VisceraCleaner

This is why Phoenix sucks.

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Even Cricket can easily remove the bolt attached on own body!
I threw 4 times! One on its weapon, one on its cabin, and two on its front. WTF? It seems physical model of Phoenix bolt is unreasonably big. 

Also, i really like movement of Drone brawl. It is really smooth.
But i can't understand why Fuze drone from Werewolf is too slippery as if it is on the ice. (Also, AI of drones is so terrible.)

Edited by VisceraCleaner
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I just wanted to buy it,  because I liked it in the drone brawl. So I probably shouldn't? :unsure:

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The pheonix sucks? How?

2 hours ago, VisceraCleaner said:

Even Cricket can easily remove the bolt attached on own body!

It was aiming downwards when you shot at the cabin (You can see the rockets go near enough even.), it's not as if the pheonix bolt can't be removed by projectile weapons.

2 hours ago, VisceraCleaner said:

I threw 4 times! One on its weapon, one on its cabin, and two on its front. WTF? It seems physical model of Phoenix bolt is unreasonably big. 

You shot 3 bolts where they were easily removed, only one of those 4 was due to the large hitbox of projectiles.

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One of the things I like about the Phoenix, one actually has to think a bit of where they want their shots to land to minimize the chances of them getting shot off. Triple phoenix (fused for blast radius) on harpy can hit up to ~2.3k normal structure damage while it can hit around ~1.6-1.7k with other cabins, with perfect accuracy regardless of speed.   For some perspective, each bolt does 178 damage in a 2.8m blast radius. (Roughly 3.08 if fused)

1877198347_screenshot-200329-121426(43-4

If the bolts were difficult to shoot off, they wouldn't really be balanced.

 

Edited by Steel_Artist
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Phoenix is not just an very interesting weapon concept but also has some not so obvious advantages:

  • Difficult to see projectile and firing source. Cannons have enormous, thundering muzzle flashes with a glowing shell rapidly approaching your position. Plasma cannons fire glowing brightly illuminated slow moving plasma balls at you. Phoenix..... is very easy to overlook.... and the delay makes tracking the firing vehicle even more difficult. Sometimes you only realize that you got hit when it explodes.
  • Large explosive radius. Those things hurt....
  • Psychological warfare: An executioner shell is not pleasant but at least it is over by then. Much better than watching in horror at the burning fuse next to your fuel tank.
  • Generous ammo capacity
  • Of course there are some drawbacks: Balistics take some time to learn. Huge weapons attracts a lot of enemy fire. Can be stopped from exploding. Grants the enemy time to return the favour...

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Pheonix is one of the worst weapons in the game because of its timed fuse and painfully slow reload. The combination of those two together makes it only good at long/mid range fighting. Once somebody gets close to you theres such a long pause between you being able to do damage that people will strip your guns off or kill you before you can even get 2 or 3 shots off. They are also gigantic weapons making them hard to protect, and can easily be shot off from far away.

And good luck fighting drones with them.

 

Edited by Crunk_Prime
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2 hours ago, Crunk_Prime said:

Pheonix is one of the worst weapons in the game because of its timed fuse and painfully slow reload. The combination of those two together makes it only good at long/mid range fighting. Once somebody gets close to you theres such a long pause between you being able to do damage that people will strip your guns off or kill you before you can even get 2 or 3 shots off. They are also gigantic weapons making them hard to protect, and can easily be shot off from far away.

And good luck fighting drones with them.

 

 

There's a reason that they have a delayed detonation with long reload times and if armored properly, people getting close isn't that big of a deal unless they start hugging the build, but in that case its due to the build itself, not the weapons.

My harpy phoenix build for example can still attack people right up on me (Small track's reverse speed also helps), but my echo build that uses bigrams? Not so much.

 

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They might become vaguely interesting now that Exec's been nerfed. Because lets be honest, before that I kinda failed to see the point lol. RN, having full blast damage, they're probably the strongest explosive epic in the game alongside Crickets in terms of dmg/volley.

Edited by Clebardman

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5 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

They might become vaguely interesting now that Exec's been nerfed. Because lets be honest, before that I kinda failed to see the point lol. RN, having full blast damage, they're probably the strongest explosive epic in the game alongside Crickets in terms of dmg/volley.

With Harpy they  hit harder than executioners last patch. Now there is no comparison. Also they are so cheap to fuse you can really go to town there.

Reduced Mass and increased flight time is amazing for these. Whatever damage buff u like.

Edited by UnassumingNoob

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Yes, pheonix is the best. I somewhat agree with op, the bolts are too big. especially shotgunners take them off of their own builds too easily. It should be a team effort to shoot bolts.

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Hello,

I think the size of the Phoenix is too big and it is too heavy for its durability :

 - Phoenix 380hp, 1012kg, 8x8x5=320 volume -> 0.37hp/kg, 1.2hp/vol

 - Fatman : 830hp, 1215kg, 8x8x3=192 volume -> 0.68hp/kg, 4.32hp/vol

 - Quasar : 597hp, 792kg, 6x10x4=240 volume -> 0.75hp/kg, 2.48hp/vol

 - Whirlwind : 420hp, 486kg, 4x8x5=140 volume -> 0.86hp/kg, 3hp/vol

 - Prometheus : 185hp, 200kg, 4x4x7=112volume -> 0.92hp/kg, 1.65hp/vol

 

Personally I dont like them for PvP as they are shot off too easily.

 

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Phoenix is one of the most enjoyable epics, imo. Certainly one of the most ps efficient. With 2, there is no need for generator on a purple cabin. Turreted long range for only 5 energy. With hovers or Small tracks on Harpy, you can use a skeleton build. With some practice, you can snipe well with them too. Shots can often be lobbed over obstacles. Damage is really good. Big hitbox on weapon avoids cabin damage. Generous ammo reserve. One blue ammo box is usually enough, at least on Harpy.

The delayed explosion and the possibility of being shot off is what keeps this weapon balanced.

Edited by *Jomar_SL
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The delayed explosion was my main dislike at first as I was used to spikes and instant gratification of landing shots, it's now my favourite thing about the weapon. 

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6 hours ago, JCDG said:

Hello,

I think the size of the Phoenix is too big and it is too heavy for its durability :

 - Phoenix 380hp, 1012kg, 8x8x5=320 volume -> 0.37hp/kg, 1.2hp/vol

 

Personally I dont like them for PvP as they are shot off too easily.

 

Don't just slap them on and you'll find that this isn't that much of a problem. The weapons can be armored moderately well.

This is what they're capable of when they are built around properly.

screenshot-181016-115817.thumb.jpg.d1cc0  1413513440_screenshot-200406-185517(1761

 I've found that the small trainplows are the optimal armor for them as they cover a large amount of the weapon (following the diagonal arms perfectly) while maintain acceptable firing angles.

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2 minutes ago, Steel_Artist said:

  1413513440_screenshot-200406-185517(1761

 I've found that the small trainplows are the optimal armor for them as they cover a large amount of the weapon (following the diagonal arms perfectly) while maintain acceptable firing angles.

From the front, at that ride height.  Not too many players running Tower builds in PvP (And those towers are easily shot off, along with their guns.)  Hovers are lower, and ML-200s are easilly out-maneuvered in Wheel Mode.  

However, it's not so much the pieces you put in front of them as the Angle of Attack.  If you have the High Ground, than you can leave them exposed from top-attacks to a degree, but I still lose guns to Flutes a lot recently, because they like to shoot them up, for maximum hang-time to boost the Perk damage.

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The biggest issue with Phoenix is that there's no reason to pick them over crickets. The delayed explosive nature also means that you have no defense when you get rushed. At least a skilled cricket player can dump 15 rockets into someone's face if they get rushed. At range, the crickets do more damage. When building, you have a lot more mass for armoring with crickets. 

 

There's literally no good reason to pick the Phoenix over the crickets except for the uniqueness and trivial fun of it. 

IMO, there is no tactical advantage in having a delayed explosion especially when the arrows can be shot off easily. 

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9 hours ago, psiberzerker said:

However, it's not so much the pieces you put in front of them as the Angle of Attack.  If you have the High Ground, than you can leave them exposed from top-attacks to a degree, but I still lose guns to Flutes a lot recently, because they like to shoot them up, for maximum hang-time to boost the Perk damage.

It's both.

 

9 hours ago, not_trisa133 said:

The biggest issue with Phoenix is that there's no reason to pick them over crickets. The delayed explosive nature also means that you have no defense when you get rushed. At least a skilled cricket player can dump 15 rockets into someone's face if they get rushed. At range, the crickets do more damage. When building, you have a lot more mass for armoring with crickets. 

 

There's literally no good reason to pick the Phoenix over the crickets except for the uniqueness and trivial fun of it. 

IMO, there is no tactical advantage in having a delayed explosion especially when the arrows can be shot off easily. 

Precision.

Unlike crickets, phoenix are not dependent on rng while still being capable of hitting 1.7k+. Their damage is entirely dependent on one's aim  as they have no accuracy penalties nor any shot spread regardless of how fast one is moving. Meanwhile crickets will always have spread even with torero and jade. On long range cricket shots, I rarely have more then 2-3  rockets hit me, even when I'm using a slow, large build.

The delayed explosion isn't about providing a tactical advantage. It's there for balance reasons.

1244617559_screenshot-200329-121426(43-4 365215694_screenshot-200213-142724(9055-

 

 

Edited by Steel_Artist
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I think the delay on Phoenix opens up unique quirks that only a dedicated user could leverage. I've never actually used them, but I'd imagine they synergize well with friendly fuzes and melees, maybe even Sputniks. What other weapon can be shot at ground to blow someone's undercarriage? Gotta think outside the box ppl

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7 minutes ago, *j2eaLish said:

I think the delay on Phoenix opens up unique quirks that only a dedicated user could leverage. I've never actually used them, but I'd imagine they synergize well with friendly fuzes and melees, maybe even Sputniks. What other weapon can be shot at ground to blow someone's undercarriage? Gotta think outside the box ppl

I personally like to use them as timed "mines", fire at the ground in front a players path, and when they drive over them for those that have gennie undermounted, BOOM!

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3 hours ago, *j2eaLish said:

What other weapon can be shot at ground to blow someone's undercarriage? Gotta think outside the box ppl

I've certainly had that happen quite a few times.

When one is busy fighting, they're probably not going to think about "Phoenix bolts landed behind me, better not reverse"..they're going to most likely either forget about it or not notice them at all. 

Using them  this way isn't  that practical ( usually best to shoot them directly) but does has it's niche applications.

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