Comrade_Tiki

Dead players commandeering bots

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I've discussed this with other people, and one player noticed a possible way to sabotage their team by self-destructing early.

To safeguard against misuse, players can either:

  • Be limited to commandeering only 1 bot (each) per round, or
  • Be ineligible/unable to commandeer if they have self-destructed.
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A long time later, the bot problem still exists, and I still think this idea still has merit.  Thanks to Rasika_iceman for re-conceiving of this suggestion, and reminding me of this long-forgotten thread.

(I will update the interface mockup tomorrow, as it seems my old attachment was deleted.)

 

Opening topic for discussion and player feedback. :014:

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7 hours ago, Comrade_Tiki said:

A long time later, the bot problem still exists, and I still think this idea still has merit.  Thanks to Rasika_iceman for re-conceiving of this suggestion, and reminding me of this long-forgotten thread.

(I will update the interface mockup tomorrow, as it seems my old attachment was deleted.)

 

Opening topic for discussion and player feedback. :014:

most welcome :)  looking for something good to happen in game  near future :006j:

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The only problem is: since the first players to die are often the worst ones in the round, it means that there is a very high chance that the bot will be controled by a player that will hinder its effiiciency...

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Just now, lucashc90 said:

The only problem is: since the first players to die are often the worst ones in the round, it means that there is a very high chance that the bot will be controled by a player that will hinder its effiiciency...

ya 80%  chance to be the dumbest player to get control first ... but ateast he will do more useful things  other than just hitting a wall / staying at own base and break dancing  and not shooting at enemies at all  :005j:

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Leave bots alone, just last night Paul was MVP and I was second place. Bots work just fine when you help them. You see 4 Bots on both teams, you better help those Bots in the first 60 seconds if you want to win. All night, with my 450 meter detector I was able to coax the bots into doing well or ram them back into the fight when they try to run away. Use the bots to your team's advantage.

Anyway, I do not need some poor dead player getting control over my bot and deciding to run away or go suicide.

I do not need some dead lancer with 2 kills getting rewarded by gaining control over my bot. You want to race in and kill a few enemies and die? Then sit there and spectate and be bored.

Peace

Edited by LordTutor
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Just now, LordTutor said:

Leave bots alone, just last night Paul was MVP and I was second place. Bots work just fine when you help them. You see 4 Bots on both teams, you better help those Bots in the first 60 seconds if you want to win. All night, with my 450 meter detector I was able to coax the bots into doing well or ram them back into the fight when they try to run away. Use the bots to your team's advantage.

Anyway, I do not need some poor dead player getting control over my bot and deciding to run away or go suicide.

I do not need some dead lancer with 2 kills getting rewarded by gaining control over some dead bot. You want to race in and kill a few enemies and die? Then sit there and spectate and be bored.

Peace

i agree some bots are doing their job more than enough  but have you ever seen this this type of bots( photo below ) getting a kill ? screenshot-190603-220957.jpg.7a128c92eb7

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I like this idea a lot. Bots are very strong if not killed early at high PS. And i feel like commandeering a bot when you die would be an awesome way for a player to "get back in" and help the team win. I can see it having the possibility of getting out of hand though. Would like to see this tested!

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17 minutes ago, Rasika_iceman said:

i agree some bots are doing their job more than enough  but have you ever seen this this type of bots( photo below ) getting a kill ? 

THEY DO! Its usually when they are beat up in a way the reaper loses its surrounding armor and starts to aim more freely. They are mean mofos at a medium distance if facing their targets.

Edited by lucashc90
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Since we are talking about bots AND my AI sugestion was never aproved I'm posting this here so devs (and you my dear players) can see and comment on it:

On 6/3/2019 at 12:39 PM, lucashc90 said:

Make bots more aware of their surroundings, know their own firing angle better, not charge into enemy hordes and ignore 4 people shooting at it just so it can go at a degunned and dewheeled bot. They tried to compensate for their cons by giving the bots perfect aim and follow their target to the end of the world but, as the game gets more diverse, these "bypasses" becomes increasenly outdated.

You don't need to give a triple wasp bot a perfect aim to one-shot your frame across the map to make bots a force to be recon with in PvP.

If we can see if the firing angle is impaired when placing a gun on our cars, why the bots ignores these limits and keep shooting over the enemy instead of turning around to aim better?

Randomize their firing cone based on weapon accuracy and their movement speed. Divide their strategy by the type of weapons they use (stand still away from danger if long ranged weapons, charge the enemy WHILE IN GROUP if close range weapons). Better routing (lost count of bots I had to push so they wouldn't get stuck face-first on walls in Old Town). Make them access ally proximity so they don't act alone to die in vain. Make them  recognise levels of treat, knowing how to ignore degunned/imobile enemies and change their aggro to higher priority targets (like target a higher DPS build or drones shooting at them over fleeing players). Make them enter a fleeing state if significant structural damage is dealt in a short period of time (like being sniped at distance while capping).

Also, bots should consider obeying player commands like "attack", "help" and "regroup". More than once a bot passed by me while I was flipped and completely ignored me... Battlefield 2 would let you command bots if you were the team commander and that game was launched in 2005.

 

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6 minutes ago, lucashc90 said:

THEY DO! Its usually when they are beat up in a way the reaper loses its surrounding armor and starts to aim more freely. They are mean mofos at a medium distance if facing their targets.

well anyway what i seen mostly is getting killed even before fires a single shot :005j:..
not only this .. there is perfect bot builds .. but just because it controlled by a AI .. it becomes useless mostly (ex: 7k-8k ps range shotgun bot with 3 high damage shotguns is a perfect build but it never  chases a player. just shooting who is close and going to enemy base only. sometimes stays at own base .. not even moving, that sometimes i kill that bot with 1 hit  by tusk cabin easily because easy to aim and ramm )

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There are several Contact 2M on the robot.
I want to control the robot to form Leviathan

Do we care about stupid teammates?
I used the Explosive Spear and Harvester suicide attack!
Grab the death before the stupid teammates get control!
Even organize a suicide attack team to gain the most control!

Oil barrel on the robot body,
Can the operator get oil?

Edited by wiehahuo2
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I have re-uploaded the interface mockup to my original post. (Maybe "Press [R]" could be replaced with "Hold [R]" in order to prevent mistakes.)

3 hours ago, wiehahuo2 said:


Do we care about stupid teammates?
I used the Explosive Spear and Harvester suicide attack!
Grab the death before the stupid teammates get control!
Even organize a suicide attack team to gain the most control!

If that happens too much, a need to weaken spears becomes obvious.

3 hours ago, wiehahuo2 said:

Oil barrel on the robot body,
Can the operator get oil? 

Not many bots have fuel barrels / fuel tanks - but if they did, the controller should not gain the bot's fuel. They only get 50% of the score earned while playing as the bot.

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hey hey i got a good idea to restrict dumb players to get control !!

After the player got destroyed, if he is below minimum score .. he cant get to control any bot

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i harpooned a hoover bot (twin mg + aurora) dragging it all over the place like a kid with a balloon, great fun, the bot got MVP lol

i like idea, just can't see how it's not abused,

prevention/reduction of Bots is preferable to adding something requiring more effort by dev's when it's cause is because of other things, no one I know has ever even received an email to encourage them back to the game if they used to play, or advertising current or coming events/packs to players not in game regularly, some of my clan/friends list have not been on recently, or come see if anything has improved then logout (eg server/player population) again making Bot situation we have now or making it worse - "i'll be back in a few months to see if it's improved..." << this outcome make more bots, creates MM balance issues & concentrates the negative things into a smaller Player base amplifying the "Issues" that lead to many suggested solutions or Nerf/buff this or that discussions & inevitably player attrition - with new players filling that space then facing the same imbalance, 

most new players struggle initially with the bots until they get how bots work sorted (or don't work) & most find a way to help or utilise the Bots in battle, eg, take a Blue or better Radar/Detector to help bots SEE the enemy, & react in positive manner to assist team win...or use them to distract or block shots etc. 

what happens to the bots that manage a MVP etc now, some bots are rubbish, some poorly designed, some Win matches, & passing that Bot off to a player with unknown ability or intent could cause more issues than it fixes

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12 hours ago, Rasika_iceman said:

hey hey i got a good idea to restrict dumb players to get control !!

After the player got destroyed, if he is below minimum score .. he cant get to control any bot

Why are they low scores! Because of the suicide attack by the exploding spear, breakdown~
So the enemy can't control the BOT, the explosive spear suicide attack can!
 

Since we want to develop BOT reuse~

Does the car in the player garage provide BOT usage?
I want to combine Leviathan!
Bot keeps Contact 2M open
Automatically detonate Rift 2M after bot 2M combination
Can you organize your own bot team?

Or connect the current BOT body to 2M and keep it open~

Edited by wiehahuo2
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12 hours ago, Rasika_iceman said:

hey hey i got a good idea to restrict dumb players to get control !!

After the player got destroyed, if he is below minimum score .. he cant get to control any bot

 

11 hours ago, Clebardman said:

If this is implemented you'll see 90% humans playing lancers.

Personal experiences may vary, but most of the times I die with under 40 score, it is because of getting lanced. Commandeering a bot would provide a chance for lance victims to earn redemption. (Consider party play, when abandoning the match early is not a reasonable option. Also consider players that perform a significant amount of damage before dying, wait minutes for victory, and learn that the damage they performed was insufficient to earn credit for a victory.)

If 90% of humans will play lancers for the sole reason they won't need to spectate the rest of the match, that is an imbalance caused by lances rather than a fault with this suggestion. (Perhaps lances should award a few points to their victims, for disarming the lancer and "taking one for the team", but that is a different suggestion.)

Concerns about "dumb players" rushing to die for the sole reason of controlling a bot, I believe, are overexaggerated. The novelty wears off quickly, and players that attempt that will still experience a larger number of defeats than victories. If it becomes an issue (because of players unhappy with their own builds - of similar power score, you realize), the score ratio can be lessened from 1/2 to 1/4 or so.

Commandeering isn't a path to glory or ruin, it's just a way to continue contributing to your team in death (and reduce the prevalence of bad AI from ruining matches).

...I can't think of many occasions, if any, that I'd prefer a bot on my team rather than a human (even a bad one).

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No.....

 

The PvP battles is design to score 40 Points on the winning side to be alive at the end, at best to score less than 40 points.  Why should there be 2nd chances for anyone score badly?

To let "dead" players re-enter the battle again to score more is sending message to players "don't worry, you do have extra life to score again if you die fast!!".

 

The PvP battle is fine as it is.

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18 minutes ago, Comrade_Tiki said:

 

...I can't think of many occasions, if any, that I'd prefer a bot on my team rather than a human (even a bad one).

Can we organize a bot team?

 

 

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21 hours ago, wiehahuo2 said:

Why are they low scores! Because of the suicide attack by the exploding spear, breakdown~
So the enemy can't control the BOT, the explosive spear suicide attack can!

well well .that can be happen.i agree.... every development  have good and bad effects  .. if its that much unfair no need for it. But there is no other easy way to restrict every dumb player. game cant read player's mind

Actually point of this is ... reducing dumb bot activities and giving a human player to do something

my worst experience with bots :

  1. both side human players destroyed. enemy bot capturing our base. our bot just kissing walls  :crazy:
  2. 2 enemy human players left (no weapons and cant move). instead of shooting them off... bot staying at our base (time is up and we lost because enemies got more players)
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18 hours ago, Rasika_iceman said:

well well .that can be happen.i agree.... every development  have good and bad effects  .. if its that much unfair no need for it. But there is no other easy way to restrict every dumb player. game cant read player's mind

Actually point of this is ... reducing dumb bot activities and giving a human player to do something

my worst experience with bots :

  1. both side human players destroyed. enemy bot capturing our base. our bot just kissing walls  :crazy:
  2. 2 enemy human players left (no weapons and cant move). instead of shooting them off... bot staying at our base (time is up and we lost because enemies got more players)

This happen to all of us. 

I also had games where the bots win the game and with 4 kills + MPV.   

 

True, it is a pain in the backside to watch 3 mins of dump bots vs dumper bots.  Maybe dev can make a quick results for PvP battles where on real players left on the battle.  No matter what, I do not think to give players didn't do well on a battle for any reason should have another chance to add to their score on the same battle.

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I saw this thread in discussion, same idea...

problems detected:

This will incentive lancers suicidal players. Ergo lancers players shouldn't be allow to command bots

Points commanding the bot should be zero. To avoid suicidals with bad gear killing themselves to get a dual tsunami spider bot.

Other than that :good:

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1 hour ago, *Zhetesh said:

I saw this thread in discussion, same idea...

problems detected:

This will incentive lancers suicidal players. Ergo lancers players shouldn't be allow to command bots

Points commanding the bot should be zero. To avoid suicidals with bad gear killing themselves to get a dual tsunami spider bot.

Other than that :good:

nice idea .. yes if theres no special reward .. players will not look for die early and enter bots

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