bkgmjo

Raid Reward Calculation

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Figured I would separate this, so...

Note: all divisions are integer divisions, meaning they will be rounded down. a 5.3 is a 5.

1. Raid score determines how much you get out of it, divide your score by a constant and you have the rewards. The constants are roughly (haven't done precise measurement yet and it keeps changing on many updates anyways):
Easy Raids: 40
Medium Copper: 15
Plastic: 28
Hard Copper: 5
Electronics: 80

Which means by scoring 1000 points in a hard copper raid, you would get 1000/5=200 copper out of it. 300 with premium.


2. Score is gained by

Killing red bots: 10
Killing purple bots: 20
Killing bosses: (depends on raid)
Destroying other targets: varies, not much
Minor task completion, like activating a generator, building a turret: 5
Major task completion: 250-300, depending on raid. This would be finishing guarding a tower, killing a boss etc
Daily quests: Say you have a shotgun mission and kill/assist in a kill of something with a shotgun, you get 5 extra score. (I am not perfectly sure about the mechanics here, the number of daily tasks I have to test is somewhat limited)


3. Now those would be the scores you get for doing it all by yourself, but you have teammates, which means score gets split up.

The total score a kill gives is divided by how much damage each player did to it. Say a red bot has 1000 HP and every player (all at 5000 PS) did 250 damage, they all would get 10/(1000/250=4)=2.5 points. But, since this is an integer division, everyone would get 2 points. The last 2 points just vanish from the game. (Damage dealt by turrets/truck is ignored, it doesn't influence anything, unless the turret/truck was the only one to deal damage and kill)
Scores for minor tasks can only be collected by one player.
Scores for major tasks are fixed and given out to every player that did anything valuable to support the cause. Valuable means dealing enough damage or killing enemies.
Boss kills are a mix of major tasks and a kill, so everyone gets a fixed amount, plus extra points divided by damage dealt.


4. Exploiting and Optimizing

Ya ya, what you are here for.

Optimisation 1: Being the only one to shoot at a bot will give the maximum amount of score from it. Playing in a group, it might be good for all to assign targets for each player to avoid the loss of points due to integer division. In turret defence games this can be done by giving each player one entry point or similar. Speed and the number of raids/hour might be more valuable than a maxed out score, though.

Optimisation 2: Determine which raid is the currently most profitable and finish your daily tasks there. Be careful with hard raids, though. Shotguns and cannons might cause you to lose it, which is not exactly beneficial to your reward.

Optimisation 3: Less players reduces the number of red bots, the purple ones stay. Splitting purple bot scores between 2 players gives more than between 4 plus the red bot scores. Means: Less players in a raid is good for all. Set your region to the moon or something, if you can handle the lag.

Optimisation 4: Avoid pure support tools. Traps, Shields, Harpoons, Aurora-only and similar might really help your team and finish the raid faster or safer, but you will get very little score for it. Maxwell and Doppler in theory also waste points you could have used for raw firepower, but the benefit often outweighs the cost. Of course, you can also hope a teammate brings one and steal their points.

Optimisation 5: Firepower and Speed above armour. Tanking doesn't give you any score, destroy the enemy before it reaches you.

Exploit 1: Block other players and kill alone. This is best done with porcs, rockets, cannons and other high damage weapons. A cloaking device ensures that while you get the kills and points, the bots fire at your teammates. This might be somewhat risky in a hard raid, but in medium raids you can easily leech off your team and steal their points that way. MG/Cannon/Wasp-Hovers, spiders and Porcs thrown in the way of your team are excellent choices to prevent your team from driving and shooting at the enemy.

Exploit 2: Score is separated by raw damage dealt, but hitpoints of bots differ for each player. A higher PS player has to do more damage to kill a bot than a lower PS one. So, say 2 players both did 50% damage to the bot's total health, but for one that meant doing 300, for the other 600, score would be divided by a ratio of 1:2. For a red bot that would be 3 points for the low PS player, 6 for the high PS player. Since bots hardly become stronger with higher PS now, using the strongest weapons you have available will yield the highest score, provided you are actually able to use them as well as the weaker ones. Again, this means high tier weapons, especially Porcupines and Arbiters, are perfect pay2win methods to steal points from your team and benefit the most from their effort. I have yet to test Punishers, anyone willing to donate a few? :P

Exploit 3: Splash damage is more damage than precision damage, even if in completely useless ways. There might be someone who disarms, removes tires of melee bots, shoots off all the drones and the like, the player who hits the now helpless and disarmed bot with a highly explosive weapon gets more score. Again, Porcupine is the optimum method for this, you will get all the points your team worked for and you don't even need to aim, just throw that stuff around everywhere. Cannons and rockets also work to finish off disarmed bots, as they stop evading and often just sit there. Incinerator might give the impression to also be good for this, but skilled teammates will use the heat bonus and kill the enemy, before the fire does too much damage. However, if you have very unskilled ones that take long for a kill and can keep the bots inside the fire, scores will be great, or you lose the raid.

 

Finally, have fun hunting, exploiting, bitching at exploiters and stay safe. I might collect data on how much score is possible on each raid soon, or not. We will see. Let me know if you find any additional info or mistakes.

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Great guide, just a couple points:

30 minutes ago, bkgmjo said:

Shotguns and cannons might cause you to lose it, which is not exactly beneficial to your reward.

Cannons are better for Missions/PvP.  Also help with Leviathans.  On Shotgun Day, I tack on 1 Goblin, and add it to my array of Hatchets et al.  It's only 2 Energy, but it's a shotgun, so it counts for those dailies.  (It's also useful as a Gun Mount/Armor spacer, because of it's Damage Passthrough perk, and length)

30 minutes ago, bkgmjo said:

In turret defence games this can be done by giving each player one entry point or similar.

This depends on the Map.  For instance, on Rock City, there's too many lanes of attack, and a wide open area.  Also, when they come over the bridges, they split up.  Some jump off the bridge, and come from the Tunnel lane.  The heavy weapons ones (With a purple crosshair) hang back to shoot at long range...

On any map, they all tend to come from 1 direction, and you can't expect 3 other guys to just hang back, watching while you solo each wave.  INS this is even efficient for everyone.  Ideally, all 4 players get a lot of points, and you don't do that by sitting out a wave.

Quote

Optimisation 4: Avoid pure support tools. Traps, Shields, Harpoons, Aurora-only and similar might really help your team and finish the raid faster or safer, but you will get very little score for it. Maxwell and Doppler in theory also waste points you could have used for raw firepower, but the benefit often outweighs the cost. Of course, you can also hope a teammate brings one and steal their points.

If you're running a Team, you can distribute the Support Modules.  Leave Cloak at home, it doesn't really help you.  Barrier Ix only for Static Defense missions.  On Escort, the truck doesn't stay inside the AOE long enough to really benefit, and he turret itself can get in the way.

Don't bring Turrets, and Wheeled Drones.  They get in the way of your team-mates.  Areal Drones are fine, and Hawks are pretty efficient for Power Score.  You can have up to 5 of them, and you don't have to use Gun Mounts/Buggy Floors to build a Tower.  Instead, you can armor around your Cabin, and the Launchers.

Quote

Optimisation 5: Firepower and Speed above armour. Tanking doesn't give you any score, destroy the enemy before it reaches you.

Enough Armor.  Also, a low Power Score is more important than more Armor.  Decor is nice, only if you're trying to get Rep, but at most a Flag.  You get more bang for your buck out of that than a bunch of little bits, and pieces that give you nothing more than a little Rep.

Edited by psiberzerker

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A separate point about the One-Shot, and Like Clockwork badges:

Melee Weapons don't count for One-shot.  Passive Melee (Hatchets, Blade-wings, and Pipe-tooth) does.  I think it's because Melee DPS counts as a bunch of little attacks, like shotguns, while ramming does all the damage at once.  Also, they don't cost Energy, so one thing that I do is load up my front bumper to ram packs, knocking them over, and also getting multiples of these 2 badges. 

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Also, those^ 3 bumpers have high Power Score, but also Durability/Weight ratios, and good Damage, for having absolutely no cost.  When you 1 shot 3, or more red weenies, your team-mates pretty much don't get a chance to damage them, so you also max out on damage dealt points, too.  (As a side-note:  Listener+a Radio costs 0 Energy, but has most of the advantages of Maxwell)

This technique works with Any weapons.  Machineguns are great, because they efficiently degun, and DPS (For the Power Score) and track fast enough to follow fast moving buggies, even as you bulldoze through packs.  Especially effective for Escort missions through narrow passes with lots of curves.  Once you get used to the spawn patterns, you can catch them right at the corner, and cause a pile-up.  They rarely even get a shot off on the Truck itself, once you master the technique.  Focus the Bruisers (Purple enemies) as much as you can.

Edited by psiberzerker

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Exploit #4: Take a back seat. Let the sweaty, try hard exploiters do all the work. Hang out by the tower or truck, get a couple hits on a purple bot in each wave and on the boss(es). Get half the points and half the (piddly) rewards for your time. But eat, drink and be merry while someone else earns you your badges.

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11 hours ago, Rico_MJ said:

Exploit #4: Take a back seat. Let the sweaty, try hard exploiters do all the work. Hang out by the tower or truck, get a couple hits on a purple bot in each wave and on the boss(es). Get half the points and half the (piddly) rewards for your time. But eat, drink and be merry while someone else earns you your badges.

In hard raids? Or just medium?

 

Players treat points per min as THE parameter but also total time is a big deal as once you earn badges for a category there is no point doing more of that raid.

Edited by Firedrizzle

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Very interesting post ! A lot of good informations.

@bkgmjo Couple of questions: 

  1. How did you get those informations ? Just by exploiting the combat.log of raids ?
  2. Can you clarify Exploit 2 ? Doesn't a single bot have the same HP pool for all players of the same raid ? I'm not sure I understand this part.
  3. What do you think is the best rare and special weapon on a hard raid ?
  4. What do you think is the best PS range to play on overall, and for rare/special weapons carriers?

Thanks again ! 

Edited by Charlie9204

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2 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

Doesn't a single bot have the same HP pool for all players of the same raid?

No, it's been tested.  Each player has to deal different amounts of damage, depending on their Power Score.

4 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

What do you think is the best PS range to play on overall, and for rare/special weapons carriers?

It doesn't have to be precise, but 5999 is the most efficient.  One less Air Intake isn't going to make a significant difference, unless it pushes you over 6,000.

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39 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

Very interesting post ! A lot of good informations.

@bkgmjo Couple of questions: 

  1. How did you get those informations ? Just by exploiting the combat.log of raids ?
  2. Can you clarify Exploit 2 ? Doesn't a single bot have the same HP pool for all players of the same raid ? I'm not sure I understand this part.
  3. What do you think is the best rare and special weapon on a hard raid ?
  4. What do you think is the best PS range to play on overall, and for rare/special weapons carriers?

Thanks again ! 

1. Log and during the raid you can see those white numbers popping up.

2. It used to be that way, with all bots scaled to the highest PS player, but since xmas last year imagine every bot gets a multiplier depending on the player's PS when taking damage. Say... it's cannon has 100 HP in a hard raid, using a 5000-5999 PS car you need to deal 100 dmg to it to destroy it. If your car has 6000-6999 PS, you would already need to deal 120 damage. If you do 60, it will be 50% damaged. The other lower PS players still only need to do 50 damage now. But your score would be compared in 50 vs 60 dmg, not 50% vs 50%. I would not recommend playing the game by exploits, though. I only add them so people can spot when other players are trying to f... them over by dirty methods.

3. Depends on your skills and experience, but in my experience Vector/Sinus lets you almost win the raid alone. Disarm heavy enemies first, focus on the cabins of light ones. Stand still while firing (very important!) and use a brain to prioritize targets. Teams with 4x4 MG players usually finish the raid really fast, only boosted by one of them using an incinerator. Upgraded Vectors (for reduced spread + increased dmg) are better than Sinus, until you can afford to upgrade those as well. Add to it one R2-Chill radiator (fuse it as soon as possible, that makes it as strong as a standard Seal)

4. For raids that depends on what equipment you have. The higher your PS, the stronger the bots become for you. However, the rate at which they become stronger has been drastically lowered recently. So, unless you artificially pump up your PS and increase it due to strong weapons (which you can actually handle and which deal more damage than your "weaker" ones) you are good to go. Maxwell/Doppler is highly recommended. You can stay in the <6000 PS range forever, though. Works totally fine and you don't run the risk of running into too many very high PS players, who mostly bring absolute nonsense to raids and don't help at all or have their 5xPorc hovers, block their entire team from attacking and pretty much ruin the raid for everyone else.

If you want to play Invasion, start small, work your way up with experience.

If "overall" means PVP as well… play where you like to play. Personally, I like the type of battles on 2-4k most, 6-7k has the lowest waiting times, 8-11k is usually full of people who spend lots of money on the game, but lack experience. If you are good, you can easily score here. As a newbie you will probably get obliterated. Above that are mostly players with lots of cash, lots of high class equipment and lots of experience, but it will take a while (3 years or so :P) until you get there as free player. Try to find a good balance between firepower and armour and you will be fine, don't pump up your PS if you don't need to.

 

If you are new, take all of this info with a grain of salt, as they really don't like to tell players when a system gets changed and it can all be twisted around again after the next update.

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On 4/13/2020 at 3:14 PM, bkgmjo said:

Say... it's cannon has 100 HP in a hard raid, using a 5000-5999 PS car you need to deal 100 dmg to it to destroy it. If your car has 6000-6999 PS, you would already need to deal 120 damage. If you do 60, it will be 50% damaged. The other lower PS players still only need to do 50 damage now. But your score would be compared in 50 vs 60 dmg

Does that mean the 6000-6999 PS car will have better rewards because has dealt more damage (60 HP) than the lower PS car ?

By overall I meant what PS range is it better to play on, all weapon categories (rare special epic legendary). example is it better to run a growl ampere 4x sinus build at less than 6K PS, or some epic weapons at let's say 8000-9000 PS range ? The goal being to get the most of a hard raid without legendary weapons (too expensive for F2P players) and without too much increased difficulty.

Also, curiosity question, what do you use as build for hard raids ?

Thanks again for your answers !

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11 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

Does that mean the 6000-6999 PS car will have better rewards because has dealt more damage (60 HP) than the lower PS car ?

No. Dealing more damage gives more reward. With higher PS weapons you have the potential to deal more total damage, as bots have more hitpoints in total. This would give you an advantage over players in the tier below your PS, IF both are shooting at the same bot. Killing alone is killing alone and will always give the same score. Since nobody guarantees you will actually do that extra damage before your team kills the bots, just pumping up PS or installing higher PS weapons can be counterproductive (no solo kills) and you take more damage from the same bots as well. It's a matter of what you feel good with and also very much of which level of weapons you can afford to upgrade, as those upgrades really make a difference.

17 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

By overall I meant what PS range is it better to play on, all weapon categories (rare special epic legendary). example is it better to run a growl ampere 4x sinus build at less than 6K PS, or some epic weapons at let's say 8000-9000 PS range ? The goal being to get the most of a hard raid without legendary weapons (too expensive for F2P players) and without too much increased difficulty.

Depends on skill and equipment. My laptop probably has lower graphics than the first Gameboy, so 3 x Vector/Sinus + scope to actually see whether it's a moving bush or a bot with a weapon still intact is quite an improvement. It also helps with long range aim ofc. If you don't need that and have a high hit rate, 4 x Vector/Sinus is a perfect free2play version. If you are really really good with those, you can also switch to dual little boy/hulk/fat man/… . But you really need to have a near 98% hit rate to be at the same scores as MG players in hard raids. If you want epics, go for double incinerator as support @6-8k(doppler mandatory here), everything else is a step down from efficiency of rare/special weapons. Just know what you are doing as support builds need a team that works, otherwise it's over very quickly. Legendary isn't really an improvement and you meet too many clown builds as teammates (TOW/Hurricane/Whirlwind/Exe/…), although double Assembler can be good on some maps. If you can afford relic, go for it I guess. I don't have a single one of those yet, but from what I see the only "improvement" is porcs.

30 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

Also, curiosity question, what do you use as build for hard raids ?

1. Double Inc Hover on Growl with Gasgen, Doppler, Colossus @<8000 PS/75 km/h
2. Triple Sinus on Torrero with Scope, Doppler, Hot Red @<6000 PS/117 km/h
3. Quad Sinus on Growl @<6000 PS/100 km/h
4. Frontal Mandrake on Torrero with Doppler @<7000 PS/~65km/h

Those are my main builds, sometimes Little Boys for the dailies. I would really not recommend 4 for a new player or with random teammates and to learn the incinerator game at medium raids in a group that can save the raid. Weapons always mounted at not too high and close to the centre of mass of the car to minimize projectile spread while driving or continuously firing, with tires that give enough stability to handle the recoil (becomes important with cannons/higher level MGs/Autocannons). Always 25% rep bonus (those rare street signs are most efficient for it in weight/rep and PS/rep) and of course it has to look somewhat nice.

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8 hours ago, Charlie9204 said:

I meant what PS range is it better to play on, all weapon categories (rare special epic legendary)

bkgmjo did a pretty good job of answering this, but I'm just going to add that PS isn't all that it's cracked up to be.  It's a factor, but not The factor that governs your score.

Honestly, it's what you're best, and most comfortable playing.  If that's Hovers (For example) then your Power Score is going to go up, without a proportionate increase in Damage, and Killing Power.  What you get out of it is maneuverability (You can fly over the Acid Lake in Steel Cradles, and beat other players to some points) and a ride height.

That's why I use Storms instead of Machineguns.  With the Harpy, you also get more blast, hit more parts per shot, and deal more damage overall, but for me it's about Range, and dealing damage at a distance.  So, you don't have to rush in, or wait for the enemies to come to you, you can effectively fight at any distance, but you lose some traverse at close range, and gun depression in return.  

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