Woodyrojo

[Developer blog] Vehicle repairs. Mass testing

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bjkalderon (Posted 20 hours ago) 

 

At the moment it's not planned to be included in the PvP. We consider a number of possible implementations for this mechanic - raids, special brawls etc.

and when exactly are you supposed to repair in raid? with the current state of raids, i really dont see any time window where you can safely sit somewhere for half a minute and wait for your car to slowly re-assemble. either raider waves are pouring in like rain, or your truck will be too far away to reach it again in a reasonable time. 

only use for full repair would be bedlam where nothing matters anyway, and adventure mode (maybe greatly accelerated repairs if you're next to one of those workshops). 

if it ever makes it way into pvp/cw/brawls, restored items have to be significantly worse than the original part, almost to the point of being useless. 

Edited by forc3dinduction
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This is a terrible idea, and very obviously due to the scorpion. A lot of people have already pointed out how repairs broke robocraft, but to go even further, I think it's worth looking at a game that used repairing well: Hawken, and what's different about it.

And for the record, devs, Hawken's dead, so don't get your hopes up:

 

Hawken was a mech arena shooter with the option for any mech in the game to stop, pull its pants down, and heal. It was an integral part of the combat, and knowing how to catch and punish enemy players as they healed within their huddle was a big part of the game, on a conceptual level. But in crossout, this would just be dumb. As in, your brain would literally not get used and I'll tell you why: in crossout, you can be crippled. In Hawken, you cannot. You just have a healthbar. And you might be thinking "but wait, that's exactly why we need repairs; to deal with losing wheels, and so on." And it's not, it's exactly why they're a terrible idea. In hawken, I can have low HP, and with that low HP I'll have to pick between running, fighting, or healing A-S-A-P. But in crossout? If I really need to heal, I probably don't have any legs to walk on to begin with. I'm not choosing between running, fighting, and healing. It's not a judgement call. And that's what I mean when I say you literally would not use your brain. It's bad in the way, say, an overpowered weapon would be; even if everyone has it and it's "fair," everyone knows that choosing it is the "true option" and in that sense the meta goes stale. There's no "playstyle"anymore, you just have a game that plays itself while people watch. Like if I were to get caught healing and killed, I wouldn't be like "woah, he got me, good counterplay." It would be like "well that's how it goes, healing was still my best choice anyways."

 
17 hours ago, Omega616 said:

Self-repair does seem excessive, especially with no similar feature preceding it, but if such a major change is being introduced, it must be necessary for financial reasons.

If it were necessary, they wouldn't be asking for our advice.

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[the rest of the post]

Good job making space between all those adjectives and introductory phrases to namedrop like half the weapons in the game, without even once mentioning the scorpion. 

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The surprise implementation of a repair feature like this must be so that new players are not put off by their car being constantly disabled and subsequently killed early into the match.

It's the scorpion.

 

You know what? This is a scorpion thread now, I'm taking it. 

Double scorp does 560 damage to the first layer it hits. That's ten times the health of a light 8x4, the third healthiest frame in the game.
Double scorp does 484 through three layers of armor, to the fourth layer. That's just over ten times the health of a heavy 4x4, the fourth healthiest frame in the game.
Double scorp does 429 through six layers of armor, to the seventh layer. That's just over ten times the health of a heavy 4x4, the fifth healthiest frame in the game.

It's so abundantly clear that having the scorpion do only 1/10th damage to frames, as normal weapons do, would be fine.

Like the prior, the sixth-healthiest frame in the game would also break through six pannels, then the next frame could be broken through seven, next eight, next nine, and then the last frame, the light 2x4, could be broken all the way through thirteen layers of armor, at the twinscorp's max depth of fourteen, thereby retaining the stat's relevance.

Sure, you wouldn't be able to oneshot heavy 6 and 8x4, plus a light 8x4 would require a direct hit to be broken instantly, so it'd likely take two shots as well. But, considering that as-is I can just replace an 8x4 with four smaller parts if I want to already, taking two shots is fine. I'm sure even then, scorp users would rather I used twoshot 8x4 panels than a bunch of smaller ones. Really, just fix the frame damage instead of this repair kit ideaguy stuff. Maybe even trim off some of the accuracy while moving to boot afterward, if that's not enough.

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At the moment it's not planned to be included in the PvP. We consider a number of possible implementations for this mechanic - raids, special brawls etc.

Haha yeah OK. Scorp gets buffed, people get deframed, and two days later we get a repair function on the test server. Not at all suspicious. 

Edited by XR57
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My opinion on this is, make it a Team ability (COOP-REPAIR) !

Just like this:  your teammate goes next to you, and holds P near your , repairs you for the time he/she presses it.

Similar to activating generators in Raids, your mate can slightly move and shoot, but also hold down P to repair you.

EGO-Repair should only be added if no teammate is alive.

VOTE your favorite idea here:

 

Edited by Cathy_Toshlyra
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46 minutes ago, forc3dinduction said:

bjkalderon (Posted 20 hours ago) 

 

At the moment it's not planned to be included in the PvP. We consider a number of possible implementations for this mechanic - raids, special brawls etc.

and when exactly are you supposed to repair in raid? with the current state of raids, i really dont see any time window where you can safely sit somewhere for half a minute and wait for your car to slowly re-assemble. either raider waves are pouring in like rain, or your truck will be too far away to reach it again in a reasonable time. 

only use for full repair would be bedlam where nothing matters anyway, and adventure mode (maybe greatly accelerated repairs if you're next to one of those workshops). 

if it ever makes it way into pvp/cw/brawls, restored items have to be significantly worse than the original part, almost to the point of being useless. 

Or maybe in battle royal. Currently, parts of vehicle are indestructible.
Making parts in battle royal destructible after adding this feature would work well.

Edited by VisceraCleaner

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4 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

Or maybe in battle royal. Currently, parts of vehicle are indestructible.
Making parts in battle royal destructible after adding this feature would work well.

you obviously never played the BR mode in this game (no worries, you didnt miss a thing), or you never found one of those repair kits. 

Edited by forc3dinduction

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This is totally fine for Raids. But in PVP it´s one of the worst decissions you could make. I will give you some examples.

 

1.) You are in regular match you are the last man on your team and you have 3 crippled opponents you are able to get their guns off. But hey, two off them are hovers and you are just a tank so they just fly away, repair and kill you. What was once a clever play, to degun enemys ,is now nothing more than a joke to them. Slow builds will fall off the board, cause they are not able to fall back and repair fast. Degunning what was once a big part in this game is no longer a problem, you can drive careless and good aim is no longer rewarded.  

2.) Next scenario. Clanwars: let´s take the bridge map as example. Just for this example let´s say there are 8 Tsunamispiders. They trading shots One Tsunami is losing a gun . So it just walks back repairs it and comes back with two healty, cannons but wait the other players needed ammo to take it off, they don´t get the ammo back they needed to do so. This will bring two things to the CW, annoying long peak and shoot runs in what you don´t have to care about the aim off your opponents cause if you loose something it doesnt even matter, you just walk back and repair it. Good shooting, risky plays and amunition management are jokes right now cause you get nothing out of degunning an ememy beside loosing your munition.

3.) In this case we´ll take a look at pve raids: All around a great idea, you don´t have to destroy yourself when you loose a gun or a wheel. Example here is the retcher guy in a hard raid, he is able to hit your weapons and degun you. Normal case just explode and com back with a repair kit and spawn unlucky in an enemy horde of raiders. You get deguned again. But with this clever tool of yours you can go to a save place  repair yourself without problems and come back and get the raid done without problems.

I have some more scenarios but this should be enough for the moment.

 

Keep up your good work Gajiin but pls don´t implement this feature into Pvp

 

GOA

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even if you said, that there is no plan to add it in pvp, i am still kinda allarmed by the fact you even considered to add this feature in the game.

 

here is why its a rly bad feature in pvp;

1- youll negate any kind of long range harrasment, as people will be able to go back in cover and fully heal, and the good plays will not be able to be capitalized bcs of that, is just a newbie feature to allow bad plays to get away without being punished.

2- weapons with limited ammo will see their shots being nulified by a free feature, while they will just waste ammo.

3- bcs of the stall youll create on long range fights or pikaboo plays, the only way to end a game will be thru a yolo play as that will be the only way to avoid people from recovering, removing any kind of potential good play where you deal dmg while avoiding it to weak them before the final push.

4-overall its a newbie feature to close the gap between good and bad plays, right now if you get hit the fault is entirely yours, this forces players to improve map awarness and trading skills.

Edited by Adeonxx
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1 hour ago, forc3dinduction said:

you obviously never played the BR mode in this game (no worries, you didnt miss a thing), or you never found one of those repair kits. 

I mean, as you know, anything is indestructible in battle royal. Currently, whenever, wherever the vehicle gets hit, it loses total hp of vehicle, not hp of individual parts.
That's fine but making parts destructible will make game more interesting. But for that, there should be repair mechanism.
In PUBG, there is a DBNO. I think if we can make vehicle crippled, that will be more intense.

Repairing parts only with repair kit or Boosting repair with repair kit, whatever.
And in my opinion, there should be more parts and ammo. Maybe wheels, cabins...

Edited by VisceraCleaner

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DEVS! Instead of wasting time on the new game mechanics, first take care of the MM System !!! It is full of holes like Swiss cheese.
First, repair the MM System instead of bringing in auto repair of the vehicles in the game - which in my opinion will make matches even more dishonest.
Here are some examples of how the MM System is broken.screenshot-190625-025056.thumb.jpg.303b4
screenshot-190624-074752.thumb.jpg.25064screenshot-190624-003456.thumb.jpg.01e4b

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10 hours ago, XR57 said:

And you might be thinking "but wait, that's exactly why we need repairs; to deal with losing wheels, and so on." And it's not, it's exactly why they're a terrible idea. In hawken, I can have low HP, and with that low HP I'll have to pick between running, fighting, or healing A-S-A-P. But in crossout? If I really need to heal, I probably don't have any legs to walk on to begin with. I'm not choosing between running, fighting, and healing. It's not a judgement call.

Also the repair system in its current form has a balance problem where it favors low-durability movement parts.

 

The repair system in the test server repairs your movement parts first. If you have relatively fragile movement parts you can actually repair them rather quickly and then run to a safer place for a more complete repair operation. However if your Goliath or tank build is missing its movement parts you'll likely never have a chance to recover in the first place because it takes forever to repair those high-durability movement parts which the repair system will go for first.

 

Repairing just your rare wheels or hovers is possible if you manage to drag your corpse just around the corner. You can then use your regenerated movement parts to properly relocate somewhere else. A scenario like that simply isn't possible with more durable movement parts.

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I just came here to say that this is a terrible idea, but I see there's a crowd already. Fix scorps damage to frames instead of pretending it's a feature and coding a bandaid.

Edited by Clebardman
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Without looking at spesifics I see this will be a major change in game. Perhaps biggest I've seen in these 2 years I've played. I look forward to it. I like changes as then it allows you to try and learn new things.

I wonder a bit why so many oppose it. Good players should have the ability to adjust any changes.

 

Briefly looking at the spesifics, this will also do a little bit of balance changes, in right direction. I didn't notice this until now but perhaps this is the first test server run I will participate in.

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19 hours ago, PurdooSix said:

I wonder a bit why so many oppose it. Good players should have the ability to adjust any changes.

Maybe because we're here to play a car brawl post apoc game and not some peekaboo on hovers where you shoot once every 30s, between repairs and cloaks.

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15 hours ago, Clebardman said:

Maybe because we're here to play a car brawl post apoc game and not some peekaboo on hovers where you shoot once every 30s, between repairs and cloaks.

If you do that, how do you expect to win? A lot of high PS gameplay is quite camping already, but I don't see it being the thing that makes you win.

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It is already been said,:002: they are not plan to use the repair on PvP. After all the respond from all the posts. I do not think they will add it to PvP.  Why we are still so work-up about what repair will do on PvP?

I don't mind the repair, but same as most players here, I do not think it will benefit the PvP mode.  I do wonder what other game mode they have planned.:002:

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4 hours ago, PurdooSix said:

I wonder a bit why so many oppose it. Good players should have the ability to adjust any changes.

Because it kills anything but the fastest and most agile movement options. We had this **** in robocraft....in battle repair just gives the fastest and most agile movement options an insurmountable adavantage that you simple cannot balance anymore.

We just recently moved into a bit of movement diversity in Crossout... lets not kill it.

 

15 minutes ago, ChopChopChop said:

It is already been said,:002: they are not plan to use the repair on PvP

I hope for their sake that they keep true of that word. :dry:

 

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12 hours ago, PurdooSix said:

Without looking at spesifics I see this will be a major change in game. Perhaps biggest I've seen in these 2 years I've played. I look forward to it. I like changes as then it allows you to try and learn new things.

I wonder a bit why so many oppose it. Good players should have the ability to adjust any changes.

 

Briefly looking at the spesifics, this will also do a little bit of balance changes, in right direction. I didn't notice this until now but perhaps this is the first test server run I will participate in.

 

Change can be good or bad. In this case it's bad for a multitude of reasons, the primary one being that it would be a massive nerf to all stripping weapons.

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On 6/29/2019 at 5:30 PM, Spedemix said:

Also the repair system in its current form has a balance problem where it favors low-durability movement parts.

 

The repair system in the test server repairs your movement parts first. If you have relatively fragile movement parts you can actually repair them rather quickly and then run to a safer place for a more complete repair operation. However if your Goliath or tank build is missing its movement parts you'll likely never have a chance to recover in the first place because it takes forever to repair those high-durability movement parts which the repair system will go for first.

 

Repairing just your rare wheels or hovers is possible if you manage to drag your corpse just around the corner. You can then use your regenerated movement parts to properly relocate somewhere else. A scenario like that simply isn't possible with more durable movement parts.

GOT IT! Make a 14 spear build (we need Cheetah and Chameleon of course) with detachable Apollo that runs on 12 buggy wheels.

Invisible -> Spear player -> Run -> Repair -> Invisible -> Spear player -> Repeat

See, I didn't even have to test it to know what the new meta will be.:014:

Forfeit your cannons you limited ammo plebs, for I will be GOD!

Edited by lucashc90
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7 minutes ago, lucashc90 said:

GOT IT! Make a 14 spear build (we need Cheetah and Chameleon of course) with detachable Apollo that runs on 12 buggy wheels.

Invisible -> Spear player -> Run -> Repair -> Invisible -> Spear player -> Repeat

See, I didn't even have to test it to know what the new meta will be.:014:

Forfeit your cannons you limited ammo plebs, for I will be GOD!

Disgusting :dntknw:

But ya right

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Relax guys and gals. It's just the fools day joke that got delayed.:my_precious:

 

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2 hours ago, *Jomar_SL said:

Relax guys and gals. It's just the fools day joke that got delayed.:my_precious:

 

Ok:good:

 

 

 

 

 

:005j:

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On 6/28/2019 at 8:08 AM, Pandalius said:

Ehh, hard to say if this would be a good feature. On the one hand, it's nice to be able to heal during a game so that you don't have to sit out with two wheel and just nudge a wall. However, peaking builds will be a pain to deal with now with games potentially going on with no one dying.

I mean, if you are weak, you better run, then come out later and try to peak again. It would be like a game of chicken in a lot of cases. Not sure if this would be great to have, as the pace of combat could go way down.

I guess we'll see.

Matches are timed. Someone gonna move or a tie is gonna happen. I think this feature will help immensly with the so called camping meta

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6 hours ago, lucashc90 said:

Invisible -> Spear player -> Run -> Repair -> Invisible -> Spear player -> Repeat

Spears cease to explode upon being repaired. I don't know if this includes instances where they didn't explode in the first place though, but if you blow a spear up on someone then repair it, you only get a dead version back.

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Here's the reason why you simply cannot put this into a PvP at least in its current form:

 

Spoiler

 

That's a 12K spider and an 11K hover. These crafts would fight each other in PvP. The hover regenerates twice as fast as the spider.

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