Mortidon

Workbench rent mechanic is killing the game

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Complete the Saisons to get free benches.

Bonuses can stack, but not higher than 50% and 100% together.

All benches can used on every faction (not for each faction). And have no time limitation!

Free rare engineering faction max limit: 12

Free rare max limit: 6

Free epic max limit : 3

Free legendary max limit : 1

You can buy additional benches for coins.

 

 

Easy Saison 50% = 6 Benches rare (for engineering faction)

Easy Saison 100% = 6 Benches rare (for engineering faction)

Total: 6 (50%) + 6 (100%) = 12 rare (for engineering faction)

 

Medium Saison 50% = 3 Benches rare

Medium Saison 100% = 3 Benches rare

Total : 3 + 3 = 6 Rare

 

Hard Saison 50% = 1 Benches epic

Hard Saison 100% = 2 Benches epic

Total : 1 + 2 = 3 Epic

 

If you complete all 3 Saisons with 100%, you get one legandary bench!

Edited by Todesklinge
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As I said in another post, LETS JUST GET RID OF THE XXXXING MARKET SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Its totally ruining the game. Almost every improvement that's beneficial for the actual game has some sort of negative effect on the market. It keeps making people talk about costs and coins and price fluctuation and profit which don't have anything to do with the ACTUAL gameplay. It's the center of so many problems that cannot POSSIBLY be fixed and are being continuously raved over by the community without any useful result.

We really need to show all the greedy devs in the gaming industry that making their game pay to win will actually decrease their profit. 

WHY THE HELL DO SOME PEOPLE KEEP TALKING AS IF THIS GAME HAS NO PROBLEMS? ARE THEY BEING PAYED BY GAIJIN OR WHAT?

A game isn't your job. You play games to have fun and relieve stress, NOT to get even more stressed by doing math and economics and stuff and lose precious time with needless grinds.

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8 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

As I said in another post, LETS JUST GET RID OF THE XXXXING MARKET SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Its totally ruining the game. Almost every improvement that's beneficial for the actual game has some sort of negative effect on the market. It keeps making people talk about costs and coins and price fluctuation and profit which don't have anything to do with the ACTUAL gameplay. It's the center of so many problems that cannot POSSIBLY be fixed and are being continuously raved over by the community without any useful result.

We really need to show all the greedy devs in the gaming industry that making their game pay to win will actually decrease their profit. 

WHY THE HELL DO SOME PEOPLE KEEP TALKING AS IF THIS GAME HAS NO PROBLEMS? ARE THEY BEING PAYED BY GAIJIN OR WHAT?

A game isn't your job. You play games to have fun and relieve stress, NOT to get even more stressed by doing math and economics and stuff and lose precious time with needless grinds.

Are you puzzled? Now, I tell you what the correct answer is.
The amount of scrap metal and wires in the market will change drastically every two weeks or so, with scrap metal soaring 4000 - 6000 (100 scrap metal units) within hours, and the number of players seeking to buy will also drop by 1000 - 2000 (100 scrap metal units) This makes all the goods will cut prices, most players lose the bonus. So who won the prize in the end? Cheating players use automated controls to win scrap metal and wire, and they can take advantage of market loopholes that allow the coin to be transferred to another player. This is not personal behavior, but a planned team.
2 months ago the market scrap iron, as the following picture. Can you find something special?

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1 hour ago, Captaindontshoot said:

Are you puzzled? Now, I tell you what the correct answer is.
The amount of scrap metal and wires in the market will change drastically every two weeks or so, with scrap metal soaring 4000 - 6000 (100 scrap metal units) within hours, and the number of players seeking to buy will also drop by 1000 - 2000 (100 scrap metal units) This makes all the goods will cut prices, most players lose the bonus. So who won the prize in the end? Cheating players use automated controls to win scrap metal and wire, and they can take advantage of market loopholes that allow the coin to be transferred to another player. This is not personal behavior, but a planned team.
2 months ago the market scrap iron, as the following picture. Can you find something special?

Sorry, but I don't get what you mean. It's these kind of posts I'm talking about.

10 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

It keeps making people talk about costs and coins and price fluctuation and profit which don't have anything to do with the ACTUAL gameplay.

 

10 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

are being continuously raved over by the community without any useful result.

Your post doesn't have anything to do with actual gameplay. You're just talking about some sort of market-related nonsense.

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46 minutes ago, kkang2828 said:

Your post doesn't have anything to do with actual gameplay. You're just talking about some sort of market-related nonsense.

If you don't understand (or want to understand) how/why the Market works, then it's always going to be nonsense to you.

The Market isn't broken (at least on PC), it's just that a lot of players don't understand it - either they don't take the time to understand it, or they're incapable of understanding it.

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You aren't getting my point. 

23 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

As I said in another post, LETS JUST GET RID OF THE XXXXING MARKET SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Its totally ruining the game. Almost every improvement that's beneficial for the actual game has some sort of negative effect on the market. It keeps making people talk about costs and coins and price fluctuation and profit which don't have anything to do with the ACTUAL gameplay. It's the center of so many problems that cannot POSSIBLY be fixed and are being continuously raved over by the community without any useful result.

MY POINT IS THAT THE MARKET IS DOING NOTHING BUT HARM TO THE GAME AND SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH!!

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As an alternative to help new players, why not give all new players C20 and have an engineers 'bank'?

The bank generates interest at 1% per day if the player doesn't play. Maximum 7 days x 1% interest before the bank suspends interest.  This should ensure that players play at least once a week to receive any additional interest.

The bank is only eligible for new players until they reach level [X] (somewhere between 5 and 10). After which time, all funds are just treated as normal with no interest paid.

This would greatly help new players that are time poor and cannot 'grind' for resources. (I lucked in with a C20 crate drop when I was just starting out. It made a big difference!  All newbies should be so lucky...)

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On 1/26/2018 at 4:12 AM, Stoopid_noob said:

The bank is only eligible for new players until they reach level [X] (somewhere between 5 and 10). After which time, all funds are just treated as normal with no interest paid.

I see one flaw in this, I could make a new account and never bother leveling it up, generate enough cash to buy everything I want, I would rather see x ammount of weeks/months to not exploit that feature.
allso now with daily 60000 xp bonus you hit lvl5 real fast, so this "bank" wouldnt last long.
why not rather give any NEW accounts 150 coins or so to start with?

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40 minutes ago, Sasherz said:

why not rather give any NEW accounts 150 coins or so to start with?

I remember playing on Guerilla and Hornet's at first, than progressing, checking new builds, new weapons and hardware. If I would have 150 coins at first, I would leave this game fast, because it would allow me to have blue cabin and 2 weapons and play on PS I would not understand and would lose af.

On 26.01.2018 at 4:12 AM, Stoopid_noob said:

The bank generates interest at 1% per day if the player doesn't play. Maximum 7 days x 1% interest before the bank suspends interest.

Most funds are located in owned items, would you include that too? Also, 1% of 100 coins is equivalent of 1 scrap battle won with fuel barrel, so it's pointless.

Market is a fine addition to this game. If you are smart, you can make some money without playing and it teaches kids how real stock works (more or less). Is it not enough? Okay. After some time just by looking you can estimate future prices. You can check which items are good by popularity or price compared to others. Example: After last patch Avenger, Judge and Executioner got nerfed. But not Mammoth which still has a lot of firepower. Also, that item I crafted one day earlier to keep it for myself. But I saw that only 6 Mammoths are available to sell and many, many more is needed. So I sold it for so much money it allowed me to buy 3x Equalizer, Aurora, Quantum, 2x Charged radiator and third Executioner. Besides, cost of 5 legendary workbenches paid off just after one legendary item. Also2, items needed for Mammoth production 'suddenly' got more expensive and I could craft those and be sure they will be sold for enough.

Market is not harming this game. Market is a ladder Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to crafting or quick-buying or fixed prices. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. -Petyr Baelish

And remember. Capitalism is a God's way of determining who is smart and who is poor. -Ron Swanson

See ya

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The renting thing is somewhat vain considering you give new players absolutely 0 funds to rent one to begin with.

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If you remove workbench and Market 10% crap(not sure who is getting that 10%) this game will increase in player count for sure .People have fun with market,enjoy the game.

 

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ok, it is actually hilarious, but you guys nearly said EVERYTHING wrong about the topic. here is some basic economics for you:

If a game doesn't put in coin sinks, where the coin is taken out of circulation by the system (like workbenches or the 10% market fee) then due to INFLATION, money will be worthless. due to the nature of the economical system where new coins are generated from the outside, after some years you will need like 10.000.000 coins for a fking lupara. that is how inflation works. ofc a scrap metal would be worth much more as well, but heavy inflation is much worse for a starting player, due to money distribution plus supply-demand. so actually all these economic safety nets like rent costs, market fee etc, which are basically cash sinks, help new players, and everyone really, because i dont think you want to type in big fking numbers just to buy a lupara.

This is basic economy and how money works in the real world as well. but if you don't want real world examples, you can look at many other games without cash sinks, money will become so worthless that some people will run around with 1.000.000.000.00 while some people have to farm for a day for a chord. usually people in these kinds of games stop using money as an exchange mediator, and use direct trading. (so they trade one item with another, with no money involved... if trading is possible of course)

Devs have put in many different cash sinks and it's ok, for example upgrade is one of them, 3 items made by money and parts disappear and you get an UNTRADABLE ONE, which cannot circulate anymore in the market. This helps people with the top1% money to be able to spend money for a long time, so they won't xxxx up all the prices for the others, since their money never becomes worthless, because i don't think I've seen a person with 2 upgraded scorpions... but if like 2% of playerbase will start running around with fully upgraded scorpions, you can bet your **** that very heavy inflation will start because the money they accumulate will xxxx up all the prices.

 

furthermore every price you see on the market is about supply and demand... obviously when a new faction comes out, it will cost a shitton for a while because very few people can produce it(=supply) so they have monopoly on the price, and many people want to try them so demand is high. so obviously a new faction's higher level blue weapon could even cost 1000coins for a day, because the supply is so low so there is no competition.

furthermore, the 5coin instant craft cost for blue items, 20 instant craft cost for purple and 80 instant craft cost for legendary item is another good way to keep the economy in check. it means supply can be endless for a certain price, so the prices can never go above the creating cost + the instant craft cost, and this helps new players too.

so actually most of the economic decisions trion made are helpful to new players, and generally helpful to most people because it helps avoiding inflation.

Edited by atomisten
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lol....with so many topics about "something" is/are killing the game... the sloooooooooooooow death of this game still here,and so funny there are many more new packs and toys we can play with. The first post was June last year.

I wonder if the OP still play this game.  3 more months we can pop a champagne and give this topic 1 year "not so dead" anniversary!!:002:

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i am a new player as well its very annoying for those bench rental to craft things so you can progress in game but worst thing is the market where there is 10 percent tax deduction from your sales that makes the game not friendly to new players hope they do not need to add this tax bs in market cause other games in market does not have tax at all and this work bench rental is good when they give discount event if not they are so bad.

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46 minutes ago, Xaphro said:

i am a new player as well its very annoying for those bench rental to craft things so you can progress in game but worst thing is the market where there is 10 percent tax deduction from your sales that makes the game not friendly to new players hope they do not need to add this tax bs in market cause other games in market does not have tax at all and this work bench rental is good when they give discount event if not they are so bad.

Many feel the same. I have come to the conclusion that Gajin is not willing to change. This [massive restriction] is really their scheme, even though they had a community willing to play their game. It sucks because a lot of people actually like the game. I just hope another, non pay-to-win developer, comes out with something similar. This was my first pay-to-win - and its been gross.

All we can do now is warn others before they make the same mistake..

Edited by bobsixtenine
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I don't understand why the devs are stubborn and do not seem to propose an alternative that would be less annoying for loyal players. As of right now I prefer to win resources and sell them in order to buy from the market. Why? Cause it's faster, cheaper by as much as a blue workbench cost, and as a matter of fact when I realised I had to buy a purple workbench I gave up. I made the math, it would take 24 hours to manufacture 2 Armored tracks with a 200c loss than if I had bought on the market right now. I could buy nearly 3 tracks from just selling the resources and buying from the market. I don't have to spend any coins to do both ways.

As a player, I would ask to let the players the choice to manufacture at a lower cost for profit and that 24 hours of ''work'' is gonna be worth it....

But as a logical person, I understand the devs for not touching the workbench rents as it stabilize the market prices. If it was for a discount on workbenches then the market would apply the same discount since it's going to be more profitable to manufacture than to buy. We all know basic economic and if no one buys your parts then you will lower your price. It's all supply and demand law here. The workbenches fix the prices of the market parts.

 

Quote

Now what could be conceivable is offering the players the possibility to buy a discount workbench pass for a limited time so if they want to sell on the market for profit, they will have to be active on the game first and second manufacture as much as they can during the time of their discount pass? Isn't it a little better alternative than just asking for lower workbench rent prices? Feel free to add your 2 cent to my proposition. I believe not everyone would spend money for those passes but those who like the game will want to grind and to sell and to manufacture parts and they will have the possibility to do all of that for a fair price for both parties.

Feel free to add your 2 cents if you think it could improve my idea.

 

Spoiler

My bad if my writing is not fluent as I am not completely bilingual.

 

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The thing many people still completly overlook is that work bench rent is a fixed cost that is paid by all crafters the same. As such, it is basically a fixed part of the item price.

 

At highest efficiency, a blue part costs 4.50 Coins in work bench fees. Double that amount and profitability will be the same but instead of increasing the price of every blue item by 4.50 Coins it will increase the price of every blue item by 9.00 Coins.

 

Reduce work bench fee to 0.50 Coins per blue part and prices will drop by 4.00 Coins per blue part. Profitability remains unchanged and in fact will rather go down than up as more competition creates pressure on the prices.

 

 

Work Bench rent could be anything between 1 and 10000 coins.... your profits are not affected because every producer has the exact same cost.

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What people also don't realize is that any game with built-in economy needs a currency sink to prevent inflation. You need to siphon off the currency or eventually, you'll be paying 1000s of coins for blue items. How would you like to buy a $60 pack that gives you enough coins to buy 1 blue item?

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On 1/9/2018 at 2:56 AM, kkang2828 said:

As I said in another post, LETS JUST GET RID OF THE XXXXING MARKET SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Its totally ruining the game. Almost every improvement that's beneficial for the actual game has some sort of negative effect on the market. It keeps making people talk about costs and coins and price fluctuation and profit which don't have anything to do with the ACTUAL gameplay. It's the center of so many problems that cannot POSSIBLY be fixed and are being continuously raved over by the community without any useful result.

We really need to show all the greedy devs in the gaming industry that making their game pay to win will actually decrease their profit. 

WHY THE HELL DO SOME PEOPLE KEEP TALKING AS IF THIS GAME HAS NO PROBLEMS? ARE THEY BEING PAYED BY GAIJIN OR WHAT?

A game isn't your job. You play games to have fun and relieve stress, NOT to get even more stressed by doing math and economics and stuff and lose precious time with needless grinds.

You dont get the concept of free to play, right?

A game isnt our job, correct. But its someones job and they need to make money so free players like you can enjoy this game.
To achieve this there needs to be some kind of package and coin sink as many already pointed out.

However different to any other free2play title i've played so far, every item can be achieved through the market.

Now compare that to WOT / WarThunder where premium ammo or premium planes that can only be achieved with RL money.....
 

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while I do agree that the workbench costs are kind of an issue I soundly beleive it has more to do with the fixed number of parts you have to pay for as opposed to anything else. Allowing a reward tier to the blue crate of a free 1 part workbench at rare should help ease new people in while not negatively affecting the market by too much.

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On 3/18/2018 at 2:11 PM, Dengar_ said:

The renting thing is somewhat vain considering you give new players absolutely 0 funds to rent one to begin with.

That may be the point, you aren't supposed to need it until your a fair ways along.

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Guest RANG3R

I recently started playing and it has been fun as hell... I finally got to lvl 10 though and noticed how much of a pain it will be just to continue progressing in the game and instantly uninstalled. Not worth the grind. Glad I didn't buy anything for real money yet. I will come back in a year or so if the game is still alive just to see how much has changed and hopefully this mechanic is made less irritating for new players or replaced entirely

Edited by RANG3R

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The problem here is that new players or players in general don't understand that resources = coin, they just can't see it.

100 scrap metal is worth 5.75 coins today (16/jul/2018), that means approximately 6 coins every 5-6 matches, so is almost 1 coin per match, you can rent a blue workbench after 25 matches, ok 30... thats pretty decent to me. And when you start farming wires and batteries is even faster...

And this is without taking in account the seasons, easy season is ultra easy to complete and it gives you 1075 scrap metal = 60 coins

A new player that started playing yesterday can have blue items today, just selling the scrap metal, in 1 week can have his first epic and in a month his first legendary, and thats starting from 0, when you have gear and levels, the grind is even faster.

Completing seasons gives more than 1200 coins, and you can do it every 2 weeks, thats 2400c in a month, and thats just the seasons, if you play pvp (ofc you do) you get maybe 3500c or 4000c in a month.

Edited by Heinx

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