KEKLord

CLAN WARS are getting really stale

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For the past 3 months in Clan Wars from ranks 200 all to rank 1 all you see are:
Typhoon hovers(Sometimes Bastion spiders with typhoons)
Melee (Lancevesters, sometimes they exchange few lances into firebugs)

Thats about all the diversity there is in all uranium leagues in clan wars and it's getting really boring.
You either heve to trade shots with hovers that have so many radars they can see into the future and getting shot back by typhoons, or you try not to get lanced, just to get lanced by the other melee guy.
I'm not calling anything OP, just saying from my perspective, that it's really boring and there is no diversity in clan wars.

Screenshot_2.png.fe1da70b1176d3e0ac4e18b

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I agree, its because the high ps balance is totally out of whack. Its almost the same picture in high ps pvp.

From how the situation looks atm it seems the idea is that relics are supposed to be clearly stronger than legendaries. people say the breaker is trash, but they are a lot stronger than hammerfalls. Same thing with punisher, maybe to a lesser degree and firebug vs draco, or harvester for that matter.

So imo even if the meta were to move away from typhoons it would be one of the, very limited in numbers, other relics which would in turn become stale again quickly.

Relics should be special, not straight up upgrades compared to legendaries. Ideally this should also apply to epics.

Imagine if all purple+ weapons were balanced in a way that makes them equally viable but with different traits and perks, it would be so much more interesting to play this game and come up with comps and strategies for cw.

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I dont think expecting everything to be solved with buffs and nerfs is the answer. You cant combat focus firing someone, cannons will beat mgs .there isnt a counter to  " hit player A in the middle"  you just cant

But

They could add a 1v1 weekly tournament to start inbetween clan war schedule. I guarentee a typhoon hover would not be on top of that and youd see weapons of all sorts come out of the woodwork

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Yeah.. I've been playing only CW for the past couple months because the game was getting too boring, and now I don't bother with some of the sesion because of this same reason...  It's just tyring to see the same stuff 24/7 :/ 

 

(Btw what the hell is a Tornado?)

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^^Prob Cyclone (this sheet is translated from russian)

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50 minutes ago, Babylonsburning said:

I dont think expecting everything to be solved with buffs and nerfs is the answer. You cant combat focus firing someone, cannons will beat mgs .there isnt a counter to  " hit player A in the middle"  you just cant

But

They could add a 1v1 weekly tournament to start inbetween clan war schedule. I guarentee a typhoon hover would not be on top of that and youd see weapons of all sorts come out of the woodwork

   Yeah, this is why we should be able to play Raids without requiring fuel, so that if we are sick of dealing with meta spam, we can go play PvP without restriction, and make coins that way.  

   This way no buffs or nerfs are required.

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3 hours ago, dexterrrrrrr said:

From how the situation looks atm it seems the idea is that relics are supposed to be clearly stronger than legendaries. people say the breaker is trash, but they are a lot stronger than hammerfalls. Same thing with punisher, maybe to a lesser degree and firebug vs draco, or harvester for that matter.

 

They are, they were also supposed to be unique weapons too through. The typhoon, breaker, and punisher are just better than their lower rarity counterparts.

3 hours ago, dexterrrrrrr said:

Relics should be special, not straight up upgrades compared to legendaries. Ideally this should also apply to epics.

Imagine if all purple+ weapons were balanced in a way that makes them equally viable but with different traits and perks, it would be so much more interesting to play this game and come up with comps and strategies for cw.

They mostly are already. An executioner has penetration that the tsunami doesn't. An aspect wants a high "heating value" unlike a spectre which is better for anyone with a good enough aim. The mammoth has high health and is better at doing damage from it's perk compared to the fatman which has a reload boosting perk which changes the playstyle from tanking damage with the mammoth to doing damage and avoiding getting hit. The whirlwind gets a straight damage boost over range because it's a sniping weapons when the cyclone is a brawling weapon and it's perk reflects that. I can go on as well.

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Yeah i know about the perks of those weapons. However, all of the weapons youve mentioned are clearly a lot stronger in the legendary version.

Only the whirlwind has a totally different playstyle compared to the cyclone but is still absolutely worse in general.

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1 hour ago, dexterrrrrrr said:

Yeah i know about the perks of those weapons. However, all of the weapons youve mentioned are clearly a lot stronger in the legendary version.

Only the whirlwind has a totally different playstyle compared to the cyclone but is still absolutely worse in general.

More damage /= better. A good example is how dual tsunami build can't 1-shot someone because their shots penetrated the armor and killed explosive modules that were otherwise protected. That's a "weaker" weapon that can out do the "clearly stronger" weapon.

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Oh typhoon Kapkan is stale,shotgun wedge or barn is stale,lance harvester push teams are stale.Interesting mid to long range are under powered creating a boring easy mode environment,who have thought?

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2 minutes ago, Chevypimp said:

Oh typhoon Kapkan is stale,shotgun wedge or barn is stale,lance harvester push teams are stale.Interesting mid to long range are under powered creating a boring easy mode environment,who have thought?

 

2 minutes ago, AmongstEnemies said:

communism in theory vs communism in practice. LOL

No.

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Fully agree. 

 

The whole imbalance of this game makes it boring as fugggg. 

 

 

I hope I can climb with legs n tracks  and fly with hovers soon. 

 

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7 minutes ago, AmongstEnemies said:

equal balance is impossible to acheive, due to human performance and strategy. 

 

6190772a-21f5-48ea-aa81-82b2a3f8939b.jpg

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1 hour ago, AmongstEnemies said:

so you can account for human error, latency, connection, various servers, player skill, and make everything equal dps? No, you dolt. 

This has nothing to do with X or Y weapon overperforming tbh.

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@AmongstEnemies

Yeah dont be that guy who saw 2 history channel docs about communism and listens to conservative radio talk shows. The comparison is just wrong.

There is always a flavor of the month, a meta, but the approach to weapon balancing doesnt have to be higher tier = better, it could very well be higher tier = more specialized.

 

@SIGMA920

Ive played a lot of 3x executioner hover and then got tsunamis. The latter is straight up better in max ps because of free energy for modules, structure, hitbox and shell velocity. Going down in ps there is probably going to be breaking point where executioners start to become equal and then better.

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6 hours ago, dexterrrrrrr said:

There is always a flavor of the month, a meta, but the approach to weapon balancing doesnt have to be higher tier = better, it could very well be higher tier = more specialized.

And that how it currently is:

Avenger: basic cannon.

Judge: basic cannot with better explosive radius.

Executioner: perk let's your shots penetrate armor so mosr spaced armor can be ignored.

Tsunami: accurate at long range with high projectile speed  and low drop.

Typhoon: "I'm an over powered abomination".

7 hours ago, dexterrrrrrr said:

Ive played a lot of 3x executioner hover and then got tsunamis. The latter is straight up better in max ps because of free energy for modules, structure, hitbox and shell velocity. Going down in ps there is probably going to be breaking point where executioners start to become equal and then better.

At max PS, of course most anything short of relics or a few of the more powerful legendaries will be a joke simply because of it being relic territory. That doesn't mean you judge them or anything else based off the highest PS you can go to. SMGs are complete sh!t except for the moderately decent fidgit as far I'm concerned but that's because I judge them based on the PS you most find them in.

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"fully balanced"

Yes there is always going to be a meta, but you could still strive for balance. Balance is what makes games interesting, atm its boring because the game is too unbalanced.

Its not clever to use radars as armor when they have almost twice the durability per surface area per mass compared to any other armor part, its the obvious choice. You cant even be smart in a situation like this, the choices are so limited that it has all just been copy pasting for months.

I was betting on the devs quickly changing radars because they changed how decor works. Its plain stupid to change the latter and then leave the former in the game because its entirely inconsistent. And we all know theyre going to change radars at some point. Just not to actually find a better balance, but to introduce a new imbalance. And then its rinse and repeat. Same thing with typhoons.

I gave up on the idea that the devs are trying to actually balance the game, its all about hopping on the new meta as quickly as possible and then play that for 4 months to then hop on the next thing. Be it radar armor or typhoons.

I see it as a sign of stupidity to see any form of cleverness in all of this. The couple of people who were the first were smarter than the rest, but its all so obvious, it was bound to turn out this way.

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1 hour ago, AmongstEnemies said:

the truth is that it’s actually not possible to balance a game like this.

It's never trully possible to balance options. At some points when comparing two options one will statistically be better as long as both arn't completely identical.

BUT there exist an other option: Balanced imbalance. If devs take time to think about it they can choose which thing should be better than which and make sure nothing is on top.

An exemple : Weapon A, B and C exist. It's possible to have A better than B, B better than C and C better than A.

For instance (purely an example by me, other circles can work) if done correctly, stealth harvester could counter canons because stealth us good against them and harvesters have a huge explosive resistance.

Canons would counter machineguns because they disarm them easily.

To end the loop machineguns would have a good matchup against harvesters.

Those would not be hard counter but slight advantages. Same for movment parts and other pieces. There should be no part that is just better in all situations.

 

Right now though, heat based weapons have all the same problem in CW: While they are fairly efficient in normal matches, they don't have a good alpha strike and no oopf. They are shreded by spider cannons (way too many HP for heat weapons to disarm them efficiently) and don't have a matchup that good against harvesters. Of course the balance can go an other direction, it could be the harvester that are built to counter cannons if devs want. 

But a choice must be made so that if at any point a build become oppressive you can create a counter. That would force the meta to be more diverse and reward people that read it and pick to counter common picks.

Edited by ZERGOR
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The point is:

-people are getting bored for lack of diversity.

I would suggest to introduce several resctrictions on clan wars. Being it permanent or per session. Example: 1 session you can't use a kind of weapon.

What would be better to increase diversity and gameplay would be the add of classes to the game. You could use in a team 1 of each. Example: 1 short range, 1 medium range, 1 long range, 1 whatever. That would end the cry about melee teams rushing or the cry about typhoon hover teams that are impossible to get close by.

 

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nice topic by a player using hover full radar with harvester lance team .... ho yes it's boring to see only that's but you like play that's XD

where is the joke !!!

start with your team to play another build ...

Edited by LOoD

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11 minutes ago, LOoD said:

nice topic by a player using hover full radar with harvester lance team .... ho yes it's boring to see only that's but you like play that's XD

where is the joke !!!

start with your team to play another build ...

While personally I prefer sticking to my suboptimal build in CW I can't throw stones at him for playing the best build while saying it's not fun.

Some people want to win and will play a frustrating unfun build to win. That doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer having more choice but that their priority is winning. Different people seek different things in this game and we can respect that.

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20 minutes ago, ZERGOR said:

While personally I prefer sticking to my suboptimal build in CW I can't throw stones at him for playing the best build while saying it's not fun.

Some people want to win and will play a frustrating unfun build to win. That doesn't mean they wouldn't prefer having more choice but that their priority is winning. Different people seek different things in this game and we can respect that.

well said :)

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@AmongstEnemies

I cant tell if youre just playing muppet or not i guess you are.

Cant perfectly balance yes, can balance a lot better than the devs seem to be inclined to do, definitely. The typhoon and radars are obviously unbalanced.

I dont buy that the devs couldnt figure out in advance that radars are going to be used as armor upon removal of decor. Their stats are almost 200% durability at 66% of the weight of a comparable in size armor part with a durability/mass ratio which is 200% as good as the best structure parts in this regard.

The imbalance is intended, probably so s00ckers spend.

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7 minutes ago, dexterrrrrrr said:

The imbalance is intended, probably so s00ckers spend.

Hanlon's razor: Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

I'll temper a bit for the poor devs because this is a harsh statement: Balancing is hard and I don't think devs are incompetents. Just that there are failures in the balance part of the game which could and should have been patched by now.

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I think thats very naive. Its like gamers trying to explain to companies how they should monetize their game and generally giving them business advice. Guess what, those companies actually turn a profit, some janitor gamer or 4. semester psychology student isnt going to tell them anything they dont already know.

You and i have never single handedly created a game and succesfully marketed it before, we dont know better than targem/gajin.

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