Mortidon

Workbench rent mechanic is killing the game

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3 hours ago, MacMathan said:

I am a new player, and I have to agree the workbench thing is a total game killer for me.  Whites sell for .02-like .15C  And I am supposed to farm up 25C+ just to rent a workbench that I then have to get more mats and stuff for to make items?

I really like a lot of the game, but the market and crafting aspects need a lot of attention!

Sell cooper what you get from daily fuel and sell some scrap. Rent the engineer blue workbench for 25 and craft a blue fuel tank. Mount both fuel tank on your vehicle (white and blue) and farm fuel. Sell fuel only now. This way you will have some coin income.

There are actually more method to generate coin income , just look around at the net .(And trust me, i'm not lying since i'm F2P and got paid rent's on all factions blue and purple workbenches.)

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The workbench rent mechanic NEEDS to change it's cost. I was pretty irate having to create and sell 2 blue items to rent a purple bench and now thanks to the drop in prices for everything, it has now gone to 3 and rapidly approaching 4. With an increase in players (if they stay that long), the prices for all blues are going to drop below 30c or even lower, and before long, you will need to create and sell 5 items to cover the rent. With the limits on scrap, you are going to end up grinding for the whole week and using up that measly 2800 limit just for the rent, leaving you nothing to craft with until the limit refreshes. 

 

All of this removes the fun out of the game. I understand a grind is needed to keep players occupied, but when the grind is too large and permanently 2 steps forward, 1 step back, you end up burning out players. 

 

Having built what I need from the Lunatics, I change to the Nomads to build a few blues to get a purple, only to realise that I now have to sell nearly everything I created from the Lunatics just to cover the rent for the Nomads. This is only going to get worse.

Edited by Be4st
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I started playing few days ago, when the Knight Riders event started, so I can't comment on epic and legendary.

With regards of rare weapons 25 gold / 5 items seems pretty reasonable to me, considering that by selling scrap it's possible to get that amount in a few hours. Yes, scrap is currently selling at double of the price, but even if it took me twice as much to put the money together I wouldn't complain about it. Unless you expect to get legendary weapons is a couple of weeks, off course. In that case you should consider buying some packs.

Edited by M3chWarri0r

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This is one of the main mechanics and pay walls that has kept me from logging in for the last two weeks or so since OB/Launch.  I even bought two different packs in the game to start and loved the game.  However, after grinding levels, parts and trying to buy low, sell high and craft items only to see the market prices crash I realized that there is no profit to be made in terms of time, effort and cost of materials if bought off the market.

The only way to make profit is to get lucky off a purple from a crate and sell it.  Crafting Blues and below is nothing but a loss of time and coin.  

Seeing as how you can barely make any money selling loot, grinding out 14 hour mission rewards for a blue crate that is simply to much to expect in time week.  I could only stand to play the game maybe an hour per day (now I don't play at all) at best before getting bored and logging off to play something more rewarding in terms of time/enjoyment.

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I Agree it isnt profitable enough to make rare items or even epic items as it takes way to long and once sold depending on the item only just nets you a small profit, E.g making the cricket rocket launcher will sell for around 456 coins (01/08/2017) where as to create its parts they sum to around 425 meaning your making 25 coins for aprox 32 hours of making, there isnt any point may as well try your luck with crates

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On 19.07.2017 г. at 4:29 AM, MacMathan said:

I am a new player, and I have to agree the workbench thing is a total game killer for me.  Whites sell for .02-like .15C  And I am supposed to farm up 25C+ just to rent a workbench that I then have to get more mats and stuff for to make items?

I really like a lot of the game, but the market and crafting aspects need a lot of attention!

As a new player how did you decided you have to be able to craft blue/purples right away? I am new to this game too, but without investments I did well over 200 coins in my first week by playing basic vehicles while farming scrap (which is 9c. atm) fuel and copper. I think you are in a very selfish box and you are angry just because things aren't that way you imagine they have to be. Well, get better, use your brain and basic mathematic skills and you will earn coins. Else you can either grab your credit card or learn how to be more patient.

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16 hours ago, thatrandomslink said:

I Agree it isnt profitable enough to make rare items or even epic items as it takes way to long and once sold depending on the item only just nets you a small profit, E.g making the cricket rocket launcher will sell for around 456 coins (01/08/2017) where as to create its parts they sum to around 425 meaning your making 25 coins for aprox 32 hours of making, there isnt any point may as well try your luck with crates

425c. for creating purples? I think that you are very, very bad at basic math. I have never crafted a purple that costed me more than 350 incl. the workbench in these 350. Never sold purple under 410 and some are even sold for ~450. A profit of ~50 coins is just fine for such craft. And when it comes to yellow weapons the profit is well over 300, sometimes even over 500 c...

Edited by GrimmReaperBG

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With current scrap prices it is absolutely a waste of time to craft blues. If there was no rental fee it would be worth maybe 4 gold profit. Maybe.

Right now selling scrap and fuel is more profitable.

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There already was a mission for 30 coins.But there could be some events that would give players more often coins.Or they could generate coins and buy some things on the market.

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Making the first blue item craftable without the costs of renting a workbench after hitting for example level 5 with engineers could be a solution, that would not impact the overall construct of the implemented coin-drain mechanic too severely, but on the other hand not driving new players completely off. That way they could at least build their first blue at no additional cost, which would provide them the coins for further workbench rents, if they sell it. I was lucky to take part in the 30c event around the time, when I wanted to craft my first item. So I was given a head start. Without it, I probably wouldn't have bought a pack afterwards.

I could see the coin-drain becoming a major problem, IF events like the 30c-mission will never come back. Without the injection of coins into the market by the devs, the drain would increase the value of coins to absurd numbers over time, which could only be "fixed" by buying packs. On the long run this would result in two categories of players: Spenders (paying actual money to play the game and progress) and marketplayers (playing more of a stock exchange simulator than a wasteland survivor game to progress in the actual game content). I think it is important to also maintain and grow a big playerbase, allowing for better matchmaking.

The devs seem to be aware of this, as I see the 30c-event was a test to see how much such an injection would affect the market and the spending habits of the players. They have probably already analyzed their spreadsheets and came to some conclusions (make it less, make it harder to get so fewer people will get it, etc.)

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On 7/2/2017 at 8:36 PM, Be4st said:

Personally, I think a player driven market in a game where there are so little items is a disaster. If they just followed what Robocraft had done and set a set price for things, it would be alot simpler, and easier for everyone and then the devs can sleep better at night knowing their gold is no longer losing value. If things keep progressing the way they are, that nice 13 EURO pack of coins is going to allow you to get everything in the game. If you can get everything, then you have no need to buy more.

The player driven market is ridiculous, but making a set prices for stuff would take the fun out of the market. I mean, some people enjoy doing the marketing. Some people are investors, those that are good at math that is, but still. Maybe put a limit depending on the rarity of things, that is better idea than putting a set price. 

PC market are ridiculously low when it comes to comparing them with console market prices, putting a limit to prices should set things equally. And even though there's no cross-platform that will leave a balance in both console and pc. 

The issue here is the workbenches, yes, its a pain, but they shouldn't take off nor change the gold for another resource. That will leave the game unbalanced too. Lowering the cost is the best idea. 

See, let's say you finally farmed copper you need for crafting a tire. But you need to rent the workbench too, and it takes half of the copper you farmed, what then? You have to go farm again and by the time you get half of that copper again you ran out of gas. Same with scrap or any material in general, except those don't use gas, excluding the coupons. 

Taking the gold off the workbench would bring unbalance to the market or the game in general.

Edited by Raitru

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They just need to put in place infintie AI buy orders at set prices. Base it off of copper. Becuase copper is intrinsically tied to fuel. (?)

So there will always be a rock bottom buy order that players must beat if they dont want the game to eat those items.

The one problem I could see is players expoiting the system to get free coin. Buy always selling to those buy orders. 

 

EDIT: this would ONLY be for white items and resources.

Edited by SickSix

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On ‎03‎.‎07‎.‎2017 at 2:36 AM, Be4st said:

If they just followed what Robocraft had done and set a set price for things, it would be alot simpler, and easier for everyone and then the devs can sleep better at night knowing their gold is no longer losing value. If things keep progressing the way they are, that nice 13 EURO pack of coins is going to allow you to get everything in the game. If you can get everything, then you have no need to buy more.

The gold coins aren't losing value, they're getting more value over time! As the amount of ressources tends to grow while the amount of coins tends to decline.

More coins are leaving the market through taxes and rents than entering it through real cash purchases (that's an assumption) ...

... AND ...

... more ressources are entering the market through players and their mission rewards (that's a fact), as the only way for ressources other than fuel to leave the market is by driver upgrades and fusion/customization rending them untradable and thus leaving the market or scrapping items (where a majority of invested ressources are taken out, while some return). All ressources used for crafting tradable items stay (though in another form) in the market.

But I think you got the idea, as the second part is true. In the future you'll can buy a lot more with the same amount of coins than right now.

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On 7/1/2017 at 0:44 AM, Rabbitfrogtwo said:

That's already how it is! Just sell some scrap you earn.

There are way to many things you need scrap for man I grind and grind and come up with maybe 1500 every few days but seriously it's not enough

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Honestly I think removing the item limits or making the expansions more affordable would increase peoples hording of items therefor reducing the over abundance of blue items on the market. For the inevitable people who stop playing those items will essentially disappear from the game. As it stands most items are more expensive by far to craft than sell. So there is literally no motivation to craft items for sale. I it is more about selling resources o suckers who craft.

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I get the feeling the devs will NEVER change this disgusting form of Pay or Leave tactics. Or they'll wait till absolutely everyone leaves in an attempt to bring people back. thats really xxxx and i see no reason why anyone should continue giving you money if your default response, to your customers asking for you not to **** us, and to change a part of your greedy actions is to tell us to xxxx off.

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On 7/18/2017 at 6:29 PM, MacMathan said:

I am a new player, and I have to agree the workbench thing is a total game killer for me.  Whites sell for .02-like .15C  And I am supposed to farm up 25C+ just to rent a workbench that I then have to get more mats and stuff for to make items?

I really like a lot of the game, but the market and crafting aspects need a lot of attention!

I am also a new player and looking at the cost of purple and above work benches I dont  think ill be sticking around for long. That is just waay to  much grinding and I will never pay real  money to rent a work bench. I was going to buy one of the packs but after reading this I wont waste my money. This game has the worst grind I have ever seen

Edited by VIPER_wotn
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On 9/25/2017 at 6:04 AM, Stewart_Mckinna said:

I get the feeling the devs will NEVER change this disgusting form of Pay or Leave tactics. Or they'll wait till absolutely everyone leaves in an attempt to bring people back. thats really xxxx and i see no reason why anyone should continue giving you money if your default response, to your customers asking for you not to **** us, and to change a part of your greedy actions is to tell us to xxxx off.

This is another reason  my wallet will currently stay closed

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The workbench rent mechanic needs to die. As a rookie, you start, feel really cool cuz you can make **** you want, then you hear that you can make more rare stuff, and yet... I spent 3 hours trying to farm the parts I needed for the [rapier?]. But I can't actually craft it. With the Player Driven Economy as it is (like it or not), anything you can sell is cheap as dirt. Now you hit a paywall, because to rent the cheapest workbench costs 25.00. The best I've ever managed to farm in a reasonable amount of time is 0.30

I get that you can farm money with fuel, but you really shouldn't need to! If they want us to give them money that bad, make it a pay to play game. Not a fake FTP. I shouldn't have to work for a day to get 5 pieces on a workbench, especially when nothing before that point indicated that I would need to.

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Workbench rent might have worked or is still working for people who are at the top echelon of the game, but for the new players, absolutely not.  Market prices are just crashing to oblivion. For a starting player who has very little to sell, this is ridiculous.  What's worse, the weekly blue chest that people mentioned gave me something that I can't even sell.  So now a new player will have an extremely hard time to even earn their first 5 bench rent.

 

I don't usually play these types of games, but this game really caught my attention until I hit this pay wall.  If you guys are trying to keep your company small by limiting your clientele to a very niche market, then you're doing a fantastic job.

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I'm guessing the two comments above are from console players? - these things need to be clear.

The biggest problem with the Market is that it's not straightforward and new players that don't take the time to understand it will be defeated by it.

@ManaiaLing - I don't know why you're struggling to sell your crates, I have no problem selling my daily or weekly crates for a good rate of coin on the overnight Market (PC).

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3 hours ago, Pickle_CO said:

I'm guessing the two comments above are from console players? - these things need to be clear.

The biggest problem with the Market is that it's not straightforward and new players that don't take the time to understand it will be defeated by it.

@ManaiaLing - I don't know why you're struggling to sell your crates, I have no problem selling my daily or weekly crates for a good rate of coin on the overnight Market (PC).

I was referring to the item I got from the crate.  But yes, I understand that I can buy the gear if I sell the loot I get, the problem here is about the workbench rent.  This rent is ridiculously high compared to the market prices.  If a new player can just buy the gear cheaper from the market, why would they pay for the workbench rent is the rant here.

 

Not to mention it is very newbie unfriendly.  Give people an option to buy one workbench rental so they can craft one item that they need instead of needing to save up 25 gold and be forced to buy a bundle of at least 5.

Edited by ManaiaLing

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1 hour ago, ManaiaLing said:

I was referring to the item I got from the crate.  But yes, I understand that I can buy the gear if I sell the loot I get, the problem here is about the workbench rent.  This rent is ridiculously high compared to the market prices.  If a new player can just buy the gear cheaper from the market, why would they pay for the workbench rent is the rant here.

Market 101 - never open the crate.  It's mentioned three times a day on the forum.  You're warned in the crate description that any Blue you receive will be untradeable (but it can be Fused or Scrapped).

The Bench rent is practical under some circumstances, it's entirely dependent upon your specific need (ie. if there's a specific item you need and can craft) and the Market prices on the commodities needed and whether or not you already have them in your inventory.  I've found it useful for certain items I want to Fuse, when they market price for the items I need is above average but the commodity price is below average.

It pays to watch the market prices, the influence of Seasons is significant along with the day of the week and the time of day.  The first weekend of a Season and late evening GMT/UST is a particularly interesting point in the Market (ie. the weekend just gone) with lots of opportunities to profit.

New players are at a disadvantage because of their newness, until you watch a few fortnight long Seasons run through you do not have the necessary information to judge the market well.  It's not an unfairness on the system, it's just one of those things.  If you think you can understand the came within a week you're wrong.  And it's impossible to understand the full mechanics and economy of the game until you get passed the <L10 kindergarten games.

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