Recommended Posts

Im going to be brief, im not going to argue with anyone about this. Feel free to visit Marion cobretti on youtube if you have any disputes about  what im going to say about how raids work. Im writing this brief guide, to show what raids are best to do, what power score, and why.

First things first.

There are only 3 factors that determine how strong a a bot is for a player.

Raid difficulty

How many players are in the raid

And what your power score is. 

Im not going to argue about your stupid pc battle logs showing bot ps increase, the game clearly displays an average for the log., watch the videos or test it yourself it takes 5 minutes.

-Raids have Active, PERCENTILE based power scaling. That affects both damage dealt and recieved by bots. Every time you cross a 1000 power score, the bots are approximately 15-20% stronger than they just were

 Why this is important

Everybody knows that 4 arbiters do more damage than 4 vectors. Everybody

But arbiters do not do 3 times the damage or more justifying the raise in health for the bot as well as how much damage the bot does in return

Basically if you are running a huge build in raids, sure you are doing more damage than the little 4 vector guy in terms of numbers, but your relative damage to the bot, is in the dirt and the score at the ems will reflect it if you finish.

To sum the nonsense above up, 5999 is THE BEST power score to run a raid, for the average player, its very usable in medium and hard raids. And imo, rare level mgs or shotguns are the best weapons. 

Second . Which raids are the best and why.

Steel cradle- after this latest rework, steel cradle is decent of you wanna just get the raids done fast, it takes 4-5 minutes with a reasonably competant team, pou t yeuld is low however

Data Theft-

Reasonably fast raid, high point yield - id put this one in the middle

Frontier defense : best raid now, by far

After a series of updates, the bot rework and spawn locations being the latest, this raid takes 6-7 minutes and even the worst team mate will score a whopping 1000 points now. I average 1500 points using mgs, even with porc players coming too.

Definitely the current best raid, per fuel used

 

Which raid suck imo.

Permimeter breach.  It definitely takes the longest, out of any raid  and yeilds 700 points approx at the end of it.  Its a crap raid. I will not do it

 

Why am i writing this.

Just trying to spread awareness. I dont think people understand that raid scaling is a thing, or how its implemented. I believe there is a false narrative that people think when a 15k shows up as a team mate, the bots are dire tly harder than if a 5k shows up, when in reality they have the same hp. And do the same damage to you

The 15 k player is making the bot harder for itself to kill, takes more damage from the bot, and is likely making thw bot do more damage to defensive objectives.

End rant

Err guide

 

 

Edited by Babylonsburning
Update, other guy inspired me
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with everything above and wish more people would visit this forum thread. That said if your 5999 raid build was pushed into the 6k bracket, and you have sinus-0, feel free to replace the vectors, and adjust the build to 6999. The perk more than makes up for the bump to the scaling. I ran a bunch of raids earlier and it was smooth sailing.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/7/2020 at 7:03 AM, TheRealNichivo said:

I agree with everything above and wish more people would visit this forum thread. That said if your 5999 raid build was pushed into the 6k bracket, and you have sinus-0, feel free to replace the vectors, and adjust the build to 6999. The perk more than makes up for the bump to the scaling. I ran a bunch of raids earlier and it was smooth sailing.

PS story is indeed a bit arbitrary, it depends on what kind of weapon you use, MG's 5999 sounds ok. I use Impulse's for raids lately. I can use them from 5999, but after some experimentation, I now realize that 7999 works much better. Why? For the simple reason that Impulse does a lot of damage, but also overheats quickly. With a collection of radiators and coolers and a Humpback you can shoot almost without interruption. Goofy thing does it absolutely better than boring 4x MG build. The only drawback is that the Grenade Launcher is not an easy weapon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 x apc st

2x shiw st

2x array st, fused gifts

Favorit cab

Cheetah

Seal

Ampere

AC64

Fuel tank, small.

Aspect

Thunderbolt on its own trigger. Or occasionally AC50 Storm

 

Pile of bumpers,stickers, lights, exhausts ,truck container (?) Doors etc. But high ps, 8300 i recall. Never lost more than one wheel,once so far. 

Any sense for any raids?

Been using this suicide lemming on easy and medium raids, and only rarely needed to use repair kit only to get back for last 5-10 secs.

 

 

 

 

IMG_20200309_220333.png

At this moment it looks a tad different as theres small plow in front + one extra bumper just like the one in front of Thunderbolt, and i removed the Catch bumper in front of upper weapons as they limited the shooting angles, and i replaced the spiked, arc shaped thing from rear end of roof and put a Catch bumper in its place.

Edited by Siberian_Jay3x6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raids in general have been changed slightly, everthing i wrote still holds true but i do think the base hp for bots might be up from from when i made this post.

I was running 4 fused vectors on fused favorite with single purple radiator, and epic radar.

The build still works, but the specials came out so i found a way to squeeze the build a bit

Im now running

Pu1 charge

4 fused sinus 0

Favorite 

Single rare fused radiator

4 apc wheel steering

Special class maxwell detector.

Has about 1350 hp, has the benefits of low ps compared to the big cars

 

Edited by Babylonsburning
Omni box, it sucks tbh
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For PC players you can try my build I've been using for months now, or make a slight variant if you lack some parts. It's "5999 raider" on exhibition. 4 vectors, 2 purple radiators, Torero cabin, fairly normal tower except it's little behind the cabin instead of straight above it. It uses damage-passtrough parts as armor I've shown months ago in vehicles subsection.

I finally tried testing Bastion version too, but sadly the PS changes means you can't really use gas gen and without that, you can't use two radiators which really drops the firepower. So that version is probably not going to be ever better.

Edited by PurdooSix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, PurdooSix said:

For PC players you can try my build I've been using for months now, or make a slight variant if you lack some parts. It's "5999 raider" on exhibition. 4 vectors, 2 purple radiators, .

That is the best raid build I've seen. I dont know why you used apc side parts though, a roof is practically indentical to two side parts except it will be tankier vs blasts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Firedrizzle said:

That is the best raid build I've seen. I dont know why you used apc side parts though, a roof is practically indentical to two side parts except it will be tankier vs blasts.

Had to think a bit, ah yes, you mean the side colums for tower. I think it's better that way, then they are split, so that you can lose the other while the other remains. Explosive damage is fairly rare in raids.

Not so sure how much it really makes the tower or radiator more durable now that Im thinking about it, because only the other is connected to something else but the radiator. I might try replacing them with the bigger part, that way I could use few more small damage passthrough parts I've unlocked.(those tiny from pestilence pack) And one of the Founders stucture parts, the ones I've used, also have superior PS to durability ratio over all other stucture parts. Seems clearly unintentional but it will probably never get fixed, as it's not a huge "bug". I don't have enough of them yet to fully replace the tower stucture parts with them.

The last part from Firestarters, pestilence part, is absolutely amazing with it's durability, passthrough and PS. But it will take long time for me to unlock it yet, because the basic factions are so much better in making coins with crafting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could tell by looking large platform was much better than half wall. I think founder's structure parts were meant to be better so people have more reason to keep playing even if they havent got premium parts to unlock. I accept that.

I'm envious of other people for having different buggy parts, only gun mount is unique for me.

 

I said not to use epics, but I might be doing it again anyway...

Edited by Firedrizzle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With this past update, war for fire has gone from a good raid for time spent + gas, to mediocre at best

Ill give all the raids a proper run through, but imo, data theft is the new best atm

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Babylonsburning said:

With this past update, war for fire has gone from a good raid for time spent + gas, to mediocre at best.

On any diff, or just Hard?  I tried PB on Lost Coast, but it hasn't come up on Terminal 45 yet.  (Saving my gas, crossing my fingers.)

1 less weenie in the defensive waves isn't going to make a significant difference.  I didn't even notice before I checked the patch notes.  Than you for keeping us posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frontier defense, is now my favorite raid. Easily pull 1500 points out of it, takes about 8 minutes 

Data theft is approx the same, as before, 1k points would be a good score

Breach is the same, imo it just takes too long for what it is. 

Nice thing about the update, is purple bots and leaders now pay for the increased difficulty. Before it was better to clobber the reds if yoy wanted points, now a purple is like killing 4 reds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Babylonsburning said:

Breach is the same, imo it just takes too long for what it is. 

It's just a fun run for me.  The rest of the Raids feel like Grinds, turning Fuel into Copper.  PB is pretty much what I play for, there's driving, fighting, defending, racing back before that 1 guy hogs the Boss Fight.  It's like all the game modes (Except PvP) rolled into one!

That, and I'm really starting to love Chemical Plant.  Especially for Steel Cradles, but also War for Fire.  I'd guess that there's a difference when you see raids as a Chore.  Especially now that Copper is worth half of what Scrap is on the (PC) market, there's really no incentive to grind Easy Raids, so Normal, and Hards become even more of a chore/waste of time.

I prety much do Easy raids just to turn off my brain, and enjoy the game, for what it is:  A game.  (I farm Normal, and Hard for Plastic, and Electronics, respectively.)

Edited by psiberzerker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/27/2020 at 3:29 PM, Babylonsburning said:

Frontier defense, is now my favorite raid. Easily pull 1500 points out of it, takes about 8 minutes 

Breach is the same, imo it just takes too long for what it is. 

Perimeter gives much more points now, fairly easily over 1k. Previously I often got close to 800, little below or above it. I don't think I ever broke 850 but got close. But from Frontier I've only got 1400 max, how did you get 1500 points, were other players really bad, and/or did you use Porcs?


IMO right now the two best are Frontier and Perimeter, with most following close behind, only the war for fire is bad. This when playing solo with randoms.

 

Okay yeah it seems it's fairly easy to get 1600 from Frontier, just got 1777. But usually 1500-1600.

Edited by PurdooSix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, PurdooSix said:

Perimeter gives much more points now, fairly easily over 1k. Previously I often got close to 800, little below or above it. I don't think I ever broke 850 but got close. But from Frontier I've only got 1400 max, how did you get 1500 points, were other players really bad, and/or did you use Porcs?


IMO right now the two best are Frontier and Perimeter, with most following close behind, only the war for fire is bad. This when playing solo with randoms.

 

Okay yeah it seems it's fairly easy to get 1600 from Frontier, just got 1777. But usually 1500-1600.

I usually use mgs, havnt porced a raid in awhile, i find porcs , although give user a lot of points,  make points dissapear.

Previously a scavenger bot red, gave 7 points total,  if a single porc hit the bot, and then a team mate killed it, the porc user would usually get 4 points or so, finishing guy would get 1 if he was lucky. Deleting 2 points from the game, lord knows why.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Babylonsburning said:

I usually use mgs, havnt porced a raid in awhile, i find porcs , although give user a lot of points,  make points dissapear.

Previously a scavenger bot red, gave 7 points total,  if a single porc hit the bot, and then a team mate killed it, the porc user would usually get 4 points or so, finishing guy would get 1 if he was lucky. Deleting 2 points from the game, lord knows why.  

Yeah the new Frontier looks pretty fair. While if I get off the charts result like 1777 points, the lowest player can still have 1k points and I'm sure they are fairly happy about that. But I asked about Porcupines because if someone gets more points than I do while I still played well, it's usually  ~8k-9k player using them on dedicated raid build. Porcupine is kinda the only thing capable of effectively outDPS'ing vectors with purple radiators.


I don't think the scoring is based on splitting the total amoung players who damaged them. It's based on damage done. So if a bot can theoretically give 7 points(when a single player kills it completely), it can also give less in total if each single player damaging it, didn't do enough damage to it. It might even be possible to also give more total points, it's really hard to check.

 

Recently, this happened. We were all killing the second leviathan. I had 3 Helios and I was shooting them non-stop because of the new mechanic. Right after killing the second leviathan, I noticed on the distance the third leviathan spawned in.

I don't know if players are doing it on console, but on PC some players have their leviathan intentionally very weak and yet high PS. They typically have lots of hovers, and lots of explosive things around their cabin, and very little structure. So I moved my aim towards the leviathan which was still dropping, as they are spawned in slightly above ground, and I killed it instantly with very little damage like just 1 second after it had spawned. As I didn't do enough damage to it, I didn't get the third stage rewards. The other players didn't even have time to fire at it and likely didn't even see it, since I killed it pretty instantly.

So I think the points are based on thresholds. I've seen it plenty of times that if I did only little damage to a raider while killing it, I might not get any points at all.

2mqi60Z.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/10/2020 at 7:12 AM, Babylonsburning said:

Raids in general have been changed slightly, everthing i wrote still holds true but i do think the base hp for bots might be up from from when i made this post.

I was running 4 fused vectors on fused favorite with single purple radiator, and epic radar.

The build still works, but the specials came out so i found a way to squeeze the build a bit

Im now running

Pu1 charge

4 fused sinus 0

Favorite 

Single rare fused radiator

4 apc wheel steering

Special class maxwell detector.

Has about 1350 hp, has the benefits of low ps compared to the big cars

 

Sounds similar to my raid build. I didn't squeeze anything I just bumped it to 6999 with sinus-o, favorite, bg, seal, epic radar, 4 apc, and such, but then I also like to look good. It has worthless decor and such but, until everything is maxed I will continue using decor.

 

screenshot-200330-015555(-8 5 309).jpg

screenshot-200330-015524(-3 5 291).jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/7/2020 at 7:03 AM, TheRealNichivo said:

I agree with everything above and wish more people would visit this forum thread. That said if your 5999 raid build was pushed into the 6k bracket, and you have sinus-0, feel free to replace the vectors, and adjust the build to 6999. The perk more than makes up for the bump to the scaling. I ran a bunch of raids earlier and it was smooth sailing.

It's possible to have Sinus-0 and stay below 6K PS (and 1100 HP), see "Raid Soldier v2" in exhibition. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Charlie9204 said:

It's possible to have Sinus-0 and stay below 6K PS (and 1100 HP), see "Raid Soldier v2" in exhibition. 

Why the hell would I give up an instant cool down from my favorite cab, an epic radar, an epic seal, and a fly sexy roadster, and 403 structure to run around in a poop mobile?:lol::lol::p:

Mine has full rep bonus from decor also. That is a terrible idea!

Edited by TheRealNichivo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They've definitely changed something in raids. Imo, for the better.

Theres no longer a huge advantage to being a small car. , my little raid car, actually now tends to die faster than a normal build id use in pvp, and the big car can kill stuff now.

I believe the scaling is still there, but, its not as crazy. Or so it seems.  Gunna reaquire some punishers in the near future and see how they hold up 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.