Woodyrojo

[Developer blog] Changes in the impact of explosive damage on decor. Mass testing

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Greetings to all survivors!

Today we will discuss one of the most frequently asked questions — the rework of the interaction of decor with projectiles that deal explosive damage. The test version of the changes is ready, and we will give you the opportunity to evaluate them yourself on a special server. But first things first.

To begin with, let's describe how the current version of the mechanic works. The game has a lot of different decor: from small brake lights and horns to the impressive “Inflatable Mammoths”, “Neon Santas” and New Year trees. Each decor is a separate part with its own parameters of durability and weight, as well as a collision model. When a cannon projectile hits, decor with a large collision model (such as the already mentioned “Inflatable Mammoth” and “Neon Santa”), installed in a certain way, can take all the damage, acting like armour. This game feature is quite interesting from the point of view of creative design solutions, but it does not correspond to the cosmetic role of decor that we and many players expect. Perhaps we will return to this feature in the future if the decision is made to create a separate new “Armour” part class, but the decor has no such role, in our opinion.

So what's changed?

The decor will no longer absorb the damage from projectile explosions. When hit, the projectile will destroy the decor, and the explosion and damage will apply to the closest parts in the direction of the projectile. The maximum search angle for the nearest part relative to the point of contact with the decor is 45°.

DEC_1.gif

Let's have a look at an example of the new mechanics. If a projectile hit to the “Inflatable Mammoth” now destroys only the decor itself, then after the changes, the explosion takes place directly on the part “Buggy Trunk” to which it is attached, and destroys the part.

Important/interesting features:

  • All the decor, which is installed between the point of impact of the projectile and the part that will take explosion, will also be destroyed.
  • Unique weapon perks will be triggered by contact with decor. So the fact of hitting the armoured vehicle will count (when, for example, only the decor is in the path of the projectile's flight, and there are no other parts behind it).
  • As for the Phoenix crossbow and the mechanics of its projectile explosions, they will still be attached to the decor if they hit it, and this same decoration will be the epicentre of the explosion.
  • When hitting the decor, the shell of the "Executioner 88 mm" gun will begin to penetrate the parts from the point of the explosion center, i.e. from the nearest structural part.

Because of the announced changes, we are cancelling all current requests for decor purchase on the market. The coins or the decor itself should return to the warehouses to their owners.

Launch of a special test server

Today we invite everyone to try out how the changes will affect the gameplay on our test server.

How to get to the test server?

If you have already participated in testing on a special server, then it will be enough to start the Launcher from the folder with the test client and wait for the update to complete.

  • Create a new folder for the game on your hard drive.
  • Download the Launcher from this link. The file name should not contain numbers indicating that the file is a duplicate. Please note that you should launch the file that does not contain any digits (1), (2), etc. in its name. If, when starting the installed launcher, you get to the live game servers, you need to delete all downloaded launchers from the download folder and try again.
  • Start the Launcher and install the game to the folder you created (for example D:\Public test\Crossout).
  • After the installation is complete, start the Launcher and enter the game with your username and password.
  • The whole progress of your main account will be transferred to the main server (including parts in storage and levels of reputation in factions).
  • After logging in to the server to transfer the progress from your account, you must press the “Esc” key and select “Copy account data”.
  • Please note the schedule of the test server:
    • Friday, May 24, 2019 from 14:00 to 19:00 (GMT)
    • Saturday, May 25, 2019 from 15:00 to 18:00 (GMT)
    • Sunday, May 26, 2019 from 15:00 to 18:00 (GMT)
  • Any progress you make on the test server will not be transferred to the live game servers (INCLUDING ATTEMPTS TO BUY PACKS).

After testing the changes, we invite you to leave your constructive feedback on the planned rework in THIS THREAD ( it will open after the launch of the test server).

The public test server is intended only for testing of the upcoming update, and may not accommodate all players without exception. However, absolutely anyone can join the server, as long as there are free spots.


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Did the scorpion shot also pierce the decors?

Ka1deron (Posted )

TurboBeton, hello At the moment the following changes are planned to be applied only to the weapons that deal explosive damage (cannons, autocannons, etc).
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So if I understood this correctly....

 

  • When a cannon shell meets a decorative piece, the said decor piece will then get destroyed no questions asked. This before AoE has even begun
  • The cannon shell then looks for a nearest structure piece in 45 degree angle of its original trajectory and flies over that point before detonating itself and causing the usual AoE damage

 

So "ram" damage for the decor, AoE damage for the structure which the shell looks for in 45 degree angle. Is that correct?

 

 

 

Does the cannon shell explicitly search for the connection point between the decor and the structure it was attached to and go for that? Even if some other structure piece was "available closer" in the 45 degree cone? Or will the shell just go for any structure piece that's closest to the shell even that piece was not the structure piece the decor was attached to?

 

Thank you in advance for answering. :)

Ka1deron (Posted )

But, let's say, that the decor is installed on the roof of the vehicle and there is a structual part behind it. In this case, this part will take the damage and not the part on which the decor is installed.

Ka1deron (Posted )

Spedemix, hello! The damage depends on the way the decor is installed on your vehicle. For example, on the attached gif you can see, that it is installed on the side of the car with the specific angle - this way, the structual part (on which the decor is installed) consumes the damage.
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1. This change's motivation is good

2. Powerful Radar and Improved Radar can also be used for this purpose (Huge hitbox, excellent HP/Mass ratio), if your change only affects decors, players will switch from decor armor to radar armor and nothing will be changed overall.

3. One thing that the decor armor counters most is the Scorpion, if Scorpion's 2-meter penetration still start from the point where the decor is hit, Scorpion will have another major disadvantage comparing to Typhoon.

And it is truly stupid because in history so far spaced armor is used to counter HE/HEAT shell instead of AP shells, now the new mechanism completely reverses it, also it makes less sense that a railgun bullet can be stopped by a balloon easily comparing to a balloon detonating a cannon shell.

4. In the example gif, what I expected is not only destroying the buggy trunk, the hover behind it should also be destroyed for good, although I don't know what hit that balloon, that makes me a little bit nervous and suspect the effectiveness of this change.

Ka1deron (Posted )

We know about the radars and plan to bring additional tweaks to them in the future. As for your concern regarding the example gif - the decor part has been attached to a structual part. After being hit with the shell, the decor part was destroyed, but it was the structual part that consumed the damage.
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I know here is not for the suggestion but I honestly believe that the most effective and direct way to solve the decor problem is to just delete all decor's hitbox.

Ka1deron (Posted )

With those changes we want to return the decor to the way it has been originally designed while paying attention to the in-game balance (like with different kinds of damage).
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" Because of the announced changes, we are cancelling all current requests for decor purchase on the market. The coins or the decor itself should return to the warehouses to their owners. "

Why are certain decor now not tradable? I cannot still try to liost mammoth's, spoilers, santa signs, and fairings on the market. I can see cancelling them on the market, but there is no notes that they would now be stuck in players inventories.

Ka1deron (Posted )

Deadsoulinside, hello! As you know, any announcements regarding the changes in the game mechanic have a direct effect on the market. This measure has been applied in order to help the players who already have trade requests on the decor - as they might be unaware of such market changes.

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14 minutes ago, Robocraftman said:

4. In the example gif, what I expected is not only destroying the buggy trunk, the hover behind it should also be destroyed for good, although I don't know what hit that balloon, that makes me a little bit nervous and suspect the effectiveness of this change.

Let's hope they used Avenger and not, say - a Tsunami. I think an Icarus can tank a single Avenger shot and since the structure part holding the Inflatable Mammoth is a grill there is no way it soaks up all the damage, considering it has a 90% damage passthrough.

 

If the cannon shell simply destroys a part behind the decor and does not apply the normal rules or AoE (damage radius, grille passthrough etc), then this change is meaningless. You could put a Neon Santa instead of the Inflatable Mammoth and the cannon shell would destroy the Santa sign and the grille leaving the hover 100% untouched. No AoE, no nothing. I guess we'll find out once we login to the test server.

 

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It's not much more easy make decors intangible against projectiles?

Edited by HuNGer

Ka1deron (Posted )

At the moment the decor is much more effective measure against the explosive damage (dealt by quite a lot of weapons in the game). You will be able to test the changes yourself quite soon on the public test;)

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We all know it is the issue of price, if the best "armor" decor would be cheap so anyone could get it, none would complain. Everyone knows the best (biggest) "armor" decor are most expensive. But i guess u wont solve it that way.

But to be honest the proposed solution is kinda too complex and i dont see why.

I need to agree with @Robocraftman on this matter, why so complex? I would leave the hitbox as is, it can be done way easier an without any misunderstandings, the decor should be just a "ghost part", that means, if a decor is in a way of a projectile that deals explosion dmg then it should just destroy the decor upon touching it and not causing the projectile to loose any power, BUT still going thru in its initial direction and explode only on normal parts if it hits one.

Why it needs to search anything? Why 45° angle? The projectile has already a direction and velocity, either something is in its way or not, either u miss or not.

So what if i make a narrow shot at 66° angle at that left decor from left side based on the gif, it wont hit the center buggy floor which it should?

With the "ghost part" mechanic i described, left decor mammoth would be destroyed and projectile should hit that center buggy floor and only then the projectile should work as it work normally.

No need for some search or angle limits, just let it thru, cmon.

Ka1deron (Posted )

szefopl, before coming up with the following changes we ran a number of tests, trying different variants (including the one that you have described). Making the decor a "ghost part" would lead to a number of problems with hit detection and hitboxes. Moreover, the decor is directly connected with the in-game physics system.

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very nice.

but one question after watching the example gif:

what cannon did you use for that shot? it must have been a rather weak one, otherwise the hover should at least start sparking.

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But with this rework u made the scorpion even worse now

Why u Devs always try to do 1 thing right but u sacrifice another? 

U blocked from the Marke only a few decors(not all) so those players lose even more coins WIch they mostly bought with real money to support You and this is how u pay them respect? 

Now if I protect my craft with mammoth it will be useless, but if I do it with large speakers it will work? 

I know I wount get an answer from you 

But ty for ripping off those hands that feed you

Respect

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30 minutes ago, _ChocoNutsX_ said:

But with this rework u made the scorpion even worse now

Why u Devs always try to do 1 thing right but u sacrifice another? 

U blocked from the Marke only a few decors(not all) so those players lose even more coins WIch they mostly bought with real money to support You and this is how u pay them respect? 

Now if I protect my craft with mammoth it will be useless, but if I do it with large speakers it will work? 

I know I wount get an answer from you 

But ty for ripping off those hands that feed you

Respect

"mostly bought with real money to support You" & "But ty for ripping off those hands that feed you" good one, still gonna shake my head about this on sunday.

the change will affect all decor items.

like they said, decor never was intended to be used in such way - it basically was a low level exploit of carelessly designed parts.

 

a new category of armor structure parts would be great. bring back those panels etc we had in cbt, and create new ones that offer resistances against various attack types. in theory you could move all plows and bumper parts into that category, they are armor against melee and dont add hp to your craft. maybe grille parts too since they let damage through

Edited by forc3dinduction
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Make everything go through decor, destroy decor as it passes through then hit the part behind the decor and start the explosion or the penetration there! Remove hitboxes for all decors not only a couple of them. The way you guys try solving this problem is very complicated and not enough.

Edited by D3N1Z
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5 minutes ago, D3N1Z said:

Make everything go through decor, destroy decor as it passes through then hit the part behind the decor and start the explosion or the penetration there! Remove hitboxes for all decors not only a couple of them. The way you guys try solving this problem is very complicated and not enough.

"All the decor, which is installed between the point of impact of the projectile and the part that will take explosion, will also be destroyed"

mammoth santa etc were only listed as examples.

but making them penetratable for all damage types would be nice too.

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Press Esc-> Copy Account Data to get your stuff from live server.

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Just now, Spedemix said:

Press Esc-> Copy Account Data to get your stuff from live server. 

Ah Ok, now I have my normal account with decors, thank you Spedemix.

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I find this needlessly complicated. It also now runs into the problem where Armor piercing projectiles are still going to suffer vs decor cheese while HE weapons will instagib them... Which logically for a giant foil balloon or thin flimsy neon sign anything should damage what's behind it.

I would personally add a decor type specific hit box which acts solid but projectiles ignore it, this would likely fix all the issues and be less complex, but idk I'm not a game developer.

Additionally if you ever intend on adding special armor parts to act as decor armor did, add stuff like Pz IV armor skirts and ERA plates.

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10 hours ago, Woodyrojo said:

Making the decor a "ghost part" would lead to a number of problems with hit detection and hitboxes.

Then Fix It.

Edited by HuNGer
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Allright! It's picture time! I might update this during weekend when I once again have access to the test server.

 

I stacked seven Buggy step plates behind my cabin in a line and decor in in various setups and shot them with a Typhoon. I took a picture of each to show you how it goes down. Generally speaking I try to aim not too high or down but as middle as possible vertically speaking.

 

Here's a vanilla scenario showing you how the parts are destroyed if you shoot the stack straight from behind. Based on this you could argue Typhoon's blast radius reaches six blocks deep. I registered no cabin damage when I took this shot:

Spoiler

Z2jjSTZ.jpg

 

Grilles can still be used to prematurely detonate the cannon shell. Corresponds with the six block radius:

Spoiler

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lkELsyy.jpg

 

Now the good news is using Large decor like Inflatable Mammoth and Snowman the usual way where you just stick it as the last layer does not indeed work anymore. Based on these the shell does kill the decor by "ramming" it and then detonates when it meets the first Buggy step plate. It's like the decor was never there:

Spoiler

R8SUHUD.jpg

UHzIz8c.jpg

 

With decor attached at the end of grilles things get a bit more interesting however due to the 45 degree angle thing. Once the shell meets the decor it finds the closest structure piece within 45 degree angle, goes there and detonates. In this case the closest structure piece seems to be the griles protruding at the back of the vehicle:

Spoiler

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QHJ2Kkl.jpg

Fy5YAhr.jpg

ODpd1nx.jpg

vMWKuwr.jpg

 

We can demonstrate that by placing a Snowman far away and instead of grilles we'll use Neon Santas as a bridge. The closest structure piece the shell sees within 45 degree angle is once again the Buggy step plate so it detonates there.

Spoiler

hiqXso2.jpg

 

Theoretically you could use decor along with light structure pieces to "guide"  a cannon shell to detonate a bit prematurely. At least if you shoot the decor from a 90 degree angle. I have a feeling the 45 degree guide angle proves to be useful when shooting from other angles than straight behind etc.

 

Just for the heck of it I also tested "damage soak" with APC panels to demonstrate it's a thing.

 

One APC panel is not enough to soak up all of the damage so it gives you the impression no damage soak is happening. The blast radius keeps expanding as usual (six block radius) and thus these fragile Buggy step plates get destroyed even when the blast radius deals reduced damage. Had there been something more durable behind the APC panel it might've survived the blast:

Spoiler

n1ODaY0.jpg

 

Two APC panels demonstrate how they pretty much eat up the whole damage a Typhoon shell is capable of dealing. The blast radius does not get smaller (the above picture proves that), it just deals zero damage once the two APC panels and one buggy plate have completely eaten up the damage:

Spoiler

ctVAESE.jpg

 

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How baloon can detonate real canon shell by real devs neon santa ok snow tryres ok but baloon vs canon shell its a joke 

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Why the continuous need to be changing the rules of the game under the banner of "balance", "players ask", "the role of such a thing is"?
Why not just let people play with clear and immutable rules?
What is the problem generated by the use of a part that has its mass, its ps, its durability like any other part of the game?
Tomorrow they will reduce the AoE to the guns and the vicious circle will continue.

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