PobesneliMaks

The most OVERPOWERED item in the game, the source of every single OP build that has ever been played in Crossout

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I'd love some way to hide electronically from enemies. Even as new module, rather than replacement for current one.

As user of epic radar-detector (+radio), MG and fast car, I don't find stealth that OP. Just slightly annoying.

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Do most people equip Chameleon to:

(A)avoid GMs/Drones/Turrets, or

(B)to sneak up on and ambush the enemy?

From what I've seen, I'd say the latter. Yes, it works great to deal with auto-aim nonsense for 10 seconds, but I see people using it offensively much more often.

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On ‎14‎.‎2‎.‎2018 at 6:06 AM, Duckett9 said:

Do most people equip Chameleon to:

(A)avoid GMs/Drones/Turrets, or

(B)to sneak up on and ambush the enemy?

From what I've seen, I'd say the latter. Yes, it works great to deal with auto-aim nonsense for 10 seconds, but I see people using it offensively much more often.

(C)    escaping abilty ?    

Stealth is overally too good in 1 enegy point.     

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3 hours ago, Santonik said:

(C)    escaping abilty ?    

Stealth is overally too good in 1 enegy point.     

For 1 energy its much more efficient to escape hurricane spammers than buying a spark

depending on my build i use chameleon to escape missiles more than anything else

 

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1 hour ago, MasteRof69 said:

For 1 energy its much more efficient to escape hurricane spammers than buying a spark

depending on my build i use chameleon to escape missiles more than anything else

 

yea especially with the amount of hover hurricanes atm, though it has been worse ^^

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Has this video been posted yet? It shows that hovers are 100% invisible past about 5m away from your car. Same goes for wheeled cars. Im pretty sure you cant even see tire tracks being made by enemies cars past a certain distance. Make cloaked vehicles be all blurry and weird looking at all distances and cloak would be fine. As it is now its pretty busted and over powered. 1 energy is fine, it just shouldnt make you totally invisible.

 

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On 2/28/2018 at 5:12 AM, Crunk_Prime said:

Has this video been posted yet? It shows that hovers are 100% invisible past about 5m away from your car. Same goes for wheeled cars. Im pretty sure you cant even see tire tracks being made by enemies cars past a certain distance. Make cloaked vehicles be all blurry and weird looking at all distances and cloak would be fine. As it is now its pretty busted and over powered. 1 energy is fine, it just shouldnt make you totally invisible.

 

One thing you have to remember is. Tread/wheel marks, Dust and even Exhaust. Are not shown. if you lower your Graphic's to a point or turn off certain Graphic settings.

This is Kinda handy. When you don't want to be Blinded or loss line of sight by smoke effects. But on the other hand. :/ You probably can't see a cloaker well.

And in that Video. He had low, or lower Graphic settings. You can tell. when he uses his scope. His own ride's texture is in Pixels.

Edit:

after rechecking. It's not in pixels. But you can tell. it's a lower res/Grade of graphics.

Edited by Eldren24484
mistake.

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23 hours ago, XB1_A_Wild_Kush said:

This wasn't a issue when it was 2 energy and lasted twice as long. Or lack of a engine that reduced 25% cool down using a engine. 

That is some thing to consider. Making Cloaker Modules that way. And also make it so The Cloaker Module is some thing else. So things that Buff Modules don't effect it. Though I would assume there would be a New cabin down the line. That Buffs Cloaking hardware. Which would be kinda cool. As long as there was a Balance to it And Cloaking.

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iam a melee player since cb. I use chameleon alot for obvious reasons. seeing chameleon equipped on basically any build just shows how good it is. I  honestly wouldnt mind if it would get removed from the game. Its getting annoying that literally at more than 50% of the builds in higher ps use a chameleon. Also  Chameleon and plasma guns make this game look unauthentic. It says electronics are extremly rare  after the apocalypse but there are these meantioned extreme hightech weapons/modules. Hmmm hmmm........

Edited by LittleBird2
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Make stealthing a function of how big your vehicle is. Not weight,  surface area. Your rig takes up so many square construction units? Then it can only stealth for so long. Make it count weapon/wheel size and exposed welding points. Also part size where welds are not possible. Can even put a little meter in building showing what part combination gets longest stealth time.

Hovers try to maximize their armor over a larger surface area to protect from explosions, then chameleon can't stealth as long for someone them than some one who builds as compact as possible. It makes cannon snipers think again if they have a BIG TONK to snipe with, but will still block missile lock ons and can conceal long enough for a surprise snipe.

It makes reduced effectiveness for spears because the weapons are so long, but stealth better for them than an even bigger more survivable car so can be somewhat effective, just not so much as before unless they can reduce surface area making them use possible even less armor and easier to explode.

 

Then only people who get most possible benefit of cameleon then are compact shotgun/machine gun cars for who it would be least annoying to fight against who also arguably need stealth the most anyhow.

 

This is a good compromise. Big fat tonks can still use it for sniping to an extent, and most importantly break missile locks, smaller more compact dedicated snipers and not big heavyweight Brawlers can use it more effectively. Hovers with big cannons, hurricanes, or even scorpions and spread out armor get less stealth time now as hovers and those weapons themselves have such a big surface area.

Spear users now have to make their builds more compact to compensate for the big surface area of so many spears potentially making it more difficult to set off spears, especially ones who leave their generator hanging off the back just to add more spears. Increased surface area/ volume inhibits prolonged stealth. Especially since light armor pieces they use take up more space than medium armor.

 

Then the only people who enjoy full stealth benefits are people with tiny shotguns/machine guns with medium/heavy armor.

Less annoying this way right guys? Biggest problem with stealth is high alpha damage thingies, which are big anyways, then we can possibly make spears one more building block longer or something to increase surface area again? Work out the details as it gets implemented. It doesn't unfairly help big TONK, it makes building a spear car more time consuming and use more thinking, but can still work almost as good but not too good. It mainly helps people with tiny guns who lack alpha damage that makes stealth so annoying.

Makes sense right? The module has to make your surface invisible, so bigger surface = less time, and most of the annoying stuff it works with has a large surface area anyway. Maybe can make it so it also counts part distance from the module itself and that can also reduce time.

 

Then if people really need stealth sooo  bad we can add a module using one energy that slightly increases stealth time. This way people must plan their craft for stealth instead of EVERYONE just using it because they have spare energy.

Edited by Afrozionist
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1 hour ago, Afrozionist said:

ig fat tonks can still use it for sniping to an extent, and most importantly break missile locks, smaller more compact dedicated snipers and not big heavyweight Brawlers can use it more effectively. Hovers with big cannons, hurricanes, or even scorpions and spread out armor get less stealth time now as hovers and those weapons themselves have such a big surface area.

Makes sense right? The module has to make your surface invisible, so bigger surface = less time, and most of the annoying stuff it works with has a large surface area anyway. Maybe can make it so it also counts part distance from the module itself and that can also reduce time.

but I love having a bit fat tonk disappear for 10 seconds =(

It's not THAT unrealistic =D

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1 minute ago, sam93931 said:

but I love having a bit fat tonk disappear for 10 seconds =(

It's not THAT unrealistic =D

Sam, your feedback here is important, if that was implemented it would affect you the most. Have any ideas to change it?

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Just now, Afrozionist said:

Sam, your feedback here is important, if that was implemented it would affect you the most. Have any ideas to change it?

More seriously, I would change the purpose of radar, decrease or even remove his wall hack ability, but allow to show stealth guy on the radar IF line of sight. 

Imo the stealth module itself might not be the problem, its the ability to know when to use it before peeking because of the wall hack radar.

Or once you use your stealth, your radar is off.

Or again, give the ability for scope (or just the purple one) to see stealth vehicle when you're zoom in, that would give this module a true purpose for its energy cost.

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5 minutes ago, sam93931 said:

 

Or again, give the ability for scope (or just the purple one) to see stealth vehicle when you're zoom in, that would give this module a true purpose for its energy cost.

Instead, I think this scope should by default show explosive parts of all crafts, invisible or not.

Then you are using this scope, and you see only a generator driving across the map really fast :DD

6 minutes ago, sam93931 said:

More seriously, I would change the purpose of radar, decrease or even remove his wall hack ability, but allow to show stealth guy on the radar IF line of sight. 

I like this idea, it will punish people who do not pay attention, allowing for sneak attacks, but reward people who are aware, and it is very simple and easy to implement

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Stealth is mostly fine on a competitive level where monitoring the map appropriately with radars tells you where even invisible players are at any time, but against players in public nobody really pays attention to that one guy with 10 lancelots disappearing from the map  because you don't even know the enemy team has one. The only fix I'd suggest is something to make it easier for all-random games to counter such as a blip on the map when somebody cloaks.

Of course, it semi-counters missiles and drones and autotrargetting but that's no biggie. Major downside is that you can't really use it mid-combat and it's easy to shoot off, bulky.

Honestly, radar-detectors are far more OP. They have a ton of durability that actually means you use them as protection, they only cost 1 energy and they basically reveal the entirety of the map and all enemy positions. It's only not complained about much because only one a team really works.

Also, hovers are still pretty damn annoying for use with scorpions, but I'm mostly just annoyed about the fact that scorpions STILL penetrate Aegis shields. Also that you can't really use melee attacks against hovers until a teammate takes them down.

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4 hours ago, Kamao said:

Stealth is mostly fine on a competitive level where monitoring the map appropriately with radars tells you where even invisible players are at any time, but against players in public nobody really pays attention to that one guy with 10 lancelots disappearing from the map  because you don't even know the enemy team has one. The only fix I'd suggest is something to make it easier for all-random games to counter such as a blip on the map when somebody cloaks.

Of course, it semi-counters missiles and drones and autotrargetting but that's no biggie. Major downside is that you can't really use it mid-combat and it's easy to shoot off, bulky.

Honestly, radar-detectors are far more OP. They have a ton of durability that actually means you use them as protection, they only cost 1 energy and they basically reveal the entirety of the map and all enemy positions. It's only not complained about much because only one a team really works.

Also, hovers are still pretty damn annoying for use with scorpions, but I'm mostly just annoyed about the fact that scorpions STILL penetrate Aegis shields. Also that you can't really use melee attacks against hovers until a teammate takes them down.

Yesterday spear user kill me manytimes. Cant counter it. No matter what i doing. I have  powerful radar (detector).

Still fast spear car can suprise. STEALTH distance travel is bigger than MINIMAP. So minimap is useless.  That moment i playing slow build. 

What you thinking double mammoth player who using STEALTH.  BOOOM. 1 player back to the garage.

 About 3 day ago. I make fast fuze carrier whit stealth.  Enemy cant reach me.  I can doing pretty much what i want  in PVP. Thank to the too good 1 energy. 

Whitout STEALTH this game is better balance.   

1 energy can COUNTER too many things.    

Radar detector help to tactics but it is still totally useless against good stealth player. 

Almoust all TOP vehicles using stealth.  

Radar detector isnt so common. 

My experiences coming 10k PS games. 

 

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Stealth is powerful and there is no way to counter it. almost all using steatlh because you can avoid any AI weapons easily. just enought pressing one button and avoiding damage.

second thing. you can go close to enemies pretty easy when using heavy machine.

third thing. you can spam stealth... 

 

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doesnt matter if ur checking ur minimap and have a radar detector, people with invis will always have the advantage of shooting u first from very close range.with a shotgun build they can rip ur weapons in a single burst.i run light armored hover builds and the only builds kill me are invis ones.to counter invis totaly u need to have ur own invis and purple radar so when they use their invis you use ur own and wait for them to appear.but they might be too smart to use their invis from pretty far and then they get close to front line then ur dead if u didnt use ur invis preemptively.

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what if we could have a legendary radar with 2 engry requ. which detects stealth within lets say 100 -200 meters?

Edited by LittleBird2
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46 minutes ago, LittleBird2 said:

what if we could have a legendary radar with 2 engry requ. which detects stealth within lets say 100 -200 meters?

Yesss! Lets lock the only counter to an epic hardware besides paranoid minimap checking to a legendary worth 2000 coins! 

 

On a more serious note. I can't deny what the op said in his post. It is a fact that Chameleon's have been a part of every op build that caused weapons to get nerfed, kinda like the hovers too with how they make hurricanes and tsunamis so advantageous. Lancers NEVER run without chameleons. I see the majority of players pairing them with weapons that are optimal for trading shots, and it really is out of hand. I say damn the cloaks to hell. Replace them with passive radar jammers. Add mechanics for foliage concealment and put more foliage on the maps. Add a camouflage net that you drape over your vehicle that takes the hue and texture of the map's terrain, would be an amazing epic item for the Steppenwolves faction, and a new one at that.

Edited by Renamed71622
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6 hours ago, Renamed71622 said:

Yesss! Lets lock the only counter to an rare hardware besides paranoid minimap checking to a legendary worth 2000 coins! 

Fixed that for ye! ;)

 

 

BTW I couldn't decide what is more OP: stealth or radar/detector. So I use both :016: All those hurricane hovers pushed me to that.

Edited by CalenLoki

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9 hours ago, Renamed71622 said:

Yesss! Lets lock the only counter to an epic hardware besides paranoid minimap checking to a legendary worth 2000 coins! 

 

On a more serious note. I can't deny what the op said in his post. It is a fact that Chameleon's have been a part of every op build that caused weapons to get nerfed, kinda like the hovers too with how they make hurricanes and tsunamis so advantageous. Lancers NEVER run without chameleons. I see the majority of players pairing them with weapons that are optimal for trading shots, and it really is out of hand. I say damn the cloaks to hell. Replace them with passive radar jammers. Add mechanics for foliage concealment and put more foliage on the maps. Add a camouflage net that you drape over your vehicle that takes the hue and texture of the map's terrain, would be an amazing epic item for the Steppenwolves faction, and a new one at that.

Yeah lets create more very unique  and very powerful weapons/equipment as legendary because average ppl who dont have many coins /money might have fun when itgets released as an epic item. On a serious note i think you were right that the legendary radar i suggested isnt an solution. Chameleon needs to be changed completely / go away

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What you need is scorpio weakness. It's easy to get the top 20 in order to get rid of the machines. There is no difference between the blue purple gold weapons. 5 Defender will beat the 2 reaper, but the 4 tackler will always win against the reaping. What makes the most expensive weapons ????

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-targeting and shooting

-evading cannon shots and lance builds

-chasing after the enemy

 all player actions are coming from the fact that they can see the enemy

Even the so called infra-red homing missiles do not track the cloaked players.

 

That means that invisibility gives absolute advantage to the player that uses it, as there is nothing of practical value that can reliably detect a cloaked player.

And the price of this absolute advantage is ridiculously low at 1 point of energy and a negligible mass.

 

My proposals to balance the issue -

1- increase the mass of the cloak

2- either increase drastically the energy required to 4-5-6 or make it so that one invisibility module covers only 90 degrees of the car so if you want a full invisibility you have to install 4 modules (at 1 energy each) for front,back,left,right

3-all active radars should detect cloaked vehicles and the energy expenditure for them should be equal or less to that of the cloak

 

 

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