Charlie9204

Best Hard Raid build ?

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11 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

You don't even have 300 HP durability, and you have a ammo pack on the side waiting for a fly to f a r t  on it.

Dude.  Scroll down.  That was just the parts, where you could see them.  The actual build has 1,500 Durability, 5 times that.

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Joules need speed, but incinerators need to be quite still to aim. 

No, they don't.  I can drive around with the button held down, and just launch it whenever's clever.  

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Just copy some raid scoreboards next time and prove me it's a good build.

Never mind.  I'll just start my own thread.  I know how you feel about that, but it's obvious that you don't want contributions here.  (not like the Vehicles sub-forums is filling up with threads anyway.

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Just copy some raid scoreboards next time and prove me it's a good build. they'll speak to me more than a thousand words.

Oh like you read what you wanted to into the 2 pictures I just provided?  

Edited by psiberzerker

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32 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Dude.  Scroll down.  That was just the parts, where you could see them.  The actual build has 1,500 Durability, 5 times that.

Then just click on the Assembled vehicle's characteristic, click on item's list press print key, and drap n drop your capture from C:\Users\Username\Documents\My Games\Crossout\screenshots to you post. I showed you this trick before on the beginning of this thread. Like this

214665591_screenshot-200606-233852(27342

All the information are there, and if you want just a part of the screen just press maj + windows-key + s and select the part of the screen you want to add.

32 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:
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Joules need speed, but incinerators need to be quite still to aim. 

No, they don't.  I can drive around with the button held down, and just launch it whenever's clever.  

Joule and incinerators have a different perk and way of functioning and it doesn't mix well. You can say that you manage but it won't convince me that it is the best combination we can find for raids. Right now I have a sub 6000 PS build costing around 800 c that score champions patch 3/4 of the time, the bar is already high since I started searching the perfect raid build on March, and you are clearly oriented aesthetic, or action melee build, fun-builds, while I'm looking for a farming build that use our daily fuel to get the most resources from it while investing as little as possible. 


You and I aren't looking for the same thing and it's fine. FYI lately you post more your builds into this thread rather than really commenting the work I'm doing since 4 months. I like you, all help is welcome, everybody's opinion and build is welcome, and I appreciate your support since I started this topic, but what you like is to talk about your badass looking builds. It's ok sometimes, that's not what the topic is about.

Edited by Charlie9204

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25 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

You can say that you manage but it won't convince me that it is the best combination we can find for raids.

I didn't say that i "Manage."  It's a versatile weapon set, that compliments each other.  What I said was to try it, but you'd rather just tell me I'm wrong, look at the pictures, scan over the text that explains them, then tell me what I'm saying.  (Which isn't what I'm saying.)

There is no best combination for all Hard Raids.  I said that, several times already.  Perimeter Defense is not the same on Bridge, Crater, Fortress, nor Rock City.  Different setups will work better on some maps than other, regardless of game mode, and even the enemies change that.  Lunatics is a fdifferent fight from Nomads, and if you put your gun tower on top of your cabin, the Retcer will wreck it there.  

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FYI lately you post more your builds into this thread rather than really commenting the work I'm doing since 4 months. 

I'm sorry.  I thought you wanted ideas, and contributions.  If you'd rather I go back to critiqueing your builds, I can do that, but honestly, I think it's rude.  

screenshot-200606-233852(27 3 42).jpg

That looks like a Tusk charger, to me.  It doesn't have to be an Art build, but at the end of the day, I polish my rides so I can stand the sight of them, because I'm the one that has to look at them.  That's obviously not a priority for you any more.

That gun on top of the growl is going to get shot off by Lunatic buggies, Firebugs, Crickets, and Nomad Retcher bruisers aiming at your cabin.  You might be okay against Scavengers.  (You can shoot down the Pyres.)

Enjoy your thread, peace.

Edited by psiberzerker
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Oh yeah, I forgot something:

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It doesn't strafe, but in leg mode, you get half the perk^ trying to.  If you limit yourself to double-taps, you can manage the heat without a Cooler, or Radiator.  (A Shiver would still make it better.)

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28 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

There is no best combination for all Hard Raids. 

There is good combinations for all raids. machine guns + radiators, on wheels, it's a good combo for raid. but incinerators don't match escorts raids and and joules need to run around to use perk and incinerators need some aiming and both aren't going together, that's it. And it's a common mistake to want to be versatile, because you will be mediocre on several situation rather than being efficient in one strategy.

The build I pasted has a temporary paint, it's not finished yet and the capture was for example. It's not a specially pretty build, I'll work on that later.

The sinus on the Growl hold well, retchers aren't a problem for now (but they are a thread for most builds, luckily we don't see them too much). Just look at the last 3-4 days scoreboard captures to see that I'm first in most of the raids I did lately, the results speak for themselves.

Beside, I opted for another strategy than before : I am now focusing on firepower/PS ratio, rather than excessive durability. Basically it's a seal-club kind-of build for raids, and it works pretty well so far.  

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8 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

Incinerators don't match escorts raids

Yeah, I pretty much avoid them, not really worth the time, nor Fuel for the Hard ones.  Kinda break even on the Normal Plastic ones, if I'm grinding the weeklies, but that's hard to say with the current market.  I'm saving my Mats, unless there's an up-tick in Value I can take advantage of.

8 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

It's a common mistake to want to be versatile, because you will be mediocre on several situation rather than being efficient in one strategy.

Typically.  It can be done, but it isn't easy.  Just slapping as many MGs as you have the Energy for (Seals have the same Perk) is a lot easier.

8 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

The build I pasted has a temporary paint, it's not finished yet.

Yeah, i saw the empty wheel well.  Kinda gave that away.  i know how to do that, but I thought I'd do something different, just to keep it interesting.  My Mistake leaving the Wheels/Legs on.  Those bloated the power Score when the point was showing the options you had.  Especially in the wheels.

8 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

Beside, I opted for another strategy than before : I am now focusing on firepower/PS ratio, rather than excessive durability.

Durability only works so far.  As long as you're not getting destroyed, any extra is basically a waste of Weight.  (I don't care about PS, but that too.)  Firepower is what wins fights.  Armor just keeps you from losing.

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Gone in two minutes is a good hard escort raid for resources because it's a long one like frontier defense. It's not always an easy one though.

Nobody said a good strategy should be difficult.

The build I'm working on has only 3 wheels for now, mainly to limit power reduction.

Looks like we are agree that we should only have the durability we need, not much more. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

Nobody said a good strategy should be difficult.

I sure didn't.  However, it can be.  Mixing weapons so they work together is difficult, but it pays off, if you can.

As requested:

DEED778815528D831A336D585DD9EFD156C1CEF3I know, it's not "Efficient" but I had to kill 2 more Scavenger Leaders for a Event Challenge, and that's the one that came up Scavengers (That's worth the Fuel)

You get a lot of points roasting everyone en-mass.  The Executioner Tanks blow up, when their Ammo goes, in fact most of the Bruisers do.  (Same with Retchers for Nomads)  

That's what the Incinerator does, it's basically Fire-and-Forget, and a Force multiplier so everyone does more damage.  It works, it's not "The Best Hard raid Build" the game has ever seen, but I never claimed it to be.

It works.

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Good job ! That's what I like to see, some Champion patches showing you have been the best of the raid. That and the deserved rewards. Tell me how frequent they come and we'll speak the same language.

I did the same raid as you before this post, and I didn't perform as well as you - I don't have the Champion nor the Nerve of Steel patch, which mean I died at least once and I'm not first (second in this raid)

Spoiler

222414190_screenshot-200607-025212(16231

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I have 17 plastic which would translate as 25 with premium, and you have 28 plastic. However I invested less resources in my build (around 800 c) than you did in yours (8 epic items including pack-exclusive  weapons Joule). The build I'm working on only needs lvl 5-6 basic factions parts and some common/rare/special items, making the build accessible early in the game, and with some paints and stickers It'll be more attractive hopefully.

 

56 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

it's not "The Best Hard raid Build" the game has ever seen, but I never claimed it to be.

It works.

I agree, and I admit Joule-incinerators work better than I thought !

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4 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

Tell me how frequent they come and we'll speak the same language.

That was just the first raid of the night.  I didn't bother screencapping the second.  Playing to max out Patches, not Score, to clear daily Challenges as efficiently as possible.  (You know, get 5 patches, do a Mission, get more patches...  I get more Patches in Raids.)

4 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

I agree, and I admit Joule-incinerators work better than I thought !

There's a learning curve.  It's not easy, but once you get the Rhythm down, it really pays off.  If you're going for Damage/Power Score, that's about as good as it gets.  

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Good ! Well, the goal is to get the most resources for the least investments. So damage/Powerscore isn't really the concern. Beside one joule is almost twice the PS as 2 Sinus and you have a incinerator, while I also get those Champion patches regularly with only 4x special weapons.

It's more the ratio score/PS that is important : the higher score you get for the smaller PS, the better it is. Because low PS means cheap and accessible build. 

About the build, I think it's almost finished. Last adjustments were regarding my fused Growl (+20% power, +10% durability) that I replaced with a non-fused one : the acceleration was too slow, so I adjusted the armor and removed some wheels in order to reduce power reduction and make it lighter, while keeping stability of course.

As co-pilot I'm using masterjack lvl 9, giving damage + 3% for machine guns, since it's a versatile copilot I'll assume most of the players will have it upgraded at least once from level 5. 

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7 hours ago, Charlie9204 said:

So damage/Powerscore isn't really the concern.  It's more the ratio score/PS that is important : the higher score you get for the smaller PS, the better it is. Because low PS means cheap and accessible build. 

Yeah, I kinda skipped on the Accessible part.  Damage is directly applied to how you get your Point Score, because you get points for kills, parts damaged, and of course objectives (like Generators, and Winning the Raid.)  Power Score is just what you spend on Weapons, to deal Damage, to get Points, for the win, to gain Resources.

However, it's how the damage is applied that makes it effective.  The Fire Puddles damage everyone in a wave (If you place it right) while the Joule has explosive damage, compared with say Sinus, which is a Hit-scan.  So, each "Bullet" does X amount of damage, and can break parts/destroy the target.

Your points score depends on your Performance, and there's 3 other guys also performing, which can overshadow you.  I find that incinerator in particular gets the points all on it's own.  The Joules are just a side-arm, so I can shoot out wheels (So those buggies don't drive out of the AoE) and degun bruisers so they don't destroy me, or the objective.  Honestly, you can do it with Chords, if Power Score is that much of an issue.

However, you have to tilt the body at least somewhat, to have the best placement for the Incinerator.  That's what does the bulk of the work, and with a good enough Body Tilt, you can drop it right in front of you.  Just to demonstrate, i'm going to make a Chord build,and see how the Power Score/Points Score ratio come out, but I only have enough Fuel for 1 Normal Raid.  So, that will affect the final score.

7 hours ago, Charlie9204 said:

The acceleration was too slow, so I adjusted the armor and removed some wheels in order to reduce power reduction and make it lighter, while keeping stability of course.

As co-pilot I'm using masterjack lvl 9, giving damage + 3% for machine guns, since it's a versatile copilot I'll assume most of the players will have it upgraded at least once from level 5. 

Growl isn't very powerful, it just has 11 Energy.  You're probably better off with Quantum, but a Hot Red could help you there too.  In most raids, Acceleration is better than raw top Speed, because you don't drive around at Top Speed most of the time.  I got away with Meat grinders for a long time, because Photon had enough Power to get me up to speed, and those aren't exactly high performance movement parts.  (However, the abilities to Strafe, and especially circle-strafe are extremely useful.  Especially for playing Line-of-Site with the more powerful enemies.)

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Epics items are more expensive, are accessible further in the game, take more time to get back the invested coins, and aren't necessary to get good scores.

4x sinus are more competitive at 6000 PS than at 8000 PS, same for all weapons: the lower the build's PS, the more competitive this weapon is in the ps bracket. So we want the lowest PS we can comfortably raid with.

Growl is the most popular and best rare cabin just because it has 11 energy points. For the cons (tonnage, mass limit) we can just build accordingly and so far it's enough.

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2 hours ago, Charlie9204 said:

Epics items are more expensive, are accessible further in the game, take more time to get back the invested coins, and aren't necessary to get good scores.

However, that being said, 1 Incinerator vastly improves your scores.  More than any other weapons (Except Porcupines.)  If you're getting to the Epic level, and still want to grind Raids for more, I can't recommend Incinerator enough.

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2 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

However, that being said, 1 Incinerator vastly improves your scores.  More than any other weapons (Except Porcupines.)  If you're getting to the Epic level, and still want to grind Raids for more, I can't recommend Incinerator enough.

On the previous same raid you got 1117 points and 28 plastic with premium, I got 998 points and 17 (25 plastic with premium). That's 19 points and 3 plastic difference.

But your build cost more than 3000 coins while the one I'm working on cost 800 c.

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6 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

However, that being said, 1 Incinerator vastly improves your scores.  More than any other weapons (Except Porcupines.)  If you're getting to the Epic level, and still want to grind Raids for more, I can't recommend Incinerator enough.

Wrong.

I know you are obsessed by incinerator at the moment. 1. Incinerator is Epic and expensive for cheap raid builds. 2. There are lots builds with epics that outscore your build, Impulse for example. 3. Score is for biggest part result of player input.

1100 score is not that great, not bad, but not proving incinerator is so good.

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8 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

But your build cost more than 3000 coins while the one I'm working on cost 800 c.

Yeah,

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That was a really good estimate!  However, a lot of that cost went into things that don't really give a lot of benefit.  For example, the Joules are one of the most expensive Epics, because they're a Pack Exclusive.  

However:

301872ADA58693CD6D1AE4DB4B62F00E3681E038

It doesn't have to be Joules.  I'm going to make you a Budget build, with Incinerator, and accessible parts, but honestly.  At some point, players are going to move on from Special to Epic.  That's just a simple parts progression, and what do they need the Electronics for?  To craft Specials?

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9325 PS? You can run a Harpy with 2 Retchers at that PS and score easily + 1500 scores

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2 minutes ago, Mingda said:

9325 PS? You can run a Harpy with 2 Retchers at that PS and score easily + 1500 scores

Of course, and Retchers are extremely effective when there's Fire Puddles down.  I didn't, but this thing you're doing.  Calling me names, and trying to invalidate me, so nobody pays attention to my points.  It's been tried before.  Get in line, lots of players have tried that before, 3, and 4 at a time.  They failed, too.

Now, would you like to talk about Raids?  This thread isn't about me.

Edited by psiberzerker
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21 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Of course, and Retchers are extremely effective when there's Fire Puddles down.  I didn't, but this thing you're doing.  Calling me names, and trying to invalidate me, so nobody pays attention to my points.  It's been tried before.  Get in line, lots of players have tried that before, 3, and 4 at a time.  They failed, too.

Now, would you like to talk about Raids?  This thread isn't about me.

Calling you names? Dunno, why should I?

But ok raids: Did a quick plastic raid for you.

Cheap build, that does about same score as you, and without decent co-pilot

554828718_screenshot-200608-160408(24340627997580_screenshot-200608-160338(3019-

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43 minutes ago, Mingda said:

Cheap build, that does about same score as you, and without decent co-pilot.

What co-pilot?  That's some important information, for people reading this because they're struggling with hard Raids.  Looks like Perseus could make a difference here.

Now, as promised, the Budget Build:

04BDD7C3C617A6E6634D7900A458E589BFC156F2

42353B4074924ADF8A029DD937B683D944C158B8

The Power Score can come down even more if you use Large (Tractor) wheels instead of Bigfoot.  I'm just using what i have in my garage, and 2 Chords, to save coins for my Apollo.  Since I have some Fuel, I'm going to test this on Hard Raids (What this discussion is about) and get you some screencaps...

Edit:  Jesus, these Firestarters are Hard!  I love it, but there's going to have to be a major re-think, and rebuild to test anything against them.  They have Porcupines, and Firebugs on the same ride!  Hard raids just got a lot more interesting...

Edited by psiberzerker

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32 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

What co-pilot?  That's some important information, for people reading this because they're struggling with hard Raids.  Looks like Perseus could make a difference here.

Master Jack, this account is only 3 weeks old :)

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@psiberzerker your build is around 1500 coins, you must have fused stuff. Your build isn't 700 c, so it's not budget.

Mingda s copilot seems to be masterjack lvl 8 and that cost a bit more than a rare and half item, I'd say 40-50 c

@Mingda thanks for your valuable input ! Your build but 5000 PS would be great to pass the hard raid requirement, other than that I think you nailed it it's even cheaper than mine.

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3 minutes ago, Mingda said:

Master Jack, this account is only 3 weeks old :)

Thanks.  What level?  Bulldog gets you +500 Mass Limit to Growl.  (Master jack to any Cabin.)  However, that's almost exclusively Melee/Shotgun bonus.  MJ is of course the best all around, but he's not a Bad co-pilot for just about anything.  Perseus, and Jade are the only 2 I have fully leveled.  (Working on Hans for Durability, and + Top Speed for Cohort.  I'm going to make a Support tank, but he's not very far along.)  Let's just eliminate Co-Pilots from the equation, because it's already needlessly complicated.

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13 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Thanks.  What level?  Bulldog gets you +500 Mass Limit to Growl.  (Master jack to any Cabin.)  However, that's almost exclusively Melee/Shotgun bonus.  MJ is of course the best all around, but he's not a Bad co-pilot for just about anything.  Perseus, and Jade are the only 2 I have fully leveled.  (Working on Hans for Durability, and + Top Speed for Cohort.  I'm going to make a Support tank, but he's not very far along.)  Let's just eliminate Co-Pilots from the equation, because it's already needlessly complicated.

Ok, hard raid, again quick and dirty conversion from build to 5k +. You see the price of that thing, without decor below 500c.

633913425_screenshot-200608-171333(234401479141012_screenshot-200608-171254(-848

Edited by Mingda
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