Comrade_Tiki

Weighted average max speed from movement parts

Recommended Posts

What a word sandwich there (I had a rought night), so let me see if I understand: you want lighter movement parts to give a boost to the speed capped parts (a.k.a. tracks, augers and even legs)?

If so, you have my upvote. I'm tired of having my wheel affect my track speed when reversing or my multi-tracked build being stuck with the Goliath's sluggishness :006j:

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, lucashc90 said:

you want lighter faster movement parts to give a boost to the speed capped parts (a.k.a. tracks, augers and even legs)?

Yes, essentially. Instead of slow movement parts having a hard-cap, they have a soft-cap.
If you use big, heavy tracks, then a light wheel will have very little effect on your movement speeds.

Here's a simpler example of this weighted average:

  • If you install 2000 kg of 70 km/h parts + 2000 kg of 90 km/h parts, then your vehicle is limited to 80 km/h.
    (This is equal to 4 Hardened tracks + about 11 Small tracks)
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of weight I think that the power multiplier seem a better way to make the calculations. Makes more sense too : The more power a wheel uses the most it contributes to speed.

We would get (with Armoreted tracks using each 0.5 power and APC wheels using 0.15):

  • Forward speed, originally 50 km/h:
    • [(2 Armored tracks * 1.0 * 50 km/h) + (2 APC wheels * 0.3 * 90 km/h)] / (1.3) = 59.23 km/h
  • Reverse speed, originally 27 km/h:
    • [(2 Armored tracks * 1.0 * 50 km/h) + (2 APC wheels * 0.3 * 90 km/h * 30% in reverse)] / (1.3) = 44.69 km/h

Anyway I like the idea. I think though that the wheels 30% limite backward is a very odd one in the first place. Wheels don't really need that kind of handicap.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Between this and the welding points resistence idea, this game would improve 200% imho.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This idea is great. Basing the weighting on tonnage makes sense because that's where the vehicle's engine power is going, so the final result is more proportionally representative. But weight seems fair, too.

The issue is with mixing strafing and non-strafing parts. Are the non-strafing parts counted as 0 km/h, or disregarded from the calculation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FWIW, using 4 ML 200 legs and 4 Icarus hovers on a Steppe Spider yields a 56.5km/h top speed, almost the same as the top speed of the cabin itself. I'm not sure if taht could be a problem.

 

Other than that, I think the idea is pretty solid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No.

Because then everyone will use track shields. Or Grinder shields. Or whatever.

Yes, it punishes half-tracks. And HONEST diversity. But it's also pretty simple. Crossout is, like it or not, kind of simple in terms of its data and number crunching. They don't even show us the numbers. If you have to bust out spreadsheets to figure out your speed, that's too much.

Also, I'm kind of against...jeez, I forget the term for it. Brainfart. Taking only the highest benefits of everything. It's a game term. Anyway, if you add wheels, you lose power. Adding stuff like hovers, ML Legs, tracks (as armor), big foots (for distance perk), can really help a car. But the downside is you keep draining power and suffer max speed limits. If there is no downside, you can, and will, have flying hover tanks that are actually really agile and fast and whose hovers are encased in tracks. You can add a ton of spiked wheels to your hover and bypass the speed limitation. Or do the same with grinders or goliaths. The small wheels will be floating in the air but will magically make you go (much) faster.

You CAN combine wacky wheels. I do it. Lots of ppl do. Legs + rear hovers. Legs + tracks. Grinders + Wheels. Tracks + Tracks + Tracks. If nothing else, it gives you tonnage. And you can add a Golden Eagle and get +10 kmh, which is huge. But the idea that 2 heavy tracks + 2 armored tracks has a higher top speed (but less power) than just 2 armored tracks is odd. You could stick on light tracks or ANY faster wheels just to give you a speed boost. People already complain about goliaths/ML Legs/hovers and this will make them better because you happen to have some regular wheels that may or may not even touch the ground. I don't see that as helping the game and it feels kind of like rule abuse.

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As with any new idea, there is potential for abuse, and Duke brings up a good point.

Adding wheels and/or small tracks to hovers would boost their top forward (and backward, with tracks) top speeds, but at the penalty of strafing, if non-strafing parts are considered to have strafe speeds of 0.

Grinders + Goliath would have a similar issue.

Hovers are the fastest strafing mobility part, so they have no way of using this system to boost their strafe speed.

Legs using hovers would certainly boost spider builds (especially with steppe spider), but legs are so much larger that they would outweigh the hovers unless there were a lot of them

The main benefactors, I predict, would be tracked and half-tracked vehicles. For tracked vehicles, a couple heavy tracks can be offset by some smaller ones, so a vehicle isn't just anchored to the slowest one, and smaller tracks' top speeds aren't wasted.

 

So, to prevent the possibility of abuse you raised awareness of, non-strafing parts would need to be treated as if they had strafe speeds of 0. A hover with track-armor would have half their mobility directions severely compromised.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2019 at 11:19 AM, forc3dinduction said:

sounds good.

maybe weigh them by tonnage

Each time I re-visit this idea, Tonnage makes more & more sense. I mean, that's what "Tonnage" is -- how much weight each wheel is rated to support -- right?

On 10/5/2019 at 8:12 PM, dukerustfield said:

You could stick on light tracks or ANY faster wheels just to give you a speed boost. People already complain about goliaths/ML Legs/hovers and this will make them better because you happen to have some regular wheels that may or may not even touch the ground.

The current use of Tonnage is a bit broken by considering the tonnage of ungrounded movement parts. (Example: Overtonnage Hover flies lower to ground, but adding wheels causes it to fly higher again). If this ever gets fixed to consider the "effective" tonnage of a raised movement parts to be 0, then this system [if considering Tonnage] may ignore the influence of raised parts, because they are mathematically weighted by their effective Tonnage.

Added floating parts, in that case, would only induce a Power penalty. If that issue is not fixed, then the power penalty remains + such parts would slightly benefit forward hover speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like this would end up mainly being used to cheese the system by tacking a few of the fastest wheels on every vehicle to make it go faster even if they can't even touch the ground. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Aetrion said:

I feel like this would end up mainly being used to cheese the system by tacking a few of the fastest wheels on every vehicle to make it go faster even if they can't even touch the ground. 

And how heavy/how much tonnage do these wheels give?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Aetrion said:

I feel like this would end up mainly being used to cheese the system by tacking a few of the fastest wheels on every vehicle to make it go faster even if they can't even touch the ground. 

That's why I have the opinion that such a system should have the speeds weighted by tonnage before averaging. Two Goliaths and two Small tracks should have very little speed advantage over just the Goliaths on their own.

Also, non-strafing parts should have a strafe speed of 0, so a hover with a wheel or track attached will lose a lot of strafe speed.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have updated the Spreadsheet to include recent movement parts (and to update the stats of Special wheels), and I also calculate new speeds weighted by part Tonnage. (For simplicity, all wheels are considered ST)
Here is the link again: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hhjRvJox-z_T_bMfeFnYWS61pISJhLNDoO7PStzESy8/edit#gid=1280840516

5 hours ago, DominusPericulum said:

Also, non-strafing parts should have a strafe speed of 0...

Yes, either that solution, or tonnage of moment parts should be discarded unless they are touching the ground. (Re-calculate every time a movement part leaves a surface or returns to the ground)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to see this idea is still alive. What I'm not glad is to see its still being ignored by those who make the decisions up there.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^I pretty much decided to bump and link this thread and the welding strength thread as long as I play this game.

I think they're both excellent ways to improve the game on every level:

-Intuitivity. They're both logical things that players naturally try before discovering the cryptic side of the game. (I think winning should be about skill and tactics and not about how much time you spent looking for the game's hidden mechanisms online)
-Creativity and freedom of build (If devs don't want to limit the use of radars and come up with cryptic solutions, surely this wich is not cryptic and 100% intuitive is something they should love)
-Prettier builds

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/17/2020 at 12:33 PM, Clebardman said:

-Intuitivity
-Creativity
-Prettier

I think that was what they were first aiming at when they came up with the "Craft Ride Destroy" moto. ^ Sums up my expectations pretty well ^

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally someone doing gods work.

No damned useless cosmetics, no packs, no clones of parts we already got in game.

Crossout is a complete joke right now. We need more changes to base game mechanics 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.