Mraevn

Drone Hangar - All Ideas and Suggestions

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I understand exactly what you are saying, but you're simply wrong. Its so easy to point your finger at their damage output. Thats not the issue. And also people dont want to shoot androids all match, rework drones to be more focused. 

Fix this now while its in beta. You must limit ai controled drones to a bare minimum before the games release if you want to retain players. 

 

Post some ideas for the devs. Im pretty sure they are reading. 

 

Edited by RockPigeon
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Limiting number is not the way.

It's like adding blue MG with 460 structure and 200% of vector damage for 3 energy, but you can install just one. Oh sooo balance of power kept equalised.

Tons of other good suggestion, but that one is just crappy.

 

And here's some crazy idea, probably not likely to be added. What if "drone deployer" turns into just "drone controller"? When equipped in the garage, it spawns second small cabin (2x2x4, 100 structure, 5 energy, including frame attachment points on the lower half) that follows all the normal rules of car building (including PS cost of parts you decide to add, like wheels, weapons, ect.; each part of the drone can be destroyed separately, do not regenerate, part limit). It gives you some advantages (+1 net energy, separate target, aim-bot, each can mount their own generator, so with enough part you can reach monstrous PS army) and some disadvantages (can't target weapons because of aim-bot, stupidly charge enemy lines or just ram everything around)

TL:DR design your drone as your car

 

More realistic idea: Just make sure that [(damage&structure)/(skill required to use)/PS=constant] for all weapons. So drones should have MAX damage and durability of vector, without regeneration, but should be smarter (staying with carrier) and shouldn't self-detonate over time.

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1 hour ago, Spaceboy_uk said:

RockPigeon has hit the nail on the head.

 

It's the number of drones that's the problem... A single big drone doing 3x dps would be much easier to deal with than 3 smaller drones.  The issue is exponentially worsened with the number of drones as it becomes a matter of splitting your damage among multiple (small, highly mobile) targets.

Then it's energy that sould be increased again to keep the low numbers. Maybe also increasing its PS accordingly.

 

I don't like the idea:

-a 12 energy tought drone dealing 600 and so DPS.

-Lower numbers would certainly helps a lot canon an rockets to deal with it (supposed to be weak against) but would makes it harder for MGs and SGs (supposed counters).

Edited by MMxiter

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5 hours ago, Spaceboy_uk said:

RockPigeon has hit the nail on the head.

 

It's the number of drones that's the problem... A single big drone doing 3x dps would be much easier to deal with than 3 smaller drones.  The issue is exponentially worsened with the number of drones as it becomes a matter of splitting your damage among multiple (small, highly mobile) targets.

Thanks. You explained it better than i did in just one paragraph.

To the guys who are instantly turned off by the idea of less Sidekicks / limit of 1. You kinda need to yeild here and think very long term. Look at the gameplay right now and ask yourself if its enjoyable enough to retain players by making them feel frustrated everytime they need to shoot down wave after wave of ai drones in a pvp match.  Dont just defend sidekicks because it gives you a way to counter other weapons. There are so many ways that can be achieved.

 This issue is more complex than a simple damage nerf. Its a philosophy of creating fun game play. Its not easy to develop games and balance it for everyone equally. 

We need to stand behind the devs as a team, its everyone responsibility to be objective even if it means you lose out on some changes. You do this for the long term success of the game.

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Get ready folks for new upcomming changes where Quantum will have 16 energy....))) Those crowds of 4x sidekicks will return to kick our 6o'clock :002:

Edited by TommySharks
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On 2017. 10. 20. at 6:02 PM, Spaceboy_uk said:

Turrets I think are fine - they're stationary so much easier to target and destroy. Multi-turrets are annoying sure, but don't feel "broken".

Aerial drones I think are okay too - maybe a bit too much damage as 3 drones can quickly tear you to pieces.

 

Main issue is with sidekicks - they're too small, too maneuverable, and put out too much damage.  I like the idea of limiting their range away from their host as this keeps them "defensive" and give you half a chance of attacking the owner before they race off away from battle again.

  • Make them slower
  • Less damage
  • Perhaps limit number of drones-per-cab

It's more than annoying when they put four behind you.

A sniping tank won't turn and accerelate fast enough to have a chance to take more than two in the 4 sec it takes them to rip you apart. No chance to damage enemy.

After turning you cant even risk bumping them with heavy rides, you run on them and die. Weight on you should deal damage, players and deployables too.

The sidekicks need everything on tis page ( aside from removal and 6 energy, though I wouldn't mind). Best would be some size and weight so they wouldn't go spinning in the air shooting

and also would be slower.

The target lock-on mentioned above is my favourite, it would solve hunting wheeldrone packs and turrets left behind you with enemy already ran away.

Would maybe balance fuzes too.

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I'm planning to stop to play pvp until drones will be balanced. I think I will only play for missions and copper. It's more than annoing. It's frustrating. You can destroy 8 drones, being ripped apart doing it, and take nothing. it's the worst time for enjoyng crossout since closed beta. The flying drone time was better, at least you can see the enemy player. Now you cant, you only see drones.

 

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From my experience: having 1 sidekick in addition to my Mandrake is more than enough. I would never want two of them lol :001: If you can install 2 of them then its better to install another Mandrake and give some hell to people xDDD

1x MD-3 Owl could serve as personal protection tool as well. 

Limitation to 1 turret per car will destroy them at all. I think turrets need to have +100% damage buff before they will get limited to 1 per car.

They have much shorter operation time comparing to drones (kicks or flyers both living longer).

 

p.s. My friends saying that on CBT there was limitation to 1 drone per car already so this wouldn't be something new...

Edited by TommySharks

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Drones should function like a deployable AI that requires an operator to designate a target (similar to missile locks) and pull the trigger for the drones to track and shoot.

Without player intervention, drones should be stationary and unresponsive. This will promote tactical usage of drones as the drone carrier still requires at least their vehicle being in line of sight to the enemy target.

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There are a few ways to solve this problem.

The first is adding arbitrary number limitations akin to the Clarinet. While this may be okay for the Sidekick, and maybe the air-drones, this would be horrible for turrets. They're already easy to kill (seriously, bring one shotgun. Just one. All you need. Shoot the turret, then the dropper), and in small numbers are almost irrelevent unless you catch enemies unawares (for example, they're fighting anyone that isn't you... and they don't have a team-mate around to just shoot the turrets.)

The second is adding 'accuracy'. Personally, I think this one is just silly. Their hangers are already huge, and the drones/turrets themselves each have downsides of their own.

My preference would be to lower drone/turret damage across the board (by maybe 30%?), but increase their health to keep them on the board longer.

I already feel like turrets could use some survivability. They already have the huge weakness of being stationary, and they aren't exactly hard to miss unless you aren't paying any attention to your surroundings (tunnel visioning enemies with cannon-fire, for example).

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haven't thought it entirely through, so please just take it as some brainstorming material.

 

 what if drones would deal additional damage to your highest damaging main weapon mounted? that would underline their role as a support weapon and make them less annoying while still being useful. 

you could be pretty creative with builds too. we would need to figure out some balanced numbers though.

 

maybe reduce the energy of drones to 1?

ps?

structure?

weight?

additional damge 30%? 

 

just for the sake of examples:

mount 1 druzhba + 10 drones. drones would deal 30% of the base damage of said druzhba.

mount 2 chord, 2 defender + 1 drone. the drone would deal 30% of the base damage of the defender.

mount 1 mandrake + 1 drone ... you get the meaning.

 

it would be harder to sealclub and make them even more useful at really high ps-ranges.

Edited by fancyinfusion

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Thinking about it further:

We need to think of drones and turrets separately.
Making a change to all of them as a whole is not such a good idea.
Heck, we need to think of Sidekicks and Falcons/Owls (we will call fliers) seperately.

Sidekicks go out and do damage while the user can be somewhere nearby.
Fliers act like a Caucacus, except they're easier to hit. This is okay.
Fuzes are one shot wonders.
Turrets are stationary defenses.

For the most part, Fliers are fine.
Most of the problem is with Sidekicks and Turrets.

Many want an arbitrary limit to be applied to all drones/turrets, but I don't think this is necessary.
Instead, we need to make it so that boating them isn't over the top.

Firstly, we need to do something about the main problems.

(For the record, a balance pass is not the only solution to the problem. I'll suggest a few alternatives at the end)

Sidekicks:
1) Damage: Lower it by 40%. With this, they become a nuisance. Alone, they make for a useful support object. As a group, they stay fierce but not AS fierce.
This way players can take one, two or boat them as they please without dominating the competition.

3) Duration: Reduce it by 15 seconds. Default, they currently last for 30 seconds, but there is nothing 'tactical' about that. You just dump and run. Maybe share some armour, if you care to.
With a reduction in duration, they can't just be activated early and left to their own devices. Sidekicks move quickly enough to reposition, and falcons/owls stick with the player. The faster the player moves, the faster the flier moves. This is fine.

2) Sidekick Health: Increase it by 25%. Sidekicks are currently too easy to remove from the battlefield. Right now, they do a lot of damage to compensate, and even last for 30 odd seconds if they aren't focused. If we reduce the damage and duration, we need to give them something of worth to compensate. This makes them harder to remove by force. With the upcoming explosion changes, any weapon can focus the sidekicks down. It takes focus away from the actual players for a brief time, but this is okay. That's the general idea. Sidekicks become decoys of sort, and decoys are tactical whether you want them to be or not. If 25% is too little, you can always raise it until a better balance is found.

4) Cooldown: No change. Currently the cooldown for sidekicks (and I believe automated weapons in general) is 20 seconds. When matches can only ever be 3 minutes tops, 20 seconds is a long time to wait.
While bringing a sidekick boat as a support will still be very useful, the long cooldown and shorter sidekick duration should incentivize bringing a backup weapon without making boating them worthless.

5) Power Score: Increase to around 900. Why? Because they will still be ridiculous when multiple are taken in to low power play.
Anything to reduce the seal clubbing. We need new players, not to scare them off.

Sidekicks should be like mosquitoes. They fly around you being incredibly annoying. Maybe even distracting. Lets uh... lets ignore the potential diseases thing though. Sidekicks don't need DoTs.

 

Fliers:
Honestly? I haven't seen much call for much more than a little bit of balancing for fliers.
High damage, low health, and the inability to move away from the player that deployed them is a pretty nice balance.
They also have a fairly long cooldown, and the duration sometimes doesn't feel long enough.
Besides. One makes for a nice backup to a sidekick deployer.
That being said...
Power Score: Increase to around 700. Why? Same reason as with sidekicks.

 

Fuzes:
Currently, Fuzes last too long, are too easy to boat, and do disgusting damage.
I don't know what they're like in high power play, but I figure people move fast enough to avoid them, only getting hit if they aren't paying attention.
Fliers and Turrets can focus the Fuzes and make them a non-issue. Speed can also make them a non-issue.
Unfortunately, they can also be cloak-dumped at your feet.
Still, there is a change I'd consider.

Duration: Reduce by 20 seconds. They currently last for 30 seconds. While I'm sure that sending them out from a great distance is fun for the deployer, but it isn't fun for the opposing team, and it can be done with far too much safety.
This way they're more of a tactical deployable. Instead of aiming an explosive at the enemy via missiles or cannons, you let it loose to choose it's own target.
You either find a cover to deploy close to an enemy, or you move within firing range.
If a 10 second duration is too little, at the very least, reduce to 15 seconds.

Turrets:

For the most part, Turrets aren't so bad.
They're fairly easy to kill if you focus them, and if you focus them you can render a turret boater useless.
All it takes is someone with melee to just charge through and the turrets are gone.

The problems with turrets are in large numbers, and in lower power play.
However, we can't just nuke their damage or reduce them to 1-2 active at a time.

What we could do is similar to Sidekicks.

Damage: Reduce by 30%. Only 30%? Well, they are stationary. We can't just go giving them the full sidekick treatment. Alone they're a nice annoyance. In larger numbers, they won't obliterate an entire enemy team in seconds.

Turret Health: Increase by 25%. This makes them a bit more survivable, and still rewards clever placement without making them too crazy if you have to just dump and run.

With turrets, we want them to be area defenders without being potentially ridiculous at all power ratings.

Speaking of power ratings though...

Power Score: Increase to 750. This is just to help avoid seal clubbing, while not entirely removing turrets from low power play.
New players will have to learn to deal with them sooner or later. Sooner is better than later.

 

Alternatives:

There are ways to deal with this problem without having to change many, or any numbers.

Currently, the best two alternatives I can think of are in adding new tech to the Engineers (or another faction)

 

Anti-Drone Turret: This would be a point defense turret you place on your vehicle.
It would have a cone of fire, meaning you would have to think about placement (I'd say 120 degrees).
Within this cone of fire, the turret would automatically focus drones out to a certain range. I'd say about half the range of a deployed turret.
This way drones/turrets would still be useful at range, but dumping them behind an enemy would be less destructive.
I'd make it function more like a turreted shotgun than a machine-gun for range-sake.

Mini-EMP: This would be a short ranged, 20-30 second cooldown emp-blast that would disable (or destroy) all drones in the radius.
When I say short ranged, I mean very short ranged. Maybe the height of a truck door around the device itself (not around your whole vehicle, making careful placement actually matter.)
The device would be about as big as a car jack, and maybe take up 1 energy.
This would be especially useful against cloaked Fuze droppers.
Heck, maybe have it disable chameleon devices for 5-10 if players are hit, giving it multiple potential uses for it's long cooldown.
In this case, a disabled device would stop the device from being able to go on cooldown until the disabled status wears off.
This would reward good timing.

I'd suggest either giving it a 0.5 or 1 second charge up, or make it expand quickly out to range rather than instantly occur across the entire range at once.

 

Now, while it might feel necessary to take both of these, it really isn't. Heck, it isn't even necessary to take one of them unless drones/turrets screw up your entire build.

That said, even with these alternatives, some balance changes are still necessary to the drones/turrets themselves.
Heck, maybe even run the lot at once.

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Well something must be done to limit drons/turrents on the hosts. I just met a guy on battlefield that threw @ me 4 drones and after I took care of them he dropped 4 turrets... Imo These should be limited up to TWO let it be 2 drones, 2 turrets or 1 drone/1 turret but not more...

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to late gaijin I'm done, its taken to long to sort drones out. Your game has left a taste in my mouth that bad I was drinking bleach. I have just finished a 6 hour session on MY 2nd account and for 80% of the matches it was drones and they weren't the same players. I spent over £130 on packs on my first account , I guess you win that1. I was going to buy every  pack on my 2nd but na like I said I'm done good bye and thanks for ruining what beast of a game you had. RIP Crossout. Laters Gaijin may drones stalk you in your sleep XD

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Have you considered allowing player to choose weather they would face Drones/Turrets/Auto Aim Cannons or not as they select their matching process?

This could be advantageous to the game it would allow the developers to keep their beloved drones in the game and also allow a lot of lost players to return (please note 100% of my friends list have quit the game mostly because of drones.)

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I was told a balance patch was on the way, when they released the Halloween patch. 

 

Hopefully we have huge sweeping changes to Sidekicks and Automation in general, along with hovers. 

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21 hours ago, Theslimbee said:

Have you considered allowing player to choose weather they would face Drones/Turrets/Auto Aim Cannons or not as they select their matching process?

This could be advantageous to the game it would allow the developers to keep their beloved drones in the game and also allow a lot of lost players to return (please note 100% of my friends list have quit the game mostly because of drones.)

Give a couple of medals to this guy

 

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all kind of suggestion about drones ? ;) so i think about leaving this monster here :D 

22219855_1483597151725622_54275459498926

22218279_1483597155058955_14280126380736

you guys can discuss about it but just rememeber it's a prototype, an idea! :D

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On 10/31/2017 at 2:50 PM, Theslimbee said:

Have you considered allowing player to choose weather they would face Drones/Turrets/Auto Aim Cannons or not as they select their matching process?

This could be advantageous to the game it would allow the developers to keep their beloved drones in the game and also allow a lot of lost players to return (please note 100% of my friends list have quit the game mostly because of drones.)

I posted this in the suggestions area back on 10/10 but it hasn't made it out of pre-moderation yet:  "New Hybrid Game Mode".

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I think the drones/turrets/gun and bomb rc cars are all way too over powered. When you start getting to a certain level in this game you start running into arenas with people who use drones and such exclusively because they know they are over powered... If you watch the you tube video that I link here as evidence you'll see what I'm talking about. In the first part of the video I attack four different live players and kill 3 of them while only loosing 197 health. All while taking fire from player controlled auto cannons and machine guns. Then a fuse suicide RC car explodes near me and does 351 damage. Finally I attack another player and he drops a turret and flies up a drone, with in 6 seconds of his turret dropping my last 283 hit points are gone. The problem is, the drones don't miss and players do. I think player controlled guns should do a lot more damage then the drones do. The drones should do half or less damage in my opinion. They should only be supportive of the main guns, not used as main guns in my opinion. I think the player with more aim, stick control and driving skill should have the advantage in this game. Not the player that knows how to time his cool downs and just hits a button then runs from the battle.

 

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ATTACK DRONES
Status: Balanced
Benefits: Very high DPS, auto-aim, mobile with owner, High angle of attack
Weaknesses: Must enter and stay in combat to use them, short range, must be fast (low armor) to use them, requires open roof to launch drones, long cooldown, easy to destroy if targeted

ATTACK TURRETS
Status: Balanced
Benefits: Very High DPS, auto-aim, can be dropped and block a location, good range
Weaknesses: Stationary, can be run into, run away from, blocked by friendlies, blocked by terrain, friendlies run into them all the time, long cooldown

MISSILE DRONE/MISSILE TURRET
Status: Underpowered
Weaknesses: Their rate of fire is so low that it is hard to fully utilize them. Higher PS. Larger size (for turret). More energy.
Suggestions: If their rate of fire was accelerated I think they would be good. However, they might be improved with explosion mechanics change.

SIDEKICK
Status: Overpowered
Benefits: Very High DPS, auto-aim, mobile, good range, very hard to destroy because of movement, roams away from user and operates independently
Weaknesses: Don't go where you want them to, long cooldown
Suggestions: if you want them to be far-roaming mobile guards and distractions, they need to have VERY LOW DPS. It takes too much decision making from players. Sidekicks should be like their name implies, just a sidekick. Robin is a sidekick of Batman and is a very minor version of him. People should launch sidekicks to harass and distract and help out. Not to obliterate teams. I don't know how this works currently, but if they did very low dps, but you could also see through their radar just as if your own radar/radio were hooked up to the sidekick, they would be excellent scouts. Like in Minority Report when they send out the drones to scan the apartments. Another option: Have Sidekicks be pure support. Make enemies near them move 20% slower or have 10% longer cooldowns, non-stacking. Make then annoying instead of deadly. Kind of like a superhero sidekick.

FUZE
Status: Underpowered and Balanced
Benefits: Very High Burst Damage, auto-aim, mobile, hard to destroy because of movement, roams away from user and operates independently
Weaknesses: Don't go where you want them to, long cooldown, relatively easy to destroy, explosion timer, UNDERPOWERED versus Hovers
Suggestions: I see these as the Epic version of Sidekicks. Just like Missile Turrets and Missile Drones. You should be able to scan/radio through them like Sidekicks. If their target is a hover, they should have a 1 second explosion delay. The explosion mechanic changes might make these a lot better. Their radius is the largest explosion in the game (as far as I know).

As far as I see things, Sidekicks are broken. Sidekicks should be support. Fuzes are almost done. Missile turrets and drones are rather lackluster.

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new drone suggestion -

Horn Spamming Seeker Missile Drone. (HSSMD)

  1. free drone that fires a missile the flies directly at the target spamming their HORN,
  2. no energy cost, one per cab,
  3. can't be shot down or destroyed, 
  4. it never misses, unlimited flight time, passes through all obstacles 
  5. it activates automatically after 10 seconds of constant horn spam
  6. the target horn is instantly destroyed for the rest of the battle
  7. the target is left Horn Muted, covered in glitter
  8. if hit in three consecutive battles by a HSSMD you friends and enemies can no longer hear your horn until you press Alt F4, after which only you can hear it for 24 hours

I know i can mute horns, it's just that they do sound cool, they can be a useful distraction or attention seeking mechanic & we don't have enough drones

(this ^^ suggestion was just for shiggles) 

__________________________________________________________________-

As for Hovers and Fuzes, they should attract each other, if the target is a hover enabled build then the Fuze becomes heat seaking, launching itself on micro hovers and attaches itself by unicorn magic (Magnetism) to that hover  when within ~10 squares, and kapow, wham o, bazinga then fuze go POP

=-EDIT -=  PvP MatchMaking need to be looked at for balancing each team so drone spam isn't a thing,

 2 drone players per team = meh, compared to 4+ drone players per team = OP (salty)

I see 16 or more enemy dots on the map, means I see players leave to re-queue, i see player not want to play against those known spammers, or more recently seeing friendly players leave. Why?

Drones & AI can carry a team to victory or it also remove the chance for your team to score, even stealing kills, spoiling tactical choices, getting stuck on a friendly turret etc. AI fire can't STOP shooting to let a friendly get away from enemies explosive death throes,

explosion changes due soon (nov 2017) will have an impact on friendlies/self by enemy death explosions 

Edited by SpeedLocked
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