Ka1deron

[Developer blog] The map “Chemical Plant” and new game modes. Mass testing

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3 hours ago, xXMrSkeletonXx said:

You don't have to change your controls to run a wedge build lol. My main build is a hover, but I'm objective enough to see its 10x better than a traditional hover build and ignores the balancing. If it's not an exploit then let every kind of build run sideways with the cab out front without remapping controls. 

That not an exploit just a features in this game, and Dev don't think that player could use a triks like that. Think like a dev and play like a gamer . That hard to mix this two point of view i think . But  players search all the time a way to brake the game no ? ;p

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After long break I am back. Welcome me I suppose.

So I decided to try my best to become competetive. Bought 2 tsunamis and icebox, became hover at its upper tonnage aprox 16 tons weight) with 8 blue hovers. Should be excellent status to be at yes? Lol, nop. I was manipulated to flow anywhere ground terran expected me to go, seeing dog approaching you from 100 meters? All good, you just need "only" 3 seconds simply to stop. But don't worry in total of 6 seconds you start moving opposite of direction. And by that time any dog does twice tease spins around your hover for the luls. All you can do is "a" or "d" turns, effective for escape yes? Once he decides to attack, he smashes into your sidehull and eats your hovers off within seconds even if your hovers were protected by frames. But you cant even shoot back since spark 

If someone wishes to prove me otherwise then try. Though I am not rich enough to fusion icebox cabin. And if you use hover only with frames that doesnt count.

Now hovers are given opportunity to present themselves as shiny pumpkin on hill as only escape from dogs, though any enemy cannon can see them. And hovers are never good at tanking more than 2 shots. They never will be, neither should be. But at least as glasscannons they should obey to player's directions.

Wtf is the "supernatural hover manouvering"? Am I really that crappy player or what? I even bought master jack's lvl 15 perk, outcome was still failure. Why spiders wont have any button function 3 second delay?

Hover's supernatural manouveeing is it's "a" and "d". All else seen there is just fearful illusion.

Couldn't let this go in my mind, soooh... Here I am!:) Hopefullly missed meh:D

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On 8/23/2019 at 8:43 AM, Anatomycetes said:

Remove the hover change rn

 

What hover change? They haven't changed anything yet, this will be in the public test server silly

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This is insulting Targem. WHY do you insist on this stupid repair feature that has been shot down the first two times???? Above all if you are implementing it why did you ask whether or not we liked the feature, cause it clearly doesn't matter what the customers want. They don't get to have a physics engine overhaul and a true balance pass. If you want to fix the damn hovers, double the spread of their weapons while moving at top speed. Their biggest advantage is being laser accurate with the slowest turning weapons while going over bumps at top speed. Next you simply allow them to flip over, why should hovers be immune to getting flipped? Technically they should be the most unstable part in the game for how floaty and fast they are. By doing those two things you've already decreased the effectiveness of sidehovers by making their users widen them for stability, you've enabled them to flip when they fly up a wall when they panic, and they are no longer laser beam accurate while going at top speed over rough terrain.  

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On 8/23/2019 at 2:47 PM, Spedemix said:

I'm afraid your hover tweak doesn't work properly.

 

I loaded up the one of most popular Cricket hover builds in test server (it uses 8 hovers), took into a custom battle and this is the first thing i did with it:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

After some thorough testing I figured out what the issue is and here's the explanation:

  Hide contents

 

 

TL;DR: This tweak stops working if you offset the weight towards a side. In a sideways hovercraft the weight is pretty much always offset so your tweak doesn't work on 90% of the hover builds which are used in this game.

 

You're gonna have to fix this issue before it can be properly evaluated.

 

The other stuff in test server is great! New map is cool (I love the burning wreckages in the field), the new modes are great too (I liked the Big Bad Flamers). I've yet to test the "Experiment mode" aminly due to this hover testing taking all my time.

I hope they leave that alone, so even if it's just sideways hovers, hovers will fly high again!

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NO NO NO buffing hovers!!!? Why allow hover builds to go where other builds cannot? Why not just reimburse hover owners and REMOVE THEM? All problems solved. It would be a much better game if hovers never happened. You will never get them balanced or fair. How many times have you tried?

NO NO NO repair? U guys clueless as to what that will do?

YES YES YES New map

-Vryce

Edited by vryce
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Pls stop nerfing hovers!!! 

 

And pls buff all armor durability. Armor is a joke ingame. 

 

 

#buffRETCHERdurability 

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7 hours ago, OHBoyNope said:

What hover change? They haven't changed anything yet, this will be in the public test server silly

Test server is not same as what will come in game? :P

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A new map is very good!  thanks devs! but stop concentrating and waste time on this repair system nobody wants!  concentrate on a new faction and new weapons now

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5 hours ago, vryce said:

Why not just reimburse hover owners and REMOVE THEM?

Can you give a single logical reason of why this shouldn't be applied to typhoons  harvesters and shotguns? 

 

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On 8/25/2019 at 12:38 PM, xCrossFaith said:

Can you give a single logical reason of why this shouldn't be applied to typhoons  harvesters and shotguns?

Simple:

 

The devs have been spending a whole two years of redesigning and retweaking those ever since they were introduced. "Annual hover redesign because they once again ended up OP at some PS" is just s single major tweak away from becoming a meme.

 

Well to be fair, Typhoon is only 5 months old so the jury is still out on that one. Harvester has gone through one major change and subsequently some perk changes. But it remained static for years before that.

 

It's not an random these hovers are in a constant state of flux. It's because the devs just can't seem to find a place for them in this game.

Edited by Spedemix
"have been" not "haven't"
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22 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

Simple:

 

The devs haven't spend a whole two years of redesigning and retweaking those ever since they were introduced. "Annual hover redesign because they once again ended up OP at some PS" is just s single major tweak away from becoming a meme.

 

Well to be fair, Typhoon is only 5 months old so the jury is still out on that one. Harvester has gone through one major change and subsequently some perk changes. But it remained static for years before that.

 

It's not an random these hovers are in a constant state of flux. It's because the devs just can't seem to find a place for them in this game.

Yeah, but you'll agree with me that "Well there's a problem, let's remove it entirely" is not necesarily the best thought out solution either XD   

I don't know what "jury" is needed.. Typhoon is the best weapon in the game, and if it's not, it's on the top 2 (truth be said tho... I don't think that's  much a problem with the cannon itself, but with the rest of non alpha damage weapons being close to irrelevant when it comes to a real match situation) 

To be honest, I still think a whole model swap would help a ton with this, It's been proven that tweaking only the stats is not working out,  also the problem with the annual redesign event, is that they seem to be aiming to please everyone, and that's simply impossible to do, in this particular case.. Some people stil have ptsd from their first introduction, some simply don't like them because "muh mad max and sand"  and some people reaaally struggle with them, and the removal option is not viable either, because the game is already on a big content lack, and for example, train prows should be removed as well because of the shotgun builds using it to exploit the bug that makes them so powerful.    Tweaking the stats sometimes is needed of course, but sometimes is better to look at the bigger picture 

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7 hours ago, Spedemix said:

It's not an random these hovers are in a constant state of flux. It's because the devs just can't seem to find a place for them in this game.

They had a place as the fast and mobile movement part (All that needed to happen was a raising of PS to 500 or a higher PS and they'd have been fine.), then players complained and they're still complaining about them.

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^^During late 2018/winter 2019 the devs actually held a PT for keeping the hovers the way they were in 2018 but merely increasing the PS. That was right in the middle of all the other iterations

 

They did the test, they checked the numbers and they didn't go along with the solution. The numbers showed them it wasn'tgonna fix the seal-clubbing.

 

Also, the reason why players are STILL complaining about them is simply because the devs STILL haven't found a place for them in this game. This latest PT proves that. Don't get the chicken and the egg mixed up.

Edited by Spedemix
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I did some more testing with the hovers and have come to the conclusion this tweak is a failure - even when it works correctly.

 

I built a "proper" front facing hovercraft which is unaffected by the weight offset bug and here's how it's doing:

 

Spoiler

 

 

This is how the hovers will climb these unclimbable slopes when the weight offset bug is fixed.

 

I only had time to test these few slopes here but here's the thing: The devs might've gone and blocked access to some of the places hovers tend to go but it doesn't matter, players will use this tweak and simply find new ones and use those.

 

This gets us nowhere.

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38 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

^^During late 2018/winter 2019 the devs actually held a PT for keeping the hovers the way they were in 2018 but merely increasing the PS. That was right in the middle of all the other iterations

 

They did the test, they checked the numbers and they didn't go along with the solution. The numbers showed them it wasn'tgonna fix the seal-clubbing.

Because the PS increase wasn't high enough. Hell, even raising them to 1000 PS per icarus would have been fine as long as they were worth that PS.

40 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

Also, the reason why players are STILL complaining about them is simply because the devs STILL haven't found a place for them in this game. This latest PT proves that. Don't get the chicken and the egg mixed up.

Hovers were literally introduced as the fastest and most agile movement part in the game, then they got boated until that was made impossible. At that point raising their PS high enough so they were balanced was possible. But then the devs went in the direction they did which made them fill the role of being a wheel but they float off the ground, of course that isn't a specialized role and their stats were still based around being the fastest and most agile movement part. The devs need to either revert them to what they were and then just give them a proper PS matching their potential or properly buff them (No tonnage increases, if they're going to be just like any other movement part then they need a health increase of 100 at a minimum.) and raise their PS accordingly.

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^^I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

Icarus is an Epic movement part. Thus its suppose to be balanced with ML 200, Bigfoot and every single Track. If Icarus is clearly better choice than any other Epic movement part, it means Icarus is too strong, simple as that. If Icarus was legendary movement part, then we'd be talking. But it isn't so we aren't.

 

When people say "just increase the PS" they are actually pretty much agreeing with me. "It's clearly better so it has to be higher PS, yeah that makes sense". They think increasing the PS will solve it all.

 

It's kinda like Radar Armor: You get much much better armor at the cost of much much higher PS and look where it has gotten us! Do you think increasing the powerscore of radars will fix the issues with Radar armor?

 

Just like a 6-energy weapon proven to be OP is not going to stay that way and get a mere PS increase (because the whole PS of weapons is based on PS per energy system), no Epic movement part is gonna go past a Goliath track in terms of PS and essentially break the rarity system.

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23 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

Icarus is an Epic movement part. Thus its suppose to be balanced with ML 200, Bigfoot and every single Track. If Icarus is clearly better choice than any other Epic movement part, it means Icarus is too strong, simple as that. If Icarus was legendary movement part, then we'd be talking. But it isn't so we aren't.

And currently it isn't too strong. You have to use a sideways hover or boat them to for hovers to be decent.

26 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

When people say "just increase the PS" they are actually pretty much agreeing with me. "It's clearly better so it has to be higher PS, yeah that makes sense". They think increasing the PS will solve it all.

PS is a rating of how strong an item is, for a ML 200 it's only 225, an armored track is only 360, and the list goes on. For an item that's balanced in all other ways PS is the last outlet that can be altered. With how hovers used to be, they needed a higher PS because weakening them by making them dependent on power, lowering their health, and everything didn't solve any of the complaints that players leveraged. Now they need buffs because they've been overnerfed.

42 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

It's kinda like Radar Armor: You get much much better armor at the cost of much much higher PS and look where it has gotten us! Do you think increasing the powerscore of radars will fix the issues with Radar armor?

And where is that radar armor at? It's at high PS where it doesn't matter as much as hovers being used at lower PS.

43 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

Just like a 6-energy weapon proven to be OP is not going to stay that way and get a mere PS increase (because the whole PS of weapons is based on PS per energy system), no Epic movement part is gonna go past a Goliath track in terms of PS and essentially break the rarity system.

A proven OPed weapon that has had it's stats changed endlessly to no avail has only PS left to change. Otherwise change it's stats so it's balanced.

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15 hours ago, SIGMA920 said:

Otherwise change it's stats so it's balanced.

Yes.

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16 hours ago, SIGMA920 said:

Just like a 6-energy weapon proven to be OP is not going to stay that way and get a mere PS increase (because the whole PS of weapons is based on PS per energy system), no Epic movement part is gonna go past a Goliath track in terms of PS and essentially break the rarity system.

yes but i still think its stupid tbh, why not use PS to balance things instead on holding on to that system?
- Most players dont know about it anyway
- Could help solve a lot of seal clubbing problems while not affecting high PS play or CW
- *not verifyed* but if i remember right (at work here) some cabins with special perks do have higher PS even tough they provide the same or even less energy than other cabins. Does that make sense?

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^^I'll say it again: Radars.

 

You equip Radars, you get much better durability for your weight at the cost of higher PS. While this is not a problem in low-PS, it plagues the high-PS where the best crafts are 15K Hover Typhoons.

 

It might help with items which are OP at low PS and seemingly balanced in high PS, but what about items which are OP at the endgame? Are we just gonna boost the PS of such items so high we create their own PS tier for them?

 

Now I guess you could argue in favor that: "Just let the 15k PS radar hover Phoons be their own tier and call it day". Is that really how we want this game to be balanced? Each movement type or specific build type makes it own tier and only queues against itself?

 

Are we as community so in love with these hovers we wouldn't mind if we'd spend the rest of your days playing hovers fighting against other hovers? And does that mean anybody who doesn't play hovers can forget about competetive modes which doesn't use PS-based MM like CW?

 

While there are some balance issues with the Epic cabins and their perks in relation to PS, that could be perhaps solved with just decreasing the PS of all 1800PS cabins down to 1500PS. All those cabins are 12-energy cabins to be exact and includes cabins like Cerberus and Harpy.

 

Anybody who've paid any attention to what I've said in the recent past knows I advocate for two things: Nerfing the Typhoon AND increasing the PS of all the Relics (and Legendaries for that matter). Increasing the PS will create a more strict tiered MM between different rarities (aka fix seal-clubbing) while Typhoon nerf will fix the balance issues the weapons has in the PS range you're suppose to play with it at. The latter problem won't be fixed with just upping the PS endlessly.

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@Blasted_Off WHY ANOTHER TYPHOON NERF? ARE YOU OK?

NOBODY IN THIS TOPIC WAS TALKING ABOUT NERFING THINGS, STOP CRYING PLEASE....

TYPHOONS NEED A RELOAD SPEED BUFF........

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yes this game going to be really fun :005j:

 

 

Edited by LOoD

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