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Something needs to be done, but if you ask me, I'd just change them to Reload (Instead of cooldown) weapons.  Like the Junkbow, only fixed, with the Shoot Through perk, and the Hatchets perk.  (They do ramming damage like Hatchets.)

Either that, or make them 3 Charge, like any other Shotgun.  Yeah, they have a narrow firing arc, but they have 2 Perks?  I can't think of any other Rare part with 2 Perks, but then again, we don't have any Rare reload shotguns.  (Unless they come out with a 12 gauge revolver for the next Knight Rider's event.)  I can't think of any Legendary part with 2 Perks, let alone for 2 charge, so you can layer them with armor around you cab, and use them to shoot stuff?

I use the damned things as Structure parts, they're that cheap.  I have 3 Gun mounts, 4 half Buggy Floors...  And 5 Goblins.  (Growl, Chill, Bulldog...)  Just slap some Minivan doors on those bad boys, and you're good to go, you don;t even need Blade Wings, because they do that too!  

For 2 Charge.  You get 2 perks, for 2 Charge, that's why they're "OP."  Because you can have up to 8 of them.

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I vote to raise their power score, to equal the PS of a 3 energy weapon, because they have this third perk in the weapon's description: "Reduced energy requirement"

That implies the weapon's natural energy cost would be 3. But when power scores were adjusted, its PS got mistaken as for a 2-energy weapon.

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I think the problem is the same like with lances - you can mount a lot (ye ye, lance a lot :D ).

I would be in for the 3 energy.

Face to face you loose because (f.e.) you got 3 or 4 MGs and are looking into 6 or 8 shotguns

and those shotguns are sucking your bullets partially.

 

The dmg sucking perk alone is mean af (for a blue one).

 

But i could live with it if the dmg eating perk gets removed.

or increasing PS to a 3ish energy shotgun, as @Comrade_Tiki said.

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Never have any problems with them. 

They are only that good, sandwiched between Goliath tracks. 

Try to attack Goliath builds from behind. Done. 

But what ever... Game is not sheit enuff, so let's nerf nerf nerf

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1 hour ago, Dumpbump said:

But what ever... Game is not sheit enuff, so let's nerf nerf nerf

hm, true. I actually am also against nerv n sheit.

So i change my mind to let them as they are.

Perhaps the PS increase if they are to "OP" in lower PS matches, which i dont play so idk ...

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1 hour ago, Dumpbump said:

Never have any problems with them. 

They are only that good, sandwiched between Goliath tracks. 

Try to attack Goliath builds from behind. Done. 

But what ever... Game is not sheit enuff, so let's nerf nerf nerf

If they are sandwiches, just stay on the blind spot. If they are wheeled vehicles (usually all steering bigfoots), focus on the cabin because they are usually lightweight builds that can't take a beating. If they are using meat grinders, just focus on on auger until it fall off.

Generally speaking, you can either keep a distance or engage Goblin builds and there isn't a "middle ground" with them. Fleeing is not a good idea because of their reach, besides, they are usually front mounted so you are just making yourself an easier target when they pursue you and staying in middle range just gives them time to turn and aim at you.

If you DO have to flee (Goblin guy has friends) you have to use the map at your advantage: climbing hills and doing sharp turns around corners breaks the Goblin line of sight.

 

People usually complain of things that they die to and asking for a nerf is a reaction of fear against a threat you do not know fully yet.

Observe, learn, adapt. :014:

Edited by lucashc90
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2 hours ago, _cottton_ said:

I think the problem is the same like with lances - you can mount a lot (ye ye, lance a lot :D ).

Good One!

Goliath Sandwich is more of a Goliath problem than a Goblin problem, in combat.  Game balance aside, I basically treat them as Gollys with Goblins, rather than Goblin builds with Goliaths, because that defense is what makes them tricky (Ish)  It's pretty much the same as Wasp Goliaths, or basically any other Goliath with Blue weapons.

Lucashc90 (Or his twin) pretty well covered it, they don't turn very well.  We all know the parts, their strengths, and their weaknesses.  Avoid their Strengths (Close range) and attack their weak points.  Bastion+Goliaths has been a more common problem (To deal with) lately.  

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It's hard to deny that they overperform a bit compared to other rare weapons when you look at the available data. This said, they generally perfom worse than Judges and Wasps according to crossout data... and I must confess that I have no problem with gobs, unlike my teammates who seem to think ramming them from the front is a valid strategy.

I'd say Goliaths are much more of a problem, and they're the main movement part used by Gobs, unlike Wasps and Judges wich are also heavily used on hovers. I'm pretty sure a Goliath PS increase would be enough to make Goblin's performance more average.

Edited by Clebardman
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3 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

It's hard to deny that they overperform a bit compared to other rare weapons when you look at the available data. This said, they generally perfom worse than Judges and Wasps according to crossout data... and I must confess that I have no problem with gobs, unlike my teammates who seem to think ramming them from the front is a valid strategy.

LOL!  "Not a great plan."  I guess we can hope that some of them are capable of learning from their mistakes.

I agree that Wasps, and Judges are up there, when it comes to Rares (And the PS range that's mostly Rares.)  Neither of those really have a perk, though.  I could argue that the fast Reload on Judges is a hidden perk (And I abuse them for it) but they don't have 2 unique perks, you can't get anywhere else.

Edited by psiberzerker

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5 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

I'm pretty sure a Goliath PS increase would be enough to make Goblin's performance more average.

The problem is that Goliaths underperform in higher PS ranges, which means that rising its PS will essentially kill it... there is really not much that can be done to them because increasing weight will also push them out of higher PS matches because everyone is thicc there too.

Edited by lucashc90

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4 minutes ago, lucashc90 said:

The problem is that Goliaths underperform in higher PS ranges, which means that rising its PS will essentially kill it... there is really not much that can be done to them because increasing weight will also push them out of higher PS matches because everyone is thicc there too.

Except as "Frontal" armor on sideways hovers.  I don't really see a problem with Goliaths that need fixed.  They're okay, tough, slow, tank tracks.  If you want tough slow tank tracks, they're better than Armored Tracks.

There's things that need fixed, a lot more than that.  I seriously doubt that anyone buys Goliaths, and is at all surprised by what they get.  I'd kinda like the glitchiness shaken out of Small Tracks at some point.

Edited by psiberzerker

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6 minutes ago, lucashc90 said:

The problem is that Goliaths underperform in higher PS ranges, which means that rising its PS will essentially kill it...

That's probably the first time I don't mention that tracks need a buff alongside that, so here you go: Tracks need a MOBILITY buff and goliath (and potentially armored tracks to a lesser extent) need a PS increase.

I'd be all for
Tracks turning speed increased by 20%
Tracks now add 50% of their weight as mass limit (meaning if you want to be the biggest dude in town, tracks are the go to part)
Golden Eagle is no longer a xxxx engine (I'll spare you numbers, you get the idea)
Armored track PS increased to 450, power drain reduced from 50 to 45%
Goliath PS increased to 900, power drain reduced from 70 to 60%

3200 durability + resists + almost unbreakable movement parts + complete side armor to hide the cab for only 900 PS is just dumb and OP. Tracks are **** when PS doesn't matter anymore, but the PS cost of Goliath is stupidly low. There's also a reason why you see soooo many uncraftable Goliaths and so little craftable tracks. Because they're all terribad compared to Goliath.

Edited by Clebardman

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11 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

I'd be all for:
Tracks turning speed increased by 20%

I can agree with turning speed changes.  I don't think that 20% is the magic number for all tracks, but "There's a reason..."

There's probably several reasons.  I exclusively use Small Tracks (And I sold my Golden Eagle) because they're just about perfect for my playstyle, for all the reasons:  They're not as easy to shoot off, I can bury them in Armor, I can tuck them under my cab, they look neat, they're fast enough...

So, I don't have to worry about retraining my muscle memory when I switch to Bigfoots.  Or Hovers, or whatever.  I can switch Weapons, and concentrate on the enemy, and killing them, because the tracks under me are behaving the way I want them to.  (When they don't glitch out, and send me into a breakdancing routine without any visible cause.)  

Goliaths are fine.  It would be great if they could be craftable, bla bla ba, but Goblins are broken.  I don't think that anyone can argue that buff/nerfing Goliaths is a higher priority than making Goblins less OP.

Edited by psiberzerker

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3 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Goliaths are fine.  It would be great if they could be craftable, bla bla ba, but Goblins are broken.

It's the other way around, and your suggestion to put them at 3 energy would be an absolutely monstruous nerf that would outright kill Goblins and send them in the trash bin below Emily. That's basically nerfing them by 33% across the board. It's not even the top performing rare weapon rn.

I want to see more build diversity, not less.

Edited by Clebardman
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unfortunately as a general rule fixed shotguns out perform turreted shotguns by quite a lot. lower energy, more health and easier to hide etc. 

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1 minute ago, Clebardman said:

It's the other way around, and your suggestion to put them at 3 energy would be an absolutely monstruous nerf that would outright kill Goblins and send them in the trash bin below Emily. That's basically nerfing them by 33% across the board. It's not even the top performing rare weapon rn.

I want to see more build diversity, not less.

I agree, but that wasn't the only option I offered to discuss.  You don't like that one, what about changing them to a Reload shotgun (Like the Junkbow) instead of a Cooldown one, that can be buffed with Seals?  Honestly, that's the one I would prefer.

Discuss...

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I can get behind:

2 hours ago, Clebardman said:

Tracks turning speed increased by 20%

Goliath PS increased to 900

What I think its a huge buff to any tracks and can break them:

2 hours ago, Clebardman said:

Tracks now add 50% of their weight as mass limit (meaning if you want to be the biggest dude in town, tracks are the go to part)

Golden Eagle is no longer a xxxx engine (I'll spare you numbers, you get the idea)

Armored track PS increased to 450, power drain reduced from 50 to 45%

power drain reduced from 70 to 60%

Why? Because if you do like me and use a Bastion-Goliath-GoldenEgle-Goblin alongside the Steppenwolfs Co-Driver, you already have a brick with a shitton of armor moving at 60km/h, even with the PS increase (and I purposely made that build's PS sits at mid 6k PS with the addtion of some decor and modules it doesn't even need) I would still be a mid 6k brick that can run over everything in front of me, but now I can have a lot more armor and be a lot faster. Now scale that thought to higher PS matches: I have a 4638 HP build at 13k PS, I could simply change my 4 augers to 4 tracks and up that HP to 5k or even more, again, breaking how tracks work.

Do tracks need a buff? Hell yeah! Do they need to be the next best thing in the entire game? Absolutely not!

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I only think goblins might need a slight damage nerf.

You get the most bang for your buck with coolers as well with them.

One cooler working for 4-6 guns instead of 2-3.

I don't really have a problem with goblin builds most of them are so slow they can't catch me.

But just briefly passing in front of them is enough to lose half your ride though if they are good on the trigger.

I think goblins are better than the other blue shotguns for sure.

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Just now, Merkyaleez said:

I think goblins are better than the other blue shotguns for sure.

Shotguns are the most powerful weapon type in this game. I had this team mate using only spitfires in CW and it was brutal.

Edited by lucashc90
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3 hours ago, lucashc90 said:

I can get behind:

What I think its a huge buff to any tracks and can break them:

Why? Because if you do like me and use a Bastion-Goliath-GoldenEgle-Goblin alongside the Steppenwolfs Co-Driver, you already have a brick with a shitton of armor moving at 60km/h, even with the PS increase (and I purposely made that build's PS sits at mid 6k PS with the addtion of some decor and modules it doesn't even need) I would still be a mid 6k brick that can run over everything in front of me, but now I can have a lot more armor and be a lot faster. Now scale that thought to higher PS matches: I have a 4638 HP build at 13k PS, I could simply change my 4 augers to 4 tracks and up that HP to 5k or even more, again, breaking how tracks work.

Do tracks need a buff? Hell yeah! Do they need to be the next best thing in the entire game? Absolutely not!

Because 20% turning speed and 1 tons of crappy structural pieces will suddenly turn the worst movement part in the game in some OP stuff? I think we have some margin considering you keep claiming everywhere that OP are totally balanced.

Obviously the PS change isn't intended for your 6k PS build but to prevent people from bringing Goliath at 2-3k, where +900 PS makes a difference, duh. I don't see how a mid 6k PS build can stay mid 6k PS if I slap +900PS on it either, but ok.

Edited by Clebardman

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8 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

Because 20% turning speed and 1 tons of crappy structural pieces will suddenly turn the worst movement part in the game in some OP stuff?

What exactly do you believe the "Worst movement part in the game" is?  Anything can be buffed to the point that they're OP, but if they're really that bad (Compared with the Starter Wheel) that would just take a lot of buffs.

Tracks can turn in place, albeit slowly.  They can;t straffe sideways, but that hardly makes them the worst parts.

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3 hours ago, lucashc90 said:

if you do like me and use a Bastion-Goliath-GoldenEgle-Goblin alongside the Steppenwolfs Co-Driver...

What does Hans really add to that build, more side armor?

Armor doesn't win fights, guns do.  At best, it takes longer to lose.  Oh, I see.  With the Bastion, you get a whopping 15 KPH boost to your top speed.  Now you can get up to 60, Wheeee!

Try Bulldog in a Growl.  Goblins are Absurd with bulldog, and you get an extra 500 weight allowance with the Growl.  If you need more than 6 Goblins, with Bulldog, you're probably already dead.

(Paraphrasing Elmer Kieth there.)

Edited by psiberzerker

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@psiberzerker I'm talking about tracks. All of them. At least augers can vaguely strafe and deal damage to wedges. Tracks can't even do that. They scale terribly into late game because having more than a pair reduces you to a crawl and destroys your turning speed. The endgame uses of tracks and augers: anti-dog tool and armor panels for spiders.


This is obviously specific to endgame as Goliaths perform really well at low PS since they're ridiculously PS efficient.

Edited by Clebardman

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13 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

@psiberzerker I'm talking about tracks. All of them. At least augers can vaguely strafe and deal damage to wedges.

I admit that Augers are better than most Tracks.  Small tracks don't lower you to a Crawl, though.  Also, there's much worse wheels, though none of them are Purple.  

No other Movement Part can do this:

BCEA6ECF2383F9C461057AFC3B0D0DE2A9D56857

Edited by psiberzerker

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