Jimlock

The Reaper, a flawed design???

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Now, before anyone tries to say the devs got it right for once, why you complaining.....

The reaper is the only mini-gun weapon that needs ammo, why is this? Did they think it was too powerful?

That in my opinion, is the problem, I see very few reaper builds in battles of any power score. They're just not appreciated and I find that upsetting.

No legendary or any weapon, for that matter should be preferred on it's abilities alone. It's player preference, but the reaper is under valued because epic machine guns and mini-guns are better...

Even the Cyclone gets a better rep...

Me, personally, I think the devs went the wrong direction with the no overheat perk...

It shouldn't require ammo if it's the same weapon category as mini-guns/machineguns..

Give it back the overheat (but make it low) take away the ammo need and give it a perk such as.....

'Every 10th bullet that hits does 2-3x times the damage....

Just a suggestion.... maybe others can come up with better ones...

Thank you

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On 9/29/2018 at 4:26 PM, Jimlock said:

The reaper is the only mini-gun weapon that needs ammo, why is this? Did they think it was too powerful?

To my knowledge reaper had unlimited ammo in CBT... and basically killed everything in no time due to that.

 

On 9/29/2018 at 4:26 PM, Jimlock said:

That in my opinion, is the problem, I see very few reaper builds in battles of any power score. They're just not appreciated and I find that upsetting.

I would argue that it still suffers from a - not anymore deserved - reputation. Legendary are expensive toys... you dont rebuy them without being damms sure it is worth it this time. And having saved up the necessary coins which takes a long time.

 

On 9/29/2018 at 4:26 PM, Jimlock said:

No legendary or any weapon, for that matter should be preferred on it's abilities alone. It's player preference, but the reaper is under valued because epic machine guns and mini-guns are better...

Miniguns without a doubt are popular... being cheaper surely helps too. They are also smaller targets and you can have more of them.

 

On 9/29/2018 at 4:26 PM, Jimlock said:

Me, personally, I think the devs went the wrong direction with the no overheat perk... 

It shouldn't require ammo if it's the same weapon category as mini-guns/machineguns..

Give it back the overheat (but make it low) take away the ammo need and give it a perk such as.....

And I think that they went into the perfect direction. The best gatling feeling in the entire game. Press the trigger and enjoy full auto until ammo runs out.

There is never enuff... after all.

 

No need to watch an boring heat gauge.... only the need to make sure that this generous amount of lead reaches its intended target.

 

It might possible require more ammo... but I cant find anything wrong with its damage. Especially as reaper fire doesnt feel much different from other machine gun fire on the receiving end... you only notice that something is wrong when half your vehicle disintigrates in a hailstorm of lead.

 

Reapers are probably not meant for duking it out at point blank range (although even this tends to be unhealthy for most things) but instead are more like a midrange support weapon. One that you ignore... at your peril.

 

The ammo requirement also makes the weapon easier to balance against sealclubbing... you need to bring ammo packs with you which will raise your PS and also require protection unless you want that the second cannon volley transforms your entire vehicle into a sky high fireball.

 

 

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All this topic has done is made me want the oposite and have the basic minigun have ammo 1k by default. Reason, miniguns don't really over heat, they are air cooled and fast rotating so it is hard to over heat them.

Video games get that wrong all teh time.

Edited by Warbrand2
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I love the new "no overheat" perk! I think it fits the weapon style perfectly.

 

I do think it still has too little ammo. With any other weapon you can get by with one expanded ammo box. Add one normal ammo box if you like to spam your bullets. With Reapers two expanded is a good starting point. Add two normal ammo boxes on top of it and then you might not run out of ammo in a public match. Might not. These are obviously small things and easily fixable if the devs want to.

 

The real issue is the model and durability of the weapon.

 

  • Gun depression is non-existent which is why people run angled builds so they can actually aim down.
  • The low height of the barrel but high height of the gun itself makes it difficult to armor.
  • The low durability (and mass) of the weapon suggests it should be used on fast and light crafts.
  • But the large size and huge recoil suggests it should be used on a slow heavy craft.

 

The oxymoronic combination of low durability yet high recoil is the reason why people run either those boxed heavy reaper builds or under cabin versions.

 

Reaper is the ONLY turreted weapon in this game people are so willing to turn into a limited angle weapon in the name of survivability. They sacrifice so much of this weapon's usability just make it live longer on the battlefield. You don't see people running boxed pulse accelerators or underslung hammerfalls. The reason is because players use them on fast crafts for increased survivability. You don't see boxed Mammoths because the durability of the gun is high enough to withstand enemy fire even if the weapon is somewhat exposed.

 

So either the recoil should be reduced to make it easier to use on lighter crafts or durability should be increased to make it more useful as a turreted weapon in heavier crafts. I personally advocate the latter: Increase durability. With reduced recoil people would use it hovers and we'd have yet another weapon which has balance issues with hovers. The devs could freely increase the weight too in order to keep the durability/mass ratio the same if they so desire.

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Make the Reaper more to a Minigun!

The Equalizer (Epic Minigun) have unlimited Ammo.

Increase the spread for the weapon and remove the Overheat.

 

Do the same on Reaper.

Higher Firerate, unlimited Ammo, no overheating but a big spread and lesser damage like yet.

Set the Reaper Energy Cost to 5.

 

 

This sounds crazy, but the damage reduction and the higher spread is the key of it!

Both have the same special Perk:

“The Weapon cant overheat“

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On 9/29/2018 at 7:26 AM, Jimlock said:

Now, before anyone tries to say the devs got it right for once, why you complaining.....

The reaper is the only mini-gun weapon that needs ammo, why is this? Did they think it was too powerful?

That in my opinion, is the problem, I see very few reaper builds in battles of any power score. They're just not appreciated and I find that upsetting.

No legendary or any weapon, for that matter should be preferred on it's abilities alone. It's player preference, but the reaper is under valued because epic machine guns and mini-guns are better...

Even the Cyclone gets a better rep...

Me, personally, I think the devs went the wrong direction with the no overheat perk...

It shouldn't require ammo if it's the same weapon category as mini-guns/machineguns..

Give it back the overheat (but make it low) take away the ammo need and give it a perk such as.....

'Every 10th bullet that hits does 2-3x times the damage....

Just a suggestion.... maybe others can come up with better ones...

Thank you

I've been aware of this problem for a long time which is why I sold mine...

If  no one ever focuses on a player with mini guns then they can do a lot of damage over time but their current design makes them no match for most other legendary weapons 1 vs 1

For those who claim the mini guns can't overheat before the last update on the reaper are pretty stupid, they definitely can and their power score is far too high considering their DPS....

Of course now people are saying Damage per minute with mini-guns in a silly attempt to validate the Reapers current rework:015_2:

I gave up with this long ago and you may as well to...... It's unlikely the developers will listen :((

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Reapers should be hitscan weapons, so they could at least be combined with Equalizers and Aurora better...
And they should have a much higher firing rate, I mean, come on...
Just make the bullets much weaker and give it an insane rate of fire.

This clip is about 1.3 seconds long, about 90 rounds fired during that time.
guns.gif

Edited by Thokari
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35 minutes ago, Thokari said:

Reapers should be hitscan weapons, so they could at least be combined with Equalizers and Aurora better...
And they should have a much higher firing rate, I mean, come on...
Just make the bullets much weaker and give it an insane rate of fire.

This clip is about 1.3 seconds long, about 90 rounds fired during that time.
guns.gif

false for one miniguns fire between 2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute which means between 33 and 100 rounds in 1 second. That image is in an indoor range and is of a stablized one so I would think they have it upto max.

That said the average fire rate that they are set to is 3,000 which would be 50 per second which means it is likely firing 80 rounds in that clip.


but that said your point still stands.

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5 hours ago, Warbrand2 said:

false for one miniguns fire between 2,000 to 6,000 rounds per minute which means between 33 and 100 rounds in 1 second. That image is in an indoor range and is of a stablized one so I would think they have it upto max.

That said the average fire rate that they are set to is 3,000 which would be 50 per second which means it is likely firing 80 rounds in that clip.


but that said your point still stands.

We obviously have no idea what rpm the gun is set to but considering it is mounted it could very well be at max or min.

No reason to say that the guy made a false statement.

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1 hour ago, airkevin777 said:

We obviously have no idea what rpm the gun is set to but considering it is mounted it could very well be at max or min.

No reason to say that the guy made a false statement.

exactly.

determine firing rate of that magnitude from a 10 fps clip is technically impossible.

btw 50rounds/sec * 1.3sec = 65 not 80 rounds.

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imho reaper is already one of the best rapid firing weapons in the game tier for tier.

For example, reaper does 20.8dps per energy point, while equalizer/spectre/aspect does 6.7/8.3/9.3 respectively, even assuming the latter ones are using their full perks all the time (which is too ideal to be realistic) they still do less dmg (by at least 30%) per energy point than reaper.

Reaper also got good durability even for its bigger size and energy usage. 63hp per energy, as compare to 41 for equalizer, 34 for spectre and 50 for aspect. 

As for the ammo limit, mammoth got 10rounds of 170dmg shell without ammopack, giving a potential dmg of 2380 assuming 40% average bonus dmg (rather optimistic assumption for a turret cannon), while reaper got 260rounds of 12.5dmg ammo giving a potential dmg of 3250.

I really don't see why reaper would need a buff.

Edited by xcai35
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4 hours ago, xcai35 said:

imho reaper is already one of the best rapid firing weapons in the game tier for tier.

For example, reaper does 20.8dps per energy point, while equalizer/spectre/aspect does 6.7/8.3/9.3 respectively, even assuming the latter ones are using their full perks all the time (which is too ideal to be realistic) they still do less dmg (by at least 30%) per energy point than reaper.

Reaper also got good durability even for its bigger size and energy usage. 63hp per energy, as compare to 41 for equalizer, 34 for spectre and 50 for aspect. 

As for the ammo limit, mammoth got 10rounds of 170dmg shell without ammopack, giving a potential dmg of 2380 assuming 40% average bonus dmg (rather optimistic assumption for a turret cannon), while reaper got 260rounds of 12.5dmg ammo giving a potential dmg of 3250.

I really don't see why reaper would need a buff.

I like how you're chopping the numbers, gives us a better view of how it's performing against machine guns. :)

 

As a point of argument I could argue comparing it to machine guns isn't necessarily the best comparison since machine guns tend to be used in lighter faster crafts while Reaper (because of its recoil) tends to be used in heavier designs. While it's somewhat more durable per energy than MGs, Tsunami and Mammoth are 3/4 times more durable per energy than Reaper and Reaper tends to be more popular in similar kinds of heavy builds like those two cannons. I believe that's why I personally advocate increasing the durability since it's a big gun like the cannons, and tends to be used in slower cars.

 

Then again the DPS is completely in a different ballpark when compared to cannons.

 

I guess it just shows us how Reaper is truly a pretty unique weapon in XO.

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My point was not about buffing it, but making it more usable together with other machine guns, which you don't have to lead the target with.
And in order to balance that out, it should have much less damage per bullet.

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I just got 2 reapers and i first used them with an aurora but later ditched the aurora because of poor sinergy(in my taste) aurora is hitscan and smaller range and reaper has drop and needs leading to hit even at medium range. I had to buy a seccond large ammo box and use in total 2 large and 2 40% small crates. I LOVE THEM! on a 4 leg spider with just the spider cabin, no generator, only ammo, good structure for 9k PS and good agility( unless i go uphill) i just love trowing lead down the range, especialy at hovers. Also, it has enough gun depresion that i can shoot directly on top of harvester builds cabins and kill them before they gobble me up. Its amazing. 

Check it out if you want in exibition. FPz Rapaero(or just FPz and look for the reaper spoder)

Edited by Kabalan

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19 hours ago, Spedemix said:

I like how you're chopping the numbers, gives us a better view of how it's performing against machine guns. :)

 

As a point of argument I could argue comparing it to machine guns isn't necessarily the best comparison since machine guns tend to be used in lighter faster crafts while Reaper (because of its recoil) tends to be used in heavier designs. While it's somewhat more durable per energy than MGs, Tsunami and Mammoth are 3/4 times more durable per energy than Reaper and Reaper tends to be more popular in similar kinds of heavy builds like those two cannons. I believe that's why I personally advocate increasing the durability since it's a big gun like the cannons, and tends to be used in slower cars.

 

Then again the DPS is completely in a different ballpark when compared to cannons.

 

I guess it just shows us how Reaper is truly a pretty unique weapon in XO.

Fair point....I actually havent got many high ps matches so far (highest being ~8-10k) so Id rather evaluate from the stats, rn I feel its good for not so heavy build at mid range...

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Since the removal of overheating, the "Reaper" entered in "support" class weapons. For me the reaper is best for PVE games, where you can provide overwhelming firepower and i can easly fight against multiple NPCs... But PVP is other story... The reaper is probably the worst legendary weapon to be used in PVP games. The reason for that is simple - you need to stay in the open and shoot for long time, exposed to the incoming enemy fire. Unlike the other cannons, the reaper cannot be used on hit and run or hit and hide builds due its working principle... For PVP I would take legged tsunami build over reaper build any time!

But to be honest, i think the "Reaper" is in good spot atm, despite the fact that is quite difficult to be used in PVP games. Also the Reaper is the cheapest legendary weapon othe market (arround 1950c)

P.S The Reaper sucks against hoover builds, and that really drives me mad :@

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Ive been running around with equalizers for a while, and "upgraded" to reapers. I have both builds saved so I can swap back and forth between them and I feel like the equalizer build is superior. The aurora is almost mandatory on both these builds because the damage output is too low without it. Both these cars also have the Favorite cabin, so I can instantly cool down when its charged up. The Favorite hardly helps the Reaper car, but it lets me fire my Aurora for twice as long with no radiators, which is nice. I like fast cars that can run and gun.

- 3x equalizer, 1 x aurora, 2 epic radiators, epic radar scanner

vs

-2x reaper 1 x aurora

Just firing at a car of mine in the test area directly into the cabin, the Equalizer car can kill my test car in about 7 seconds. The Reaper car can kill the same test car in just over 5 seconds. Less than a 2 second difference in kill time, which is barely any difference at all. What ends up making the equalizer build superior to me is that they turn faster, spin up and fire faster, and I dont know if its just me, but the bullets even seem to travel faster than reaper bullets. Its very hard to hit fast moving targets with a reaper. You have to aim ahead of the target like with a canon to try and predict where they will be. Fighting a fast car or a hover that can run circles around you is almost impossible. Equalizers also have better redundancy. If I lose one equalizer, I still have 2 left. If I lose one reaper, half my firepower is instantly gone. Equalizers are also much more accurate, if you can believe that, due to it doing bullet damage, while reapers deal explosive damage. Reaper bullets will often "trigger" and explode on things you dont want them to, while equalizer bullets will fly right through small openings to hit whatever specific part you want to target. You can often try to target the guns on an enemy hover and the reaper bullets will just explode all over the front of the hover because they get proximity triggered there, while equalizer bullets will fly right past armor and hit the guns you are aiming at.

Reaper could be made much, MUCH better if it was given the same turn speed as equalizers, a much shorter spinup time, bullet damage instead of explosive damage, and more ammo as well.

5Gg4vgs.jpg

Edited by Crunk_Prime

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1 hour ago, Crunk_Prime said:

Reaper could be made much, MUCH better if it was given the same turn speed as equalizers, a much shorter spinup time, bullet damage instead of explosive damage, and more ammo as well.

5Gg4vgs.jpg

Fully agree with that!

 

The slow turnspeed of the Reaper is what annoys me the most :)

Edited by KAZASHI

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I would also say to increase the fire rate and lower the damage so it keeps the same DPS. I want to see bullets flying out of it like a fire hose. Right now its more like a garden hose.

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20 hours ago, Crunk_Prime said:

I would also say to increase the fire rate and lower the damage so it keeps the same DPS. I want to see bullets flying out of it like a fire hose. Right now its more like a garden hose.

With the impulse it has? That'd make reaper OPed.

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if you want to make it more interesting then sugest changing it to the gau8 avenger

250px-GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg

limited traverce, takes a few moments before firing and has limited amunition but everything infront of it will vaporise once the thing starts firing :p 

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28 minutes ago, bogus_bill said:

if you want to make it more interesting then sugest changing it to the gau8 avenger

250px-GAU-8_meets_VW_Type_1.jpg

limited traverce, takes a few moments before firing and has limited amunition but everything infront of it will vaporise once the thing starts firing :p 

 

Maybe that one could be the Relic Minigun? :)

 

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