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psiberzerker

Minmaxing, and crippling over-specialization.

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Okay, I just got done playing a match with this:

A4D7097A2338EA4B84DEF6CF14FD45A1B1FD6B2B

Now, when I say "With," I mean he was technically on my side, but I left him behind, got surrounded, and pounded with Executioners, and then this was the guy my Spectator switched to first.

After the match, we talked to each other, without salt (I donlt blame him for over-extending, and getting in the sights of multiple Triple Exes, that's on me) but obviously, he set out to build a Tank.  A tankety Tank-Tank, and I probably don't have to screencap the whole entire chat to tell you what the thought process was here.

"I just want the toughest build I can make."

Okay, but if you think about it, that's also the SLOWEST build you can make, and still technically be able to move.  With Goblins.  Need i point out that Shotguns are Close Quarters weapons?  That means that you have to get Close to deal any damage, with worst in class acceleration, and a top "Speed" of 45 K/h, and predictably enough, we lost.

Again, WE lost, I rushed in, and died like an Ace, while he showed up long after everyone else was dead, and dinlt even score 1 kill, because he got pounded by the same ExExExes I did.  Let's just say that they had plenty of time to reload.

These were Bots.  Mostly Triple Xecutioner bots, and they basically didn't need a whole lot of skill, nor brains, to focus fire a slow moving, close range tank, when he was the only one left.  This is just an example, and an extreme one, but it really illustrates the meta higher up.  (Just for context, this is 8-9K Power Score.)

There' you have Typhoon Hovers vs a grab-bag full of close quarters weapons on Bigfoot (Mostly.)  Again, we see the Minmaxer Mindset.  The fastest movement parts, and the highest DPS (Melee weapons) vs the most maneuverable toting the most powerful, and accurate long range Alpha damage.

Basically, Scissors vs Paper, with no Rock.  I shouldn't have to point out which build is the Rock.  

tenor.gif

Look, this isn't Rochambeau, any more than it's Chess, Mad max, or Star Wars, and ultimately, Skilled>Build.  The best meta clan wars spaced armor black rifle sniper e-1337 no scope camper build is worthless if you donl;t know how to drive it, and all that cloth armor that works so well against other cannons gets ripped to shreds by Harvesters, pretty much like you'd expect canvas to do in a shredder.

giphy.webp

Now, I'm not going to tell you what to build, nor how to do it, but I am going to give you an idea what I mean by Crippling Overspecialization:

A sniper that doesn't carry a Knife gets killed in a knife fight.  A ninja that doesn't carry Throwing Stars gets killed in a gunfight.

Bring a gun.  Bring a knife (Or at least Hatchets.)  That way, you're prepared for any kind of fight.

The best way to counter a specialist is not playing their game.  Honestly, it's just that simple.  That's why Reaper Sandwitch, and Helios is still viable in this Meta.  They don't work as well at long range as Typhoons, nor do they brawl as well as Sparkester.

However, they can fight both of them, effectively, if you know how to play it.  I'm not saying go Reaper.  I'm not even saying Helios (Thought that's my pick.)  I'm just saying, you donlt have to go looking for a knife fight, they'll bring it to you, and here there be Cannons.

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Ya, I was lurking over a thread about how the wheels need better traction, and another that was lamenting the physics engine, when last time I did raids it was totally not those two things that sucked. It was lazy players. Players that if I didn't bring a build that would win the game for them, they would loose, and when I did, they did. I suppose that's why they like drones for pvp.  I can't remember why they don't work for raids...the intermission between assaults, I think, IDK. I used to have a drone build, but I'm too ashamed to take it seriously now, because they are just hacks for puffs who want to win but don't want to play. I had one that was simply a suicide protest vehicle for when the game sucked and was, IMO, unplayable. Leave it to Crossout to legitimize aim-bots. If you can't beat'em, join'em? Not my motto, for sure. I've done it, but it was a joke, and a middle finger to developers for ruining my favorite game. Now everybody's doing it. "Kiss my 455 Crossout" was the message I was sending by using it. Winning was an unintended side effect. I don't understand paying a robot to play a game for me. It just doesn't do it for me. It is tempting though. I like to win, too. And my stupid drone-boat did that without trying.... Because I'm contradiction manifest and personified, I will probably have to do it now, or I won't stop thinking about it. I've posted this pic (Pinkus Finkus) before.

Anyway, my point is that a lot of players suck and they like it that way. It's not the wheels, or the physics...Slackers, and the guy you are looking at appears to be trying to pay to win. I can't imagine somebody like that grinding their way into that equipment with those kinds of "skills". This game is way too hard for me to believe that. Everybody wants the pride of scars but nobody wants to get punched in the mouth to get'em, I say. There needs to be a new category for slackers to whom even playing a video game is just too much effort. It's pathetic. Drone-boats should be forced to wear pink, IMO.

PinkusFinkus-2.jpg

Edited by DocSavage
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22 minutes ago, DocSavage said:

I can't remember why they don't work for raids...the intermission between assaults, I think, IDK.

If you're talking about Turtle players, it's not laziness, it's being able to run circles around the defensive target chasing fast little weenies, with Goblins.  It's great that your snail shell makes you nigh indestructable, but we're here to make sure that that>

(Radio Tower, Oil Truck, or shipping container) doesn't get destroyed.

I'm not even going to get started on bringing Mecha legs without Steppe Spider on Escort Missions, so you can't keep up with the moving target you're supposed to protect, let alone run on ahead, and destroy those Raider outposts.

They're Too Sloooooooow.  It doesn't matter how tough you are, if you always show up for the fight too late.

You just die last.

Edited by psiberzerker

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10 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

bringing Mecha legs without Steppe Spider on Escort Missions

Been there. Done that. Sorry. Won't do it again...legs are just too slow for me all together. I can handle the Augers for cannon builds, because they're fast(ish) for "tracks," and I am going to try and build a half-track, eventually (grind-grind), but that's about as slow as I can go...legs, meh. I can't, but they look cool.

Edited by DocSavage
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6 minutes ago, DocSavage said:

Been there. Done that. Sorry. Won't do it again.

Well, you learned.  That puts you a Steppe ahead of [Name Withheld] who I had to carry through Gone in 2 Minutes twice, before i finally just had a word with him...

Incidentally, Cyclone Spooder, with Harpy.  So, he not only crawled slow, he also shot slow, too.  That's practically maxminning!

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My problem with drones isn’t that they play for you, it’s that some drones like grenadiers are BETTER than a lot of weapons. Logically weapons should follow a curve of higher skill requirement = higher effectiveness, however grenadiers can just destroy a lot of skilled players playing well just by dropping drones and driving in  circles.

Something that does all the work for you should not be more effective than something that doesn’t 

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5 minutes ago, Bobbill12345 said:

My problem with drones isn’t that they play for you, it’s that some drones like grenadiers are BETTER than a lot of weapons. Logically weapons should follow a curve of higher skill requirement = higher effectiveness, however grenadiers can just destroy a lot of skilled players playing well just by dropping drones and driving in  circles.

Something that does all the work for you should not be more effective than something that doesn’t 

Are you in the wrong thread, by mistake?  I only really have a problem with Drones, and nothing but Drones.  At that point, you're crippled by your over-specialization.  (Yeah, Turrets aren't any better than Drones.)

The problem is, they don't really fight for you, either.  They kinda just drive around, and shoot stuff, at random.  So, if you want to kill That guy, over there, you can't tell Grenny to kill that guy, over there.  They'll just keep driving around, shooting stuff, at random.

Also, there's that cool-down, where you don't have ANY OTHER WEAPON, if you didn't bring one?  Yeah, even with Oppressor, roughly half the fight, you're effectively unarmed, because you're waiting for your Drones to reload.  So, you just drive around, waiting for your drones to reload, and try not to get shot.  At least bring a Tusk, Cerberus, hatchets, or something.

Edited by psiberzerker

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19 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Are you in the wrong thread, by mistake?  I only really have a problem with Drones, and nothing but Drones.  At that point, you're crippled by your over-specialization.  (Yeah, Turrets aren't any better than Drones.)

The problem is, they don't really fight for you, either.  They kinda just drive around, and shoot stuff, at random.  So, if you want to kill That guy, over there, you can't tell Grenny to kill that guy, over there.  They'll just keep driving around, shooting stuff, at random.

Also, there's that cool-down, where you don't have ANY OTHER WEAPON, if you didn't bring one?  Yeah, even with Oppressor, roughly half the fight, you're effectively unarmed, because you're waiting for your Drones to reload.  So, you just drive around, waiting for your drones to reload, and try not to get shot.  At least bring a Tusk, Cerberus, hatchets, or something.

People were talking about drones 

And they do fight for you, yes the AI is stupid at times but if they drop it in your face that won’t make much of a difference 

And the cooldown means nothing because most use cheetah and just reload in 10-15 seconds anyways, and they go behind cover or take hits with goliaths while reloading 

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17 minutes ago, Bobbill12345 said:

People were talking about drones.

okay, but we're also talking about Minmaxing, and overspecialization.

So, too Many drones, that's at least somewhat topical.  Yes, we know, Grenadiers OP, and they fight for you, it's not fair, plz nerf, yadda yadda...  We've done that to death.

That's not what this is about.  Just because somebody said the D word doesn't mean that I'm not going to talk about the Penalties for using nothing but.

If they really won the game for you, then Clan Wars would be dominated by them, just like this forum is.

Edited by psiberzerker

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