ZERGOR

Raids are not fun: New raids ideas

Recommended Posts

Since I can't get my thread to be aproved, I will leave it here for the sake or argumentation:

On 7/11/2019 at 3:54 PM, lucashc90 said:

Cargo Race and Heist were 4 minutes (and they were timed) but they were more challenging IMO. Bring the wrong tool for the job and you were done! It was a time that I actually had one build made specifically for each type of raid.

Nowadays you spend 10~15 minutes on a raid that is a almost guarantee to win and it is monotonous at best and you can do all of them with the same vehicle because the formula is basically the same (shoot waves of raiders, complete objective, rinse and repeat until the end of it).

If devs make them harder no one will play because no one wants to waste 60 fuel on a 15 min raid only to lose on the last couple of minutes (like it was with the "protect the truck" raids when they were more fragile). If they were shorter and cost half the fuel, even if they were harder, people would enjoy playing because they would actually risk something (besides spending 15 minutes in front of the PC for nothing) and be able to come back in 2~4 minutes for another try.

Since its always hard to appease everyone, maybe it is time to revive the old raids and make them cycle alongside the current ones even if it means they will give half the rewards (chase included). Half the job is already done since they already existed, just needing minor tweaks here and there to get on with the current builds of the game.

12 (or at least 9) types of raids to chose from hourly sure sounds more enticing than the same old 6 doesn't it? AND with the new "play raids with any number of players" feature makes it even more feasible.

 What do you guys think?

 

Edited by lucashc90
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the old days i made a pretty in depth raid guide and I loved running em there were alot of different strategies you needed to use vs different faction. Now they all feel kinda bland. It's basically slow campy process when before it was like tactical speed runs and didnt feel like a chore. There have been some changes I like but more or less the bots either feel non threatening or they focus the objective (usually the truck in convo escort) way too quickly.

Also with the "challenges" shop with badges they raids rewards feel pathetic for the cost of gas. It's hard to even get 4 players in a lobby sometimes. I think players need to get more fuel so they can raid more or the cost of fuel per mission needs to go down. Spending 60 fuel for 5 electronic parts is barely a fair exchange.

  • Thanks 4
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yesterday i make hard raid for electronics i got 7 or 8 with the  premium scaner and you need 750 to build an items on event ...and if you want lvl up a driver to lvl 15 you need 2000 that is very hard ... and sometimes are raids begin with 2 players and some join after it last time i played raid only with 3 player... 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good ideas i like them, i playing this game since launch and until this day i still playing pvp , clan wars and pve for weekly chelenges , i want to address one thing that really bugging me and i pretty much everyone in raids it's the horrific just terrible thing called bot hp SCALING , i do enjoy the main aspect of this game to create your own vehicle with lot hp and good strong guns BUT  sadly if i create powerful machine with high ps like 12k and i go into raids, the raid makes you feel like your gun dealing next to no damage like chord white machine gun, since bots have monstrous hp pool and shooting them is just no fun all they have is naked cabin with 8000 hp pool and blue weapon that deal 20x more damage then legendary or relict weapon , the raids discourage you from evolving your vehicle and forcing you to play on 6k ps with 4 vectors mg . So i want to make suggestion remove scaling from game , currently in raids there are only 3 faction to fight against so for each faction make 15 different bots with different ps, example i go to raids with 6000 ps i getting bots that have from 5500ps to 6500ps and bots using in game structural to accumulate they hp pool NO SCALING!!! and bot weapons wary depending on ps and again weapon hp and damage must be WITHOUT SCALING .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will say it a gain, and I will not waste my time elaborating this time one of two things:

 

1  turn them into asymmetric PVP

2 turn them into different types of survival, and the longer u survive the higher the reward, this way it will make sense to get and use fancy weapons

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

raids are strange i got more elektonics for a loose then for a win sometimes on different raids check my screnshot ^^

10 min win 10 electronics after 4 min loose 13 that is so stupid i have no words for it ...

screenshot-191027-203212(44 4 128).jpg

Edited by Dein_Meister_xD
  • Like 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is that war for fire? Maybe you could cheese it then? Find the fastest time to earn 10 Uranium Electronics and keep losing it while farming ez elec.

Edited by Spedemix
oops

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2019 at 11:55 AM, ZERGOR said:

-Tower capture: Again the waves are a problem.

Solution: Remove the generator part, only have the 2 towers. Both activable from the start. Towers would work like capture points (with smaller radius). Players staying near them would capture them. Both towers captured=win. Having a player capturing a tower would trigger a constant spawn of enemies that would rush to destroy that player. It's possible to capture both towers at the same time and multiple players inside the same capture zone would make it go faster. Enemies would also spawn faster. Each 1/3 capture would trigger a leader spawn to spice things up. The goal is to have a very fast capture time if you stay in the zone but the focused fire of a leader and multiple minions will probably make that hard. Leaving the zone to stop their spawning and deal with them before there is too many of them is a viable strategy.

I really like that part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you got your wish. Now even normal raid like steel cradle is unplayable. The boring part was how long it took to strip weapons and kill. Now the raiders have all map radar and will swarm on you like the levi sees across the map. Hell the guided rocket truck lock on you with no line of sight at spawn. Unless you have the legend and relic weapons and a team that knows what they are doing even normal raids will get average and lower players to quit out the match. Problem with raids is the whole PS sets the toughness of the raiders. Get a mixed group of just under 6k with others pushing 12k makes for a failed group. Players showing up with drones is a laugh. Weapons that can remove weapons period. I have seen drones lock on and sit there firing at a destroyed turret base.

Overnight being able to do raids have changed to bad. And grinding has just become a bigger nightmare. Get rid of the PS determined raider toughness. And set higher PS requirement to do normal and hard raids. There is no reason a 3 vector build should be able to show up at a hard raid, let alone 4 turret build. A two player raids is easier to do then a 4. Make the reward and raider numbers reflect the number of players. Have the option of solo or two player groups being able to do a raid alone. Current state of raids has ruined the crafting part of the game. And making it harder for newer players to play catch up is a huge fail for the game.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya, that whole "not fun" thing seems to be spreading. I did manage to log on today and finish getting the resources for the new nerf-shotgun. That's hilarious. Are they mocking us? If so, I tip my hat to a fine jest indeed. That's pretty sophisticated humor, IMO. Nerds. They are potentially very dangerous people due to their high IQ, but thankfully they prefer poetic justice over violence...usually. It even sounds like a nerf gun. LMAO. My son had one a lot like it when he was a kid (now I have one too). It's probably still here somewhere. Touche, CrossOut, Touche. They earned my respect hard with that one. I think the game still bites, but at least I know there is a very clever mind at work in there somewhere. There could be hope for this game after all. Hit me again, bartender. I'm looking forward to the new-year overhaul. I hope that's what it is, too.

nerf-1.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the problem with raids are trash players with theyr garbage weapon choices and "strategies".

game needs filter you can set for:

Powerscore: to prevent low ps weapons for those whoo want to go high ps, or via versa
Weapon filter: so you get teamed up with weaposn you want, not some garbage weapons like tow, carcasaus, drones, other trash weapons that will make the raids harder than they need to be.

cause noone wants to carry a bad player with his one drone, one cannon, one tow, one vector build, with 2 hovers, and 2 baloon tyres with 10 fuelbarrels used as armor (yeah that fkn happend to me in hard raid)....

 

and second score for killing bots should be removed or redused dramaticly, and stripping weapon should be incresed, this would encuraged people to actualy strip and focus on the mission, instead of chasing half the bloody map for that one crippled/weaponless bot theyr so fixated to kill, to teach people how to win raids

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i cant express enough how boring raids are, they the best example of bad game design in this game, they aren't fun, or engaging or rewarding, the only reason i force myself to play them is for the badges. the reward payout is measly but those badges are decent cash.

i've got over 3k hours in this game and been playing since closed beta, and i feel that raids have never been as bad as they are now 

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agree raids are too boring and expected repeatition is just not right.

 

Edited by Madrunboy
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally don't have problems with raids except maybe some tweaks here and there and maybe also some new ideas. But as a whole I don't have problem with it. The game provides you with enough possibilities to make it. Find friends and form a strong intelligent party for one. Also it isn't suppose to go every time according to your plan. Failure is also an option. The biggest problem is players themselves. But then again befriend good players and rip through the game like a hot knife through the butter.

I hope the devs will take all of the complaints and suggestions with a grain of salt. This is the game this is the concept you like it you play it you don't like you don't it's that simple. To try and ply the game to your own liking isn't a good thing. I'm not saying one can't advise in favor of some changes or additions but completely remove something I for one am against it.

Edited by cowboygeorgy1
Pressed accidentaly a post button
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like some more maps, and more stories, to run through.  The current rotation is getting more than a little stale from repetition.  (Not as stale as Missions, but still.)

The War for Fire isn't significantly more fun, and interesting than Data Theft, on the same map.  

Edited by psiberzerker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just remove the damn powerscore scaling, it won't fix everything but it'll help a lot. if I spawn next to a guy in a 14K behemoth I want to think "Awesome, we're going to steamroll this" not "Ohh no, we're going to get screwed." You're also just creating hostility in raids between players who know about the scaling system (which isn't mentioned anywhere in game as far as I know), and those who don't or simply don't care.

Edited by Sidewinder_Fang
  • Confused 2
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/8/2020 at 6:54 PM, Sidewinder_Fang said:

Just remove the damn powerscore scaling, it won't fix everything but it'll help a lot. if I spawn next to a guy in a 14K behemoth I want to think "Awesome, we're going to steamroll this" not "Ohh no, we're going to get screwed." You're also just creating hostility in raids between players who know about the scaling system (which isn't mentioned anywhere in game as far as I know), and those who don't or simply don't care.

This... so much this.

 

Removing bat scaling also would make much more weapons viable in raids..... right now if you dont bring machine guns, you are basically a burden to your team.

This makes raids further repetive boring.... as you mow down the same stupid overbuffed and fast moving bots for hours and hours and hours.

 

 

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PS scaling is necessary. I know the Raid without PS scaling and it was not joyful at all.
The problem of level design and difficulty setting without PS scaling is inducement to exclusion of newbies.

Basically, raid should be difficult enough to make player be challenged.
Or it will be just stupid "click and click and hold w to win' contents and this is pointless. Not entertaining at all and too many players will grind resource.

The problem is focus. If difficulty is focused on 5000 ps where players can start hard raid at, it will be too easy for higher ps players.
They will get badges and electronics with almost zero effort. Raid will be just time consuming contents giving them only profit rather than any challenge.

So old raids focused on higher ps players.
And it made high ps players hate low PS players. The more low ps players, the harder they should work to succeed. Nobody wants to bear more task.
Low ps players were insulted even though they had good skill.
High ps players were not blamed even though they played terribly, because they had high ps vehicles.
Low ps players were blamed for every failure in raid.

 

This made game more stupid. Just driving much higher ps vehicle was solution of every problem.
Skill was less important and sometimes pointless, and raising ps of vehicle was most important.
This limited the diversity of vehicles in raids. I remember raid vehicles fat as much as vehicles for clan war.

If you guys want pointless and brainless raid which requires only higher ps vehicles and no skill at all, then i reject that idea 100%.
What about raid where player should bring vehicle with at least 12 ps? What about 16 ps raid?

This is what we call P2W. The more you have, the easier you win.
This makes me disgusting.

This is why level scaling is so important. It makes player do better, play well, and be skilled.
It gives everyone chance to play and challenge if they have enough skill. This is much better than stupid PS-raising competition.

Also, it gives something to do for high ps vehicles.
If PS did not change number or status of bots, there were always few and weak enemies in raid, which made high ps vehicles boring.

 

What makes PS scaling dumb is awful level design of this game.
Level designs in every PVE of Crossout contents are so inferior compared to well planed, designed level designs in other games.

Also, i insist PS scaling should affect players individually too, not only blanketly.
Current level scaling system gives to much pain on low ps players when there is stupid high ps player.

Of course, total PS of players should inflict status of enemies but individual also should have own ps scaling.  Do you get it?
Maybe small damage bonus or resistance to damage for low ps player, and no bonus for high ps fatty guy in raid.

Edited by VisceraCleaner
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/12/2020 at 12:55 AM, VisceraCleaner said:

PS scaling is necessary.

I most strongly disagree. :15:

Quote

I know the Raid without PS scaling and it was not joyful at all.

They are not joyful at all right now. :rolleyes:

Quote


The problem of level design and difficulty setting without PS scaling is inducement to exclusion of newbies.

Why do we have "easy" "normal" and "hard" raids.... when really the bot just scale to make most of it pointless.

Newbies are far more excluded by having everyone screaming and insulting them for bringing unsuitable vehicles (anything but an MG tower) into a raid.

You know... that bot scaling is what makes most PVP configuration unsuitable for raids? Cannons would never be ideal... but they would be usefull.... I mean when tiny little crap cars stop facetanking pulsar hits like pesky flies.

 

Quote

Basically, raid should be difficult enough to make player be challenged.

The only challenge of raids is that you bring the dumb luck of not having completly useless teammates.... like cannons or other xxxx designs that have no place in raids.

Bring people using proper designs... (read MG tower or go home) and there is absolutely no challenge in raids... it is just a boring repetive grind.....

Quote


Or it will be just stupid "click and click and hold w to win' contents and this is pointless.

You just perfectly described current raids.... minus if idiotic team "mates" ruin it for you.

Quote

Not entertaining at all and too many players will grind resource.

Redistribute those badges into PVP and I will never play a raid again.

Quote

The problem is focus. If difficulty is focused on 5000 ps where players can start hard raid at, it will be too easy for higher ps players.

Should those players be bored... they can always increase the "challenge". But it should be voluntarily... not forced upon you.

It is debatable if 5000 should be considered high PS...... but that doesnt change anything about the fact that you should be capable of bringing in something much higher without being severely punished.

Quote


They will get badges and electronics with almost zero effort. Raid will be just time consuming contents giving them only profit rather than any challenge.

Raids are just time consuming content that nobody I know does for anything else than badges.

Quote

So old raids focused on higher ps players.
And it made high ps players hate low PS players. The more low ps players, the harder they should work to succeed.

Yes... and know it is the other way arround because very few high Ps vehicles carry their weight.

Quote

Nobody wants to bear more task.

More importantly.. nobody wants to loose 20 - 60 fuel because your team "mates" thought it was a good idea to bring a cannon into raids.

Quote


Low ps players were insulted even though they had good skill.

Having skill - which is very very rare unfortunatly - still doesnt give you the right to ruin the raid for 3 other people.

Quote


High ps players were not blamed even though they played terribly, because they had high ps vehicles.

Player Skill is independent of vehicle PS. Since it however tends to take longer to get a big high PS vehicle.... one could at least hope that they have more experience...

Quote


Low ps players were blamed for every failure in raid.

If you enter a raid you put up to 240 fuel for all of you on the line.

If you enter a raid... I expect that you carry your weight. I expect to win.... I expect that those useless bots are exterminated and that you protect the objective at all costs. I expect that you are not a burden but a carry to your team.

Let me repeat that:

Failure-is-not-an-option-2.jpg

Quote

This made game more stupid. Just driving much higher ps vehicle was solution of every problem.

Leveling up is the point of most games.... what is the point of spending countless years and countless coins when you dont gain anything from it?

 

 

Quote


Skill was less important and sometimes pointless, and raising ps of vehicle was most important.

Skill and raids in the same sentence... seriously?

You need only one skill in raids... and that is to have low enough self respect to torture yourself for hours and hours for a few badges.

Quote


This limited the diversity of vehicles in raids. I remember raid vehicles fat as much as vehicles for clan war.

WHAT? And now it is not limited? With 99 % of all weapons being completly useless in raids? With everyone using an MG tower build?

 

WTF are you talking about please?

Quote

If you guys want pointless and brainless raid which requires only higher ps vehicles and no skill at all, then i reject that idea 100%.

They ARE pointless and brainless! And bot scaling makes it WORSE.

Quote


What about raid where player should bring vehicle with at least 12 ps? What about 16 ps raid?

Complex even harder raids have been discussed... the problem is that you need to literally give uranium for them or otherwise they will ruin the prices for hard raids just as much as hard raids have ruined the profit of medium and easy copper raids.

 

This and the devs inability to make more weapons viable in raids. They really tried on the raid story.... the problem is that it becomes stale by the time you have done it 10 times in a row..... and since you CANNOT make it more diverse by changing weapons.... raids are precisly this horrible grind that so many people despise.

Quote

This is what we call P2W. The more you have, the easier you win.
This makes me disgusting.

Pay to win againsts bots??

 

You see... balancing is of utmost importance in PVP.... player skill shall decide the outcome of the battle and not superior hardware.

 

But against bots... there is nobody violated or frustrated... because it is a god damm computer.

 

Leveling up is already somewhat unrewarding in PVP... you meet  more and more powerful enemies that match your power increase. That is how it should be... PVP is about skill after all and not about who got the fattest vehicle.

But why are we not allowed to enjoy the might of our vehicle in PVE? Where when not there can you enjoy being a mighty juggernaut of destruction?

 

I had fun in TWO raids since the start of open beta..... and that was when somebody brought porcupines and kapkan into old town.....

IT WAS GLORIOUS.... A MASSACRE...... TOTAL EXTERMINATION..... PRECISLY WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN IF YOU BRING AN ENDGAME RIG INTO MORTAL TERRITORY.

 

And I honestly think that this is the way it is done in most games... right? If in your average fantasy MMOG you bring your level 300 mage down to the starter or early game enemies... lets just say it will be very very very onesided.....

Quote

This is why level scaling is so important.

That is why it should DIE.

Quote

It makes player do better, play well, and be skilled.

Not the players I have the misfortune of having in my teams...

Quote


It gives everyone chance to play and challenge if they can endure countless hours of repetive unskilled no challenge grind.

fixed

Quote

 

This is much better than stupid PS-raising competition.

This makes it absolutly pointless to progress in the game in the first place.

Quote

Also, it gives something to do for high ps vehicles.

No. It merely makes the raid hell for all because bots are ludicrous overbuffed.

Quote


If PS did not change number or status of bots, there were always few and weak enemies in raid, which made high ps vehicles boring.

Boring? Do you know what boring is.... mowing down the same small agile **** bots for countless hours that get more and more durable the higher your teammates PS is.

Quote

 

What makes PS scaling dumb is awful level design of this game.
Level designs in every PVE of Crossout contents are so inferior compared to well planed, designed level designs in other games.

You cant fix scaling even with better levels... and imho they arent that bad... just very very repetive with is made so much worse by not being capable of bringing other weapons (without jeopardizing the 60 fuel)

Quote

Also, i insist PS scaling should affect players individually too, not only blanketly.
Current level scaling system gives to much pain on low ps players when there is stupid high ps player.

No, it just should die.

Quote

Of course, total PS of players should inflict status of enemies but individual also should have own ps scaling.  Do you get it?

No. In fact... few things break game atmosphere more than xxxx tiny **** cars surviving the most brutal of onslaughts without issue.

 

I used aurora for a while.... you can probably destroy most 10K+ vehicles faster than those stupid xxxx bots.

Quote


Maybe small damage bonus or resistance to damage for low ps player, and no bonus for high ps fatty guy in raid.

No.

All parts should have fixed values..... I really really hate it how a tiny piece of irrelevant structure can facetank cannon rounds in raids when the same cannon rounds destroy APC panels.

 

 

Bot scaling is horrible. It should be removed. Completely.

  • Confused 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, ARES_IV said:
Quote


This limited the diversity of vehicles in raids. I remember raid vehicles fat as much as vehicles for clan war.

WHAT? And now it is not limited? With 99 % of all weapons being completly useless in raids? With everyone using an MG tower build?

It seems you didn't get point at all.
Of course, still most of the weapons are ineffective in raid so most of the builds are limited.
But in aspect of PS, it is now much better than old days when 5000 PS vehicles were useless and not helpful at all. Nobody wanted 5k PS teammate instead of 8k or higher.

As easy raid is designed for 2000 PS, hard is for 5000 PS.
If you really want to bring higher PS car in raid, request new more difficult raid with more rewards.
Maybe new raid designed for 8k ps vehicle.

You guys should notice that just asking removal of something without detail or alternative solution is similar to crying for nerf/buff/removal of specific parts.

 

Unlike the other RPG, in Crossout profit from hard raid is beneficial to any player, and it means it should be 'hard' for everyone.
(In other RPG, top level players don't want to play contents for low level again. Because they are not profitable for them anymore.)

If hard raid were profitable only for players who can barely afford 5k vehicle, i also would absolutely agree on removal of PS scaling.
Currently, no PS scaling means easy resource grind for old players or players who paid more money.

And more horrible experience to beginners..
(Do you have any idea to design the hard raid for 5k PS build and 16k PS build at same time?)

 

 

PS.  Dev 'designed' difficulty of raids, and you can easily understand this if you have played Christmas heist.
Brainless players could't pass even 30 wave, and 50 wave was hard as hell even for rankers.
(Our clan only could overcome 49 wave and were defeated at 50 wave.)

Dev could make raid much harder forcing player to buy legendary on relic. If you reallly want change, then suggest better design or system.

Edited by VisceraCleaner
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what would make raids more difficult? Bots that can target exposed (not always or it would really frustrating) weapons and modules instead of auto-aiming the cabin. Next allow bots to re-target players or objectives depending on distance or what is the most damaged / easy to kill. That would mean the death of ridiculous towers and other weird bot killing designs and makes PVP build more suitable for raids.

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why have you copy and pasted this same msg in multiple threads?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.