Woodyrojo

[Feedback] New map “Ashen Ring”, final iteration of the upgrade mechanics and parts of the new faction. + and -

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ATTENTION! The topic is created to gather all the constructive feedback regarding the changes and new features in progress. Please, leave your feedback only after you've tested the changes on the special test server. All the posts that are not made in accordance with the example below will be deleted!

EXAMPLE

These are the features I like the most:

  • .... (in brief)
  • ....
  • ....

These are the features that I don't like:

  • ....., because...
  • ....., because...

Conclusion: (brief constructive conclusion that sums up your overall experience)

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First day of testing feedback:

These are the features I like the most:

  • The new legendary drones have been made less powerful and more of a support weapon.
  • Radar changes will remove radar armor from the game.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Fusion rework is a bit generous with sets being refused as sets and introduces nerfed fusion bonuses. The fusion nerfs were not announced in the testing notes either.
  • The mecha legs are a bit too good. They seem to have the recoil and impulse resistance of ML 200s and more or less can replace non-mecha legs with very few issues. Maybe their speed could be knocked down to 30 k/h or the max speed of ML 200s raise to 45-50 km/h to resolve this issue? Additonally, they might need an extension in the time used to change modes as it seems too short for such an advantage.

Second day of testing feedback:

These are the features I like the most:

  • The new cabin is good but not OPed.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • The mecha legs still feel too good for release.

Third day of testing feedback:

These are the features I like the most:

  • The new map is new, I especially like the ambient sound as well the particle accelerator (?) effect.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • The mecha legs still feel too good for release.

Conclusion: The new faction gear is still nice and it's even more balanced now with exceptions like the new legs which seem to have too few trades from the current in-game legs. The new map is great with both close range and long range approaches being viable. The special rarity is still being kept however which is disappointing through.

Edited by SIGMA920
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These are the features I like the most:

  • Items with identical upgrades getting same set of additional upgrades
  • Wheel upgrade that gives extra grip
  • Possible new way in which drones could function - well done
  • Limits introduced for multiple Aegis builds
  • New map!

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Some upgrade perks getting unnecessary nerf - especially the Radiators (Make cooler perk stronger instead!), but also tonnage on wheels and perhaps the ammo pack capacity increase.
  • The radar change - the hard limit from last week's test was just better
  • Epic Oculus seems like yet another indirect buff to hovers
  • Some upgrade perks - such as the increase in engines' effectiveness - don't have any effect at all

Conclusion: The upgrade system is probably in the best state out of the testing so far, except for the unnecessary nerf to certain upgrades, especially the radiators - I would suggest either going back to the 30% increase and extending it to the coolers also, or increasing the base stats, so it would be the same with the old upgrade and the new system - for light and fragile parts, extra structure is not worth loosing half of the old bonus. But please, also don't forget too think about the upgrades in terms of pack item availability as their prices will rise and their numbers diminish, we need additional source of those items.

Regarding the radar change, I'm still certain that the hard limit is the best way to go about it. Now the radar lets through damage from the already strong cannons, but weaker weapons like machineguns or shotguns will still have to chew through the radars' hitpoints first.

The change to the drones is a step in the right direction for certain, just like the diminishing returns on using more shields at once. New map is always nice to see as well :)

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These are the features I like the most:

  • New stuff, new rarity, new upgrade system ; new things are always welcomed as logn as they are not game-breaking.
  • New legs , I like them a lot ; why can't we have hovers with same angle and mount option ? 45° hovers would be cool ;
  • New cabin's perk ; I like that you can have multi purpose things now.
  • New map, I hope you will add more light items to game soon, and add this to bedlam and race etc.
  • New frames, they will be so nice for many stuff.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Bat Cabin's total mass. : It should be somewhere between Growl / Blight . Basically 7000s
  • I noticed too much p.s. on some my epic stuff ; I hope it's just about test server. Otherwise raids and stuff may need another adjustment, by addition of new rarity, it was inevitable anyway.
  • Lack of control presets, please make this a thing; you are adding more stuff with controls and keys ; some builds doesn't fit to same setup, at least give us some option to save and import them locally by just a simple button or something.

Conclusion: I'm excited about new faction and its events , stuff seems cool, may need slight balancing but seems promising. Looking forward to see the events on test server, or better; live server.

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Just give us option to lock fusion bonuses that we want to keep when refusing something that is already fused, so that only the unwanted perks change on the item.

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These are the features I like the most:

  • New login screen ;), really amazing!
  • Your attempt to solve multiple Aegis builds.
  • Radar armor nerf.
  • Lowering hovers height.
  • New worker legs.
  • Epic oculus.

These are the features that I don't like:

  • Side hover problem and their ability to carry heaviest weapons is not solved by lowering fly height. So practically its very light nerf. Porcupines still do not explode under hover even with lowered frame.
  • Problem with spark will be accelerated by new drone. Drones are almost untouchable even by teammates. Combination of decreasing reload and power is wrong. On test it seems spark drone repeats a bug with loosing of control of attacked vehicle (tested on spider).
  • Upgrade system looks very, very bad. It will hurt community heavily (in terms of ballance, achieved upgrades, frustration due to RNG and influence on market economy). So heavily, that I suggest you to do not release it in this form. There is a forum thread with constructive suggestion about it, pls take it into account.

Conclusion:

Many positive changes and new upgrade mechanics we are very afraid of. Do not make upgrade system such way. Unfortunatelly heavy hovers problem still not solved.

 
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+ New maps are always good

+ The art team hit it out of the park with the new content style and aesthetic, I'm excited to see the new structure pieces and parts.

+ The new cabin(s) seems pretty well balanced and versatile

- The new map has no destructible environment. Patches of scorched trees should crumble when a Prius drives into them. 

- The new wheels legs are very disappointing, they are nothing different from current wheels in directional movement, acceleration, and speed. They are nothing different from legs in leg mode. Their implementation quality shows signs of being rushed, and it does not match the art and mesh quality. These legs are works of art, hats off to the artist who built and textured them, and they are implemented so poorly.

- The Spark drone is nothing anybody ever asked for. Drones are simply too powerful for their skill requirement when used as main weapon types. If drones are desired to be used complimentarily and not as a main weapon class, then make them powerful but limited to one. 

- The Verificator Epic Oculus is overpowered and the Oculus modules and Cloaks are all their own problems created as symptoms by the obscenely overpowered Radar Detectors. The Detector forces players to use a cloak if they want to surprise an enemy or use guerilla tactics. This cloak however makes builds like Blight Firebugs and Porcupines very overpowered as they can kill a team before it orients itself. So the developers put a bandaid over the problem and added the Oculus to counter these rush builds. But the Oculus also totally counters every other build which cannot do what rush builds do. Or it doesn't work at all to decloak ranged enemies that it has line of sight to. You can't avoid detection from Detectors. Now with a flying Oculus drone, the only builds that can ever win by fighting a disoriented team are the rush builds. The solution to this unique problem is to address Detectors, Cloaks, and Oculuses all at once. They kill strategic creativity in competitive battles like CW.

- Hovers are still overpowered. I don't care who says they aren't. They need to suffer accuracy penalties that scale with speed, they need to be less flip resistant. They need to be much faster, more responsive to weight as well in terms of height and top speed. 

Overall, this update would be good if the underlying problems with the game were addressed. 

  • Delay the update until wheel legs are implemented properly. They should behave like a hydraulic excavator arm with a wheel driven by an electric motor attached to it. Not stomped around on like its a ML-200.
  • Maps need destructible objects, this is a feature that has been in games since the 90's. It was a feature in Hard Truck Apocalypse. Trees should not kapkan me when I jump off the southwestern valley cliff on bridge. Corroded sheet metal buildings on the Nameless Tower map should be destructible. This new map is going to kapkan me with trees or wrecked car piles too much.
  • Drones need to be limited to 1 if they are to be powerful weapons to prevent players from specializing their build for drones. They are not supposed to be as powerful for how widespread and automated they are
  • Spotting Mechanics (Radar Detectors, Cloaks, and Oculuses) need to all be addressed in one sweeping update because they kill battlefield creativity by making battlefield information too easily accessible. Every fight in CW is degraded to brute force fights of who has better reflexes and the better build. The only vehicles that can kill an enemy by surprise attack are the vehicles like Blights, lances, or porcs because of their burst damage and ability to incapacitate with sparks, kapkans, or skinners,
  • Hovers need to have a niche identity in Crossout. They should not do everything as well as wheels, legs, meagtrinders, or tracks while being versatile enough to be a fast glass cannon or a giant indestructible brick. They are a jack of all trades and a master of all movement part right now.
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+ Nerfing the new drone is good. The old version would have brake the game

+ The new legs looks fun and creative. The only problem I see with them is that there will be no reason for anybody to use the old legs (unless the new ones are very expensive, which would be lame)

- The specs on the "special" cabins are weird. I understand the idea with the Jawbreaker changes, but the Bat will become useless. 1300 PS with so low tonnage, mass and power? Any blue cabin with Big G will be a better option.

- At the end you did nothing about the hovers. At least raise their powerscore.

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The transition of existing fused parts has been mishandled. Existing fused items should either stick with the original perk or have its original components refunded to player; so that those who are happy with the changes can roll a new perk, and those that are not happy can then sell the additional copies refunded in order to preserve the intrinsic value of all players' inventories.

balanced =/= viable =/= effective

The Bigram is a great idea but poor execution. The perk it gives contributes to interesting gameplay but the part itself is not as exciting. They make a great alternative to bigfoot with increased durability and accuracy as wheels; but the lengthy transition times and slow speed makes them a poor choice for legs. In order to make the Bigrams great and while not overshadowing the existing legs, consider buffing the Bigram walking speed to 40km/h or even 45km/h while also buffing the ML-200 to have additional resistances similar to that of an armored track, so that comparing the two legs is akin to comparing the Auger with the Armored Tracks.

Additionally, remove the transition delay. (and possibly add a cooldown if the transition is not meant to be spammed).

 

I am curious as to why the Corvos received a passive nerf, while every Epic weapon received a durability buff and powerscore increase, Corvos seems to only have gotten a powerscore increase. They are currently viable, but will be less viable considering it's primary targets; other weapons, which all have gotten their health pool increased.

 

Nothing else outstanding.

Edited by Golden_Dawn
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Fusion nerf to radiators and ammo is BS! Fusion nerf to any perk is BS.

Please fix these changes.

Edited by RoughMonkey
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Old fusion for a gun: +15% damage.

New fusion for a gun: 1st +5% damage, 2nd +5% damage, 3rd +5% damage.

If its possible to get the same fusion result 3 times, the old fusion result should be kept for all those 3 slots and we should be given the option to undo fusion so we can reroll if we want to with the new system. Or just reroll remaining 2 slots and keep the old fusion in the 1st slot.

No single way to chance fusions for old parts will make everyone happy, so give us options.

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The lancer's guild no longer unanimously approve.

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These are the features I like the most:

  • new parts, is allways good
  • aegis nerf, might not be enough, here I feel you cant activate all aegis at once, and needs some time after first one dies to be able to activate the next one
  • hover height nerf, might not be enough, still reduce the acceleration abit
  • radar spam fix, this one I like as well
  • new map: new maps are allways welcome, as long as old maps done get taken down

These are the features that I don't like:

  • random fusion gain, of the old fused parts..... this is just BS, 2-3 times I tryed copy account data and got difrent outcomes on my parts every time, this will hurt players inventory way to much to be honest, to get the perfect cab you want you need to re fuse it multiple times, and when it comes to the pack cabs, they are way to expensive to keep fusing untill you get what fusion you want. take the bastion cab that you can get 10% dammage reduction to it, this will be one expensive cab to fuse just to get that fusion, and you might not get the mass/hauler part of it ontop of it. cabs should have one or the other fusion, not some BS RNG fusion.
    I dont want this feature in the game, its fine for weapons and modules, but cabs.... they will be ruined.
  • animated loggin/loading scree..... honestly this is a waste of developers time, that time making that would be better to finish of the oculus drone, improving texture, models, mesh of the models/terrain.

 

These are features that is needed:

  • more buttons to press.... atm 1,2,shift,left/right buttons are for weapons, but now more and more modules with triggers, there isnt enough buttons alocate modules to, add 3 and 4 to the alocation of modules/weapons to please, if not the entire 1 to 0 row, it would be so much better for everyone

 

Conclution

allthough the fusion was a atempt to make the game interesting its not the correct way to go, if this fusion rework goes through the price on all cabs that are pack exclusive will become rare or even sold out on the market, due to some having bad RNG with fusion, getting pritty much crap fusion, so they have to rebuy 2 more cabs to fuse the one cab to get what they want, a cab that you want might end up costing 10000 of not even more coins to get fused corectly.

Id rather see some sort of coin/resourse cost to change the fusions one wants

screenshot-200131-154241(-98 3 200).jpg

Edited by Sasherz
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About the legs, was really hyped about them when i saw some footage of them, but...

These are the features I like the most:

  • They look nice and function nicely and kinda are something new.
  • already have couple great ideas in my head how to use them etc.

These are the features that I don't like or would have liked done differently:

  • in wheeled mode they are quite ok, but in leg mode they are somewhat painfully slow, would be nice if they were bit faster (actually a lot faster).
  • the mode change should be also faster in my opinion to get more use out of that function. (maybe not instant, but close to it)
      (• kinda requires the steppe spider cabin to be good, just like the normal legs did back in the day and that's not so good thing...)

    Conclusion, what i saw of them before the test server got me hyped, but when i tested them i was tad dissapointed, i mean, if i wan't to use legs, i use the current ones and they do the job better and if i wan't wheels, i would just use normal wheels. I wouldn't mind if they actually replaced the current legs we have because we have had them for a while now, maybe make the old legs bit tankier and these new legs faster and more agile but bit weaker, would be nice to compete with the hovers with these etc. to move somewhat fast around the battlezone. Also for some reason expected to be able to strafe while in wheel mode, one can only wish.

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Things nobody likes: 

Nerf hammer to fusion perks. No one asked for it, no one needed it and no one wants it. There is not a single comment here or in the general discussion that speaks positively of the change. 

Your reasoning may be that other things are now getting perks that make up the difference. However, this is not a universal trend. 

Before: Getting extra ammo meant getting 'Cartridge' on your fused ammo pack.

After: You can now both get more ammo from the ammo pack AND from the gun's fusion perk as well.

Conclusion: In this one instance, it makes sense to a degree. But what about top end CW? This now screams P2W (good god I hate that term and using it...ew). Why you ask? Because the guy who fused his two Typhoons and got both with extra ammo and weight reduction has an INCREDIBLE advantage in a Harpy Typhoon versus someone without fused Typhoons, and still the HUGE advantage over those who fused Typhoons and got neither ammo nor weight. Also, how many people honestly have 6 relics laying around? Nerfing the ammo box has repercussions all the way up to endgame CW. 

And that's just the ammo box. Moving on...

Before: Radiator perk gives 30% bonus, available to any player with an Legendary-tier inventory (as in if you are to the point you can afford Apollo and a set of legendaries, you are in the money). Fair play for players reaching a stage in their game where fusing Epics is a reasonable goal. Fusing your heat-based weapons could give you additional, minimal gains on overheating. 

After: The nerf makes all heat-based weapons weaker. And with no new fusion perks to balance it out (which again screams P2W), you now have 0 chance to make up that lost percentage. Fusing your heat-based weapons and actually getting overheat reduction now becomes more necessary to bridge the gap of already underperforming and weak weapons. And if you somehow got 4!!! Heat-resistant Arbiters, or 3! Heat-resistant Punishers (yea right, you'd sooner win the lottery) they STILL HAVE NO MATHEMATICAL CHANCE TO FIRE AS LONG AS THEY CAN NOW WITH A SINGLE FUSED THERMOSTABLE RN SEAL.

Conclusion: These nerfs will only serve to make a bigger gap (at all rarities, but especially Relic tier) of players based solely on their inventory. The giy who gets the right fusions will be 10+% more effective than the guy who can't fuse his Relics, or DOES fuse his Relics and doesnt get the right fusion.

 

All that aside, your playerbase is SCREAMING for you not to do it.

Whatcha gonna do? 

 

EDIT: To be clear: People like the new fusion idea, it is after all something the community has been asking for for a long time. We welcome the change of perks and the new possibilities and removing useless perks. The only part that people do not want is the nerf to the perks they worked so hard to get. You can always adjust the values later if anything becomes to OP.

We dealt with radar armor for over a year, Typhoons being OP for over 6 months (much longer really). We can deal with it if someone has too much ammo or shoots for too long. If it becomes a problem, nerf it after you are sure. Preemptively nerfing items now is simply not the answer anyone wants. 

Roll out the new fusion change, but do NOT adjust old values. 

            - Sincerely,

                          Everyone

Edited by DHawk216
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1 hour ago, DHawk216 said:

EDIT: To be clear: People like the new fusion idea, it is after all something the community has been asking for for a long time. We welcome the change of perks and the new possibilities and removing useless perks. The only part that people do not want is the nerf to the perks they worked so hard to get. You can always adjust the values later if anything becomes to OP.

no we dont want this fusion rework, it will be horrible for special cabs that are pack exlusive, having to buy them off the market to re-re-re-re fuse them to get what you want, this will make this cabs fade away from the game, because people buy them up to try-try-try again to get what theyt want, ending with only the top players with most coins will be able to buy them.

refusing such cabs and get tonnage instead of mass that you wanted but get the 2nd/3rd fusion you want, you need to refuse the cab again, and its a slim chance to get the perks you want.

 

we dont want the fusion rework.

 

  

1 hour ago, DHawk216 said:

Roll out the new fusion change, but do NOT adjust old values. 

            - Sincerely,

                          Everyone

Im not one of the persons that want this, so not "everyone", and its not only me who dont want this fusion rework

Edited by Sasherz
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- New Legs Bilgram

When i saw the templates for the wheeled legs i tough about hibrid legs that strafe around and be a bit more faster them regular legs and the toggle would be the height and of course when heighted the speed would decrease or another suitable debuff. Something in the line of a "Tachikoma leg" (Ghost in the Shell reference).
But they are so slow in leg mode and the transition is to slow as well, maybe a bit faster but not instantaneous.

About the new weapons, i dont like the new names of them...
What was wrong with "Nail Gun", "Plasma Cutter" and "Plasma Drill" ?

- Assembler (what assembles? its more like a Tesla Coil/Canon or even the name Van de Graaff Canon sounds more interesthing)
I like the weapon itself, seems balanced, but its very hard to see and hear when its fully charged in the middle of combat... maybe change the visual indicator to a round meter, like a equalizer visual wave thing,  that would change color near overload.

- Triger (Mining Laser would sound better)
Seems to be overpowered when 3 or more are used, either kill quickly or be killed. I can see this being an abuse for hoover players with the peek a boo gameplay.

- Annihilator 
Well i dont like how it works, plenty of times instead of locking a target and sending them i end up resetting them. And the attack range is so short compared to the first time i tested them.
Maybe a bit more attack range and a bit more time needed pressing the button to reset them that in case of mistake you can stop the reset sequence on time.

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What i like is :

- The bigram looks cool, but the switch mode time is too long in my opinion. 2sec is too long.

- The epic oculus is great but it dont show the direction where is the invisible enemy like the rare one... it should be in my opinion.

- All the new weapons are good in my opinion.

- The new map is absolutely lovely !

- Radar nerf : finally !

What i dont like is :

- Drones are unhealthy for the game... players who play drone just are lazy and dont want to aim they just want to play with one hand and eat with the other... Drones need a complete rework to be a real weapon.

- New fusion system... just.. dont do that... your new fusion system is just a mess (sorry) you need to think more about it and bring it back later when it will be OP.

- The fact that the pilgrim, jawbreaker and the bat cabin will stay at 10 energy points but they will be special cabin -_- this is a total non sens.

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These are the features that I don't like: The new upgrade system

I found new arguments against proposed upgrade system:

  • Getting exactly what player want will be absurdly expensive even applied on part with only two categories.
  • Your proposal inverts old mechanic, when unwanted upgrade is exchanged. New system is about loosing part with upgrade player want to have. It could be very confusing and may lead to expensive mistakes.
  • When the new system will be live, it will be very problematic to change it to another system due to politics you applied in the past (no refund for players who spend money in coin sinks).
  • Rich players will gain more advantages over the others. You know the system is highly nonlinear and it is big risk to give more advantages to people who wanna pay for it.
  • Due to existing cheating of some players it will be very difficult to recognise if a battle was influenced by using cheats or by cumulation of good upgrades.

 

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