Comrade_Tiki

Map veto in Missions

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Suggestion:

Provide a method to permit each player to "Veto" 1 map from Missions queue.
When a pool of players is chosen to battle, the map selection will not choose any map that a player has vetoed.

Rationale:

  • Some builds perform very poorly on certain maps (example: Mandrakes do poorly in Sector EX)
  • Some players hate re-playing specific maps (controversial maps include: Old Town, Desert Valley, Bridge (source))

Crossout currently has 16 maps in Missions:

  1. Bridge
  2. Broken arrow
  3. Chemical plant
  4. "Control-17" station
  5. Crater
  6. Desert valley
  7. Factory
  8. Fortress
  9. Founders Canyon
  10. Nameless tower
  11. Old Town
  12. Powerplant
  13. Rock City
  14. Sandy gulf
  15. Sector EX
  16. Ship graveyard

By adding Naukograd, Crossout will have 17 Mission maps. This number is crucial, because it means a match containing 16 players (8v8) can allow all 16 players to Veto separate maps, and still ensure the matchmaker will have 1 valid map agreeable to all players.

This will provide players with a small amount of input regarding map choice, which is an improvement from the purely random map-selection system currently in use. It is optional for players to exercise their "Map veto", so the existing gameplay experience is not slowed or complicated. Additional statistics from "Map veto" may be collected, for observing which maps players avoid the most & which maps players avoid the least (useful for deciding the design of future maps, or useful for deciding which existing maps may benefit from re-design).

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I have to say, hard no. Yeah, it sucks when you get a bad map for your build but that's life. If you're using a mandrake and end up in Sector EX then you've got to do the best you can with what you have.

Plus even with 17 maps, there's no guarantee that maps that work for your build won't get vetoed and you'll be stuck in one that it's not suited for.

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On 12/4/2019 at 11:16 AM, Comrade_Tiki said:

Additional statistics from "Map veto" may be collected, for observing which maps players avoid the most & which maps players avoid the least (useful for deciding the design of future maps, or useful for deciding which existing maps may benefit from re-design).

This may be victim to meta preferences, so not really usefull for quality measuring.

 

Veto seems a bit strong, but some kind of limited voting would be nice. Also, to be able to choose build in battle countdown in missions would be nice, like in arcade mode in War Thunder. Some of the controversial maps might be somewhat less controversial then.

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Downvote.  I farm Missions, and I don't want to consult with the committe for 20 seconds.  I want to get on with the fight.  This will only slow down your Rep, and Resource gain.  

Also, IDFC what the map is.  I guess because I play Medium Range, it overlaps with Long, and Close Range.  (It's not the best in either extreme, but at least I'm not Helpless until I start getting parts blown off.)  

Even if it's a map I don't like, it's a learning experience.  If players had the option, they'd re-roll until they only played their favorite, or never play that one map they hate.

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2 hours ago, psiberzerker said:

I farm Missions, and I don't want to consult with the committe for 20 seconds.  I want to get on with the fight.

There is no committee or delay with this, because a preference to veto would be selected prior to entering queue.
(The matchmaker would probably spend 0.2 milliseconds to select a map which none of the matched players have veto'd)

3 hours ago, psiberzerker said:

Also, IDFC what the map is.  I guess because I play Medium Range, it overlaps with Long, and Close Range.

In your case, no veto preference is needed. It seems cruel to make certain weapon types suffer randomly as a result.

The developers removed differing traction levels of rare wheels (like Lunar wheels performing better on sand & worse on roads), for the reason that players cannot pick which map they enter. Weapon type can be a far greater disadvantage than traction, and making all weapons perform identically is out of the question.

On 12/4/2019 at 6:30 PM, SIGMA920 said:

Yeah, it sucks when you get a bad map for your build but that's life. If you're using a mandrake and end up in Sector EX then you've got to do the best you can with what you have.

I sometimes witness players outright leave at the beginning of battles. I suspect many these incidents occur on that player's least favorite map. Whenever a player must "do the best you can with what you have" for an entire match as a result of bad luck, it's tempting to leave and re-queue for a battle which will actually be fun.

Sector EX is unique and fun for many builds, but landing in Sector EX with Mandrakes feels like starting a battle missing half your wheels. Similar feelings may occur in...

  • Bridge, when you wish you could flank the enemy
  • Desert Valley, when you wish you could drive on flat ground
  • Fortress or Nameless Tower, when your gun depression means you can't hit enemies over hills
  • Rock City, when your team has a 50% chance of splitting up and getting ruined
  • Sandy Gulf, when you wish you could find some cover

etc.

 

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15 hours ago, Comrade_Tiki said:

I sometimes witness players outright leave at the beginning of battles. I suspect many these incidents occur on that player's least favorite map. Whenever a player must "do the best you can with what you have" for an entire match as a result of bad luck, it's tempting to leave and re-queue for a battle which will actually be fun.

Sector EX is unique and fun for many builds, but landing in Sector EX with Mandrakes feels like starting a battle missing half your wheels. Similar feelings may occur in...

  • Bridge, when you wish you could flank the enemy
  • Desert Valley, when you wish you could drive on flat ground
  • Fortress or Nameless Tower, when your gun depression means you can't hit enemies over hills
  • Rock City, when your team has a 50% chance of splitting up and getting ruined
  • Sandy Gulf, when you wish you could find some cover

etc.

And those players are cowards. As I said, you do your best.

The problem of if you get stuck playing maps that don't suit your build because of other player's vetos isn't solved either.

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On 12/6/2019 at 5:31 PM, SIGMA920 said:

And those players are cowards. As I said, you do your best.

It's a game, intended to be fun. But it's not fun to play a map where 50% of locations can neither be shot at nor shot from. The only Sector EX Mandrakes I feel threatened by are the ones I find at their start-point, and even then it's usually a turkey-shoot.

By requesting that all player builds be forced to play their worst possible or least-preferred maps, you are seeking to encounter defenseless targets... I'd rather have a fair fight whenever possible.

On 12/6/2019 at 5:31 PM, SIGMA920 said:

The problem of if you get stuck playing maps that don't suit your build because of other player's vetos isn't solved either.

Whatever map will be played, it won't be the 1 map you chose to veto. It won't always be your best-case scenario, but it should be playable enough, at least, to do your best.

If you get tired of a map because it feels overplayed, you may change your veto to prevent re-playing it. The Map Veto system may even give players the option to veto their most recent match, ensuring that no player be forced to play the same map multiple times in a row.

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10 minutes ago, Comrade_Tiki said:

It's a game, intended to be fun. But it's not fun to play a map where 50% of locations can neither be shot at nor shot from. The only Sector EX Mandrakes I feel threatened by are the ones I find at their start-point, and even then it's usually a turkey-shoot.

By requesting that all player builds be forced to play their worst possible or least-preferred maps, you are seeking to encounter defenseless targets... I'd rather have a fair fight whenever possible.

No, I want to prevent players from being able to avoid their weaknesses. A mandrake is next to useless on Sector Ex but that doesn't mean that they should be able to avoid that map entirely because they're weak in it.

That's the same reason I don't want the game to let you to not match with those using specific gear, it'd let players avoid what counters them.

12 minutes ago, Comrade_Tiki said:

Whatever map will be played, it won't be the 1 map you chose to veto. It won't always be your best-case scenario, but it should be playable enough, at least, to do your best.

Mandrakes are weak on more than a few maps because of the terrain alone, I only get one veto. Even if the worst map for a mandrake build is removed from selection and then I might get stuck in the second worst one and whatever maps haven't been vetoed.

That doesn't make the problem go away and there is still no guarantee that a player won't be screwed over by the other layer's vetoes.

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Man i'm sorry but are you crazy ? I'm strongly against any votes on maps. Map rotation is good in this game we need nothing to add to it. I don't want to join a party where someone decides for myself which map I should play on or don't. Don't be ridiculous. The element of surprise is good. I hope devs are wise enough to not to ply to this kinds of propositions. Respect bro.

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The problem is that since certain maps are nearly universally disliked they wont ever show up in rotation. An example is Old Town, "everyone" seems to hate this map but It's one of my favorites. It would be a shame if it were playable but I never got to play it again. 

 

My only problem is that I'm constantly playing the same map 2-4 times in a row. 

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I am sorry, but I have to say no to this idea.

You will end up with melee voting any map that isnt old town... and on the other side of the spectrum you will have long range builds favouring rock city all day.

 

We dont have that many maps still.... they should be there for all players all the time.

Not to mention, that true skill is shown in how you handle a less then stellar map for your ride.

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