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45 minutes ago, XR57 said:

So are you saying the typical player is bad? Because your stats were below typical, you know, so blaming them doesn't make your situation any better.

No, the average player does on average (So expect about 1 kill and then primarily assists in PvP. Maybe they'll do better depending on what happens. I'm an average player or maybe just above average.). There is are lower tierd of player known as the complete idiot that is actively bad, they'll do stuff like push their allies around, wedge their allies, ignore objectives, or swarm a disarmed bot for the kill even as their team being melted and the complete no0b who can't be trusted to fight bots well.

23 minutes ago, lucashc90 said:

In his defence your typical randos are not usually the brightest when it comes to strategy and teamplay. Even I have somedays seem to be braindead AT BEST and we all know how a single player can put the team above or under the ground. One death means the round will be played 7x8, forcing the remainers to play 1,125 times better instead: either someone kills 2 guys or the score will keep getting worse for the weaker team.

Yep. I try to help and support others when I can in PvP but when I need help they're often off killing a player that they had just disarmed 20 seconds ago. A teammate will call for help because they see a single enemy player while I'm busy fighting 2-3 players without calling for help.

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4 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

No, the average player does average

Which means the average team does average. Which means the average team can't put you below average. Which means the average team is not an excuse for your MvP rate being below average.

Quote

(lucashc90)

In his defence your typical randos are not usually the brightest when it comes to strategy and teamplay. Even I have somedays seem to be braindead AT BEST and we all know how a single player can put the team above or under the ground. One death means the round will be played 7x8, forcing the remainers to play 1,125 times better instead: either someone kills 2 guys or the score will keep getting worse for the weaker team.

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying the average XO player is good. But, if you're doing mathematically worse than average, then the average player can't be what's mathematically dragging you down. If someone has a 20% MvP rate and they claim "man, I'd have a higher winrate if not for these randos," then that makes sense. But if someone's below 6.25% and they blame randos, despite being worse than randos, then that's not quite right.

Dunning%20Kruger%20Chart.jpg?itok=BNNfmc

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2 minutes ago, XR57 said:

Which means the average team does average. Which means the average team can't put you below average. Which means the average team is not an excuse for your MvP rate being below average.

Players aren't grouped by competency. I can end up in a team with 3 players that kill the enemy too fast for anyone else to help them, 2 average players, and 3 players that can't even kill bots.

It's also very easier to be dragged down by an incompetent idiot than it is for you to carry them. A KPB rate of 2.0 is not average since there are only 8 players and/or bots on a team (And 2/8 is 1/4.) and KPB is very easily fudged I could spend a few days fighting bots and raise my KPB quickly.

7 minutes ago, XR57 said:

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying the average XO player is good. But, if you're doing mathematically worse than average, then the average player can't be what's mathematically dragging you down. If someone has a 20% MvP rate and they claim "man, I'd have a higher winrate if not for these randos," then that makes sense. But if someone's below 6.25% and they blame randos, despite being worse than randos, then that's not quite right.

Dunning%20Kruger%20Chart.jpg?itok=BNNfmc

Why are you focused on my MVP percentage?

MVP is determined by you winning and getting the most points. I could get 5 kills as the last player on my team but as long as the other team won then I didn't get a MVP patch. And since it's far easier to get dragged down that drag everyone up, it's very easy to lose because an idiot using drones chases a lancer for 4.5 minutes straight instead of helping their team.

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Ah, the good old Dunning-Kruger effect - never seen it as a graph, though. Interesting...

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Yup always the same sort people using it as argument not knowing it doesn't exist :015:

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29 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

Players aren't grouped by competency.

Which is why I said average, stupid.

29 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

A KPB rate of 2.0 is not average since there are only 8 players and/or bots on a team (And 2/8 is 1/4.) and KPB is very easily fudged I could spend a few days fighting bots and raise my KPB quickly.

Hahahahaaha are you this mathematically inept? Do you just mash numbers together at random? Why would "2/8ths being 1/4th" mean that killing 1/4th the enemy team per game is not "average?" That's only one kill and one assist per game, including any bot enemies you kill. That's average. You're just wiping your hand across your numpad like something good will come from it.

29 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

Why are you focused on my MVP percentage?

MVP is determined by you winning and getting the most points. I could get 5 kills as the last player on my team but as long as the other team won then I didn't get a MVP patch. And since it's far easier to get dragged down that drag everyone up, it's very easy to lose because an idiot using drones chases a lancer for 4.5 minutes straight instead of helping their team.

No, that's wrong. It's far easier to get dragged up than it is to get dragged down, if your performance is below average. If your performance is below average, that means the average player is doing better than you are, and is therefore carrying you, not dragging you down. You are, on average, being carried. Do not blame other people for your stats: with where your stats are, it's a statistical fact that other people are helping you.

Edited by XR57

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5 minutes ago, Qurzo said:

Yup always the same sort people using it as argument not knowing it doesn't exist :015:

Edited by XR57

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1 minute ago, XR57 said:

Kruger, Justin; Dunning, David (1999). "Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments". Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. 77 (6): 1121–1134. CiteSeerX 10.1.1.64.2655. doi:10.1037/0022-3514.77.6.1121. PMID 10626367.

Yarkoni, Tal (7 July 2010). "What the Dunning–Kruger effect Is and Isn't". Retrieved 28 July2017.

Haha, thats fast, google bit further maybe you will find why it doesn't exist :)

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Factual evidence on my side, none on yours:

dunning_kruger.png

Everyone except the top quartile overrates themselves. Statistical fact. You can also see that noone's rating themselves below 50, despite the fact that half of them are by-definition below 50.

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48 minutes ago, XR57 said:

Oh, absolutely. I'm not saying the average XO player is good. But, if you're doing mathematically worse than average, then the average player can't be what's mathematically dragging you down. If someone has a 20% MvP rate and they claim "man, I'd have a higher winrate if not for these randos," then that makes sense. But if someone's below 6.25% and they blame randos, despite being worse than randos, then that's not quite right.

Dunning%20Kruger%20Chart.jpg?itok=BNNfmc

Jesus dude, you brought a graphic to the discussion? THAT is commitment to the couse (and the cause being roasting others).

My sides hurt...

Anyway, just dragging it a bit further: it is difficult to score MvP as a support build, at least it is what I believe in because of my triple Aurora build ofter getting 7~8 assists and still staying bellow the 50% of that match despite hitting weapons and cabins to the point they start flaming. I imagine that other weapons like Mandrake suffers from the same problem. 

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2 minutes ago, XR57 said:

Factual evidence on my side, none on yours:

dunning_kruger.png

Everyone except the top quartile overrates themselves. Statistical fact. You can also see that noone's rating themselves below 50, despite the fact that half of them are by-definition below 50.

Getting warm....

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1 minute ago, Qurzo said:

Getting warm....

You do know that the graphic I posted, was from the citation I posted earlier, right? How am I getting warmer if I'm reposting the same thing? That doesn't make sense. Stop acting. I can see through fake confidence.

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1 minute ago, XR57 said:

You do know that the graphic I posted, was from the citation I posted earlier, right? How am I getting warmer if I'm reposting the same thing? That doesn't make sense. Stop acting. I can see through fake confidence.

Oh I thought you started to understand what that graphic tells you about this theory. 

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5 hours ago, Qurzo said:

Oh I thought you started to understand what that graphic tells you about this theory. 

Really? It took you 10 minutes to write that? That's how much getting caught acting slows you down? What ever happened to you saying that the effect wasn't real? Because now you're saying that the graphic is meaningful, and that I just need to understand it right, but earlier you were saying that the effect just wasn't real. You know that the graphic is from a study by David Dunning and Justin Kruger, right? Come on now, hurry it up. If you're not presenting an act, you shouldn't take so long :^)

Edited by XR57
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seeyaqurzo.png.4c0c638040113877c51e36f7d

 

aaaaaaaand Qurzo has left the channel! Boom! Byebye!

Edited by XR57
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Just to be clear...

Dunning-Kruger effect isn't a theory, it is a scientifically observable cognitive bias.

I know it is horribly inconvenient for stupid people, but it happens.

Edited by _f0r3v3r_
Don't worry, I am probably stupid, too. =)
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2 hours ago, XR57 said:

Really? It took you 10 minutes to write that? That's how much getting caught acting slows you down? What ever happened to you saying that the effect wasn't real? Because now you're saying that the graphic is meaningful, and that I just need to understand it right, but earlier you were saying that the effect just wasn't real. You know that the graphic is from as study by David Dunning and Justin Kruger, right? Come on now, hurry it up. If you're not presenting an act, you shouldn't take so long :^)

We already know you can google, but still don't understand it do you? Statistics like DK effect are interesting but they don't say anything about a individual. Thats why it doesn't exist for an individual person. 

Sorry I interrupted your roasting Sigma thing. Stage is for you again.

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33 minutes ago, Qurzo said:

Sorry I interrupted your roasting Sigma thing. Stage is for you again.

Thanks, I appreciate it :^)

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3 hours ago, XR57 said:

Which is why I said average, stupid.

Except that there is no such thing as an average team, there are average players but no such teams exist unless the game's MMing specifically forms them.

3 hours ago, XR57 said:

Hahahahaaha are you this mathematically inept? Do you just mash numbers together at random? Why would "2/8ths being 1/4th" mean that killing 1/4th the enemy team per game is not "average?" That's only one kill and one assist per game, including any bot enemies you kill. That's average. You're just wiping your hand across your numpad like something good will come from it.

An average player should be expected to get 1 kill and then any assists (Be it 0 or 7.). That's a base of 1 that's further modified by however much you do after that. You're math for an average player is assuming that 1 assist is guaranteed.

3 hours ago, XR57 said:

No, that's wrong. It's far easier to get dragged up than it is to get dragged down, if your performance is below average. If your performance is below average, that means the average player is doing better than you are, and is therefore carrying you, not dragging you down. You are, on average, being carried. Do not blame other people for your stats: with where your stats are, it's a statistical fact that other people are helping you.

No it isn't. That was the main problem with the tank events where a single idiot that decided he was a master sniper could cost his team a win because he turned a 6v6 into a 5v6. The same goes for someone in PvP, complete idiots can and will drag you down. 

If I do bad because I made a mistake then it's my fault. If my team melts because there were several complete idiots in it and it turns from an 8v8 to an Xv8 then I cannot be blamed for that. 

3 hours ago, lucashc90 said:

Jesus dude, you brought a graphic to the discussion? THAT is commitment to the couse (and the cause being roasting others).

My sides hurt...

Anyway, just dragging it a bit further: it is difficult to score MvP as a support build, at least it is what I believe in because of my triple Aurora build ofter getting 7~8 assists and still staying bellow the 50% of that match despite hitting weapons and cabins to the point they start flaming. I imagine that other weapons like Mandrake suffers from the same problem. 

Better than what he usually brings which is repeating what he said before and screaming that you're stupid.

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59 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

Except that there is no such thing as an average team

Dude, do you know what "average" means? I'm not saying that like, there's some squad of dudes, living in some house, named "the average team." I'm talking about the average team; I'm talking about how teams, on average, perform. 

59 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

An average player should be expected to get 1 kill and then any assists (Be it 0 or 7.). That's a base of 1 that's further modified by however much you do after that. You're math for an average player is assuming that 1 assist is guaranteed.

If you think getting one assist is so hard then you are really freaking bad dude. And why are you going back to KD still? I've been talking about your MvP rate, which is below average, because you are below average, which means, on average, your team is better than you, because that's what being below average means.

59 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

Better than what he usually brings which is repeating what he said before and screaming that you're stupid.

Read this sentence but a little bit more slowly, okay? You're accusing me of repeating myself... and saying I'm screaming... which is repeating yourself. 

Edit: I was looking for more "screaming" and oh man is this a good one:

Sigma writes, "Hardly, I'm one of the most sarcastic and pessimistic people I know."

"One of the most pessimistic people I know."

Evidently not pessimistic enough to see that you're bad you complete and utter fraud lmao

Edited by XR57

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11 minutes ago, XR57 said:

Dude, do you know what "average" means? I'm not saying that like, there's some squad of dudes, living in some house, named "the average team." I'm talking about the average team; I'm talking about how teams, on average, perform. 

That depends entirely on their make up. One with 4 players who know what they're doing and 4 average players will stand a much better chance of success than one that's filled with half complete idiots and half that are average. That make up changes constantly and will affect how the team does.

14 minutes ago, XR57 said:

If you think getting one assist is so hard then you are really freaking bad dude. And why are you going back to KD still? I've been talking about your MvP rate, which is below average, because you are below average, which means, on average, your team is better than you, because that's what being below average means.

Getting an assist isn't hard. That doesn't make them happen. It's easy to strip someone of their weapons and then leave them to be mopped up, unless they die in the next 15 seconds after you've done any damage to them however you're getting no assist.

And now you're going to my MVP rate because you can't argue your point. You do realize that MVP just means you got the most points and your team won, right? I could get get 4 kills, my team wins, and still not get the MVP because another player got a single point more than me.

27 minutes ago, XR57 said:

Read this sentence but a little bit more slowly, okay? You're accusing me of repeating myself... and saying I'm screaming... which is repeating yourself. 

Why are you bring up evidence against yourself?

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Yup! That's how I get sigma to post. Wait for an hour with him in the thread; nothing. I log out for a second and BOOM there's a post. And BOOM he's gone again. Because he's too scared to make this a live conversation. That's how much of a weasel this guy is.

7 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

Why are you bring up evidence against yourself?

Like when you posted your own sub 2% mvp rate? lmao. It's not evidence against myself; it's evidence you repeat yourself. Each linked post has the word "screaming" in it.

9 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

That depends

if

unless

I could

Those are called anecdotes

But looking at averages, instead of anecdotes, you are below average, you fake bad wannabee "pessimist"

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41 minutes ago, dexterrrrrrr said:

Seriously though, what crawled up your snatch?

Netflix's Evangelion sub was just so bad I decided it was my duty to take it out on other people

 

jameson.gif

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18 hours ago, XR57 said:

 

"My argument is, that I'm too dumb to figure anything out, and therefore I don't trust anyone else to figure anything out."

Your problem bub. 

Not quite.  My argument is that there is no reasonable logic to argue something is about to change in a way that no one can predict. Especially using a flaw way to make calculation how they are priced now. 

18 hours ago, XR57 said:

God you just write gibberish. 

No, obviously I'm not saying MvP rate relates to "market skill." or vice versa. Regarding droprates though, Sigma was claiming he had over a 50% winrate earlier though, which is clearly not true given his stats. Think about it like this, right? You have 50/50 chance of winning a game, if you're average. Maybe you're not average, but this is what a perfectly standard winrate is: 50/50. Obviously. Then, you have 8 teammates. If you are all equally good, you have a 1/8th chance of getting MvP from them. You have a 50/50 chance to win, and then within that 50%, 1/8th of it is an "average MvP rate." That's 6.25%, assuming you only should be expected to get it 1/8th of your wins. It should probably be higher considering all the bots, but 6.25% is still over three times sigma's MvP rate. It makes no statistical sense to say he wins most his games.

19 hours ago, XR57 said:

well you have a 2% MvP Rate so clearly you can't understand the basics of the game lmao, if I'm screaming at least I'm not crying like you are

Obviously, the above line is what you meant about the MvP rate is link to win rate which link to understanding market/craft in game.

 

Edited by ChopChopChop

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