Woodyrojo

Changes in the impact of explosive damage on decor. Feedback

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ATTENTION! The topic is created to gather all the constructive feedback regarding planned decor changes. Please, leave your feedback only after you've tested the changes on the special test server. All the posts that are not made in accordance with the example below will be deleted!

EXAMPLE

These are the features I like the most:

  • .... (in brief)
  • ....
  • ....

These are the features that I don't like:

  • ....., because...
  • ....., because...

Conclusion: (brief constructive conclusion that sums up your overall experience)

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Haven't been much around in the game lately but here are my thoughs.

These are the features I like the most:

  • multiple layers of decor is done for

These are the features that I EXPECT in the future:

  • a complete explosion rework, the reason why i like Spedemix's thoughts on the "decor nerf" thread:
On 5/22/2019 at 9:23 PM, Spedemix said:

I could see devs doing something like this: Instead of straight up removing decor hitbox the devs will simply give all the cannons huge penetration depth and then lower the damage across the board. This way decor armor becomes useless, "normal" spaced armor becomes slightly less effective and stacked armor becomes more effective.

This is how a vehicle combat game should be: the densier your plating, the hardest it is to destroy you.

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image.thumb.png.042270df91f23c52ec729ddc

These are the features I like the most:

  • large flimsy decor items can no longer (mostly) absorb explosive damage
  • hit perks still being triggered by hitting decor is neat
  • small non-critical items barely matter, like before

 

These are the features that I don't like:

  • the shell redirection (searching nearest structure element in a certain angle) makes for new loopholes by preventing the shell from continuing its original trajectory and hitting non-decor items there (see above: the shell was redirected downwards to detonate on the grille parts instead of punching through a few more decors and hitting the cabin - even one last balloon survived)
  • prepare for the next non-limited non-structural parts to be used in masses for armor instead of their original purpose

 

improvement idea:

to fix this shell redirection issue i'd suggest to only start searching for the next closest non-decor item if there was nothing but other decor items in its original trajectory.

 

what else i want to say on this change and mechanics affected by it:

after fixing the decor issue and its follow-ups, maybe cannon and explosive damage can be reworked a little so that actually tanky, dense builds made from high-hp structure parts dont take more damage than a spread-out space problem made from the lightest parts in the game.

On 5/23/2019 at 2:23 AM, Spedemix said:

I could see devs doing something like this: Instead of straight up removing decor hitbox the devs will simply give all the cannons huge penetration depth and then lower the damage across the board. This way decor armor becomes useless, "normal" spaced armor becomes slightly less effective and stacked armor becomes more effective.

this can also help return current high-ps builds to somewhat vehicular shape and not just "an area of barely held together rather flimsy parts with about 80% air walking or flying". those cause actual space problems (mostly for the own team) on some maps with buildings etc just bc they are so damn wide and long.

ofc you should also tackle the current overuse of melee and pushing tactics (basic w+m1) at some point...but thats getting further and further off-topic.

 

Conclusion:

solving the decor armor (please solve it properly without leaving new loopholes) is one step in the right direction, may we continue on this path

Edited by forc3dinduction
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I ran few tests in test server regarding this and here's my feedback:

 

Things that I like:

 

  • Large decor pieces can't be used as good armor against cannons anymore. Especially if you just put them as a last layer of armor like most do.
  • Minimal to no effect on smaller decor pieces like brake lights etc.

 

Things that I (maybe) don't like:

 

  • The 45 degree angle sometimes gives you weird results where the cannon shell suddenly changes course pretty drastically. This means you can use decor to "guide" cannon shells away from specific parts of your craft. It probably works well when you get a glancing shot from a side in which case the shell will get guided further into the target itself.

 

Conclusion:

 

Apart from the weird guiding from the 45 angle thing I found no other weird issues damage or anything else. So it looks great to me.

You could mitigate the guiding issue a bit by narrowing the angle vertically (kinda like how you've reduced vertical spread in all of the shotguns in the game). You could have 45 degree angle horizontally to make it work with glancing shots but say, a 35 degree angle vertically so a cannon shell wouldn't detonate prematurely on a structure piece that was placed directly under a decor piece. Most of the decor armor in this game is used explicitly as side armor.

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On 5/26/2019 at 10:13 AM, Psiholozeus said:

These are the features I like the most:

The fix seems fair, just in terms of realism

 

These are the features that I don't like:

You let YOUR players to invest coins in such things for months (not sure, maybe even more than a year), and then take their usage

Almost similar with the relic fragments, when you again let your loyal players (some of them filled your pockets for those relics) to invest coins, then remove them and give worthless compensations

 

Conclusion

Shame on you. 

You should consider this, you can't just take things from your players, you need to give something back, because just taking is called THEFT!

 

I really want to remind people that this game is in OPEN BETA, we all know what that means, but i will elaborate.

Open beta means the game is in a state of public testing, where the developers claim every right to change the game in any way, even in its core mechanics. The fallout caused by such changes is in no way related to the right reserved to change the game in said ways. If the developers decide to delete the whole game tomorrow and make He**o K*tty Fun Island out of it, you can whine about it all you want, but you cannot make any claims about getting your times worth back or your money and the like. It is stated everywhere that this game is in open beta and hence prone to massive changes in not just balancing but even core gameplay in the future. If you spent money on this game, like many of us did, it might seem unfair. But i personally spend money on the game knowing there can be huge changes at any time, and that's what i want to see. I am investing in a great finished game in the future, and not playing some half finished something.

And to be very clear, being able to use decor armor is a MASSIVE advantage for hovers once again, because you can make them immensely tanky without making them the tiniest bit slower. The last rework of the hovers intended to trade off tonnage for max. speed, like it does for all suspensions in the game. But the decor armor works around it and leaves all other suspension types with yet another big gap in performance. That said, decor armor on spiderlegs and wheels just makes them as tanky aswell and gives a big advantage to builds that actually use structure parts. So its bad in any way, but especially when it comes to balancing out hovers versus everything else.

By fixing the decor to not have ANY impact on armoring up your vehicle, hovers and every other suspension type in this game would be really well balanced.

And it is not like the idea of spaced armor gets lost in a fix. You can perfectly well space your aormor with normal structure parts, you just won't be AS fast as with decor.

Things like decor armor and wedges are simple exploits, and should be pointed out as such. Saying its an intended and fair mechanic is just a lazy excuse to keep a very unfair advantage.

I'm not talking about logic here. There alot of things in games like crossout that don't seem logical, but are perfectly fine considering balancing and gameplay (like shotguns having a 20m range in many shooter games). But there is a distinct difference between unlogical gamemechanics that make sense in terms of fair gameplay and simple exploits that work around restrictions or use lacking engine capabilities.

Sorry for writing yet another wall of text when this should be a short Good/Bad comment section.

 

Thank you for reading,

GK

Edited by GKFreshD
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1 hour ago, GKFreshD said:

I really want to remind people that this game is in OPEN BETA, we all know what that means, but i will elaborate.

Open beta means the game is in a state of public testing, where the developers claim every right to change the game in any way, even in its core mechanics. The fallout caused by such changes is in no way related to the right reserved to change the game in said ways. If the developers decide to delete the whole game tomorrow and make He**o K*tty Fun Island out of it, you can whine about it all you want, but you cannot make any claims about getting your times worth back or your money and the like. It is stated everywhere that this game is in open beta and hence prone to massive changes in not just balancing but even core gameplay in the future. If you spent money on this game, like many of us did, it might seem unfair. But i personally spend money on the game knowing there can be huge changes at any time, and that's what i want to see. I am investing in a great finished game in the future, and not playing some half finished something.

And to be very clear, being able to use decor armor is a MASSIVE advantage for hovers once again, because you can make them immensely tanky without making them the tiniest bit slower. The last rework of the hovers intended to trade off tonnage for max. speed, like it does for all suspensions in the game. But the decor armor works around it and leaves all other suspension types with yet another big gap in performance. That said, decor armor on spiderlegs and wheels just makes them as tanky aswell and gives a big advantage to builds that actually use structure parts. So its bad in any way, but especially when it comes to balancing out hovers versus everything else.

By fixing the decor to not have ANY impact on armoring up your vehicle, hovers and every other suspension type in this game would be really well balanced.

And it is not like the idea of spaced armor gets lost in a fix. You can perfectly well space your aormor with normal structure parts, you just won't be AS fast as with decor.

Things like decor armor and wedges are simple exploits, and should be pointed out as such. Saying its an intended and fair mechanic is just a lazy excuse to keep a very unfair advantage.

I'm not talking about logic here. There alot of things in games like crossout that don't seem logical, but are perfectly fine considering balancing and gameplay (like shotguns having a 20m range in many shooter games). But there is a distinct difference between unlogical gamemechanics that make sense in terms of fair gameplay and simple exploits that work around restrictions or use lacking engine capabilities.

Sorry for writing yet another wall of text when this should be a short Good/Bad comment section.

 

Thank you for reading,

GK

I want  to remind you that Crossout has been in "beta" for at least 3 years now.

I also want to remind you that "beta" doesn't mean anything to a non-nerd person. 

If a user goes to the main crossout page, https://crossout.net/#/, the'll see language like "Play for free MMO".

Go here, nothing about the "beta", https://crossout.net/en/game/about/#/.

Nowhere on any of these page does it advertise "beta" or "testing" or anything like that. 

The only place you'll see the word "beta" is on the news page, https://crossout.net/en/news/#/, where it says Crossout has been in Open Beta Testing for 2 years now.

Saying the game is in beta testing, for 2 years, is a con. People pay cash for products and not betas. https://store.gaijin.net/storefront.php?skin_lang=en&category=Crossout

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