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[Feedback] New rarity, part upgrade rework and balance changes. + and -

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Survirors!

To make some things clear about hovers changes:

The changes you may see and test on a special server are not final ones. We plan to gather all the info and work on them more, before they are released on a live server.

And yes, the drastic change in hover builds flight altitude is not intentional, it's a bug.

Please, keep that in mind while leaving your feedback.

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ATTENTION! The topic is created to gather all the constructive feedback regarding the changes and new features in progress. Please, leave your feedback only after you've tested the changes on the special test server. All the posts that are not made in accordance with the example below will be deleted!

EXAMPLE

These are the features I like the most:

  • .... (in brief)
  • ....
  • ....

These are the features that I don't like:

  • ....., because...
  • ....., because...

Conclusion: (brief constructive conclusion that sums up your overall experience)

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Survirors!

To make some things clear about hovers changes:

The changes you may see and test on a special server are not final ones. We plan to gather all the info and work on them more, before they are released on a live server.

And yes, the drastic change in hover builds flight altitude is not intentional, it's a bug.

Please, keep that in mind while leaving your feedback.

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Hopefully, the Hover Specific ones are a Multiple Choice.  Instead of implimenting All of them, we can try different things to see what sticks?

I vote for a Cabin Power Drain increase, so there's a soft limit to how many Icarus engines you can mount.  (Maybe a bit of a Durability/Tonnage buf to differentiate Icarus IV from Icarus VIII more.  The latter is just straight up better than the former.  So, I'd make Icarus IV heavier, but more Durable.  Significantly more.)

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These are the features I like the most:

  • hover nerf
  • a new upgrade system
  • more guns

These are the features that I don't like:

  • adapter buff, it actually makes is PS to Health/DMG ratio worse, so its a nerf lower its PS to 980
  • increased cabin PS, for no benefit, as far as i know the torero, didn't get any improvement, just more PS 
  • the slower acceleration of everything seems quite unnecessary. 

Conclusion: the hover nerf was really bold and welcome although maybe 20% would have been enough, and the adapter needs a proper buff, just don't make it op

 

Also cause you guys deleted my post about this ill put it here.

the adapter "buff" is really a nerf

adapter old - 940ps New - 1160ps
DMG Old - 32  new -  33
Dura Old - 125 New - 140


Old Dura 7.52ps per 1pt of health 

New Dura 8.2ps per 1pt of health


220 more PS for 15 more health
220 more PS for 1 extra DMG point

pliz lower ps :)

Also buff boosters pliz :)

Edited by ZKWS
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Good:

- New rarity, new weapons – Looking forward to it
- Fusion rework – We'll see what it brings
- Cabin energy rework – Ok
- Durability of hovers increased - Ok

Bad:

- I follow @Komun1sT in this completely concerning the hovers.
- Next to that, people did put so much hours in designing and building the current side-way blueprints, all this will become useless in a switch.
- New players will be able to quickly craft new, more efficient parts. What about us working our way through it for months/years and the new players can come in and compete with us? no sweat no glory right?

My 5p

 

 

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I don't think the dynamics of the hovers need to be changed, just up the PS, as most hover builds are already at high PS.

I would like to see the equal energy cabins, but the cabins definitely have to be changed in other aspects (heavies=tonnage+hp+large size, lights=speed+small size, meds=in between). I support this change

New rarity is needed- as I am a f2p player and has played for 2 years, the gap between blues and purples is too great (almost 10x the price!). I hope that the new rarity weapons etc will be around 100-200 coins. Also, if the old weapons are going to be moved to the new rarity, the PS and dynamics will have to be upped.

Fusion- idk

Radars... YES

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Good:

New rarity, smoother progressing curve;

new fusion perks, makes more sense, also leave more freedom for the player to make decisions on wiping current fusion;

New frame, waited this for a long time.

 

Neutral:

Cabin tweak, it is hard to say how will it change the game yet.

Hover Nerf, generally good, but in my personal opinion, it is stupid to make an all-directional movement have difference performance regarding the forwarding direction, if I were you, I will lower the acceleration of hover in all direction by a slightly smaller number, and also reduce the flying height, increase the HP.

 

Bad:

Compensation on old fusion, I think the scale of compensation should be greater, somehow it is 1 perk VS. 3 perks, you need to make the 1 perk weight more;

The radar Nerf only covered the problem which radar being used as spaced armor with a great hitbox, but it is also worth noticing that Radar also has supreme HP/Mass ratio, A general nerf on HP is also recommended;

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what i like:

1) the new weapons

2) the radar stuff

3) fusion rework

what i dont like:

1) cab energy rework (thats gonna destroy my playstyle of quad MG on growl)

 

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These are the features I like the most:

- The new tier of rarity is a new horizon in the game and add a "light" version of epic weapon that let down class to fight fair agaist them

-The new fusion system is more logical and  "usefull" now motor can had more interest and weapon  could be really vary for a same type

-The hover nerf could solve a major problem in the game and get close to the really think that is

-The new logic  for  cabin energy could restore the "stamina" of epic and legendary heavy build   

These are the features that I don't like:

-The hover nerf is too high and hover  are toooooooo slow to turn , a spider build could easy destroy it at 10 kh

-The decrease of limit mass for ceratin heavy cabin 

-Medium cabins are particularly slow when accelerated....

Conclusion: A right fire in the right way but still study for the hover nerf could literraly smash to pieces hovers in the void and turn  literraly unplayable at a certain time ..... but new variety and  dynamics looks really interresting and change the point of vue  of the game in near futur about this update and that should restore the " original crossout " battle :)

Devs You really need to read all  reactions in this topic really :017:

I m not okay with @Komun1sT say about hovers....

 

Edited by Rogathorius
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The changes are ok, I'm not fond of my fused rare cabs losing energy - but I am more excited about my fused epic cabs gaining energy - so I guess that is a reasonable trade off.

The fusion changes are a bit of a mess... it is going to become impossible to get the combination you want, especially when there are repeating buffs.. and some of them are entirely useless... increased detonation time? Why?

 

But the meat of it - the hover tweaks - seem to be in direct conflict with your description for them. 

This change Encourages Sideways hovers, not discourages them.

Having an decreased strafe acceleration speed only really negatively effects forward-facing hovers.  The primary function of hovers is to be able to strafe out to dodge shots, peak out from behind cover to make your own shots.  This means that a sideways hover, when strafing, will still be at normal acceleration rate (or after the changes - an increased acceleration rate vs moving forwards/backwards).

A normal front-facing hover, however, will have a penalty for their strafing speed, and they will be the ones who are truly penalized by this proposed change.

 

This is an indirect Buff to the most used build already, that you have been trying to balance for a year.

The only group that actually benefits from decreasing acceleration of hovers, is dogs.  Making it even more difficult for hovers to escape these abnormally-high damage builds that make up 2/3rds of clan battles is nothing more but a buff to them.  You are already buffing the blight cabin and now you are also going to be nerfing hover speed and elevation.  A hover will have even less of a chance getting away from someone that is chasing them with a spark and green firebugs than they did before, their demise will be eminent.  You have nerfed sparks, harvesters, and lances.. and now you are going to nerf the thing they were created to kill.

 

Your proposed hover changes are going to create significantly more balance issues than it is supposed to resolve - which is none.  Hovers are already extremely weak, they have to rely on their strafing and ability to hide and dodge because they cannot withstand damage.  They are significantly weaker than any other movement part by every metric - power, durability, tonnage, and speed.  Their ONLY advantage is the ability to change directions rapidly, and now you will be removing that as well.  If you want to make them slow like legs, then add 700 more durability and 2000 more tonnage, and make them legs.

But they are not legs, they are hovers.. they are jet engines turned on their side to propel a vehicle upward, set on rotating gears to allow them to move in varying directions.  Your proposed changes do not make sense to what the item is, and do not benefit anybody but the 1 build that you have spent the last 18 months trying to balance - by giving them a buff.

 

Radar Nerf is Enough

The change to radar armors will make the hovers significantly more difficult to armor against, just leave it at that - at least for now - and revisit potential hover changes at a future date.

 

Please consider how your players play the game as opposed to how you want them to play the game, you are alienating your player base by making changes that don't practically make sense.  It may be your intention for everybody to just play dogs and chase each other around, but that is not the game that your player base wants to play.

Edited by baynalasdiqa
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what i like:

hovers have been deleted 

what i like the most:

being able to play with something that's not an hover

bad things:

the usual p2w changes but i'am used to this already so LEZGO

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please do not ruin the hovers aside they are easy to destroy.

a hovers must be manageable otherwise it has no interest in being created,

lateral movements serve to dodge the enemy to overcome his fragility.
the side hovers are just a creation optimized by the players because it is the goal of the game of creating unique vehicles.

 
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These are the features I like the most:

  • RADAR FIX
  • New rarity and the weapons and options it offers
  • Some aspect of the new item upgrade system
  • Any trace of a possible hover nerf
  • Crafting wheels and tracks in pairs

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Shifting some critical hardware into the higher rarity, like the engines and generators
  • Some other aspect of the new upgrade system - like the negative perk of added weight to items and even cabins
  • New hitscan turret and drone - BAD idea
  • Cabin fusion doesn't include an option of increasing max speed
  • New way of fusing cabins will drain MASSIVE amount of pack exclusive cabins from the market

Conclusion:

I really like the addition of the new rarity, looks like the transition through the rarities will be nicer and smoother, although I would disagree on the shift of some of the items into the higher tier, like the engines. But all the new weapons look and sound really great, I especially like the new sniping autocannon. A new hitscan turret however, is a BAD idea! Crafting wheels and other movement parts in pairs is a gift from the heavens, I hope it stays that way, big thumbs up for that one! Also, it might be a bit petty, but I would like a change in the new rarity colour that would stick to the unwritten rule in across many games - make the current rare rarity green and the give the new one the old blue colour. And maybe consider renaming them to Uncommon and Rare respectively

Regarding the new item upgrade system: I like the general way this is heading, but the final version needs to be a lot more streamlined. First of all, there is now a NEGATIVE perk of added mass - rolling a cabin that is a ton and a half heavier than before is absolutely stupid and would force the player to waste yet more cabins. Which leads to another major point - The most upgraded and the most critical part to upgrade is the cabin - and most cabins are pack exclusive and are already in a HUGE demand, while their supply is severely limited. I suggest that players who own a pack with an exclusive cabin should also get a special "license" that would let those players craft those cabins at some workbench - either the respective faction's workbench or in the Secret workshop of the Engineers. They could be marked Not For Sale and just for the individual player's use for all I care (so only the cabin from the pack purchase itself could be sold), but it would help the game's economy on a massive scale! The transition from rare to epic is way more drastic when considering the cabins, compared to weapons and other modules. Also, I really wish there was a perk for the new cabin upgrades that would increase maximum speed also, maybe replace the added mass with it? But most importantly, remove the negative fusion perk from all items, pretty please! Another concern of mine is that players who already have their parts fused will heavily benefit from these changes the way I see it, maybe make the new upgrades only require one item to upgrade?

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Will keep everything as short as possible, as you can find more detailed info in other posts, which share same thoughts with me. Just adding a vote to opinions.

 

These are the features I like the most:

  • New rarity. This is really good, will bring better transition from beginner levels to advanced end game!
  • Part upgrade rework. Never tried it upgrade cause i think it's not worth it, but anyway, overall the idea is the same, spend some coins/parts get random stats, which are not thaaat big difference.
  • Radar fix, has nothing to say, just a bug that needed a fix.
  • Fixing Sideway Hovers (though not in any way that you presented in patch notes). You can detect if forward is W key or not, and if not, then apply penalties. Or some other way probably
  • I would like to see some soft and hard caps on hover count, 4-5 no limits, 5-8 some limits, 8+ more limits (limits like speed, altitude maybe)

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Hover changes: Now this one really needs some explanation here. I still want to see how they will feel after you fix the bug that are talking about, BUT, overall i can feel the nerfs coming to the speed and acceleration.
    At start I really hated hovers, i couldn't fight against them, I also bought hovers and tried to play, it was super hard, so just left them alone. But after months of practicing on hovers, I can now say, they should really be competitive part of the game, skill required, highly awarding if experienced(skill wise), and now you want to remove the BEST concept of the game. If not, spider legs and bigfoot wheels are the ONLY end game options in my opinion.
    Altitude, why you want to change this ? I hardly can defend against shotguns, lancelots, fiebugs, though lately I am predicting their movement and am able to fight back and sometimes i win against 1 vs 1. After this change, they will always win, no need to explain why...
    Strafe nerf, this should be applied ONLY to sideway builds, not regular builds moving in any direction.
    Durability is in golden spot for now, no need to change anything, they get broken easily, but not thaat easily, so it's fine.
     

These are the features that I am neutral about:

  • Cabin Rework, I think this simplifies everything from game design perspective, but having balanced cabins seems is still a very hard problem to solve anyway.

 

Conclusion: I still would like to see more final changes to hovers, and if they still be actual, fun, agile in game, I will conclude this as the BEST patch in last year.

Edited by ArmeniaX
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These are the features I like the most:

- The new tier of rarity is a new horizon in the game and add a "light" version of epic weapon that let down class to fight fair agaist them

-The new fusion system is more logical and  "usefull" now motor can had more interest and weapon  could be really vary for a same type

-The new logic  for  cabin energy could restore the "stamina" of epic and legendary heavy build   

These are the features that I don't like:

-The decrease of limit mass for ceratin heavy cabin 

-Medium cabins are particularly slow when accelerated....

- cabin weight ratio is really wrong why an harpy could take more weight than a torero

what i think should be done:

- all the cabins should ad faster acceleration 

- a new rarety level in between each other ones

- an easier way to get CK to make the difference in between new and old player (make the player dreams about customizing stuff)(i know you have plan to add a pass to get some but it should have some free and other ones with the pass

- the change on hover should only be on the acceleration give them less accelaration but higher top speed like 20% nobody cares about the sideway hover if your not able to shoot on their side that just mean you need to pratice the only thing really wrong with hover is nobody can catch them so if you are close or mid-range your f....k top because the hover will only outrun you and destroy your ride

- night day cycle for every map

- meteo

- fix the sight issues on the tsunami and other weapons where the sight of one of your cannons go everywhere but not where it need to go thats means the same place at the second sight (i understand if your canon are too far away one to the others it should not be on one sight but two separate ones) why one go up and right when you whant to shoot on your bottom left

- the mammoth should turn faster because their is way too many way to build a tsunami build who turn faster than a mammoth

- fix all the tracks issues like the goliath staying stock on the ground when triying to turn stationary 

- the steppe spider should become an heavy cabin

- fix your server issues please the game is half the time unplayable more like 3/4 of the time and its the same for every player of my clan so i'm not alone to have some issues

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 The changes are not acceptable. Hovers were killed specially. 
Any player using hovers knows that adding durability gives nothing.
 Hovers were not fast and every dog and other wheeled vehicle caught him.
 hovers have now lost all their advantages.
 They were already nerfed a few times and were now killed specifically.
 Because the kids who played for a week had been crying and couldn't destroy the hover scorpion. 
 So hovers were killed, and several cabs with 12 points were killed.
 Added to all 12 thereby destroying others.
 Echo, for example, was totally destroyed because the reduced tonnage by 2000kg is some kind of paranoia. 
Why do other heavy cabins get more tonnage and maximum weight and the Echo the opposite? 
 A heavy cabin with of medium parameters? Also, Steppe spider should be a heavy cabin,
 how come the idea that it's a medium? 
 Keen radars just like hovers disturbed children (I have not seen that better players have a problem with it),
 so let's give a nerf for all armor? It will be easier. Give all armor as decorations. 
And maybe one armor for every build. 
 Radar is not a decor.  Strange changes all the time in this game, this is the worst.
 There is nothing permanent here.
 You can't plan anything. People made spiders for themselves, spent a lot of money and/or time, 
the spiders were destroyed.
 Later people spent a lot of money/time on hovers, it was now destroyed.
 For this change like the Season pass, it is clear that the game is not important but the sale of packages. 
P2W more than before.  People want to have what they did for real money or it takes months/years of work,
 if you change it, pay the cost. If I buy and build something I want to have it, let it stay like it is.  
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These are the features I like the most:

  • New Rarity
  • Hover Adjustement (Forward Speed seems to be a bug so im curious to see how it plays out)
  • Radar Fix (Finally, then again this might've been already enouzh to balance hovers)
  • New Frames :D

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Fusion Change, Seems unfair new players CAN'T get the stronger fusions if they havent fused the parts before this change. Bastion Hauler (14%, instead of 10%) seems OP for example

Undecided:

  • Cabin Energy Rework, i fear it will kill of some cabins like steppe. Also Everyone in CW will have kapkans now xD. And this just seems like a revert to the old energy system we had, so do we just switch it around all 1-2 years? :P

Conclusion: (brief constructive conclusion that sums up your overall experience)

Do not go trough with that fusion change, it could potentially annoy new players because they cant get the stronger fusions, at the same time if some parts are better with 2-3 fusion perks it annoys your old playerbase.


So instead Combine old and new fusion system -> If you fuse a part you get 2-3 perks to choose from, but you can only have 1 on the part. This reduces randomness for new players while not touching already fused parts

Edited by v3rgi1
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