BjKalderon

[Developer blog] The map “Chemical Plant” and new game modes. Mass testing

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1 hour ago, forc3dinduction said:

just climb everything i guess.

have fun going through all your maps again to erect all those invis walls around every ship, piece of wreck, hill, rock, etc.

and if you forget just a single area, szefopl will let you know loud and in caps.

 

maybe just put an area of death into such places that takes 10% of your original hp per second to discourage such behaviour. that way you could still go over them, but staying there will have an immense price.

Yea. The problem was being able to do this whike driving at wall and letting go. Now you just dont let go from the looks of it.. i mean yea thats a better way for hovers to handle but climbing any edge is a bit broke

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9 hours ago, Spedemix said:

I'm afraid your hover tweak doesn't work properly.

 

I loaded up the one of most popular Cricket hover builds in test server (it uses 8 hovers), took into a custom battle and this is the first thing i did with it:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

After some thorough testing I figured out what the issue is and here's the explanation:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

TL;DR: This tweak stops working if you offset the weight towards a side. In a sideways hovercraft the weight is pretty much always offset so your tweak doesn't work on 90% of the hover builds which are used in this game.

 

You're gonna have to fix this issue before it can be properly evaluated.

 

The other stuff in test server is great! New map is cool (I love the burning wreckages in the field), the new modes are great too (I liked the Big Bad Flamers). I've yet to test the "Experiment mode" aminly due to this hover testing taking all my time.

I never could figure out why some people with hovers could do things I couldn't do with them, until seeing this. This explains everything. I never wanted to redo my controls to support a sideways hover build, so all the ones I made and used were head on. I 100% agree that the tweak they enacted won't do a thing against the sideways hover, so devs either need to remove the capability to make a sideways hover or fix the issues related to it before trying a tweak that does nothing more than make it seem like something was done to hovers. All that will do is let primary hover users whine that they received another nerf and we should be satisfied, all the while knowing the root exploit is still there.

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4 hours ago, Spedemix said:

Public Test Server - to test this stuff out so we can report it doesn't work.

Keep up the good work, Spedemix. You're a 1-Man QA Machine! I can see why they pay you the big bucks!

( But seriously... nice report. Thanks! )

 

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Hovers will not climb they said. Inertia will be reduced they said. Scorpions deframing will not work again they said........

I do not trust them i say.

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I'm starting to think the problem with the hovers is not the hovers but the lack of other mobility focused movement part (and of course the acceleration on wheels they took out for no reason) think about it for a second:  On the epic category, hovers are the only thing that has high mobility, tracks, meatgrinders, legs and bigfoots are all on a slower less manouverable end,  sometimes the solution to an issue is adding something else that competes with it 

Edited by xCrossFaith
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^^Sure, if you ignore the part where it turns out hovers are also literally broken.

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9 hours ago, Spedemix said:

Stuff like this is the reason why people sometimes ask "Do you even play your own game?"

...

Do they?

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3 hours ago, Spedemix said:

^^Sure, if you ignore the part where it turns out hovers are also literally broken.

Half of the game is broken in some way tbh.. XD 

But what I mean is if we had some other movement part with similar mobility, like those sometimes mentioned spherical wheels with great suspension a so on, the difference wouldn't be so huge, or some other type of "climbing" track,  idk I just have that weird view that adding stuff can help the same as tweaking the few stuff we have time and time and time again  (or maybe, start making the bad movement parts into good ones instead of turning the good ones into bad ones.. Wheels, tracks, meatgrinders.. Ya know :P) 

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Just now, xCrossFaith said:

But what I mean is if we had some other movement part with similar mobility, like those sometimes mentioned spherical wheels with great suspension a so on, the difference wouldn't be so huge, or some other type of "climbing" track,  idk I just have that weird view that adding stuff can help the same as tweaking the few stuff we have time and time and time again  (or maybe, start making the bad movement parts into good ones instead of turning the good ones into bad ones.. Wheels, tracks, meatgrinders.. Ya know :P) 

I see where you're coming from.

 

The thing is, devs have made some real chagnes to movement parts and that has made some real changes into this game. One of the biggest examples are ML 200 which went from being completely unusable to meta in a course of 12-18 months. Both tracks and augers have begun a similar path with their first very real tweaks during 2019.

 

The recurring problem with these hovers is no matter what the devs do, they can't seem to impact a real change unto them. Something always goes wrong. This bug in tweak is just a latest example of that.

 

Why is the QA so bad with the hovers and their tweaks? It's almost as if someone at Targem is sabotaging the QA work when it comes to hovers.

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1 hour ago, xCrossFaith said:

Half of the game is broken in some way tbh.. XD 

But what I mean is if we had some other movement part with similar mobility, like those sometimes mentioned spherical wheels with great suspension a so on, the difference wouldn't be so huge, or some other type of "climbing" track,  idk I just have that weird view that adding stuff can help the same as tweaking the few stuff we have time and time and time again  (or maybe, start making the bad movement parts into good ones instead of turning the good ones into bad ones.. Wheels, tracks, meatgrinders.. Ya know :P) 

Maybe you should change your point of view.

If one thing is OP its better to make it a litte bit worse instead of making everything others better. Because if you change everything else, the chance is higher to break things again. 

And climbing makes movement parts OP, if there is just one that can do it.

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25 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

I see where you're coming from.

 

The thing is, devs have made some real chagnes to movement parts and that has made some real changes into this game. One of the biggest examples are ML 200 which went from being completely unusable to meta in a course of 12-18 months. Both tracks and augers have begun a similar path with their first very real tweaks during 2019.

 

The recurring problem with these hovers is no matter what the devs do, they can't seem to impact a real change unto them. Something always goes wrong. This bug in tweak is just a latest example of that.

 

Why is the QA so bad with the hovers and their tweaks? It's almost as if someone at Targem is sabotaging the QA work when it comes to hovers.

Yeah, agree, I've used ML's since the first time they were introduced.. The change was really noticeable XD 

I was not aware of the tracks and grinders changes.. I basically forgot their existance out of aesthetic reasons, that's a good thing then ^^ 

That's also true... Fix one thing, break another... It's hard to believe it's not intentional anymore 

 

28 minutes ago, EGO_Aut said:

Maybe you should change your point of view.

If one thing is OP its better to make it a litte bit worse instead of making everything others better. Because if you change everything else, the chance is higher to break things again. 

And climbing makes movement parts OP, if there is just one that can do it.

Could be.. But the thing is, making everything worse is not the solution either imo, just look at the current state of machine guns to throw in a quick example, I don't think the solution to that would be to cut all alpha weapons damage by 30% or something like that.. If you have 2 things that work and 3 that doesn't, sometimes adding a 3rd thing that also works while working on those that don't can end well (But let's be fair, it seem finding a middle point is quite hard for this game XD) 

That's the thing.. Spiders should also be able to climb, or bigfoots if the terrain is not that steep, but with the limited options we have, it's better to leave that climbing thing as a bug instead of a feature for now, agree with that

 

You can change something a bit every time, but at the end of the day if you only have one thing to work with, it will reach the point that you can't do X with it without Y being affected negatively 

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Sideways hovers should of been addressed since their beginning, its clear they ruin/ignore any kind of hover balancing. People shouldn't have to adjust their controls to play an aspect of the game. It feels like an exploit because it is one.

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5 minutes ago, xXMrSkeletonXx said:

Sideways hovers should of been addressed since their beginning, its clear they ruin/ignore any kind of hover balancing. People shouldn't have to adjust their controls to play an aspect of the game. It feels like an exploit because it is one.

Creating a build within the confines of the games parameters is exploitation? So if you make your build in a way people find unfair (wedge builds) then are you too exploiting the game? No. You are not. If the devs didnt like it they would have addressed it. But this game is about creative building. So unless you want premade vehicles I would cease this type of complaint. 

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4 minutes ago, AzraelsGrace said:

Creating a build within the confines of the games parameters is exploitation? So if you make your build in a way people find unfair (wedge builds) then are you too exploiting the game? No. You are not. If the devs didnt like it they would have addressed it. But this game is about creative building. So unless you want premade vehicles I would cease this type of complaint. 

You don't have to change your controls to run a wedge build lol. My main build is a hover, but I'm objective enough to see its 10x better than a traditional hover build and ignores the balancing. If it's not an exploit then let every kind of build run sideways with the cab out front without remapping controls. 

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10 minutes ago, xXMrSkeletonXx said:

You don't have to change your controls to run a wedge build lol. My main build is a hover, but I'm objective enough to see its 10x better than a traditional hover build and ignores the balancing. If it's not an exploit then let every kind of build run sideways with the cab out front without remapping controls. 

Sideways vehicles work with any strafing part. Not just hovers. As for needing to remap controls. You dont have to. You can learn through practice to fly with standard controls. Remapping just makes it easier to switch between builds. The only difference between standard and sideways is its a lot harder to fight a sideways face to face. But if you hit their sides or back they are much weaker than normal hovers. So its all about adapting your playstyle when fighting them. Everything has a strength and weakness. Sideways hovers are not unbeatable

My sideways spider for example of hovers not being the only one

PS_Messages_20190818_175834.thumb.jpg.55

Edited by AzraelsGrace
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1 hour ago, AzraelsGrace said:

 

Sideways vehicles work with any strafing part. Not just hovers. As for needing to remap controls. You dont have to. You can learn through practice to fly with standard controls. Remapping just makes it easier to switch between builds. The only difference between standard and sideways is its a lot harder to fight a sideways face to face. But if you hit their sides or back they are much weaker than normal hovers. So its all about adapting your playstyle when fighting them. Everything has a strength and weakness. Sideways hovers are not unbeatable

My sideways spider for example of hovers not being the only one

PS_Messages_20190818_175834.thumb.jpg.55

Not unbeatable, but  very difficult to destroy :p

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Sideways hovers: You have the durability of a spider and a maneuverability of... well, a hover.

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26 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

Sideways hovers: You have the durability of a spider and a maneuverability of... well, a hover.

My spider has an overall durability of 13648

My hover (echo typhoon with 11 hovers) has a total of 8662

 

So no they do not. Plus its maneuverability is not equal to a standard 5-7 hover regular build. Those have much better handling and acceleration

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5 minutes ago, AzraelsGrace said:

My spider has an overall durability of 13648

My hover (echo typhoon with 11 hovers) has a total of 8662

 

So no they do not. Plus its maneuverability is not equal to a standard 5-7 hover regular build. Those have much better handling and acceleration

sideways hover do have a similar durability in term of being functional.. your overall durability is higher cause of your legs.. but people won't shoot at your legs to kill or disable you lol. That's why the top clans use mainly typhoon hover with radar, super tanky and insane maneuverability and acceleration.

Your build doesn't even have much space armor, this might be enough to compete on console on the highest level, but not on PC.

Edited by sam93931
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The total durability tells very little in this scenario.

 

Practice has shown me Bastion Spider (Hauler+MJ15) is the only thing in the entire game that can outtank a Typhoon hover in a practical sense - barely. Any other spider build doesn't even come close.

 

This on PC ofc.

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