost from the player base circulation only if you purchase directly from the in game store or to rush the foundry to instantly create new gear. 

Credits and other materials (farmable in game without limits) are needed to craft new toys. Credit sinks exist in game from trade tax and weekly merchant. Players never really felt forced to use or buy platinum unless they want to expand their arsenal to buy additional warframe and weapon slots which are dirt cheap. 

But here is the magic of Warframe, due to multitude of cosmetic items ( syandanas, deluxe skins, animations, color packs, armor sets, sentinels and pets customization, ship customization, emblems, sigils, clan dojos and so much more) which are ALL optional, players voluntarily get involved in the trading for platinum to get these items.

They only need the goods and credits to sell/trade their stuff for platinum. Which the seller gets 100% without any taxation.

The main items traded are Prime warframes and prime weapons and mods and  yes, they do drop in value due to the high supply but the Devs implemented a vaulting method where certain the prime gears will not be available to farm in game for many months.

This creates a sort of rarity for those vaulted items and sometimes inflate the prices up to 400% due to rarity and popularity. So people rely on this as investments to farm for future platinum income. 

Let's say you're not rich to buy platinum and too lazy to gather platinum by trading. The Devs are clever in putting a random daily login reward which sometimes can give you platinum discounts coupons of 25%, 50% and 75% off. Almost everyone waits and uses the coupons when they get the 75% discount. 

They also have new prime packs every 3 months which includes new gears as well as platinum. IMHO overpriced but some cosmetic items are exclusive to those packs. So these flush back fresh platinum into the game and it works well!

TLDR Warframe success as a FTP is proven being in Gold place on Steam and Crossout can definately learn from what they did right to be successful. 

Edited by NamelesxKing
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So your saying in a game where developers are trying to Pioneer a true player driven market, where 100 percent of all content is available to players completely free we should scrap the whole thing clone the same two piece currency idea 1000s of other games use and spend all the development time on bumper stickers and content that truly is the definition of pay to win?(items that are soley obtainable through real world money is pay to win cosmetic or not) because there are a handful of players who do not like that they have to get involved with the market that soley funds the game?  (・_・\")

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I agree that work bench rental is a problem with the game. The transaction tax already takes money out of circulation for every item that changes hands, the fact that additional money is taken out of the system for every item that is created stops people from even entering the market for profitable items. 

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Hello to everyone in this topic!

Thank you for the feedback and discussion! We do not plan to remove the rent or replace the price in coins with the price in another resource. That's a question of an in-game economy.

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On 7/6/2017 at 7:34 AM, Woodyrojo said:

Hello to everyone in this topic!

Thank you for the feedback and discussion! We do not plan to remove the rent or replace the price in coins with the price in another resource. That's a question of an in-game economy.

Thanks Woodyrojo for your acknowledgement. Players will come around once they understand the importance, and how reasonable the bench prices are. I am really happy to see developers post back to players concerns in the forums. Keep up the good work guys!

*wipes nose off*

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Last night I started looking at what I need to craft a pair of armored tracks.

With the current market values and rental fees I don't see how I can do it. I need coin to make large wheels and balloon tires. Thats 50 coin. I need 100 coin for the purple bench rental. I don't see how I can afford it. Market prices are going down every day. I just don't see how any players are going to get the cash for rentals to make anything past blue parts.

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1 hour ago, SickSix said:

Last night I started looking at what I need to craft a pair of armored tracks.

With the current market values and rental fees I don't see how I can do it. I need coin to make large wheels and balloon tires. Thats 50 coin. I need 100 coin for the purple bench rental. I don't see how I can afford it. Market prices are going down every day. I just don't see how any players are going to get the cash for rentals to make anything past blue parts.

 

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5 hours ago, *SlickToxin said:

 

70-90c? What planet do you live on? 100 copper is right now 16c.

100 fuel is 4-5c.

 

These prices is to buy so when you sell you get even less.

Edited by SuperGnu
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3 hours ago, SickSix said:

Are you playing on XBOX or something? Have you checked copper prices?

Ps4 mostly. 

 

6 hours ago, SuperGnu said:

70-90c? What planet do you live on? 100 copper is right now 16c.

100 fuel is 4-5c.

 

These prices is to buy so when you sell you get even less.

Based on ps4 markets. I wish copper was that cheap. It's 17-19c for 10x there. Even though the exact coin numbers are off the options are still viable. These are just to get your bench open. I created spread sheets once I had a faction/engineer bench open. I toyed with market until I found what the cheapest I could buy raw materials for and the most I could pay for them and still make a minimum of 5c profit per it(popular items) . This is buying all materials. When I start the game I check to see where stuff is at. I always have 20x buys going . I've made slope graphs to show me what I can pay for wires if copper is up or scrap is down ect...  As I'm playing my bank fluctuates between 0c-2000c back and forth  the whole time. When I'm done for the day I put 20x buy copper at the lowest I'd like to pay. Usually sometime overnight I snag that price coming back to 200copper and begin crafting again. I don't pay for the quick finish unless I want to use it.  In theory my equations should be viable even if scrap, copper, wires, electronics were all. 01c each. I've found that the market is integral to progress at a reasonable rate. Many players don't like to be forced to get involved and I get that but idk what else to say. It's what funds the games and pretty much everything revolves around it some way. As for my equations and methods im working on a guide. And I appreciate you mentioning the market differences as I need to take that into account as I'm writing it up because I want it to be applicable no matter what happens to the market in the future. 

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I am a new player, and I have to agree the workbench thing is a total game killer for me.  Whites sell for .02-like .15C  And I am supposed to farm up 25C+ just to rent a workbench that I then have to get more mats and stuff for to make items?

I really like a lot of the game, but the market and crafting aspects need a lot of attention!

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