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I see more and more players use macros lately...

One can argue about an enemy using a macro when said enemy is able to always fire their plasma emitters synchronous but I see enemies still shooting them perfectly even if they aren't synchronous. Since I can't imagine any human to be able to do that and all GMs I asked told me macros aren't allowed we need to fight the use of macros!

The only thing we can do right now is to report said players. Those reports will get attention when they drastiacally amass in a short timespan so if you see somebody using a macro please take the time to report them :excl:

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Silly question, but I shoot my plasmas at the same time by having all of them on the same firing button and when it discharges they both shoot and in synchronized line. That is not what you are referring to , is it?

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13 minutes ago, Hawkeyes331 said:

Silly question, but I shoot my plasmas at the same time by having all of them on the same firing button and when it discharges they both shoot and in synchronized line. That is not what you are referring to , is it?

Nope. I play them like you by firing them with the same button. With experience you can make them shoot nearly as good as a macro would make them shoot. A macro is a very simple program that will create an automated mouseclick. With this you can shoot always perfect without even pressing your mouse. Therefore it gives you a distinct advantage against honest players :/

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3 hours ago, Roadraider said:

One can argue about an enemy using a macro when said enemy is able to always fire their plasma emitters synchronous but I see enemies still shooting them perfectly even if they aren't synchronous. Since I can't imagine any human to be able to do that and all GMs I asked told me macros aren't allowed we need to fight the use of macros!

 

But you can not prove whether the player doing this is using a macro or he just weighted down a button on the keyboard responsible for "fire all" control option. Due to it being impossible to actually distinct between macros and regular game controls being used, reporting will not accomplish anything.

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First of all its not macros. Second if u are holding the fire all button and spam the button that shoots the plasma emiters u can have them instantly fire after each burst. And aparently its a feature and not a bug since its been there since the first version of it was introduced.

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lol if you put corvos on your levi and see how fast it shoots you can compare it to other corvoplayers and notice: no one "johnwayne"s as fast as mr. levi xD

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3 hours ago, Blasted_Off said:

First of all its not macros. Second if u are holding the fire all button and spam the button that shoots the plasma emiters u can have them instantly fire after each burst. And aparently its a feature and not a bug since its been there since the first version of it was introduced.

Then I recommend removing that feature. Also I often see people activating the macro moments before the engagement. They also need time to deactivate it after the engagement...

And before you say that those volleys are just missed volleys or attempts to decloak somebody, I play with the emitters all the time and the way they shoot is just not, well, let's say "natural"

Edited by Roadraider
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11 hours ago, Roadraider said:

Then I recommend removing that feature. Also I often see people activating the macro moments before the engagement. They also need time to deactivate it after the engagement...

And before you say that those volleys are just missed volleys or attempts to decloak somebody, I play with the emitters all the time and the way they shoot is just not, well, let's say "natural"

Personally I'd rather have the whole need to click idea removed, it's just annoying and serves no real purpose.
I usually release and reclick just after the volley is done (while in combat ofcourse, not when just driving around), not much skill or timing in that so I don't see why it needs to be in.

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Yeah.... I don't see macros being good in this game.  I'm pretty sure a macro couldn't hold a candle to me.  It's an idea for finishing boring **** raids though 

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The thing I dont understand about Plasma Emitters devs insist on such a stupid firemode in the first place. With a bit of training the firerate is only slightly below a perfect marco.... so why just not make the weapon fire automatically?

 

Devs right now punish non macro users... by ruining their click finger. I love those guns.. but I stopped using them because my finger threatened to quit.

 

And yes.... those weapons are probably heavily used with macros.... that normal firemode is stupid in principle.

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On 10/18/2018 at 1:12 PM, Roadraider said:

I see more and more players use macros lately...

One can argue about an enemy using a macro when said enemy is able to always fire their plasma emitters synchronous but I see enemies still shooting them perfectly even if they aren't synchronous. Since I can't imagine any human to be able to do that and all GMs I asked told me macros aren't allowed we need to fight the use of macros!

The only thing we can do right now is to report said players. Those reports will get attention when they drastiacally amass in a short timespan so if you see somebody using a macro please take the time to report them :excl:

This isn't a macro, you simply hold down "fire everything" button and then you can just click the fire and they will all shoot. Before complaining, do your research. I even made a video on it and explained this in detail. There's no foul play there.

However what is NOT fine, are those who use a script / macro to fire aspects. I have seen those shameful players in clan wars who use a script to keep their aspects just below the overheat for maximum damage.

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9 hours ago, ARES_IV said:

 

I stopped using them because my finger threatened to quit.

and u wouldnt want your mouse break in two days

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People use macros with Pulse Accelerators too. Today I encountered one. Synthesis macro involves binding all the weapons to different weapon groups and then alternating between them all to provide steady fire. Macro will alternate between all the guns.

Edited by Spedemix
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I saw yesterday a 100% Sythesis Macro User. When I fight against the Hover in close range, I pushed him away, he hit the wall several time but his bullet behavior did not change. He shot continuously. 

Yes, Marco on Plasmaweapons (Syth,Pro,Helios) is real and exist. I think many people use it. 

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8 hours ago, Sethioz said:

This isn't a macro, you simply hold down "fire everything" button and then you can just click the fire and they will all shoot. Before complaining, do your research. I even made a video on it and explained this in detail. There's no foul play there.

However what is NOT fine, are those who use a script / macro to fire aspects. I have seen those shameful players in clan wars who use a script to keep their aspects just below the overheat for maximum damage.

Thanks for the hint Sethioz but I talk about the guys who really use a macro. Using the fire all mechanic you described would not lead to somebody continuing to shoot obviously aimless through the landscape for another few seconds. Somebody even took the time to explain the creation of a macro for plasma emitters after I called him a "lazy **** macro abuser" :dntknw:

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On 10/20/2018 at 4:43 AM, tenshiijin said:

Yeah.... I don't see macros being good in this game.  I'm pretty sure a macro couldn't hold a candle to me.  It's an idea for finishing boring **** raids though 

I honestly have no problem with people using them in raids since you fight bots there. It is brutally unfair in PvP...

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I haven't used macros or much of plasma emitters either. Recently I played few raids with my Helios together with 2 Synthesis, and I brought more Helios as they seemed unpriced and I also wanted to try them. 

 

Using the fire all weapons function I had no problems keeping the weapons firing nonstop, and also firing immediately on demand if I kept a pause. So how exacly you say macro can make it better?

 

 

" I see enemies still shooting them perfectly even if they aren't synchronous"

Yeah this is exacly what happens with the fire all function. Different plasma emitters can become out of sync, either due to having different type and different delay(not sure), but at least when some of them are blocked, they won't fire, and when they are able to fire, they become out of sync. So again how exacly you know it's a macro and what's the benefit of macro when you can fire nonstop anyway.

 

The only benefit of macro I could see, is when I was playing, I binded the fire all into shift, and then play normally with mouse and wasd. Keeping the shift downpressed all the time with my lttle finger made my fingers and hand tired over time. It could be easily countered by binding the fire all into mouse button, which I'd imagine is a lot easier to keep downpressed.

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There's nothing inherently 'unfair' about macros since everyone and their dog can make use of such things and, unlike a bot, they don't play the game for you; they just facilitate your ability to control what that which you have in the game is doing - the way your sensitivity setting and control layout facilitates your ability to control what you have in game, like a HOTAS can make a flight sim easier or a steering wheel/gamepad/joystick/some other analogue controls can make a racing simulator easier to control.

Instead of viewing macros as unfair, take issue with a games developer not facilitating within their game itself the functions people would macro.

Want to be able to set a specific delay for recycling of a given weapon? Make it possible in-game rather than having to be macroed.
Want to be able to set a secondary delay on an alternative keybind for the same weapon? Make that possible too.
Want a version of firing that weapon which has no delay, ergo just firing it normally at its maximum fire-rate? Make that possible too.

Want to be able to chain-fire a 'group' of weapons, possibly with a customized delay and/or one which provides for a perfect rotation between them? Make that possible too.

Where this oughtn't be the case is in weaponry which require micro-management for a bonus which occurs at something like an overheating threshold, such as the Spectre and Aspect; because while anyone and their dog can macro whether the devs like it or not, not everyone can micro-manage such thresholds (much like managing heat in a game like Mechwarrior) in the middle of a fight without exceeding the heat threshold and causing their weapon to 'reset'.

When and where developers don't make it possible for people to automate something they CAN realistically achieve using their own fingers, but tediously or impractically so even though what they set out to do should be doable in any reasonable scenario, people are going to end up making use of something which facilitates what they seek to do. And punishing the few who do so rather than teaching the majority who don't realise they could be doing the same doesn't make much sense to me, because I can tell you now that if the majority knew they could and it's not too complicated for them to get done, they would be doing it and will look at doing it with more games as they go on.

Consider in a game like Counter-Strike, the original, there were 'voice call-outs' for different things like needing help, spotting an enemy and so on and so forth. Before such call-outs became 'a thing' in games, people would be typing messages to let their teammates know crucial things within a match. Games developers caught on to that and now we have things like radial call-out menus ala Crossout to convey critical info quickly and efficiently, without having to use macros to type up and submit text messages for us via dedicated key-presses. This is something *everyone* can do. Not everyone is going to, but it's there and is a game function, meaning it's fair to everyone.

And if 'macroing' were a thing people could get done in-game, then they could only blame themselves for not making use of a feature which despite it being available to them.

 

Edited by TheoLu
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But Macros are inherently unfair. They give you perfect fire without all the "pressing-buttons" stuff so you can concentrate on avoiding gunfire and detecting more enemies.

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19 hours ago, TheoLu said:

There's nothing inherently 'unfair' about macros since everyone and their dog can make use of such things

You could say the same about cheats/hacks lol...

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I have been playing little with the Helios now. Using second mouse button as the fire all button, and keeping it downpressed most of the time, I just rapidly click on left mouse button, and they fire after short delay. It's very convinient and you can play for hours without fatique which is what I was getting when I was using shift as fire all button. I sync my aiming with the sound. Also typically when you kill an enemy, because you already clicked primary mouse button when the enemy was dying, you will fire one or two times.

 

While MGs would benefit from macro I see no benefit of it for plasma emitters, as long as that fire all functions the way it does.

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3 hours ago, Roadraider said:

But Macros are inherently unfair. They give you perfect fire without all the "pressing-buttons" stuff so you can concentrate on avoiding gunfire and detecting more enemies.

By that logic, a mouse with thumb buttons is also unfair since not everyone has mice with thumb buttons. A mouse with a DPI-shift function is also unfair since people aiming at distant objects can temporarily reduce their sensitivity to get right on target.Tilting on the wheel? Unfair, not everyone can flick their wheel left or right for an extra function. Something like a Logitech G13 or Razer Orbis and the two thumb buttons and 4-way hatswitch each has? Unfair since most people are playing with a regular keyboard which only has a spacebar at their thumb. People in flight sims who have at least a joystick also have an unfair advantage in simulation modes over those who have to play with their mouse, and people with head-tracking in those have an especially unfair advantage. Same can be said for people playing racing sims with wheels, especially those who have a clutch pedal, since they can have significantly-finer control over their vehicle than someone who has to play with just a gamepad or, worse, a keyboard, to say nothing of the advantage afforded in a racing sim when you've got head-tracking to go with it.

Now, hopefully you will have noticed that each one of these things I listed was hardware based. That is to say, to eliminate this advantage other people have over you, you have to spend money to get on an even footing with them.

There's no money to be spent getting something like AutoHotKey to at least get SOME macro functionality going, and *anyone* can do this.

Thus, there's no unfairness since the only limiting factor for anyone is whether they have knowledge of something they could be using to facilitate their control of their car.

 

2 hours ago, fftunes4real said:

You could say the same about cheats/hacks lol...

No, you couldn't, because an aimbot will perfectly lock onto a target for you even at impossibly small sizes on your screen, and/or perfectly predict trajectories for weapons with shot travel time/drop, or wall-hack type things which can let you know where all the enemies are even if you're not supposed to be able to see them, crap like that. The difference between a hack/aimbot and using macros for weapon chain-firing is that you cannot do what such hacks/aimbots do for you in any sense yourself, but you CAN potentially 'perfectly cycle' your weapons manually. It's just immensely tedious to do so and rapidly causes fatigue.

I've got a Logitech G13. If I want a 'weapons rotation' which is perfectly cyclic I can simply bind them to the thumb stick and then get used to the muscle-memory required for cycling something like my rapiers on that at the sort of speed I want to deal with their recoil and spread more effectively. On my G700, I can bind a thumb button to 1 or 2 and use left/right click for the other two guns. If I'm using quad shotguns I can do the same on the G13's thumbstick (without having to rapidly rotate through the 'blank') or bind up another thumb button for 2 so I can cycle them each individually.

That's not overly difficult to do and get used to, but it IS tedious for something the devs could have instead given us an in-game chain firing option for. I would MUCH rather have the option of click-click-clicking a single button to fire the 'next' weapon within a group than having to 'roll' a thumbstick or 'cycle' a bunch of different buttons just so I don't use a macro.

 

1 hour ago, PurdooSix said:

While MGs would benefit from macro I see no benefit of it for plasma emitters, as long as that fire all functions the way it does.

A complex macro which spools up the second and third emitters at 1/3 and 2/3 charge of the first one would potentially grant you a constant stream of projectiles going out, which could intimidate some people who don't realise the total DPS remains unchanged.

If one, again, has a hatswitch like a G13 or Orbis has, you can 'roll' that to get them started and then just keep spinning the thing while holding your fire all button, and you're likely to maintain a 'perfect' cycle without needing a macro all the same. But it'll still get to be tedious.

And since the things don't have 'heat' to worry about it's not like you ever actually need to stop them unless you don't want to give away your position noise-wise or with random stray projectiles flying around.

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Trying to prevent users from using macros I can understand, calling it a cheat I do not. Everyone can use Macros there is no hack required to use them. 

Cheating is something that will give you an unfair advantage. What about better internet connection or better hardware ? Will we ban users who have better ping to ?

A rule that cannot be enforced isn't a rule. 

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2 hours ago, CrossBoneS said:

What about better internet connection or better hardware ? Will we ban users who have better ping to ?

On the note of this, please artificially increase everyone's latencies to match the 167ms minimum I have to play with so people don't have an unfair advantage over me, and if their latencies are rock solid artificially cause latency spikes and packet loss to simulate them also being on a 2Mbps connection shared three ways.

Kthnx.

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