psiberzerker

"Fair Play" in the post-apocalyptic wasteland...

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Is a myth.  Granted, I've never seen a global Survival situation, but you have to realize that's what we're playing here.  Survivors?

Fair play isn't going to happen.  Watch The Road Warrior, or the party scene from "Weird Science."  That doesn't seem fair, riding through the living room, up an down stairs with chain smileys, and crowbars, BECAUSE THEY'RE ANARCHISTS!

Master/Blaster didn't fight fair in Thunderdrome, he enslaved a mentally disabled giant, because he was a dwarf, but he survived.  Thunderdrome.  (Not the movie, but he was there for years before Mad Max showed up.)

Anarchists, and survivors do everything they can, for Anarchy, and Survival.  We're Lunatics!  If Bulldog, the Lunatic, had an Estus flask, you think he wouldn't to use it?  (Sorry, wrong post-apocalyptic nightmare game.)  If his life depended on it?

"That's not fair!"  ~An honorbro.  If you want to play for honor, play For Honor.  This is Crossout, and the strong survive.

They don't fight fair.

Edited by psiberzerker
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51 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Is a myth.  Granted, I've never seen a global Survival situation, but you have to realize that's what we're playing here.  Survivors?

Fair play isn't going to happen.  Watch The Road Warrior, or the party scene from "Weird Science."  That doesn't seem fair, riding through the living room, up an down stairs with chain smileys, and crowbars, BECAUSE THEY'RE ANARCHISTS!

Master/Blaster didn't fight fair in Thunderdrome, he enslaved a mentally disabled giant, because he was a dwarf, but he survived.  Thunderdrome.  (Not the movie, but he was there for years before Mad Max showed up.)

Anarchists, and survivors do everything they can, for Anarchy, and Survival.  We're Lunatics!  If Bulldog, the Lunatic, had an Estus flask, you think he wouldn't to use it?  (Sorry, wrong post-apocalyptic nightmare game.)  If his life depended on it?

"That's not fair!"  ~An honorbro.  If you want to play for honor, play For Honor.  This is Crossout, and the strong survive.

They don't fight fair.

Because in reality it'd be anarchy doesn't excuse players preferring cheese and exploits over actually getting better at playing the game.

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1 hour ago, psiberzerker said:

"That's not fair!"  ~An honorbro.

- a few months later X item is nerfed for balance issues...

honorer continues there non meta chasing, non cheese wedging gameplay while others cry over their nerfed items.. knowing full well it was an unimaginative meta chase with less required skill.. ah, Crossout..

 

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1 hour ago, SIGMA920 said:

Because in reality it'd be anarchy doesn't excuse players preferring cheese and exploits over actually getting better at playing the game.

its hard to exploit physics in reality

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Okay, I'm not saying "No Balance."  I'm saying fairness or fighting fair isn't in the Survivor mindset.

Balance is the Dev's responsibility.  Fair play really shouldn't be expected.  It's just not that kinda game.

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1 hour ago, rpek32 said:

its hard to exploit physics in reality

Yes, but as an Industrial Engineer, we've been doing it since we discovered Fire, and started wearing other animal's skins.  Now, we have the internet, so you can argue that exploiting physics is "Hard."

So's rocket science.  I think we've established that it's not impossible.

 

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I'm quit sure we all prefer our fantasy softer than our reality, and when you are paying a cash premium for stock in that fantasy, I think most of us believe that courtesy towards the shareholder is an obligation not a virtue. That is to say that I think it's reasonable to expect a fair game from the developers. However, expecting the community not to try and cheat is certainly naive, I think. Player's gonna play.

Edited by DocSavage

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11 minutes ago, DocSavage said:

Well, in "reality" a large part of our success and survival as a species is underpinned by actual murder. Lots of it. I'm sure we would like to draw the line at a more comfortable distance when it comes to our entertainment, but we don't have to. I'm quit sure we all prefer our fantasy softer than our reality, and when you are paying a cash premium for stock in that fantasy, I think most of us believe that courtesy towards the shareholder is an obligation not a virtue.
 

I agree, but Craft, Ride, Destroy.  You don't actually get to see the driver in that there Growl, but if you look through the windshield, you can see the seat.

I'm pretty sure that's Murder.  If you want, call it Vehicular Homicide, but none of us came here to kill 'bots.  It's a 3rd person shooter.  I'm not talking about the Creater/player relationship, I'm talking about "Fair Play" between the players.  I don't expect fair play between the players, I expect them to use everything at their disposal to try to "Murder" me.  (Virtually, of course.)

Edited by psiberzerker

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32 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Okay, I'm not saying "No Balance."  I'm saying fairness or fighting fair isn't in the Survivor mindset.

Balance is the Dev's responsibility.  Fair play really shouldn't be expected.  It's just not that kinda game.

And cheese/exploits take something that's balanced and make it unstoppable. Take hovers, they're weak now if you don't use a sideways hover or hoverboat with radar armor but since most anyone who uses hovers often will use one of those two they're OPed suddenly even if that's the only way in which they're viable to use.

34 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Yes, but as an Industrial Engineer, we've been doing it since we discovered Fire, and started wearing other animal's skins.  Now, we have the internet, so you can argue that exploiting physics is "Hard."

So's rocket science.  I think we've established that it's not impossible.

 

Lift up a object with enough weight that you can feel it and hold it up in the air for a minute. Not imagine that weight is gone because the physics don't consider your weight unless you're touching enough of the ground. That's a broken part of the physics that's exploited.

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9 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

(Virtually, of course.)

Why draw the line there if morality isn't an issue?..I edited my original post for I second guessed my willingness to enter that debate. I still don't want to, but you captured my post. Drat. I will agree that expecting the kids to play fair isn't reasonable here...and then I will flee this terrible thread.

Edited by DocSavage

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I didn't say "Morality," either.  They're not real.  We're not really killing anything.  This is more of a Role Play mindset than a Code of Conduct.  I want to play a Lunatic.  I guess, maybe the Dawn's Children have some sort of Noble Code.  It wouldn;t surprise me if the Knecte have some sort of twisted sense of Chivalry, but the Lunatics?  The Fire-starters.

I don't expect anything resembling mercy from the Steppenwolves, and we've barely gotten glimpses of the Ravagers, but their vehicles look like something out of a Tool video.  (I'm not going as far as Giger, but I think that's the general idea.)

That guy's got chainsaws, all over his bumper, and I'm not sure I want to know what he wants to do with that gas-can.  I don't think he's really interested in a fair fight.

Edited by psiberzerker

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1 hour ago, psiberzerker said:

we've been doing it since we discovered Fire

so before discovering fire didnt exist? or what?

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What?  Syntax eror.  I can't answer that question.  It needs another verb or something.  At least.

I seriously doubt we exploited physics, to a dangerous degree, without Fire.  Before that we were JUST animals.  Now, we're a mass extinction threat.

Humanity is OP.  We suspect that it started with a Spark (Though it might have been Friction instead.)

Edited by psiberzerker

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1 hour ago, psiberzerker said:

I didn't say "Morality," either.  They're not real.  We're not really killing anything.  This is more of a Role Play mindset than a Code of Conduct.  I want to play a Lunatic.  I guess, maybe the Dawn's Children have some sort of Noble Code.  It wouldn;t surprise me if the Knecte have some sort of twisted sense of Chivalry, but the Lunatics?  The Fire-starters.

I don't expect anything resembling mercy from the Steppenwolves, and we've barely gotten glimpses of the Ravagers, but their vehicles look like something out of a Tool video.  (I'm not going as far as Giger, but I think that's the general idea.)

That guy's got chainsaws, all over his bumper, and I'm not sure I want to know what he wants to do with that gas-can.  I don't think he's really interested in a fair fight.

And hey, that's great. I'm not going to start using cheese or exploit builds through because of that. That's being an as$hole and what's killing the game.

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6 hours ago, psiberzerker said:

Okay, I'm not saying "No Balance."  I'm saying fairness or fighting fair isn't in the Survivor mindset.

Balance is the Dev's responsibility.  Fair play really shouldn't be expected.  It's just not that kinda game.

So you'd be fine with widespread use of hacks then?.. That's not fighting fair either.. 

Not wanting a fair fight is a huge show of weakness 

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3 hours ago, Xbox_M_420 said:

So you'd be fine with widespread use of hacks then?.. That's not fighting fair either.. 

Not wanting a fair fight is a huge show of weakness 

Hacking is outside the game.  No, I don't particularly like the idea of being taken out of the game, by someone else playing a different game.

How the hell is that a "Sign of weakness?"  If you want to call me a wimp, just call me a wimp. 

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On 11/24/2019 at 1:21 PM, psiberzerker said:

Hacking is outside the game.  No, I don't particularly like the idea of being taken out of the game, by someone else playing a different game.

How the hell is that a "Sign of weakness?"  If you want to call me a wimp, just call me a wimp. 

I don't think that was a dig at you, it was more just staying that a player stacking the deck in their favour by exploiting (possibly broken) mechanics or using hacks because they don't have confidence in their ability to win in a fair fight, says something about the players attitude toward the game. 

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