ARES_IV

Blue Engines are unbalanced

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The balancing between engines leaves still much to be desired. Even for superheavy designs, the Dun Horse is a vastly superior choice while even the theoretical unsuitable Hardcore offers significant improvement while not requiring of the now even more precious energy for heavy designs.

 

Especially the Razorback, which should be the main engine for super heavy designs offers severly dissapointing results and cannot be recommended under any circumstances.

 

Vehicle design:

screenshot-171126-131734.png

 

Dun Horse - requires 24 seconds to reach the water
screenshot-171126-131810.png

 

Razorback - requires 44 seconds to reach the water

screenshot-171126-132002.png

 

 

Without engine - requires 73 seconds to reach the water

screenshot-171126-132323.png

 

 

Hardcore (no screenshot) - requires 55 seconds to reach the water

 

 

 

 

The expectation would be that Hardcore is best for light designs, Dun Horse is best for medium designs and Razorback is best for heavy designs, except that this is not how it works right now.

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Well...I've delved in engines a lot lately and they're easier to understand, but still confusing.

+Speed doesn't help track users because the tracks hardcap speed. Your vehicle is suffering from tonnage issues, so of course the Dun Horse will give the greatest boost. If you added 2 wheels, however, that likely wouldn't be the case. The Razorback helps with mass limit, but you can't reach your mass limit with only 2 armored tracks. If you had a bunch of wheels or 2 armored tracks and some other tracks/wheels, then +weight would matter.

Here is an easy analogy.

Carapace over tonnage:
6ZdHo4Q.jpg

Tonnage corrected with Dun Horse. Now much faster.

muWzm23.jpg

Added a bunch more weight in the form of 2 more armored tracks. This "corrects" the tonnage, but now we can't move at all.

Sq1KJbt.jpg

Dun Horse can't help because tonnage is no longer the problem. Weight is.

tmnnbXK.jpg

Razorback is now useful. Increasing max weight so we can move. We aren't fast, but that's what happens when your tonnage is so close to max weight.

vcBeYtc.jpg


Tonnage is another word for wheels. Or tracks. Or legs. Or hovers. There are 2 engines that provide Tonnage. Dun Horse and Cheetah. If you DON'T want to add more wheels, you can reach your tonnage requirements (potentially) using those engines. However, they provide very little weight allowance. So my "low" PS cannon builds with only 2 armored tracks use a Dun Horse. Because I don't want to add more wheels/tracks. But my super high PS cannon builds with a zillion tracks, use Colossus for the extra weight.

I do believe Colossus and Golden Eagle should provide greater weight. I made a post on this in suggestions but it hasn't been approved. /shakes fist.

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Is nice to have clues about all this stuff. Now is really hard to find the equilibrium cabin+engine+wheels, because it is really counterintuitive.

Yesterday I replaced a Jawbreaker with a Humpback in a medium-weight build for raids, expecting better handling, and susprisingly it became slower and less responsive. :((

... then I replaced some wheels with heavier version, and acceleration went up! :o

It seems that for each cabin, you have an optimum tonnage capacity (which can be reached via wheels and engine), and at this optimum you can have a lot more of mass with decent handling. It would be great if someone with access to different wheels, engines and cabins did some testing and published a guide. Grindind just to discover you got something you don't want is a bit deceiving.

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51 minutes ago, Mygor said:

It seems that for each cabin, you have an optimum tonnage capacity (which can be reached via wheels and engine), and at this optimum you can have a lot more of mass with decent handling. It would be great if someone with access to different wheels, engines and cabins did some testing and published a guide. Grindind just to discover you got something you don't want is a bit deceiving.

This sums up what I believe are some of the biggest issues with 0.8.20, it's forcing people to think complex thoughts when optimising builds.  Not everyone is prepared to do this.

We can sit here and discuss the topic, what it means, and how to optimise builds for mass, tonnage, speed, acceleration, or any other parameter we choose to consider.

But ultimately, before very long, they'll be someone along to complain, "My brain hurts.  Not fair.  Make easier"

 

And if players with access to promo accounts were selected because they would think about the game and use their access to better others understanding and enjoyment by experimenting with the mechnics.. well, that just wouldn't be internetz, would it?

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people are given promo accounts only if they are youtubers, or on a special occasion (special contests).

as an owner of a promotional account, i could run some tests.

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12 minutes ago, TheCatPlaysGamez said:

people are given promo accounts only if they are youtubers, or on a special occasion (special contests).

as an owner of a promotional account, i could run some tests.

You got a promo account? 

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18 minutes ago, TheCatPlaysGamez said:

people are given promo accounts only if they are youtubers, or on a special occasion (special contests).

as an owner of a promotional account, i could run some tests.

The protocol is pretty straight forward.

  1. Take a base chassis - say 2x 8x4 lightweight
  2. Add a cab
  3. Add movement parts
  4. Add ballast until the tonnage turns yellow, note the numbers and the speed/acceleration bars
  5. Add more ballast until the tonnage turns red, note the numbers and the speed/acceleration bars
  6. Repeat 4-5 with different movement parts
  7. Repeat 3-6 with different engines
  8. Repeat 3-7 with different cabs

.. it's just tedious.

I do this in a more limited way to mass optimise each of my builds.

A library of optimal combinations would be useful to all build designers.

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It's actually easy, you silly faces. When you exit builder or just looking at your car in the lobby, when you press i to bring up the info tab, mouseover the tonnage.

This is with a colossus engine. 6470 max tonnage before slowdown. 8500 max weight.

yGnFUaE.jpg

Dun horse engine. 6499 max tonnage (when your max tonnage > max weight, then it will set your tonnage at max weight -1). 6500 max weight.

xqVU8Y4.jpg

Red Hot. 6470 tonnage. 7000 max weight. This is the same as the Colossus because Red Hot and Colossus don't modify tonnage. However, the max weight is different and current tonnage is different because Colossus adds more max weight but is heavier than Red Hot. Thus it has higher max weight but adds more to the current tonnage.

Suk7Mqi.jpg

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6 minutes ago, dukerustfield said:

t's actually easy, you silly faces. When you exit builder or just looking at your car in the lobby, when you press i to bring up the info tab, mouseover the tonnage.

I'd never seen that before.  Why they can't just display the tonnage in the info box directly and make it easier for us..

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You bring up interesting points Duke Rustfield. (fun fact, I always read and thought about it as "Dukerust Field" :o. BTW I am ARES 4 (IV is latin for 4) :002:

 

I decided to make further tests with my design by adding two racing wheels steering to it:

 

 

screenshot-171127-155445.png


screenshot-171127-155502.png


screenshot-171127-160129.png

 

 

I also tried 4 Racing Tires ST and they put the vehicle over the mass limit making the Razorback mandatory, although this still isnt too good news for it because with 4 racing tires ST the designs mobility is at a snails pace and uncompetive.

 

I still think that Razorback should help with tonnage at least somewhat. It seems to me that before you run out of tonnage/movement parts the Dun Horse is simple better overall and the top speed increase is quite notable even on the Carapace - which is the slowest cabin in the game - not to mention the acceleration. The Razorback might be capable of pulling above weight limit but the resulting mobility is a far cry from being competive.

 

 

 

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Ok, i do think that all engine should add tonnage. I explain. The ones which don’t add any tonnage, you need to lower your weight, to maintain speed, or add mouvement part, which take away most of your acceleration. So yeah, nowadays it’s a bit more confusing to make build, cause some engine gives you amazing tonnage, eg dun and cheetah, when all the others just don’t. 

I think it would be better if all the 1 Pt energy engine could gave you tonnage, while the energy free don’t . Simple and clear.

 

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I made a suggestion post about engines here. Please add your thoughts.

I didn't really go into blue engines but concentrate on epics. If every engine gave tonnage, there would be little difference between cabins except energy. And everyone would use Quantum. Already Quantum and Cheetah is probably the most popular combination at high PS. It allows you to carry a great deal of weight, have tons of energy, increasing cooldown, etc.

I think Razorback/Golden Eagle/Colossus should all add a lot more weight. That would allow the heavier cabins to keep adding wheels and up their tonnage. They will be slow, but they'll be able to carry a lot more in terms of armor.

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i got a razor back, ( the power + was noticeable), sold it, dun horse wins. Fusioned it wins better, 

the load/tonnage thing with relation to heavy builds seems to be the missing link in the 0.8.2 cab changes, heavy cab should be able to be heavy structure wise, 

it would be nice to see

light cabs - light engines (rare/epic) Hardcore, Red Hot,

Med cabs - Med engines (rare/epic) Dun Horse, Cheetah,

Heavy cabs - heavy engines (rare/epic) razorback, Colossus, Golden Eagle,

with associated bonuses with matching cab combo, (~25% load/tonnage if matched?)

 

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