ZKWS

Increase wheel grip across the board and buff boosters

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As title says a grip buff for wheels is needed cause atm they tend to slide a lot even at very low speeds, this would make them more competitive with hovers and tracks, hovers have very fast acceleration, and can change direction very quickly (strafe) making it almost impossible to catch them when using wheels. basically stop the cars from sliding all over the place because it's not fun. and when it comes to tracks there health is so dam high that while the vehicles health might be 600hp, with to goliath tracks completely covering both sides their effective health is 3800, yeah they have two openings but the front will be filled with guns and the back is filled with all the normal armour, and they can turn on the spot to cover their weak-points, so instead of nerfing, just buff wheels, more grip for wheels will stop them sliding like on ice and allow players to out maneuver to combat tracks and hovers.

 

Also pliz buff boosters they are great fun but not good value for the PS or energy, either increase the thrust or increase the fuel. make them actually viable in intercepter type builds, why not right? cant ever see boosters being op.

 

Edit: Also why on earth is the bigfoot so power hungry, -20 power is the same as the mechanical leg, i mean come on lol. reduces the bigfoots power drain by 5 to -15, its already worse than the legs and hovers, give it a lil buf :)

Edited by ZKWS
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Suggestion opened up to gather more feedback. :salute:

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On 8/9/2019 at 10:30 AM, ZKWS said:

As title says a grip buff for wheels is needed cause atm they tend to slide a lot even at very low speeds, this would make them more competitive with hovers and tracks, hovers have very fast acceleration, and can change direction very quickly (strafe) making it almost impossible to catch them when using wheels. basically stop the cars from sliding all over the place because it's not fun. and when it comes to tracks there health is so dam high that while the vehicles health might be 600hp, with to goliath tracks completely covering both sides their effective health is 3800, yeah they have two openings but the front will be filled with guns and the back is filled with all the normal armour, and they can turn on the spot to cover their weak-points, so instead of nerfing, just buff wheels, more grip for wheels will stop them sliding like on ice and allow players to out maneuver to combat tracks and hovers.

 

Also pliz buff boosters they are great fun but not good value for the PS or energy, either increase the thrust or increase the fuel. make them actually viable in intercepter type builds, why not right? cant ever see boosters being op.

Wheel builds do have pretty bad traction...they also have very bad acceleration for supposedly being the fastest builds. Top end 'speed' does not make a vehicle quick. Acceleration buffs do tho...

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This one is gonna split opinions.

 

Having better grip on all wheels would definitely improve their combat effectiveness against Hovers. Then again there are loads of people asking for more drift on the wheels, basically the opposite. Driving drifting cars is definitely more fun per se even if it's less competetive. How to solve this issue?

 

Hmm, this is just the top of my head: Mario Kart 64 (and subsequent Mario Kart games) have a separate drift button. The kart cars always have a perfect traction on tracks and you can just drift on cue by holding one of the shoulder pads down.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Something similar might be doable in XO too: Put the drifts onto strafing buttons and use the opposite drift button of whatever turning direction you're pressing to make the car drift. You'd make your wheeled build drift whenever you want.

 

The way you'd make this work in practice is by first improving the grip values of all the wheel to insane heights, so that it's almost impossible to drift without using the drift button. The drift buttons simply lowers the grip value of all installed wheels to super low values, lower than a common wheel driving on sand dune. Release the drift button and the grip reverst to what it was. Different terrain still has an overall effect on how slippery your driving is: Drifting on an asphalt would be relatively easy but trying the same on sand might make you lose all your speed or even worse, spin your car out of control.

 

I'm thinking the "strafe" -buttons could simple be turned ito "strafe/drift" -buttons; if your build has a mixture of wheels and say grinders, you'd nevertheless want the traction of wheels to be lower whenever you'd attempt to strafe with the augers.

 

Imagine what kind of maneuvers you'd be able to do when you combine deliberate drift with the popular handbrake trick in Crossout:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Picture this car having some executioners on its front hood and someone was chasing it. Boom! The chaser just got a round of cannon shells onto its face while this guy/gal keeps going.

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Oof, this is going to be a long one. I have a feeling that thread is partially motivated by the current state of races, right?

Okay, so first lets look at what wheels do well:
-no forward speed limit
-BFs perk and toughness are good.

Then what they don't do well or can't do:
-bad accel (very hard to reach the top speed on any build that isn't a sand buggy)
-worst reverse speed ingame
-suffers from grip issues and water, glitched floor and other random bumps
-can't turn while staying stationnary

Ingame, this translates into wheels being only useful at meleeing, and absolutely horrible with fixed weapons (seeing how they can't peekaboo efficiently without accel, strafing, stationnary turning and with such a poor reverse speed). This said, I think any buff to wheels should try to improve their viability as ranged weapons platform without buffing melee. There are multiple options, and the most obvious and safer one is to increase their reverse speed. This makes them marginally better at peekabooing and maneuvering, and less punishing compared to strafing parts, while having no effect on melee gameplay.

Another thing is that wheeled builds are the ones that suffer the most from glitchy collisions and floor physics. This is true in any gamemode, and a complete killer in race mode. You can do well and still randomly end up on the roof or stuck in the ground for 10s while the hover that is tailing you since the start and driving horribad overtakes you, bumping into the gates and decor non-stop without a problem.
Most of this, some ugly clipping issues and the race mode balance could be greatly improved simply by increasing the ground clearance of all wheels besides Large and Bigfoot by 0.1-0.2 blocs. And some more for the racing wheels wich are currently some of the worst wheels in the race mode due to how little ground clearance they give. They're lower than their lighter nomad counterpart wich doesn't make much sense either when you look at common wheels, and other factions' wheels.

Another thing is that rare wheels are only very marginally better than common wheels, and the only epic wheel available is the massive and  power-hungry Bigfoot. There's such a huge gap between rare and epic wheels, and only one epic choice, wich leads to zero wheel diversity. Some rare wheels aren't even worth the PS increase compared to common wheels either, making them cosmetics at best (Chained wheelscome to mind, or Large wheels wich fall off in a single Tsunami shot). A slight bump in power and PS of rare wheels, and a new epic wheel that isn't a massive power sink would do wonders for the game's diversity. It's sad to have so many rare wheels that are all useless besides Shivs.


 

Now, about boosters... they're tricky. I'm against any kind of fuel increase in the current state of the game because every bad hover with a bad driver would be able to do 3 laps in the racemode without even managing their fuel. Hovers have it easy alread, and on top of that they get much more out of boosters than wheeled builds who have to overcome grip and fall back to their max speed much faster.

One possible solution to increase their combat viability (except at high PS) and make the race mode more balanced and less of an eyesore, would be to double the weight of boosters and increase their power marginally, by lets say 20%. Heavy vehicules with fewer boosters (like combat ones) would see their final weight change very little while they get 20% more thrust; and boosters flatbeds in races would see their weight increase much more than their thrust.
Other possibilities I have in mind all involve Hermes getting a perk (thrust increased depending on the mass of the vehicule? Max speed getting a boost for every 100m crossed while boosting?) or a new engine/new wheels with a perk that synergizes with boosters.

I actually have lots of fun at low PS with Vectors and boosters. I use them to run away from any shotgunner heading towards me :p.

Last bit about wheels, that is true for every game mode but especially for races: Stop it with the sand and water everywhere, Targem, and gives us some hard surfaces so we don't drift like idiots. Please :'D

Edited by Clebardman
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4 hours ago, Spedemix said:

Having better grip on all wheels would definitely improve their combat effectiveness against Hovers. Then again there are loads of people asking for more drift on the wheels, basically the opposite. Driving drifting cars is definitely more fun per se even if it's less competetive. How to solve this issue? 

Easiest fix would be to just have different sets of wheels with different levels of grip like we used to have. Have some sets with lots of grip, and others with way less grip, and different grip ratings for different terrain. Maybe even introduce some new sets that are at opposite ends of the spectrum where one has super high grip and high power usage, and another set with extremely low grip and low power usage.

Also yes, buff boosters. They are terrible in their current state. Even 4 hermes barely do anything to medium weighted vehicles. Increase the thrust massivley, and increase the fuel. Or let ammo boxes increase your booster fuel. Or give them unlimited fuel, but have them overheat quickly so you need radiators/coolers to use them efficiently. This is all stuff thats been discussed in threads 100x before, in great depth and detail, and they never bother changing anything.

Edited by Crunk_Prime
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Boosters have been terrible since they were given a set ammount of boost. You can't increase the number at all, Ammo packs don't affect it, fuel tanks don't either.I f they were given the same treatment to where you can have more boost with ammo packs added or fuel tanks, it would increase their quality of life.

Edited by JazzyCarbon85
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13 hours ago, Crunk_Prime said:

Easiest fix would be to just have different sets of wheels with different levels of grip like we used to have. Have some sets with lots of grip, and others with way less grip, and different grip ratings for different terrain. Maybe even introduce some new sets that are at opposite ends of the spectrum where one has super high grip and high power usage, and another set with extremely low grip and low power usage.

The issue with this is you'll be at the mercy of map RNG. That is the reason why devs democratized the wheel grip across the board. You know what you'll be getting no matter what wheel combination you run on any given map.

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On 9/2/2019 at 4:29 PM, Spedemix said:

How to solve this issue?

Maybe by reintroducing different traction values for wheels again. You drifted quite a lot with Lunar IV wheels on hard terrain.....

For drifting on sand... use racing wheels..... no grip due to no profile..... for drifting on concrete use large wheels which have less traction on such ground.

 

Still dont get why devopers nuked those differences...

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I said this before but here again...

Yep all blue ones need be reworked...

Or add a new module to give blue wheel similar traction to purple wheels..

Please ! ! ! ! 

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13 hours ago, ARES_IV said:

Maybe by reintroducing different traction values for wheels again. You drifted quite a lot with Lunar IV wheels on hard terrain.....

For drifting on sand... use racing wheels..... no grip due to no profile..... for drifting on concrete use large wheels which have less traction on such ground.

 

Still dont get why devopers nuked those differences...

 

On 9/3/2019 at 11:19 AM, Spedemix said:

The issue with this is you'll be at the mercy of map RNG. That is the reason why devs democratized the wheel grip across the board. You know what you'll be getting no matter what wheel combination you run on any given map.

^^There's your answer. :)

 

I'm not 100% sure if changing the traction values was the right choice but I can definitely understand the reasoning behind this.

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7 hours ago, Spedemix said:

 

^^There's your answer. :)

 

I'm not 100% sure if changing the traction values was the right choice but I can definitely understand the reasoning behind this.

But being limited to BIG FOOTS for faction is just HORRIBLE! ! ! ! 

Limits creativity and I don't like that! 

18 hours ago, *Zhetesh said:

add a new module to give blue wheel similar traction to purple wheels..

Please ! ! ! ! 

 

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On 9/2/2019 at 5:38 PM, Clebardman said:

Oof, this is going to be a long one. I have a feeling that thread is partially motivated by the current state of races, right?

Okay, so first lets look at what wheels do well:
-no forward speed limit
-BFs perk and toughness are good.

Then what they don't do well or can't do:
-bad accel (very hard to reach the top speed on any build that isn't a sand buggy)
-worst reverse speed ingame
-suffers from grip issues and water, glitched floor and other random bumps
-can't turn while staying stationnary

Ingame, this translates into wheels being only useful at meleeing, and absolutely horrible with fixed weapons (seeing how they can't peekaboo efficiently without accel, strafing, stationnary turning and with such a poor reverse speed). This said, I think any buff to wheels should try to improve their viability as ranged weapons platform without buffing melee. There are multiple options, and the most obvious and safer one is to increase their reverse speed. This makes them marginally better at peekabooing and maneuvering, and less punishing compared to strafing parts, while having no effect on melee gameplay.

Another thing is that wheeled builds are the ones that suffer the most from glitchy collisions and floor physics. This is true in any gamemode, and a complete killer in race mode. You can do well and still randomly end up on the roof or stuck in the ground for 10s while the hover that is tailing you since the start and driving horribad overtakes you, bumping into the gates and decor non-stop without a problem.
Most of this, some ugly clipping issues and the race mode balance could be greatly improved simply by increasing the ground clearance of all wheels besides Large and Bigfoot by 0.1-0.2 blocs. And some more for the racing wheels wich are currently some of the worst wheels in the race mode due to how little ground clearance they give. They're lower than their lighter nomad counterpart wich doesn't make much sense either when you look at common wheels, and other factions' wheels.

Another thing is that rare wheels are only very marginally better than common wheels, and the only epic wheel available is the massive and  power-hungry Bigfoot. There's such a huge gap between rare and epic wheels, and only one epic choice, wich leads to zero wheel diversity. Some rare wheels aren't even worth the PS increase compared to common wheels either, making them cosmetics at best (Chained wheelscome to mind, or Large wheels wich fall off in a single Tsunami shot). A slight bump in power and PS of rare wheels, and a new epic wheel that isn't a massive power sink would do wonders for the game's diversity. It's sad to have so many rare wheels that are all useless besides Shivs.


 

Now, about boosters... they're tricky. I'm against any kind of fuel increase in the current state of the game because every bad hover with a bad driver would be able to do 3 laps in the racemode without even managing their fuel. Hovers have it easy alread, and on top of that they get much more out of boosters than wheeled builds who have to overcome grip and fall back to their max speed much faster.

One possible solution to increase their combat viability (except at high PS) and make the race mode more balanced and less of an eyesore, would be to double the weight of boosters and increase their power marginally, by lets say 20%. Heavy vehicules with fewer boosters (like combat ones) would see their final weight change very little while they get 20% more thrust; and boosters flatbeds in races would see their weight increase much more than their thrust.
Other possibilities I have in mind all involve Hermes getting a perk (thrust increased depending on the mass of the vehicule? Max speed getting a boost for every 100m crossed while boosting?) or a new engine/new wheels with a perk that synergizes with boosters.

I actually have lots of fun at low PS with Vectors and boosters. I use them to run away from any shotgunner heading towards me :p.

Last bit about wheels, that is true for every game mode but especially for races: Stop it with the sand and water everywhere, Targem, and gives us some hard surfaces so we don't drift like idiots. Please :'D

cheers for the large response, just to address the first part i don't really play races or other brawls tbh, these concerns came up after running some low ps boosted sg builds like this one. i got pretty good with it  but the lack of grip even on double wheels really started to bug me. the only part of your response i would disagree with is that buffing boosters would negatively affect races, i don't play races much but to me it just seems like ppl with the most boosters win cause they dont run out of fuel, so if ppl are already overcoming the fuel issues in races then u might as well buff them for viable combat use. 

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On 8/9/2019 at 7:30 AM, ZKWS said:

As title says a grip buff for wheels is needed cause atm they tend to slide a lot even at very low speeds, this would make them more competitive with hovers and tracks, hovers have very fast acceleration, and can change direction very quickly (strafe) making it almost impossible to catch them when using wheels. basically stop the cars from sliding all over the place because it's not fun. and when it comes to tracks there health is so dam high that while the vehicles health might be 600hp, with to goliath tracks completely covering both sides their effective health is 3800, yeah they have two openings but the front will be filled with guns and the back is filled with all the normal armour, and they can turn on the spot to cover their weak-points, so instead of nerfing, just buff wheels, more grip for wheels will stop them sliding like on ice and allow players to out maneuver to combat tracks and hovers.

 

Also pliz buff boosters they are great fun but not good value for the PS or energy, either increase the thrust or increase the fuel. make them actually viable in intercepter type builds, why not right? cant ever see boosters being op.

I definitely agree with booster buff!...  In my opinion the boost should be increased by a factor of 3 or 5 for all 3 of them...

so having 2 common, rare or epic booster will be the equivalent to 6 or 10...

this way lighter charging builds don't have to use so much energy and it might bring back some massive battering ram builds which seems very interesting... 

In my mind anyway:001j:...

I would expect the PS score to be raised at least...

The only worry about this idea is that it might give lancer builds too much of an advantage in clan wars....

 

I don't know if anyone will share my view with wheels but my thought's were to reduce powerscore, mass and power drain for all expect bigfoots...

I would love to apply bigfoot wheels to the list since i have 8 but they would probably be overpowered if that were to happen.

 

 

Edited by HammeredByNature

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tbh i doubt wheels could be op, some insane buffs too health would have to happen to make them op, all im asking is a grip increase 

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Not sure about the grip levels - 0.10.80 has killed the viability of hovers in races.

As  for boosters - I'm in favor of improving their performance - if only because the update has increased their power score by a significant margin. However, in my opinion, the main problem with them is the lack of granularity in their use.The average player is going to waste half an unit of fuel every time they use a booster, and this adds up very quickly.

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Having a mechanic that allows us to press Q or E to drift would do a lot for wheels. Right now they are the lowest skill movement part in game. If they had the ability to drift though, they would need a slight HP nerf because a wheel build would not need to expose its broadside to round a corner to acquire a target. If a Triple 88 build could drift around a corner with his front pointed towards me, I can't shoot under his frames or splash all his wheels in one salvo. I would definitely play wheels more if I could drift properly. I do not think that grip for wheels should be increased as they are nearly twice as fast as anything in the game. I would favor an acceleration curve nerf to hovers though because they do not have a logarithmic curve like everything else. Light wheel builds mostly only suffer at high powerscore due to not being able to pursue hovers effectively. 

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On 9/15/2019 at 7:08 PM, Dark__Blade__PS4 said:

I'd also like to drive faster before blowing up. It's an issue when I'm using more than 4 rocket boosters on a ramming build.

You blow up when any part of your car except the movement parts touches the ground past ~240 kmh. To mitigate that, use Large wheels or Bigfoots, don't build below the frame, and don't have a long overhanging nose that eats dirt. Put your boost in line with your center of mass to avoid nose-diving over bumps.

Edited by Clebardman
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I would have to agree wheels need a buff and boosters should be able to be viable in PVP and CW. Perhaps a legendary booster that is enormous and can boost large wheeled builds to help run down large hover typhoons would be a great balance to the game. 

Buff them both

Hovers still are at a huge advantage with the ability to build insanely heavy hover typoon ships that's can take a ton of cannon shots and have great maneuverability. 

Edited by EVAN__WILLAMS

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Wheels should have better grip, I agree to that. Especially the blue ones. Not all wheels need to have same grip. I don't see the problem letting some wheels be for drifting and others for grip.

I'm fine with rocket boosters using fuel and the amount. I prefer how it is now over the old system, but they still lack power. 2x fused Hermes still struggle to push a car with Apollo and 4 Bigfoots in battle. 500 structure on car is a soft limit, which is kind of suicidal in 10k+ ps. We need legendary boosters, a relic one would be a wet dream come true.

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@*Jomar_SL

And we could have nomads boosters (plane turbojets) and DC boosters too (Space rockets engines). One can dream :'D

I still think Hermes needs a weight-dependent perk. Something like "thrust increased by 1% for every ton". I love boosters, but a pair of the common or rare ones isn't going to push anything past 4k PS, and Hermes really doesn't look like endgame material when everybody at 10k+ PS weights 20 tons.

Or maybe the problem is that there's no way to build light at endgame? Light cabs are bad, higher rarity weapons tend to be much heavier, and there's no light epic wheels.

Edited by Clebardman

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An other brawl with unlimited booster show that devs know that limited boosters are unfun and almost useless.

I really don't understand what limited fuel add to the game. Brawls don't use it. Races offer free refills making them basically unlimited.

They are only limited in the mode where they are the least useful. They could really use unlimited fuel. That would make way more fun to play with.

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@ZERGOR Fuel management in races COULD use improvements as the current system promotes a somewhat scumbaggy behavior at the gates, but it's also one of the most strategical and nteresting aspect of races. I'd LOVE to see boosters become more useful in battle, especially as I DO use them already, but I'm firmly against any tweak to their current fuel values or deltaV.

One thing I'd like tho is somewhat tougher boosters. They could really use 50% more health. More fuel ain't gonna help if your boosters fall as soon as you get hit anyway.

I'd really like to see a Hermes perk that helps pushing MASSIVE builds too. Something like "Cabin speed and power increased by x% for every 100 meters travelled while boosting, stacks up to 10, loses one stack every second while not boosting" would really help to push wheeled behemoths better.

Edited by Clebardman

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32 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

but I'm firmly against any tweak to their current fuel values or deltaV.

What is the real use of having fuel except frustration ?

The strategy part in races comes from heat management as booster overheat fairly fast preventing continuous use. Again, if you just keep the fuel button pushed you will end the lap with fuel left (at least with purple ones and if you somehow manage not to crash) showing the fuel limit is useless in those races (except making white boosters a bit worse than they already are, because yeah those run out of fuel before the end of the lap).

Heat is a great limit for fuel, preventing continuous use of it but fuel itself is just a punishment.

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