morti271

Everything wrong with Leviathan battles

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Hey guys,
in the following I'd like to point out a few things that I would like to see changed in the Invasion game mode.

 

1.) The PS requirement of 3000 is way to low, which results in new players unintentionally ruin other peoples games by joining with 3000 PS and fighting a leviathan that kills them in 2 seconds.
Set it to at least 4500.

 

2.) Set a limit for installing cannons on Leviathans. Nothing is more frustrating than fighting a Leviathan with exclusively Fat Man turrets mounted on it that take forever to destroy and kill even the strongest player vehicles in a few salvos.

 

3.) Improve the Leviathan AI.
Sometimes Leviathans are just focus firing the objective, and there is nothing you can do to prevent it, so you automatically lose.

Leviathans also like to run and hide which makes the situation even worse.

 

4.) Finally some kind of Leviathan QA would help the game mode.
As I mentioned earlier cannon spam Leviathans should be disqualified from the game mode, as well as trolls with only some armor and fuel barrels or whatever installed.

Right now there are basically only two factors which decide if you win or lose, none of them is player skill. Those factors are:


Is the Leviathan an op Fat Man build or just a troll?
How many 3000k PS players are in your team?

I hope that you will improve the game mode in the future.
I would also like to see more focus on PvE content overall, as the fuel nerf hit PvE pretty hard.
Why not reduce the fuel cost of raids, but also reduce the copper income?
Or go back to the old 25 fuel per win+survive, but also lower the copper income of raids?

This way there would be the same proportions between fuel and copper, except that PvE is actually a viable game mode again, because you can play more than two hard raids a day without grinding for fuel.

 

 

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I'm someone who has a Leviathan with 6 Fat Men, and I'd like to point out that those aren't exactly cheap, so it'd be a bit unfair if they were arbitrarily restricted.

The real problem with cannons on Leviathans as far as I can tell is that Leviathans don't suffer any reduction in accuracy while moving, which is why the cheapest Levis are just growls with all cannons, that can run circles around any player vehicle that can even remotely stand up to them, while at the same time raining shells on you with extreme accuracy.

What they should change about the cannons is make them a little less accurate so that staying a good distance away from the Levi actually helps.

My biggest beef with Leviathans is that it's easy to make a Leviathan that can outrun any normal vehicle that has enough HP and Firepower to challenge a Leviathan. It should be a huge lumbering machine, not a racecar-battleship. 

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My friend and I play Invasions every day. We love the challenge, and have finally figured out a lot of the AI's habits. What we do NOT like is showing up in our 6-7k PS builds, made specifically for Levi's, and getting two teammates with sub-4k builds that die early, often, and then leave. We end up using up a couple of our repair kits to try to finish off the last Levi or two as a 2-man team.

To make matters worse, those low-PS builds usually get the top rewards, even if they only killed a couple of red AI vans before they died. Nice bonus.

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On 2.8.2017 at 11:01 AM, VooDoo_G5 said:

To make matters worse, those low-PS builds usually get the top rewards, even if they only killed a couple of red AI vans before they died. Nice bonus.

You don't get anything extra from destroying the vans. And the higher the PS the more you get.

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please please fix this issue

just played 5 invasions and was the highest PS in each of them (8209) and every other player came 3500-5500 range.

lost all 5, even had one guy just doing doughnuts around rig instead of fighting the lev!!???

i suggest a 3000 PS and 6000 PS invasion as the current system is unfair to those with higher PS but at the same time lower PS players should still be able to play.

to help this, please, look on youtube or the forums and use a PVE build :002j:

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i somewhat like to play with low PS teammates, you face weaker levis.

the problem with invasion isnt the PS in general, but that people dont have a build designed to do it.

i see alot of 5-6k builds that are useless because they get 1 shoted or striped in seconds.. 

 

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     , Redesign your build, I'm telling you it's not hard to win majority of fights.

I've won over 200 invasions and killed over 500 leviathians. 

I use 2 builds. 

First build is pure power and armor. I stack all the armor I can on THE Front, make two towers spaced but connected at top. 2 wasps and a cricket, ammo crates. 9k PS, you can go higher if you'd like but that's enough copper for me. 

Second build I call a hunter build. Wide front end with armor in front, two spit fires on the sides so they won't get shot off and a chainsaw upfront middle. Behind my cabin,  2 equalizers along with weapon cooler. This build is quick and the front end is lowered so sometimes I can flip those big  SOBs with epic weapons and get the win. 

Try different combos, I even had a build with two caucasus and two equalizers that worked. 

 

***I do agree it is Bull when the tower goes to 0 from 100 in seconds. The only counter is to have a smart teammate that stays in the center incase the team wanders off to kill a Leviathian 

Edited by Kilahhjoe

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1 hour ago, ost3rh4g3n said:

 

the problem with invasion isnt the PS in general, but that people dont have a build designed to do it.

i see alot of 5-6k builds that are useless because they get 1 shoted or striped in seconds.. 

 

exactly

1 hour ago, Kilahhjoe said:

     , Redesign your build, I'm telling you it's not hard to win majority of fights.

I've won over 200 invasions and killed over 500 leviathians. 

I use 2 builds. 

First build is pure power and armor. I stack all the armor I can on THE Front, make two towers spaced but connected at top. 2 wasps and a cricket, ammo crates. 9k PS, you can go higher if you'd like but that's enough copper for me. 

Second build I call a hunter build. Wide front end with armor in front, two spit fires on the sides so they won't get shot off and a chainsaw upfront middle. Behind my cabin,  2 equalizers along with weapon cooler. This build is quick and the front end is lowered so sometimes I can flip those big  SOBs with epic weapons and get the win. 

Try different combos, I even had a build with two caucasus and two equalizers that worked. 

 

***I do agree it is Bull when the tower goes to 0 from 100 in seconds. The only counter is to have a smart teammate that stays in the center incase the team wanders off to kill a Leviathian 

my build is the same as your first build, trouble is the lower PS players usually (9/10) run with PVP builds.

i would assume its newer players fielding lower score vehicles and therefore have lower part counts, low tier weapons and not knowing about PVE builds, hence my suggestion of 2 different invasions , a 3k and a 6k PS scores, a sort of newbie and pro level? :001j:

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3 hours ago, McDaggart said:

exactly

my build is the same as your first build, trouble is the lower PS players usually (9/10) run with PVP builds.

i would assume its newer players fielding lower score vehicles and therefore have lower part counts, low tier weapons and not knowing about PVE builds, hence my suggestion of 2 different invasions , a 3k and a 6k PS scores, a sort of newbie and pro level? :001j:

I say keep them together, people should be able to see what builds work and gather and build accordingly. Even with all the variables today, out of 10 invasions, I lost 2. That's a great win percentage in my eyes. 

Edited by Kilahhjoe

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Don't always blame the PS, blame the players. I have high 5k vehicles (sometimes low 6k) and do Invasion a few times nearly every day but I win often with others with similar PS as well as lose some even with others in the 8k+ range. I'm rarely ever the first to lose both lives if at all. You just have to play smart and to your vehicle strengths and weaknesses. The Levi is an ever changing variable as well which sometimes makes vehicle PS moot if either the players aren't savy or the Levi is extremely OP.

 

I agree with raising the PS requirement to at least 4500. I wouldn't want it raised any higher than 5k though.

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On 26.7.2017 at 4:28 PM, Aetrion said:

The real problem with cannons on Leviathans as far as I can tell is that Leviathans don't suffer any reduction in accuracy while moving

Also it is just amazing how accurate Levis shots with AGS. Just awesome how good they his anyone who is 300m away and moving. I would be the king of Crossout if i would be able to shot such accurate like Levis do.

 

And also raising PS Level should be a thing. Yesterday would be great time to implement it. I loose very often because this 3k people rush into first Levi, let them kill and blame the team.

Edited by MALKAV1337

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You guys realize, the higher the team's combined power score the harder the leviathian right? I like getting 2 3k PS players and a 5k or so. 

. Gear up to do explosive damage or shot gun armor builds to pin the leviathian, don't use fuel tanks, the Levi aim for your cabin so armor up, use radar and radios to help locate enemies. You have to make a build dedicated to fighting a leviathian.

 

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11 minutes ago, Kilahhjoe said:

You guys realize, the higher the team's combined power score the harder the leviathian right? I like getting 2 3k PS players and a 5k or so.

Ye we know. But still 4x 5k ps player against 20k Levi is better than 4x 3k ps player against 12k Levi.

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14 hours ago, Kilahhjoe said:

I say keep them together, people should be able to see what builds work and gather and build accordingly. Even with all the variables today, out of 10 invasions, I lost 2. That's a great win percentage in my eyes. 

I see what your saying but i would prefer to not waste the fuel by losing the game whilst players are on a learning curve, i suppose that raising the PS level might help but might also leave new players out of it, or maybe have it something to level towards like unlocking lev's at 17?

maybe reduce fuel cost on invasions?, that way we can play more?

also i saw it somewhere but not sure on this, is the lev PS based on..

first- 1/2 teams combined PS

second- the actual teams combined PS

third one- double the teams PS????

can someone correct or confirm?

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4 hours ago, McDaggart said:

I see what your saying but i would prefer to not waste the fuel by losing the game whilst players are on a learning curve, i suppose that raising the PS level might help but might also leave new players out of it, or maybe have it something to level towards like unlocking lev's at 17?

maybe reduce fuel cost on invasions?, that way we can play more?

also i saw it somewhere but not sure on this, is the lev PS based on..

first- 1/2 teams combined PS

second- the actual teams combined PS

third one- double the teams PS????

can someone correct or confirm?

I read it's 50%,75%,100% of the team's power score. 

And im telling you guys how wrong you are and to make better builds because I clean house when there's only a few 3ks.  It's sometimes impossible to kill anything above 20K PS.  Going above 18k PS on a leviathian means yellow and relic guns. It's a whole league up. 

This build has all 2x Lupara, one vector, weapon cooler, buzz saw and its on a jawbreaker. You may not have all the armor but the idea is there. It works half decent and it's cheap

 

PS_Messages_20170807_160546.jpg

Edited by Kilahhjoe
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5 hours ago, Kilahhjoe said:

And im telling you guys how wrong you are and to make better builds because I clean house when there's only a few 3ks.  It's sometimes impossible to kill anything above 20K PS.  Going above 18k PS on a leviathian means yellow and relic guns. It's a whole league up. 

with respect that's your opinion, your saying use lower PS score vehicles so the lev is lower, fine ok i understand that......

 but would you see our point of view as it is unfair if you want to field a higher PS vehicle and higher PS score lev's are doable as yesterday i had the rare event of being the lowest PS player on the team at 8209, everyone else was 10K+,

guess what, we were all using PVE builds and we killed all 3 levs easily, GG :) 

there are different levels for other raids so im suggesting there could be for invasion to keep everyone reasonable happy?

on a side note that build you have shown, once your front end is blown off (which is going to be quite early on i would think) leaving you with only one vector? i would have raised all weapons up away from cab? i shall try it and see :D

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4 hours ago, McDaggart said:

with respect that's your opinion, your saying use lower PS score vehicles so the lev is lower, fine ok i understand that......

 but would you see our point of view as it is unfair if you want to field a higher PS vehicle and higher PS score lev's are doable as yesterday i had the rare event of being the lowest PS player on the team at 8209, everyone else was 10K+,

guess what, we were all using PVE builds and we killed all 3 levs easily, GG :) 

there are different levels for other raids so im suggesting there could be for invasion to keep everyone reasonable happy?

on a side note that build you have shown, once your front end is blown off (which is going to be quite early on i would think) leaving you with only one vector? i would have raised all weapons up away from cab? i shall try it and see :D

That's just a test build, for pinning a leviathian it works well.  Once you get purples adapt the build. 

 

On 8/6/2017 at 3:53 PM, Kilahhjoe said:

 

Second build I call a hunter build. Wide front end with armor in front, two spit fires on the sides so they won't get shot off and a chainsaw upfront middle. Behind my cabin,  2 equalizers along with weapon cooler. This build is quick and the front end is lowered so sometimes I can flip those big  SOBs with epic weapons and get the win. 

The "hunter" build is a humpback with gas generator as well.  On ps4 exhibition as "Hunter" if you'd like to look

Edited by Kilahhjoe

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ok, little bit of insight after playing the last few days....

lower PS vehicles are ok but the team was lucky if we destroyed the final lev before time runs out, i'd say 4/5 invasions done were like that, that was running at 4500-5000 PS, just didn't have the firepower to quickly do the job.

higher PS 7500-8500 battles, same frustrations as before, 

what i did notice was the other vehicles/players were not built towards PVE, rarely did i see cabs fully enclosed with weapons mounted off the cab. most had low end machine guns, a few cannons with  cabs exposed, multiple!? fuel barrels strapped on the back of the cab. most weapons bolted directly on the cab, and looking at the parts used i would say newer players/lower level in factions. couple times players asking in chat "how to die" etc so obviously new to game

so maybe instead of limiting or changing PS why not have levelled invasions, ie one could be 1-10 the other 10+ in engineer faction? that way people who expect some degree of experience in the game play in the higher level to avoid the frustration?    :)

i have seen the immature insults and team blaming in chat from others becoming more often, shame really............... :((

kilahhjoe, couldnt find your builds, loads of "hunters", im Pc, is it different to ps4? id like to try them out 

 

Edited by McDaggart
missed out last bit

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I wish I could help ya more. Fire power and building is hopefully what people will look into before invasions. My 2 builds are on ps4 only, I can post some pics again of my 9k ps build but it's the same style as the one in this thread, just better weapons. 

Knowledge hopefully gets passed around and you will win more.  I get roughly 4/5 wins anymore but I'm near end game.  

I suggest shotguns, melee and equalizers for a rush build. 

Wasps, crickets, cannons for sniper builds, keep trying though. 

Armor and weapon placement is very crucial 

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On 14.8.2017 at 3:59 AM, RZ2000 said:

It’s fair, the cannon spam and all. The cannons are expensive so...

So you think P2W is okay?

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lol u think cannon spam is bad the worst ive see is when this little box comes round the corner with 20 drones following it, surely its the best levi build.

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11 hours ago, morti271 said:

So you think P2W is okay?

9 hours ago, RZ2000 said:

Yes, it literally keeps the game aliveIMO

So,  um...

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RaminShokrizade/20170711/301088/What_Killed_the_MMOG.php

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/177190/next_generation_monetization_.php?page=1

...no.

The the problem with Levis is sealclubbing, same as with certain PVP brackets. The power score of components in general only barely reflects its actual power. Weapons are particularly bad.

This means the 3k PS players aren't actually failing at PS, they're failing at having expensive boats. It's fine as long as A) the entire team is near 3k and B) they're all rocking gas generators and such. I would say epic/legend weapons in particular, but I've heard wasps outperform crickets.

Edited by Alrenous

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