CS_2492

Enough Is Enough Targem. End The Difficulty Modifier Of Raids.

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On 10/9/2019 at 3:51 PM, Babylonsburning said:

I dunno what to tell you man. People always say silly things like "you dont remember what its like to start out".. when in actuality, i do, but they dont know how to compare starting today vs over 2 years ago. Because they werent there.

It was a lot harder back then, in fact someone could have what i have in 5 months if they started right now with no packs. Easy raids, higher pvp rewards .

 But i stand firm that badges are the real demise of this game. And ill tell you why

From my point of view, theres nothing to do. No incentive to grind. Anymore. Why would i spend hours grinding out plastic for example when it takes 4.5 matches at 7 minutes per match, to make 100 plastic that sells for 45-50 coins. When before  it was well over 200 coins. All it takes is an hour of clan wars and you can sell 20 uranium for 1200 coins and buy all the plastic or whatever you want.

The best thing they could do with this game is add another tier of weapon or some other kind of perk, from a new game mode, so theres something for vets to do. Because i do t see them deleting badges, but they really should do that.

Devaluing resources is silly from everyones point of view. Boring raids are even more boring when the reward is worthless.

 

 

 

   Then stop lying maliciously by saying raids are too easy to try to get Targem to make them more unbeatable.   You slimy Clan Wars Elites are all the same.  You have no regard for average gamers.  You think something is easy, then declare it arrogantly a public fact by brigading the forums to try to mislead the devs with your high status and repetition. 

   You are probably also lying deliberately, because Clan Wars Elites don't even play raids, because you all say they are "too boring", and instead play PvP and Clan Wars.  That is because you clan wars elites are out of touch, because average gamers enjoy a break from sweatfest of PvP, and play raids as easier way to make coins.  But you sniveling Clan Wars Elites are priveledged and would rather make money seal clubbing people with relics on PvP than play raids like average Joe's

   Just like how you clan wars elites lie and say that the relic disparity is not detrimental to balance.  You only care about being on top at any cost, and as a result, you don't care if the game continues to die from people quitting.

   Then again, this is what slimeballs like you want.  You want people to keep quitting the game so you Clan Wars Elites can have Crossout all for yourselves.  You Clan Elites don't want anything fair or balanced, because then you'd lose your advantage.  A quite cowardly doctrine.

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16 hours ago, rpek32 said:

what about remove free daily fuel?

   Of course a Clan Wars Elite would suggest this.

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I heard some people here say hitscan weapons were harder to use on consoles, i wouldnt know.

On pc, with machine guns all raids are easy, easy for an average f2p gamer queueing solo. You can probably get the required build within a week of playing. All your rants about cw elites arent changing this fact.

Im sure im not the first one to tell you ac suck in raids. I saw youre struggling with the defend the truck raid. The trick is to stay in front of the truck, its not your shield, youre supposed to protect it. Quite a few people on pc stay behind the truck and let it tank all of the initial dmg of the waves. You can lose like this but its not hard to just stay in front. When youre in front alone youll die mid raid but you probably tanked around 30% of the trucks durability. Its one of the "hardest" raids out there because it requires basic common sense like this. Doesnt mean its too hard.

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5 minutes ago, dexterrrrrrr said:

I heard some people here say hitscan weapons were harder to use on consoles, i wouldnt know.

On pc, with machine guns all raids are easy, easy for an average f2p gamer queueing solo. You can probably get the required build within a week of playing. All your rants about cw elites arent changing this fact.

Im sure im not the first one to tell you ac suck in raids. I saw youre struggling with the defend the truck raid. The trick is to stay in front of the truck, its not your shield, youre supposed to protect it. Quite a few people on pc stay behind the truck and let it tank all of the initial dmg of the waves. You can lose like this but its not hard to just stay in front. When youre in front alone youll die mid raid but you probably tanked around 30% of the trucks durability. Its one of the "hardest" raids out there because it requires basic common sense like this. Doesnt mean its too hard.

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4 hours ago, dexterrrrrrr said:

I heard some people here say hitscan weapons were harder to use on consoles, i wouldnt know.

On pc, with machine guns all raids are easy, easy for an average f2p gamer queueing solo. You can probably get the required build within a week of playing. All your rants about cw elites arent changing this fact.

Im sure im not the first one to tell you ac suck in raids. I saw youre struggling with the defend the truck raid. The trick is to stay in front of the truck, its not your shield, youre supposed to protect it. Quite a few people on pc stay behind the truck and let it tank all of the initial dmg of the waves. You can lose like this but its not hard to just stay in front. When youre in front alone youll die mid raid but you probably tanked around 30% of the trucks durability. Its one of the "hardest" raids out there because it requires basic common sense like this. Doesnt mean its too hard.

   Yeah, it's pretty hard to stay in front of the truck, when it has like 50 engines, will not stop for you, and you are busy trying to strip the bots that keep getting behind it chipping away at it's rear constantly so you are unable to stay in front of it. 

   It also does not help that the vast majority of randoms refuse to bring effective builds that are good at stripping, so I'm always forced to pull their weight and usually end up the highest scoring player on Raids.

   You Clan Wars Elites can keep making your baseless, newspeak attacks against me to try to undermine my arguments, but I will keep calling out your maliciously, disingenuous shenanigans.

   

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35 minutes ago, CS_2492 said:

   Yeah, it's pretty hard to stay in front of the truck, when it has like 50 engines, will not stop for you, and you are busy trying to strip the bots that keep getting behind it chipping away at it's rear constantly so you are unable to stay in front of it. 

   It also does not help that the vast majority of randoms refuse to bring effective builds that are good at stripping, so I'm always forced to pull their weight and usually end up the highest scoring player on Raids.

   You Clan Wars Elites can keep making your baseless, newspeak attacks against me to try to undermine my arguments, but I will keep calling out your maliciously, disingenuous shenanigans.

   

I will not play the defend the truck raid because random allies hide behind it while I try to stay in front and draw all the agro onto myself and tank all the damage alone. Then the truck explodes behind me and my random allies have full health and all their weapons and never were destroyed and we lose with them at full HP.

I will only do Perimeter Breach because you only defend the package briefly and Steel Cradle where you defend nothing and Data theft because I keep the raiders away from the tower by charging at them when they spawn and War for Fire for the same reason as Data Theft except it is a Truck and not 2 Towers.

The problem is that they are not going to make Raids easier or more rewarding no matter what we post here. Their data says you earn too much already and they do not care if we quit. They should allow us to do Raids solo if we choose and scale only to us.

For anyone to say he is wrong that Raid Scaling ruined Raids is just trolling, They ruined Raids with scaling, but I adapt and overcome, but he is not incorrect. 60 minutes to complete 5 Raids. 60 minutes farming Scrap and I could farm over 500 Scrap for about 15 coins instead of 100 Plastic or the much less profitable Copper.

Peace

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I know what youre talking about, ive lost raids because of all of those same reasons. At those times you can carry, im ashamed to say it, if youre good enough. And ofc have a good build and basically vectors and low ps.

You can stay ahead of the truck at all times, easily with hovers. With those you can also charge past an enemy wave and drag them away from the truck without getting rekt, if you can handle it. I tell you, i think you could also do it, you just have to believe in yourself and try.

Honestly, on pc just ever so slightly above average players are able to stay in front.

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It's trivial to stay ahead of the truck, with a normal wheeled build. The truck is slow, it has lots of wheels and probably it doesn't follow normal rules anyway. It can have as many engines as devs put there but what's the point of saying that, when engines don't increase speed much anything? They drive about 45-50 km/h.

The truck raids aren't good though since they take longer time and because it's clear the weaker players mostly play them. Even if they have decent build they play them bad.

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On 10/11/2019 at 11:16 AM, lucashc90 said:

Unless they are FUN. Just take a look at bedlam: no reward but you will never have an empty map.

People doesn't avoid raids just because they are unrewarding, they avoid them because they are boring, repetitive, expensive AND unrewarding.

That's why so many miss Chase... it was too fast to become a burden.

Bedlam is not "fun" anymore. People used to bring in skinners and lances and climb mountains. Now there isnt a mountain without an invisible wall. The only thing i use bedlam for now is hopping in inbetween my cw turn, porc the hell out of it, get everyone triggered and then leave to do my cw turn. 

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22 hours ago, CS_2492 said:

   Then stop lying maliciously by saying raids are too easy to try to get Targem to make them more unbeatable.   You slimy Clan Wars Elites are all the same.  You have no regard for average gamers.  You think something is easy, then declare it arrogantly a public fact by brigading the forums to try to mislead the devs with your high status and repetition. 

   You are probably also lying deliberately, because Clan Wars Elites don't even play raids, because you all say they are "too boring", and instead play PvP and Clan Wars.  That is because you clan wars elites are out of touch, because average gamers enjoy a break from sweatfest of PvP, and play raids as easier way to make coins.  But you sniveling Clan Wars Elites are priveledged and would rather make money seal clubbing people with relics on PvP than play raids like average Joe's

   Just like how you clan wars elites lie and say that the relic disparity is not detrimental to balance.  You only care about being on top at any cost, and as a result, you don't care if the game continues to die from people quitting.

   Then again, this is what slimeballs like you want.  You want people to keep quitting the game so you Clan Wars Elites can have Crossout all for yourselves.  You Clan Elites don't want anything fair or balanced, because then you'd lose your advantage.  A quite cowardly doctrine.

You will never progress in this game when you farm things that arent worth the cost of fuel. They even made sure you can get EVERY BADGE on free fuel.

If badges were gone  resources would be worth something.

New players could farm resources and sell them . I dont expect you or zhetish to understand  this because you guys dont even try. But there is a point in this game when pmayibg outside of clan wars isnt worth the time and its because of how easy they made this game, and badges. 

We just started another clan this week, and got to 850 points on thursday. 2 sessions.

And even though mist of the first session was for free because we had to pass the rust and tin leagues, it was still more profitable than playing the game at all during the 3 day cooldown. Theres nothing clan war elite about knowing whats worth the time and what isnt. Thats just a life thing.

Edited by Babylonsburning
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17 minutes ago, Babylonsburning said:

Bedlam is not "fun" anymore. People used to bring in skinners and lances and climb mountains. Now there isnt a mountain without an invisible wall. The only thing i use bedlam for now is hopping in inbetween my cw turn, porc the hell out of it, get everyone triggered and then leave to do my cw turn. 

You are confusing your personal opinion with everyone else's you know?

15 minutes ago, Babylonsburning said:

You will never progress in this game when you farm things that arent worth the cost of fuel. They even made sure you can get EVERY BADGE on free fuel.

If badges were gone  resources would be worth something.

New players could farm resources and sell them . I dont expect you or zhetish to understand  this because you guys dont even try. But there is a point in this game when pmayibg outside of clan wars isnt worth the time and its because of how easy they made this game, and badges. 

We just started another clan this week, and got to 850 points on thursday. 2 sessions.

And even though mist of the first session was for free because we had to pass the rust and tin leagues, it was still more profitable than playing the game at all during the 3 day cooldown. Theres nothing clan war elite about knowing whats worth the time and what isnt. Thats just a life thing.

Again, you are only talking from your own POV. Just because you have a good CW build it doesn't mean everyone does and just because you don't think badges are profitable, it doesn't mean they aren't.

TBH, the only thing that is worth farming for when you don't do CW is precisely those badges and the most proffitable thing to trade them for isn't even the resources... its the 3k crate.

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On 10/11/2019 at 9:16 PM, CS_2492 said:

   Of course a Clan Wars Elite would suggest this.

so, im clan wars elite agenda now?

619077691894792193.png?v=1

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On 10/11/2019 at 10:41 PM, dexterrrrrrr said:

I heard some people here say hitscan weapons were harder to use on consoles, i wouldnt know.

On pc, with machine guns all raids are easy, easy for an average f2p gamer queueing solo. You can probably get the required build within a week of playing. All your rants about cw elites arent changing this fact.

Im sure im not the first one to tell you ac suck in raids. I saw youre struggling with the defend the truck raid. The trick is to stay in front of the truck, its not your shield, youre supposed to protect it. Quite a few people on pc stay behind the truck and let it tank all of the initial dmg of the waves. You can lose like this but its not hard to just stay in front. When youre in front alone youll die mid raid but you probably tanked around 30% of the trucks durability. Its one of the "hardest" raids out there because it requires basic common sense like this. Doesnt mean its too hard.

simple truth

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On 10/12/2019 at 1:00 PM, lucashc90 said:

You are confusing your personal opinion with everyone else's you know?

Again, you are only talking from your own POV. Just because you have a good CW build it doesn't mean everyone does and just because you don't think badges are profitable, it doesn't mean they aren't.

TBH, the only thing that is worth farming for when you don't do CW is precisely those badges and the most proffitable thing to trade them for isn't even the resources... its the 3k crate.

What are you even talking about. Badges are worth nothing. And every resources you can exchange a badge for is worth less than scrap for the time spent. 

So a "hard" difficulty raid in this game is less profitable per time spent than running pvp at the beginning of the game.  Do you see the stupidity in it yet? There is absolutely nothing clan war elite about understanding time management. I wouldnt go work ANYWHERE irl for less than 30 dollars an hour  its not worth my time, game modes are no different for me when theyre all the same and not fun.

In regards to bedlam, maybe its my personal opinion,  doesnt make it invalid. Invisible walls amd harvester catering completely ruin bedlam for me and many , many others.

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On 10/12/2019 at 2:17 PM, rpek32 said:

so, im clan wars elite agenda now?

619077691894792193.png?v=1

   Yes

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On 10/13/2019 at 12:39 PM, Babylonsburning said:

What are you even talking about. Badges are worth nothing. And every resources you can exchange a badge for is worth less than scrap for the time spent. 

So a "hard" difficulty raid in this game is less profitable per time spent than running pvp at the beginning of the game.  Do you see the stupidity in it yet? There is absolutely nothing clan war elite about understanding time management. I wouldnt go work ANYWHERE irl for less than 30 dollars an hour  its not worth my time, game modes are no different for me when theyre all the same and not fun.

In regards to bedlam, maybe its my personal opinion,  doesnt make it invalid. Invisible walls amd harvester catering completely ruin bedlam for me and many , many others.

   So what?  Who cares if a clan wars elite thinks raids are not worth the time.  Go back to your dumb meta spam Clan Wars and PvP.  Stop lying and saying raids are too easy.  RAIDS are how us average Joe's make money, because PvP is infested with drones and Relic metas that are hard to counter and win against using non meta weapons, so we have to grind raids to make coins.

   PvP is not worth the time unless you are spamming a drone, or relic meta and winning at least half of the time.  You also wont win unless you are in a clan that all use metas.

Edited by CS_2492
Clan

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On 10/13/2019 at 3:39 PM, Babylonsburning said:

I wouldnt go work ANYWHERE irl for less than 30 dollars an hour  its not worth my time

 

On 10/11/2019 at 2:16 PM, CS_2492 said:

Elite would suggest this

 

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On 10/12/2019 at 5:38 PM, Babylonsburning said:

If badges were gone  resources would be worth something.

New players could farm resources and sell them . I dont expect you or zhetish to understand  this because you guys dont even try. But there is a point in this game when pmayibg outside of clan wars isnt worth the time and its because of how easy they made this game, and badges.

I respectfully disagree. So the game's strap line is 'Craft, Ride, Destroy!'

So a new player starts, is excited by the stuff they can make and starts collecting resources.. Which is the grind we all know and love. And also the 'Craft' part. Some of the resources are gated behind raids, ie plastic and electronics. So there's a motivation to do those raids to grind resources and make epics & legendaries. Eventually, given the drop rate isn't that great. But then there are the badges, which can be converted into resources, making the grind a bit less painful & the raids more worthwhile.

But that's crafting.

Then there's gold. So we need some of that for workbench rentals to do the crafting. Otherwise gold's really only needed to buy stuff on the marketplace, most of which a patient player can make themselves.. eventually. Rest is just basic economics, which follow normal supply & demand rules combined with the usual mudflation. Oversupply and prices fall, shortages and prices rise to levels beyond any new player's reach, eg the state of the PS4 market vs PC. Badges to an extent provide a deflationary mechanism so players could choose to convert badges into resources & gold, or craft items to sell for gold.

Taking out badges, along with reducing the rewards from raids (ie risk/reward/time) just means less incentive to raid, so less raids for new players and fewer badges converted to resources, so basically inflationary. And of course new players may just look at the grind, figure it's not a good time investment and go play something else, so further restricting supply.

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^^He does have point.

 

It's not "Play the market, Ride, Destroy!"

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22 hours ago, Brolo said:

I respectfully disagree. So the game's strap line is 'Craft, Ride, Destroy!'

So a new player starts, is excited by the stuff they can make and starts collecting resources.. Which is the grind we all know and love. And also the 'Craft' part. Some of the resources are gated behind raids, ie plastic and electronics. So there's a motivation to do those raids to grind resources and make epics & legendaries. Eventually, given the drop rate isn't that great. But then there are the badges, which can be converted into resources, making the grind a bit less painful & the raids more worthwhile.

But that's crafting.

Then there's gold. So we need some of that for workbench rentals to do the crafting. Otherwise gold's really only needed to buy stuff on the marketplace, most of which a patient player can make themselves.. eventually. Rest is just basic economics, which follow normal supply & demand rules combined with the usual mudflation. Oversupply and prices fall, shortages and prices rise to levels beyond any new player's reach, eg the state of the PS4 market vs PC. Badges to an extent provide a deflationary mechanism so players could choose to convert badges into resources & gold, or craft items to sell for gold.

Taking out badges, along with reducing the rewards from raids (ie risk/reward/time) just means less incentive to raid, so less raids for new players and fewer badges converted to resources, so basically inflationary. And of course new players may just look at the grind, figure it's not a good time investment and go play something else, so further restricting supply.

Well, you do whatever you want, but im not doing a raid beyond badges, and even then, only plastic, hard copper, electronic and levis are worth the the badge trade in vs  fuel cost.

Spending fuel and getting badges on easy and medium copper costs you coins. Lucky all these new players got raid scaling! While simulatiously ruining the FUN for higher ps. Tell me again how resource value isnt important though.   

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I have an idea:

Step 1: Increase the base difficulty of hard raids to practically require an epic loadout. This is fair because epic hardware can be obtained through PvP and Medium Raids.

Step 2: Lessen the severity of PS scaling.

This way, people will be encouraged to bring somewhat stronger vehicles (stronger than a vector-tower) than before, but won't be punished as hard. Because we've all experienced a time where a 10k+ PS player joins, and suddenly, the defense objective is made out of cardboard.

Devs' current solution to high win rates is a combination of greater enemy turret damage, weaker defense objectives, and more raider durability bloat. Those, in practice, push players to use smaller crafts, so now many players are running around using 7500 PS towers with rare MGs in hard raids, undoing those changes by using the strong PS scaling. The win rates of minimum-PS vehicles is the symptom, not the problem.

 

Edited by DominusPericulum

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