ZERGOR

A more robust structure: welding strength

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14 minutes ago, forc3dinduction said:

lets say you have a piece with 30 weld points, 100 structure and 100 hp

Let's say a Truck Door.  That's 4x8 on the back.  So, if you put 2 Gun Mounts behind it, so that both 4x4 Bases have complete contact, then that's 32 Weld Points, total.  That reinforces the Truck Door's Durability.

I assume much like armor on the Cabin reinforces Cabin Health, but I don't really understand that system completely.

Edited by psiberzerker

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11 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Let's say a Truck Door.  That's 4x8 on the back.  So, if you put 2 Gun Mounts behind it, so that both 4x4 Bases have complete contact, then that's 32 Weld Points, total.  That reinforces the Truck Door's Durability.

I assume much like armor on the Cabin reinforces Cabin Health, but I don't really understand that system completely.

truck door has 88 weld points in total.

20-50% means using 18-44 weld points just for it to behave normally.

17 or less: penalty, your massive part is now weaker than it could be, and blast damage to it will result in more damage to parts near it.

45 or more: bonus, your massive part is connected firmly and contributing to the rigidity of your armor

Edited by forc3dinduction

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6 minutes ago, forc3dinduction said:

truck door has 88 weld points in total.

Right, but I'm just counting the ones on the back.  Both for simplicity, and also to expose it to Direct Damage.  Penetration, and Blast Damage is a whole nother can of worms, which would seriously complicate this discussion, so let's assume something like a machine-gun, or shotgun so we know how much damage we're talking about.

Using Layered Armor as a reinforced Plate, with shoot-through structures behind it.  That means just using the Weld Points behind it.

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blast damage works pretty basic.

once its damage is used up or max blast radius is reached, it stops. 

making weakly attacked parts less durable will make them and parts near it more vulnerable to blast damage.

hitscan weps are easy and will simply benefit directly.

and your large truck door most likely will also have some neighbor parts on its sides or the bottom, exceeding the 50% weld points used.

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23 minutes ago, forc3dinduction said:

and your large truck door most likely will also have some neighbor parts on its sides or the bottom, exceeding the 50% weld points used.

True, I just wanted to simplify the equation, so I went with a bare-minimum of Parts.  Say i did such a structure, with 2 Gun Mounts, and 1 Truck Door, 32 total Weld Points to cover the side of say a Quantum Cab.

How much stronger would the reinforced Truck Door be than say the same part hanging off the end of a Small Buggy Floor (2 weld points)?

Just trying to get a line on the Scaling here.  Then we can start theorycrafting more reinforcement, as needed.  I get the concept, but the numbers are still pretty hard to illustrate.

Edited by psiberzerker

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Still no official word on this one eh? Lame...

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Bump @Woodyrojo @Beta_Angel Tons of likes and ideas thrown in that thread over a very short period of time. Some word about it would be nice.

From where I stand it just makes building more intuitive and logical, and I can't see how that would be bad for the game. Visual feedback is a very important part of a game, yet in XO the ships that look the flimsiest and crappiest are actually the toughest.

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Doing gods work posting stuff like that. +1

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On 2/16/2020 at 7:06 PM, PlagueBro said:

This shouldn't be too hard to program.

Right?

Right?

It wouldn't be that hard, it's a xxxxxng stupid idea through.

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On 12/15/2019 at 12:05 AM, forc3dinduction said:

since devs officially would like the builds to resemble cars, many structure parts have been made with limited weld points and certain shapes to limit their use to certain parts of a car (for example fenders, bumpers etc to shape the outside of the build).

 

Man, i wish there really was more vehicles looking like they might be really somehow possible in reality.

In some Mr.G vid i heard a cool thing, he mentioned "Driver visibility" and thats a nice little demand. Building so that atleast windshield is visible, even just a bit, so that driver really could sew something. Not to mention front side windows...sure, there could be ehhaust pipes or similar pipe/mesh/windowed stuff but still, driver could see something.

But its so heavily always, it seems, all about endless ps and other stats chat, more than keepin it real-ish.

Luckily we can still build them the way we want but i sure would like to see visually pleasing more realistic structure parts like grilles with good proportions when compared with cavs / wheels, and so on.

About welding points i can say that yeah, i could use more, mostly in cab roofs and in example in that hot rod trunk piece. Throw away its lid, and put a bit deep trunk in it, with some flat space for guy to yank a small cooler or gun mount bits in it. 

In trade for more roof spots ,the door spots could be taken off, and this would maybe mean more car looking cars in the game. 

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New cannon rework is begin for Devs to consider this suggestion once again... why are they being so stuborn about this one????

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Reworking the projectile damage is prob easier than implementing the %-based resistance thingy.

 

If it does indeed work out, then it's good. But I'm a little doubtful since this solution offered in his thread is pretty much foolproof.

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i've also thought about a dura buff or weapon accuracy buff if the driver can see out the windows. would also add that the cab would also need to be facing the same direction as the guns, so to not give the buffs to sideways hovers

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So hyped about explosion changes. But if they turn out lackluster and solve nothing, ima drop full detailed guide on spaced armor.

"how to not get one shotted by cannon and turn your "car" into ugly cheese"(guilde title is in beta just like crossout)

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Heck yea! Viable builds that don't look tetanus inducing pancakes!

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Rather than having welding strength affect part durability, which is useless because spaced armor is designed to take a number of hits rather than a number of damage, have it so that a part with weaker welding strength will have a higher chance of large projectiles phasing through it. Cannon shots explode on impact, and this is why spaced armor is useful.

 

Welding strength should affect the chance for a part to have projectiles phase through it, with 5 levels of welding strength depending on how many contact points the armor piece is using.

 

at welding strength level one with 1 connection point, parts have a 67.5% chance for a projectile to phase through it rather than explode on contact.

 

at welding strength level 2 with 2 connection points, parts have a 50% chance for a projectile to phase through it

 

at welding strength level 3 with 3 connection points, parts have a 33% chance for a projectile to phase through it

 

at welding strength level 4 with 4 connection points, parts have a 16% chance for a projectile to phase through it

 

at welding strength level 5 with 5 connection points, parts have a 0% chance for a projectile to phase through it.

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On 2/20/2020 at 9:20 PM, Siberian_Jay3x6 said:

Man, i wish there really was more vehicles looking like they might be really somehow possible in reality.

In some Mr.G vid i heard a cool thing, he mentioned "Driver visibility" and thats a nice little demand. Building so that atleast windshield is visible, even just a bit, so that driver really could sew something. Not to mention front side windows...sure, there could be ehhaust pipes or similar pipe/mesh/windowed stuff but still, driver could see something.

But its so heavily always, it seems, all about endless ps and other stats chat, more than keepin it real-ish.

Luckily we can still build them the way we want but i sure would like to see visually pleasing more realistic structure parts like grilles with good proportions when compared with cavs / wheels, and so on.

About welding points i can say that yeah, i could use more, mostly in cab roofs and in example in that hot rod trunk piece. Throw away its lid, and put a bit deep trunk in it, with some flat space for guy to yank a small cooler or gun mount bits in it. 

In trade for more roof spots ,the door spots could be taken off, and this would maybe mean more car looking cars in the game. 

There are no windows on Steppe Spider :DD

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19 hours ago, Kipkipjlt said:

Rather than having welding strength affect part durability, which is useless because spaced armor is designed to take a number of hits rather than a number of damage, have it so that a part with weaker welding strength will have a higher chance of large projectiles phasing through it. Cannon shots explode on impact, and this is why spaced armor is useful.

 

Welding strength should affect the chance for a part to have projectiles phase through it, with 5 levels of welding strength depending on how many contact points the armor piece is using.

 

at welding strength level one with 1 connection point, parts have a 67.5% chance for a projectile to phase through it rather than explode on contact.

 

at welding strength level 2 with 2 connection points, parts have a 50% chance for a projectile to phase through it

 

at welding strength level 3 with 3 connection points, parts have a 33% chance for a projectile to phase through it

 

at welding strength level 4 with 4 connection points, parts have a 16% chance for a projectile to phase through it

 

at welding strength level 5 with 5 connection points, parts have a 0% chance for a projectile to phase through it.

I dont see the point, as the intertia of a 300kg truck door in its own is enough to make it stay immobile while a cannon shell is fast enough to pass through it. No matter if the truck door is just standing on the ground or if it is firmly held all around by other parts.

And what do you do with parts that have only 1 connection point for example ? They would be at "welding strength level 1" forever ?

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Another point : very small/light parts could be used to artificially increase the number of welding spots used, without legitimally making the part stronger. For example if I put 10 ducks on a "roof part", should this really make the roof part stronger ? :008:

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On 4/10/2020 at 8:11 AM, JCDG said:

Another point : very small/light parts could be used to artificially increase the number of welding spots used, without legitimally making the part stronger. For example if I put 10 ducks on a "roof part", should this really make the roof part stronger ? :008:

We could make modules with high durability (like engines) obey this rule while making decor parts exempt from it. This way, you can't create sealclubbing glass cannons and not use decor as armor boosters.

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On 4/10/2020 at 1:11 PM, JCDG said:

Another point : very small/light parts could be used to artificially increase the number of welding spots used, without legitimally making the part stronger. For example if I put 10 ducks on a "roof part", should this really make the roof part stronger ? :008:

Adding decor to the outside of a structure wouldn't change anything. If you shoot the decor with bullet damage, you need to destroy the decor first, it falls off and the part underneath loses the resistance. If you shoot it with explosives, the decor takes full damage from the explosive projectile and falls off and after that the projectile actually explodes on the surface of the structure part behind it that has already lost the bonus from the decor. Only exception would be with autocannons that deal lower damage than is the HP of certain decor parts, but I don't really see an issue with that - they would still hold the advantage over bullet damage that actually has to destroy the decor items first.

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On 4/10/2020 at 2:11 PM, JCDG said:

Another point : very small/light parts could be used to artificially increase the number of welding spots used, without legitimally making the part stronger. For example if I put 10 ducks on a "roof part", should this really make the roof part stronger ? :008:

If you put the ducks in front, they can be shot off super easily bringing the resistance back down for the bigger part.

 

Hiding the ducks behind the part would consume your part budget (which vital at higher PS) not to mention how it increases your powerscore drastically.

 

Edit: Lemmy is faster than me.

Edited by Spedemix
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