*Zhetesh

Do you think is fair? Packs edition

Read first post before answer plz.  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think is fair? Some pack exclusive items are OP, and others just $hit.

    • Yes
      14
    • No
      13
    • I didn't read the thread, yet I still want to vote
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    • I don't really care
      4


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There are pack exclusive items than are super OP and others than are just $hit...

Some examples:

OP...

Kapkan

Goliaths

Impulse drones

 

$hit...

Cerberus

Icarus (yellow ones)

Gosh cabin...

 

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Well it's not fair no matter what way you look at it, but keep in mind devs do stuff  in order to get profit, not in order to please players (which will earn them a lot more money in the end but that's another matter) 

Still, the most "considered OP" items in the game remain the crafted ones (lances, chameleons, typhoons, harvesters, spark etc) 

 

Of the 3 good things you mentioned, 2 of them are only a big problem if you use big slow fixed weaponry, and the goliaths... Well unless they are using Goblins (craftable, and the most op item in the entire game on the features-energy cost ratio :P) they are pretty manageable

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It's fair. You can not only get the pack items through the market but also buy the pack. If it's not good enough then you don't have to buy the pack.

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4 minutes ago, xCrossFaith said:

Well it's not fair no matter what way you look at it, but keep in mind devs do stuff  in order to get profit, not in order to please players (which will earn them a lot more money in the end but that's another matter) 

at this point everyone know this is a reality ...

My point is ----> if they want make money at lease put good items in the pack, don't just sell $hity items...

Cerberus, Icarus (yellow), ghost desperately need rework...

Kapkan in time is only more and more expensive coz VERY FEW PEOPLE will spend that amount of money (pack price) just for a Kapkan...

Cerberus pack is just a rip off in that pack everything is $hit! 

Yellow Icarus pack is almost same Cerberus coz quantum cabin is craft-able, so it's just another rip off...

4 minutes ago, xCrossFaith said:

Still, the most "considered OP" items in the game remain the crafted ones (lances, chameleons, typhoons, harvesters, spark etc) 

I have to disagree, Kapkan is the most OP followed by impulse drones, why?  Coz very little/nothing skill is needed to kick a$$ with those...

Any way this discussions is about pack exclusive items...

4 minutes ago, xCrossFaith said:

Of the 3 good things you mentioned, 2 of them are only a big problem if you use big slow fixed weaponry, and the goliaths... Well unless they are using Goblins (craftable, and the most op item in the entire game on the features-energy cost ratio :P) they are pretty manageable

Goliath are OP, maybe just in a specific PS range, BUT still...

since this game allow you play in any PS when you enter THAT PS you will face that realty... And you are right, I was talking about the goblins combo...

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I think all weapons should be balanced, pack exclusice or not. Duh.

About the grenadier thing... Fix their targeting through stealth bug first and see how they do. And reduce Impulse's energy cost to 4.

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55 minutes ago, *Zhetesh said:

My point is ----> if they want make money at lease put good items in the pack, don't just sell $hity items...

If they added a map for every pack they throw out..  I think people would take the packs with less rejection.. They are totally different things but still..  Would be a nice detail (and a needed one) 

56 minutes ago, *Zhetesh said:

I have to disagree, Kapkan is the most OP followed by impulse drones, why?  Coz very little/nothing skill is needed to kick a$$ with those...

Any way this discussions is about pack exclusive items...

Same goes for cannons *click* BOOM half your vehicle gone if you don't build specifically for taking cannon shots :P  anyway both kapkans and drones have the same counter: Distance  

But yeah.. Pack exclusive items follow a very weird criteria... If at least the most expensive packs came with the best items it would be "understandable" but nope... One of the most expensive comes with a craftable cabin and another one with 3 Rapiers o.O 

58 minutes ago, *Zhetesh said:

Goliath are OP, maybe just in a specific PS range, BUT still...

since this game allow you play in any PS when you enter THAT PS you will face that realty... And you are right, I was talking about the goblins combo...

Yeah well I normally don't go under 8k PS.. So maybe under that bracket they are a lot worse.. But now I think about it does no one uses wedges at those PS brackets? Goliaths are specially easy to flip with them 

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so yes means the game is fair? or pack items are op??

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For the folks struggling to understand what this guy is trying to say:

Hes buying every pack no matter what but he doesnt enjoy the bitter taste in his face when a pack doesnt contain op new toys. Hed like to make all pack stuff op, retroactively, so that he doesnt feel as stupid buying old packs as he should. When he says ripoff he means that he paid and didnt even get op stuff in return.

 

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18 hours ago, xcai35 said:

so yes means the game is fair? or pack items are op??

:lol:

This is just a casual chat...

Mainly to point (once again) inconsistencies in packs... And also to point some items need a buff...

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21 hours ago, Clebardman said:

About the grenadier thing... Fix their targeting through stealth bug first and see how they do. And reduce Impulse's energy cost to 4.

How? Impossible to do. Once drone shots granade it travels through air and even if you use chameleon it will still hit you and decloak you. He is NOT targeting invisible targets, it decloaks if you use chameleon after he already started shooting at you.

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7 minutes ago, Thanatoss36970 said:

How? Impossible to do. Once drone shots granade it travels through air and even if you use chameleon it will still hit you and decloak you. He is NOT targeting invisible targets, it decloaks if you use chameleon after he already started shooting at you.

Dude... 

Those drones shoot you, taking you out of cloak even if they weren't shooting you before, a lot of post about that. Plz don't derail this thread trying to defend impulse drones, start your own thread for that...

Edited by *Zhetesh

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2 hours ago, *Zhetesh said:

Dude... 

Those drones shoot you, taking you out of cloak even if they weren't shooting you before, a lot of post about that. Plz don't derail this thread trying to defend impulse drones, start your own thread for that...

No they don't.

3 hours ago, *Zhetesh said:

:lol:

This is just a casual chat...

Mainly to point (once again) inconsistencies in packs... And also to point some items need a buff...

Premium shouldn't mean superior.

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17 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

Premium shouldn't mean superior.

Shouldn't agree...

But neither should be inferior...  Coz you know real life money is product kid your hard work...

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10 minutes ago, *Zhetesh said:

Shouldn't agree...

But neither should be inferior...  Coz you know real life money is product kid your hard work...

Except that's bad for balance.

The horseman cabins are balanced because they're situational cabins. The favorite is only balanced currently because of it's low stats after the energy buff.

I have no problem with premium items being good or equal to craftable items but they shouldn't be better than craftables even if it costs real money to buy a pack. For example grenadiers are epic wheeled drones, they are not better than the sidekick however because they're a drone and drones are terrible weapons overall. The Goliath has more health than armored tracks but it's has more downsides as a result. The remedy has more firing angles than the draco but does less damage.

The Torero is not the ideal that pack items should be planned to be like.

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@SIGMA920 i agree, but we should have craftable epick wheeled drone, maybe with minigun? 

@*Zhetesh   

 Nope, they do not shot you if you are invisible BEFORE they targeted you, if drone targets you, you cloak, then you will get decloaked due to granade slow travel time. End.

Besides I hate drone users with passion and consider them inferior animals. Drones are SUPPORT weapon, distraction. Not fcking 4 drone build with 0 brain but 6 goliaths and train plows..... 

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17 minutes ago, Thanatoss36970 said:

@SIGMA920 i agree, but we should have craftable epick wheeled drone, maybe with minigun? 

That'd be a great addition, it'd have to stay deployed for longer than other drones to be an improvement over the sidekick but otherwise it'd be a nice addition.

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Guys, I believe it's M420 who tested it with a friend and posted clips of it. Cloaking after a drone targets you but after he starts shooting makes all drones lose target except grenadiers, they will start shooting at you even if you cloaked before the first shot.

Edited by Clebardman
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1 hour ago, Clebardman said:

Guys, I believe it's M420 who tested it with a friend and posted clips of it. Cloaking after a drone targets you but after he starts shooting makes all drones lose target except grenadiers, they will start shooting at you even if you cloaked before the first shot.

But that's how all bots and drones work, if they've targeted you they don't instantly lose that target because you cloak. It's only as visible as it is because the grenadier fires slow projectiles.

Edited by SIGMA920

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3 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

But that's how all bots and drones work, if they've targeted you they don't instantly lose that target because you cloak. It's only as visible as it is because the grenadier fires slow projectiles.

it was accepted as a bug report so.. how about if you don't understand what you talk about, you shut up?

Fires slowly? unless its in slow motion in the chamber then wtf are you talking about, if it went SLOWER it would MISS ITS TARGET YOU DUMB xxxx

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3 hours ago, Thanatoss36970 said:

@SIGMA920 i agree, but we should have craftable epick wheeled drone, maybe with minigun? 

@*Zhetesh   

 Nope, they do not shot you if you are invisible BEFORE they targeted you, if drone targets you, you cloak, then you will get decloaked due to granade slow travel time. End.

Besides I hate drone users with passion and consider them inferior animals. Drones are SUPPORT weapon, distraction. Not fcking 4 drone build with 0 brain but 6 goliaths and train plows..... 

No more drones, stop lowering the skill gap in this game, stop with the fake rewarding of players, stop with it, it's toxic for gaming, i'm so sick of it, give players a false sense of skill and accomplishment and they eat it up because people ARE DUMB. Fact. 

I'm glad others share the hate for drones and their worthless fake reward system to make the casual trash feel better about their inferiority.

Stop with it, AI shouldn't be in pvp to begin with, it's pathetic, i see why this games demographic is what it is..

This game just rewards what's easy and people eat it up and believe they're good, they exploit and use anything which is easy, they always have but it's just worse..

2029332091_ScreenShot2019-10-18at01_27_0

2017: 966945147_ScreenShot2019-10-18at01_16_09

Devs just lie when it suits them, they know issues when they arise and simply try to benefit from them

This game is a pathetic excuse of a balances competitive game, this community itself is especially pathetic and dumb and so damn easily manipulated

This drone issue is so bad on console and they care so little for us as a platform, literally my first game on today 7 players had AI weapons and drones.. 

yeah no issues when the map is just drones 24/7, theres never a game without mass drone exodus, and if there isn't its just porcs sat on cap, wedges and other cowards base capping while hiding, this game is catering to the unskilled masses to make them feel included and it's disgraceful, i feel that when i return to Siege i may not return to this game again.

 

Edited by Xbox_M_422
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8 minutes ago, Xbox_M_422 said:

it was accepted as a bug report so.. how about if you don't understand what you talk about, you shut up?

And what has been the result? 

16 minutes ago, Xbox_M_422 said:

Fires slowly? unless its in slow motion in the chamber then wtf are you talking about, if it went SLOWER it would MISS ITS TARGET YOU DUMB xxxx

Grenades are a slow projectile. Autocannons fire a projectile with a  projectile speed of 650 for instance, assuming that no changes happened to the impulse it has a projectile speed of 90.

11 minutes ago, Xbox_M_422 said:

No more drones, stop lowering the skill gap in this game, stop with the fake rewarding of players, stop with it, it's toxic for gaming, i'm so sick of it, give players a false sense of skill and accomplishment and they eat it up because people ARE DUMB. Fact. 

I'm glad others share the hate for drones and their worthless fake reward system to make the casual trash feel better about their inferiority.

Stop with it, AI shouldn't be in pvp to begin with, it's pathetic, i see why this games demographic is what it is..

Believe it or not I hate drones too, I do use them occasionally as a support weapon in PvP through because I randomly decide to. A semi-decent epic drone would be an improvement over having to run a sidekick in 5K or 10K through because there's nothing better than it.

They're just not good weapons. If you're going to use a drone boat and you're trying to make it most effective you can you're going to use rare drones because drones as a whole are nearly completely worthless.

23 minutes ago, Xbox_M_422 said:

This game just rewards what's easy and people eat it up and believe they're good, they exploit and use anything which is easy, they always have but it's just worse..

And that's not a game issue, that's a playerbase issue.

24 minutes ago, Xbox_M_422 said:

2029332091_ScreenShot2019-10-18at01_27_0

2017: 1823189183_ScreenShot2019-10-18at01_27_1

Devs just lie when it suits them, they know issues when they arise and simply try to benefit from them

Even when drones were good they were not unstoppable.

Hell this is their current condition:

32 minutes ago, Xbox_M_422 said:

This game is a pathetic excuse of a balances competitive game, this community itself is especially pathetic and dumb and so damn easily manipulated

AI weapons are absolutely worthless on PC. If you're running them you're losing on damage you could be doing.

You are right on the easily manipulated part through. Hell, the new autocannon is not worth getting yet so many players are acting like it's a great weapon because it's now.

32 minutes ago, Xbox_M_422 said:

This drone issue is so bad on console and they care so little for us as a platform, literally my first game on today 7 players had AI weapons and drones.. 

And I see mostly cannons and shotguns.

34 minutes ago, Xbox_M_422 said:

yeah no issues when the map is just drones 24/7, theres never a game without mass drone exodus, and if there isn't its just porcs sat on cap, wedges and other cowards base capping while hiding, this game is catering to the unskilled masses to make them feel included and it's disgraceful, i feel that when i return to Siege i may not return to this game again.

That sounds less and less like a game issue and more like an entirely different playerbase issue from the previous one.

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Nothing behind a paid transaction it's fair against something you can get for free. -> Free to play games.

Other games put cosmetics behind premium currency, so you don't see the actual price (you still can to calculate it, duh... but you never see the pricetag in $/€) and you just look better in the game.

Here devs do the opposite (marketing, anyone? Nobody?) and put a full 4.99€ in front of a skin. Obviously they put the best weaponry behind paywall. The useless things mentioned, behind a paywall, are utterly confusing, from the point of view of someone who knows basic economics.

But that's how they do business, no hard feelings for that.

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On 10/16/2019 at 11:57 AM, *Zhetesh said:

There are pack exclusive items than are super OP and others than are just $hit...

Some examples:

OP...

Kapkan

Goliaths

Impulse drones

 

$hit...

Cerberus

Icarus (yellow ones)

Gosh cabin...

 

Your argument here is very obtuse and trite. 

I think you have a good point to be made, but you are being so lazy at making it that it will never be effective.

Your six examples are bad.

Goliath and Icarus IV are movement parts that behave in totally different ways. Each can be debated on their strengths and weaknesses.
Cerberus and Ghost are both cabins that came with other stuff, that balanced their respective packs in different ways.
Grenadier drones and Kapkan minelayers are your only examples that you use for pack weapons, at all.

The reason I am criticizing your laziness is because you didn't even bother to realize that Ghost came with Kapkan in it's pack. Ghost needs a rework, but the pack comes with one of your "OP" items included - thus voiding 2 of the the six items you were willing to spend keystrokes mentioning.

Cerberus is arguably good for some, as it gives you a 12 energy cab with a free melee weapon attached - granted it is not the greatest of melee weapons, but it could be argued it is a 13/14 energy light cabin due to this. Sure, you might suck using/building with it, but it doesn't mean the cabin is bad.

As for comparing movement parts that come with the pack - they all have varying strengths and weaknesses and aren't the "core" part of any given pack, Thus, using movement parts as a direct comparison of "OP-ness" is somewhat daft.

Now that I have destroyed you for your utter laziness, let me help you with making your point...

The first thing you should've pointed to was the disparity between packs of the same price-point. Look at the offerings included in the "Pandemic" pack - now let's compare this to any of the Horseman packs at that same retail. Pandemic pack gets you a rare cabin with a single epic weapon - it's strength is only in the unique parts and horn. While the cabin and parts may be nice for a certain aesthetic, it has no place in comparison to the offerings of the "HOTA:Pestilence" pack - where you get two uncraftable epic weapons and an Epic cabin with a weapon perk that is relevant to it's included armament.

That is a pretty crappy oversight by the devs regarding pack balance.

It is a similar issue between "Arsonist" and "Arachnophobia" packs. Arsonist costs more, but comes with one weapon less - and the included weapons are not ideal for the build platform included. Even though it comes with slightly less included coins, Arachnophobia comes with one the best cabins in the game, as well as movement parts that pair best with it.

Looking at the latest pack releases from the last several months, it is obvious the pack strategy is no longer about balancing value anymore. It is purely to drive enough immediate interest upon release to generate massive impulse sales. Likely, this is because the strategy works. But, as more players buy more packs, each release must have an even bigger hook in order to keep driving additional purchases by the same players.

@*Zhetesh Now please I am asking that you would give more effort to quality over quantity in your topics. You spam a lot without saying much, even if you might have a good point.

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3 hours ago, Hinskaal said:

Here devs do the opposite (marketing, anyone? Nobody?) and put a full 4.99€ in front of a skin. Obviously they put the best weaponry behind paywall. The useless things mentioned, behind a paywall, are utterly confusing, from the point of view of someone who knows basic economics.

Because premium /= best.

12 hours ago, Xbox_M_422 said:

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8106fba4-b287-498c-9f8c-9a17bbe7bb38.thu\

59211284_ScreenShot2019-10-18at02_40_25.

On PC that's effectively 2 free kills in front of you. Should be on console as well.

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