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We’ve all played against people in clan wars that have kapkans. Every team has at least one. The issue that everyone has however, is that unless you have a spark, you’re toast. I’m bringing this suggestion from both sides of the argument as I have 6 of them personally, I know how they work and agree changes need to be made.

The biggest thing to note is that just a single Kaplan is currently overpowered, due to the fact it can hold the full weight and momentum of any build. This allows the dropper to hold off heavy builds pretty much indefinitely. 

My proposed change to this is that kapkans will each be capable of holding only 8000 kg each. 8000 kg that is not in the yellow as far as tonnage. This way a single kapkans cannot hold large builds, instead, multiple must be used to restrain the largest builds.

How it would work: individual kapkans once attached to target will slow their target but continue to let the line out until it reaches its max distance, where not only will the line snap but the whole Kaplan is destroyed. UNLESS within the time the first kapkan attaches, more kapkans attach. Each kapkans holds 8000 kg/ vehicle. This still allows a kapkans to catch vehicles independently. 

So all in all,

1 kapkan will restrain vehicles 8000kg or less, 

2 kapkans will restrain vehicles 16000kg or less,

3 kapkans will restrain vehicles 24000 kg or less, 

4 or more kapkans will restrain any vehicle.

My friends have already talked this over too and their addition is that wheel type changes calculations. Wheels stay at 8000kg, MLegs 6000kg, hovers 4000kg, and tank tracks 10000kg. This is to compensate for pulling power.

I really hope this gets accepted and debated on till it reaches the devs. This would be a major game changer.

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Suggestion opened up to gather more feedback. :salute:

 

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This is one good idea.

Another possibility is for the mine's decay time to be linked to how much mass is attached to it. One 20 ton vehicle causes the mine to decay twice as fast as a 10 ton vehicle. A squad of super-heavy vehicles would be able to just rip the thing apart.

Or, how many vehicles are attached, so the module scales with PS. Maybe a combination of all of these ideas.

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^^I was thinking along the same line as he. Kapkan would trap any kind of build all the same but a bigger/heavier craft were to be able to rip the cable off using sheer horsepower and mass of it's own craft.

 

A tweak like this would weaken the Kapkan module on higher PS while preserving the effectiveness on higher mid-PS (6-9K) where the crafts are generally lighter compared to the endgame.

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This is asinine. I drive a wheel build on medium cabs. Why in the world should I be at a disadvantage because I weigh less?

OH WAIT I ALREADY AM.

When I put 2 nibblers underneath my car, running the width of my vehicle, I have done my due diligence against kapkans. But, I sometimes get snagged by a Kapkan and have enough play in the wire to back my vehicle over it. What happens is because my vehicle weighs less than the tanky heavy cabs is that I will do some number of damage below 50, simply because Mass x Speed x Part that makes contact's melee multiplier. So because I don't weigh 23,000 kgs, I don't get away. Meanwhile, even idiots that don't use passive melee on the bottom of their rides are getting away simply because they weigh a shet-ton. 

Which brings me back to the point. Why should I again be doubly penalized in comparison to some tanky build who was only chasing the Typhoon meta anyways? 

No, no, no and hell tf no.

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On 9/2/2019 at 2:54 PM, DHawk216 said:

When I put 2 nibblers underneath my car, running the width of my vehicle, I have done my due diligence against kapkans.

 

Why should I again be doubly penalized in comparison to some tanky build who was only chasing the Typhoon meta anyways? 

No, no, no and hell tf no.

The only problem with your argument is you are seeing it from only your standpoint alone, and only one play style. Not everyone wants or even possibly can just slap passive melee under their builds, each person has their own style of building and or playing. The fact one module is the leading cause of stopping an entire team from moving seems a bit ridiculous in and of itself. The only reason you put passive melee under your car is BECAUSE of kapkans, that's saying something right there.

This viable rework in the kapkans mechanics would be suitable across many power score. It's not hard to reach over 8k kg to be able to break the rope. I'm sure the build you use right now is heavy enough to do so. But currently what happens if theres 2 kapkans on either side, holding you down? Theres no possible way you can move to one kapkan and break it before you get shredded by half the enemy team. Kapkans are far too unrealistic, granted, many things in this game are, but for a little 2 foot wide disc shooting out a braided wire that most likely IRL has a breaking force of 5000lb or around 2200 kg, can hold and snap back a huge 25000 kg vehicle moving at 70 kph is something youd see in cartoons.

Please change kapkans devs.

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Something I like with the idea on top of the fact that my 24 tons builds will laugh at kapkans is that the leviathans immunity to them could be removed in invasion.

Most levi would still ignore them due to their weight but maybe you could catch the smaller ones that move full speed around the map (that frankly never felt like leviathans). Removing enough armor would also allow kapkans to work on the heavier ones. The would give more options.

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What about if kapkans worked more like a spark?

Slowing builds down massively but not turning them into a sitting duck? 

It would give heavy builds time to retreat without completely nullifying close range builds.

You could boost their range so they could produce no go areas without being such a brutal counter to short range units.

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Yes! YES! FINALY! Wtf you cannot stop big fking thing 20 tons with 1 small stupid thing!!!!!!! If it hook to me I should pull it with my 22500 kg build on legs or destroy it with leg... 

If this 22500 kg build will MOVE ABOUT 40 km/h this little small very small absolutely the smallest module cannot stop this fking freaky heavy muchine. 

Some calculations: 20000 kg vhelice moving 50 km/h it would have weight equal to 800 000 kg!!! WHAAAT? KAAAAPKAKAKAN  800t STOPING POWER??? KAKAKAAAAAAN KAKAAAAKKAAAAN  and at 90 km/h it woooould have weight equal to 2 560 000 kg WHAAAT 2560t??? Woooooooooooooow WELCOME TO REALITY 

 

Only problem in this game will be meele builds in reality when you crash you destroy your and enemy vhelice this is derby but in game only enemy that's OK but YOU WANT IN NEW PAtCH ADD TEXTURES TO MOUNTAINS AND PLACES why? Becouse dogs crying? They are op and you make them more op this stupid kapkan can catch them now less effectivity can be destroyed vhelice 90 - > and more speed km/s cannot catch and that's it 

WELCOME TO CROSSOUT DOG FIGHT ADD TEXTURES FIX KAPKAN AND YOU HAVE ALL BUILD MEELE I WILL BUILD TOOO?!!!! AFTER TEXTURE REWORK PATCH!!! 

 

AND FINALY FIX THIS SCORPIO BULSHIT FRAME DMG OK? 

One hit from two weapons and I was cabine with tsunamis without legs ok? It's not oke

 

Edited by Iron8000
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On 8/7/2019 at 6:23 PM, guardianreaper0 said:

We’ve all played against people in clan wars that have kapkans. Every team has at least one. The issue that everyone has however, is that unless you have a spark, you’re toast. I’m bringing this suggestion from both sides of the argument as I have 6 of them personally, I know how they work and agree changes need to be made.

The biggest thing to note is that just a single Kaplan is currently overpowered, due to the fact it can hold the full weight and momentum of any build. This allows the dropper to hold off heavy builds pretty much indefinitely. 

My proposed change to this is that kapkans will each be capable of holding only 8000 kg each. 8000 kg that is not in the yellow as far as tonnage. This way a single kapkans cannot hold large builds, instead, multiple must be used to restrain the largest builds.

How it would work: individual kapkans once attached to target will slow their target but continue to let the line out until it reaches its max distance, where not only will the line snap but the whole Kaplan is destroyed. UNLESS within the time the first kapkan attaches, more kapkans attach. Each kapkans holds 8000 kg/ vehicle. This still allows a kapkans to catch vehicles independently. 

So all in all,

1 kapkan will restrain vehicles 8000kg or less, 

2 kapkans will restrain vehicles 16000kg or less,

3 kapkans will restrain vehicles 24000 kg or less, 

4 or more kapkans will restrain any vehicle.

My friends have already talked this over too and their addition is that wheel type changes calculations. Wheels stay at 8000kg, MLegs 6000kg, hovers 4000kg, and tank tracks 10000kg. This is to compensate for pulling power.

I really hope this gets accepted and debated on till it reaches the devs. This would be a major game changer.

this is a pretty damn good idea and sounds like a very reasonable way to fix the infuriating mess that are kapkan's

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On 9/10/2019 at 1:30 PM, RAZORHELM said:

What about if kapkans worked more like a spark?

Slowing builds down massively but not turning them into a sitting duck? 

It would give heavy builds time to retreat without completely nullifying close range builds.

This is also a reasonable rework. Make them like a temporary legcuff:

 

Spoiler

49966755-rusty-prison-shackle-with-chain

 

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DHawk216 is right though.

On 9/10/2019 at 9:04 AM, Vandallheim said:

The only problem with your argument is you are seeing it from only your standpoint alone, and only one play style.

Oh, and you don't?

Your heavy builds can actually withstand damage much better, yet it should break free from kapkan easier? While for a light build, sitting in kapkan is certain death?

Bad idea.

Edited by fftunes4real

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I have to double up on this, this is such a stupidly unbalanced and unfair suggestion it shouldn't even have been opened up for feedback.

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On 9/10/2019 at 12:30 PM, RAZORHELM said:

What about if kapkans worked more like a spark?

This is not a bad idea per se. However, it's unrealistic that current kapkan gets changed into something like that.

Only viable solution are hard nerfs:

- make it so one kapkan can only capture one vehicle, not multiple 

- if a second kapkan is dropped from the same module, destroy the previously dropped

- increase energy requirement

- make it so it can't be used offensively (does not activate if dropped within its reach), only defensive (activates if you enter its radius)

- improve audio cues for enemies dropping kapkans near you

- reduce range

- reduce lifetime

- reduce ammo amount

Edited by fftunes4real
added options 2x (forgot energy requirement)

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fftunes4real: first of, this post is here to debate, so please do so in a civilized manner, not that of a 6 year old throwing a tantrum. Secondly, I am suggesting this as a person that uses primarily wheel and track builds. I never much cared for hovers or legs. This was suggested as a balanced change for all sides of it. I don’t know how much you play clan wars, but this would be an absolute game changer. Most builds in CW weigh between 18k and 24k. The trouble is the single kapkan drop from cannon spiders that can completely immobilize. With these changes that would be nearly worthless unless it catches a half destroyed lightweight shotgun build. 

If it’s a matter of normal pvp that you are concerned about, as long as you are playing at the proper score and not seal clubbing, you should still be fine.

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5 hours ago, guardianreaper0 said:

This was suggested as a balanced change for all sides of it. I don’t know how much you play clan wars, but this would be an absolute game changer. Most builds in CW weigh between 18k and 24k.

Sorry, no, not all sides of it. Light builds would be at a huge disadvantage with this change, and you don't seem to see that at all.

It is you who only sees the cw perspective.

Edited by fftunes4real

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Then do explain what your build is. Because with 8,000 kg of weight being the limit on a single kapkan, you would have to be running about a 5k PS build to be caught at full health, or have sustained a good bit of damage if running a Clan Wars build. Either way, you would still get caught by pretty much any variation of kapkans they will ever do, nerfed or not. Keeping the melee under your build would still work, but so would having a larger teammate lead the charge. This is to balance it regardless of  movement type. Light builds are at a disadvantage any way it gets done because that is what they are for! They are to restrict movement, especially on a fast lightweight build. This change would simply make it so those cannon rigs and similar are forced to use more than one or to put the pair together. 

Stop and think about it like this: if they still only used one, they would have to drop both from the one module in the same location. This means once those break, the single one they drop next will not be as likely to stop you, either to to weight, or you shoot/melee it. Their other option is to put on multiple. They may only be 2 energy each, but that can start stacking up rather quickly. An additional 2 energy usage could take away a radar, stealth unit, engine, radiator, cooler, etc. Most people wouldn’t want to make that sacrifice, so they would likely take the kapkan off entirely to make room for other parts.

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On 9/2/2019 at 9:43 AM, Spedemix said:

^^I was thinking along the same line as he. Kapkan would trap any kind of build all the same but a bigger/heavier craft were to be able to rip the cable off using sheer horsepower and mass of it's own craft.

 

A tweak like this would weaken the Kapkan module on higher PS while preserving the effectiveness on higher mid-PS (6-9K) where the crafts are generally lighter compared to the endgame.

Like I was saying along side with the rest is it would likely force higher PS players to use multiple, taking energy away from other parts.

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On 8/7/2019 at 1:23 PM, guardianreaper0 said:

 

My friends have already talked this over too and their addition is that wheel type changes calculations. Wheels stay at 8000kg, MLegs 6000kg, hovers 4000kg, and tank tracks 10000kg. This is to compensate for pulling power.

After gathering a bit more info from other players, this part needs to be changed. New list would read as follows.

Wheels: 8k

Legs: 8K 

Hovers: 10K

Augers:8k

Tracks: 6k

Edited by guardianreaper0

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Let me ask in a different way: why should kapkan be stronger in low ps battles than in high ps/cw? It's not like it isn't used as sealclubbing tool as well.

Also, my personal builds don't matter in this discussion - i have 16 slots in garage, 20 on exhibition, maybe 2 or 3 of those are under 8 tons and i practically never play those. But i'm trying to be objective.

Your suggestion would heavily favor heavy builds. I don't see how this would be balanced.

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I gotta say I also think just making kapkan not work once your weight goes past a certain point is not a good idea. For anything weight related you want a more gradual solution.

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I agree with this being unbalanced to smaller builds. The problem with the kapcan is it holds far too long and is a ridiculous module over all. Id say it would be better to overhaul it altogether. Make it an emp mine that causes a 2 second stun and creates a shock wave that disables nearby turrets and drones. This way it cant be used to ensnare a team of builds but rather slows them and throws their balance off. As well as giving a much needed counter to drones in low ps. 

 

If they remain as is. I say shorten the time of hold and make them unable to be deployed if within 20 meters of an enemy (they should be placed strategically not reactive)

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Allow the 24000 kg builds that travel 70km+ to carry anything off to narnia? Seems legit

Got a typhoon nerf

Got a firebug buff

Why not delete the kapcan while were at it. God forbid they have a 70 coin occulus on their team

Edited by Babylonsburning
Narnia

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As far as lower PS builds go, it still takes a decent chunk of PS to run a kapkan, and honestly I’d rather be running into kapkans than the spark harvesters.

To Spedemix, the reason I would like to see it work according to weight is that a single kapkan can catch massive builds currently. It needs to have a reason to require multiple kapkans. A measurable reason. Think of it this way: if a crane’s hook is holding cables that run to an object, why does it have multiple cables? To distribute the weight. A single line of the same size would snap under that weight. Similarly, the less weight, the less cables are required to hold it.

I do not entirely agree or disagree with those saying it shouldn’t hold back a team. If it’s only two or three mines, I agree, it shouldn’t hold the weight of the compiled team. However, if there are 5 or 6, it really should. 

 

The whole point and purpose of this is to make it where actual trapper builds can become a thing again, and not every person with a single kapkan needs to be feared.

I honestly don’t see how this is being unfair to smaller builds, as compared to the current way that they work. At least with this way, if there is more than one caught be it, and their combined weight is more than 8K, it breaks the line. Please do explain how that is unfair.

In case I didn’t say it before, the weight of vehicles work together against the mines weight cap. So if multiple lightweight builds move together in formation, they can still break the lines of kapkans. Same with large builds. At this point though I would suggest a longer max distance the line can be pulled to, to allow a chance for other mines to engage. This would NOT however change the current activation range. So ultimately if you get snagged by one, you can avoid another and still be able to break free.

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2 hours ago, guardianreaper0 said:

The whole point and purpose of this is to make it where actual trapper builds can become a thing again, and not every person with a single kapkan needs to be feared.

This change alone will not make Kapkan spam builds widely used because you still earn 0 points no matter how many people you trap.

 

Also multiple Kapkan attached to a single person still has the advantage of completely immobilizing the target so they cannot move even an inch.

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