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I'd contend it was trash on anything but hovers even before the nerf. In missions the meta is cloaked rush builds that kill you 10 seconds out of cloak. In CW, the meta is even less skillful since doppler, verifier, and cloak spam is mandatory on comparatively tiny maps. Even having been a powerful weapon, this is offset by its very difficult to utilize nature. The mechanics before the nerf were you charge to 50% damage for 2.5 seconds. The weapon becomes 100% accurate after this initial 2.5 seconds. The weapon is less accurate than shotgun unless you initially charge it for 2.5 seconds, which also makes reflex shots impossible. You can't get hit by surprise and immediately retaliate with 100% effectiveness. You can't make a shot on a target that appears unexpectedly and disappears. You cannot precharge these weapons as a viable strategy either unless you know you will have a shot within 5 seconds of starting to charge.

Then the weapon had a 2.5 second overcharge stage, this is the stage where the weapon becomes capable of dealing damage since it has full velocity and accuracy, except you have to fire or else your guns will overheat which drops them to 240 hp. If they overheat because you tried to make a shot over 780 damage and didn't fire within a 10th of a second, (Reflexes are 1/5th of a second) your guns are now at 240 hp, glowing bright red, and you are exposed to who you were going to shoot with your guns exposed. You WILL be stripped by anybody with any intelligence if you **** up with these guns like that. No other weapon has that penalty. If you choose not to fire, you wasted a perfectly adequate 600-700 damage salvo, reset your quantum perk, and you lost your surprise advantage.  

Now the weapon has only 400 hp (200 when overheated) and a 2 second overcharge stage. I now only have two seconds to shoot after I had to wait an initial 2.5 seconds to get to where I can do damage. This thing is totally xxxx unusable without hovers now. It wasn't usable before the nerf either unless you had expert planning and immaculate timing, or a scope while sitting at the back of the map. Even then it still is a situational weapon, you can't make reflex shots on targets that briefly appear and disappear. I couldn't even play it as a sniping weapon with a scope because the meta is close range rush builds that kill you 10 seconds after rushing you with a cloak. 

While it previously could one shot a Tsunami or Pulsar, it requires perfect timing, execution, and an active quantum perk. If you messed this shot up, you were **** outta luck as well since you lost your quantum perk, and you are now under pressure which always messes up a players ability to use timed weapons (Helios players before the full auto change know all about this, except its worse with Assemblers)

Its not a small weapon either, its collision model is actually much larger than its physical model if you test its bounds with your mouse in the garage.As you can see, the weapon has a 6 wide hitbox despite appearing to be only 4 wide. The gap underneath the gun itself is also not real, it will take damage when shot there. This weapon is very situational even without its clumsy firing mechanics because it is a 6 energy weapon with a full 6 energy weapon size and has the health of a 4-5 energy weapon. 

image.png.c0142bdfed708a1fafb89aa542eaa2

Reverse the Assembler nerf. 9k hovers zipping around like dragonflies and biting like lions are what needed the nerf. 

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Hmmmmm that sounds a bit dramatic. I agree they shouldn't have touched the durability, but hey.

Maybe a rotation speed buff would be less interesting on hovers than other movement parts?

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The Assemblers just show how broken overpowered glass cannon hovers are. They are the epitome of a clumsy high skill weapon, and hovers make them as ergonomic to use as a machinegun. Even with a scoped Assembler build, it is so unbelievably hard to score a hit on such a narrow target that dodges back and forth at instant top speed. You can't even dodge that fast in first person shooters, you have reduced strafing speed and character inertia. Its just as hard to hit them at close range because they cover more screen space and your guns cannot rotate fast enough to aim at them unless they turn 360 instantly. At long range your projectiles can't hit them fast enough to compensate for the delay in human reflex.

The dragonfly hovers need to die in order for the game to have clumsy high skill ranged weapons that are viable on anything not using hovers. Even if my meatgrinders had perfect suspension and their movement bugs were fixed, they still would not compete with dragonfly hovers. (Dragonfly hovers, 4 wings/4 hovers, impossible to swat out of the air when dodging and not flying in a straight line) 

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Search criteria is Assembler > New

Another thing I've just found out, with my dual Meatgrinder Colossus build, there is a half a second transmission (imagine changing the gearing takes half a second) latency when changing direction. Legs have this same half a second latency. Hovers have ZERO latency, they instantly start accelerating in the opposite direction. You can tell because the engine sound starts playing when you start accelerating. 

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Youre right, the problem is hover fast mosquitoes as always.

But hey, we know, devs dont give a fk about that. :fed012:

Edited by bertox
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NO, just NO! Assemblers are legendary weapons and they are basically as good as scorps. 1 Scorp costs like 7 times more than 1 Assembler, I see no logic in that. Scorps are suppose to be better than assemblers in sniping. Assemblers were able to take off fatmans and pulsars in just 1 hit, that's just wrong.

My point here being, is that even after the nerf, assemblers can still win against scorps from range. that's ranged legendary vs relic .. this should not even be possible (If both players are equally skilled). I'm not comparing them to any other weapon, such as cyclones or crickets, because they're in different category. They are ranged too, yes, but not sniper. Assembler and Scorpion are both long range snipers that rely on player's accuracy and timing, where one shot can degun or cripple enemy. assemblers are far smaller than scorps and also lighter, therefore assembler builds can have lots more armor or lot faster with same amount of armor.

 

Sorry about the offtopic here, but ... @AFluffyBadger ..not you again with your nonsense latency garbage. ofcourse meatgrinders have "latency" when changing direction, because this is how transmission works in real life you noodlebrain. Hover only has to change direction ... have you ever owned a RC drone or RC helicopter? They also change direction INSTANTLY and that's real life, so you see in real life flying things work same way. Also real helicopters, such as the Buzzard little bird can change their direction pretty much instantly when piloted by a pro. Meatgrinder has to actually SWITCH THE GEAR, like a car going from Drive to Reverse ... while hover only has to change its direction, same on helicopters and drones. helicopter only has to change the angle of the main blades to change direction and quadcopter drones have to just release throttle on 1 or more propellers to change direction, so OFCOURSE ITS INSTANT! I have seen you whine about this in like 3-4 topics already ... learn some physics, stop whining and learn to play. thank you!

so basiclally what you want from devs, is to make game so easy that you only need to hold W to win? .. but what you don't get, is that skilled players can hold W better than you, so you'd still lose and get your butt handed to you and then you'd start whining again...instead of complaining, try to understand the REAL problem behind you not being able to handle hovers. which is --- YOU ARE BAD AT THE GAME! Try playing some patrol. 

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3 minutes ago, Sethioz said:

NO, just NO! Assemblers are legendary weapons and they are basically as good as scorps. 1 Scorp costs like 7 times more than 1 Assembler, I see no logic in that. Scorps are suppose to be better than assemblers in sniping. Assemblers were able to take off fatmans and pulsars in just 1 hit, that's just wrong.

My point here being, is that even after the nerf, assemblers can still win against scorps from range. that's ranged legendary vs relic .. this should not even be possible (If both players are equally skilled). I'm not comparing them to any other weapon, such as cyclones or crickets, because they're in different category. They are ranged too, yes, but not sniper. Assembler and Scorpion are both long range snipers that rely on player's accuracy and timing, where one shot can degun or cripple enemy. assemblers are far smaller than scorps and also lighter, therefore assembler builds can have lots more armor or lot faster with same amount of armor.

 

Sorry about the offtopic here, but ... @AFluffyBadger ..not you again with your nonsense latency garbage. ofcourse meatgrinders have "latency" when changing direction, because this is how transmission works in real life you noodlebrain. Hover only has to change direction ... have you ever owned a RC drone or RC helicopter? They also change direction INSTANTLY and that's real life, so you see in real life flying things work same way. Also real helicopters, such as the Buzzard little bird can change their direction pretty much instantly when piloted by a pro. Meatgrinder has to actually SWITCH THE GEAR, like a car going from Drive to Reverse ... while hover only has to change its direction, same on helicopters and drones. helicopter only has to change the angle of the main blades to change direction and quadcopter drones have to just release throttle on 1 or more propellers to change direction, so OFCOURSE ITS INSTANT! I have seen you whine about this in like 3-4 topics already ... learn some physics, stop whining and learn to play. thank you!

so basiclally what you want from devs, is to make game so easy that you only need to hold W to win? .. but what you don't get, is that skilled players can hold W better than you, so you'd still lose and get your butt handed to you and then you'd start whining again...instead of complaining, try to understand the REAL problem behind you not being able to handle hovers. which is --- YOU ARE BAD AT THE GAME! Try playing some patrol. 

You've nothing on me Sethioz, show me your MVP rate you festering trashbag, you nasty bile mouthed cretin within a cheeto processing meatsuit. You scum sucking cow patty muncher. Disappear yourself from my eyes.

 Badger GIF on GIFER - by Cerad

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19 hours ago, Sethioz said:

NO, just NO! Assemblers are legendary weapons and they are basically as good as scorps. 1 Scorp costs like 7 times more than 1 Assembler, I see no logic in that. Scorps are suppose to be better than assemblers in sniping. Assemblers were able to take off fatmans and pulsars in just 1 hit, that's just wrong.

My point here being, is that even after the nerf, assemblers can still win against scorps from range. that's ranged legendary vs relic .. this should not even be possible (If both players are equally skilled). I'm not comparing them to any other weapon, such as cyclones or crickets, because they're in different category. They are ranged too, yes, but not sniper. Assembler and Scorpion are both long range snipers that rely on player's accuracy and timing, where one shot can degun or cripple enemy. assemblers are far smaller than scorps and also lighter, therefore assembler builds can have lots more armor or lot faster with same amount of armor.

 

Sorry about the offtopic here, but ... @AFluffyBadger ..not you again with your nonsense latency garbage. ofcourse meatgrinders have "latency" when changing direction, because this is how transmission works in real life you noodlebrain. Hover only has to change direction ... have you ever owned a RC drone or RC helicopter? They also change direction INSTANTLY and that's real life, so you see in real life flying things work same way. Also real helicopters, such as the Buzzard little bird can change their direction pretty much instantly when piloted by a pro. Meatgrinder has to actually SWITCH THE GEAR, like a car going from Drive to Reverse ... while hover only has to change its direction, same on helicopters and drones. helicopter only has to change the angle of the main blades to change direction and quadcopter drones have to just release throttle on 1 or more propellers to change direction, so OFCOURSE ITS INSTANT! I have seen you whine about this in like 3-4 topics already ... learn some physics, stop whining and learn to play. thank you!

so basiclally what you want from devs, is to make game so easy that you only need to hold W to win? .. but what you don't get, is that skilled players can hold W better than you, so you'd still lose and get your butt handed to you and then you'd start whining again...instead of complaining, try to understand the REAL problem behind you not being able to handle hovers. which is --- YOU ARE BAD AT THE GAME! Try playing some patrol. 

I can't believe I'm saying this.. but I actually agree with Sethioz.. he's right, they are totally imbalanced even still.. they are WAY too available for what they do.. a sniper weapon with no range falloff, no arcing of the projectile, no ammo, extremely fast projectiles, massive damage regardless of range, scalpel accuracy.. no I don't like this weapon, it's too much.

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Assembler isn't weak, or op.  It's pretty balanced.  Everyone is crying the extremes, but in reality it's more situated smack dab in the middle of trash and op. 

I personally prefer tsunamis for sniping.  Sure it's not nearly as easy to strip weapons with them, but I just enjoy cannons far more as a sniping weapon.  Assemblers I may use again one day, but I found myself just using other weapons instead as assemblers rotted in my inventory. 

They are a fun and effectively balanced weapon.  The firing mechanic just started to annoy me too much, so I bailed on the weapon to my dismay.  And I was so exited about the new sniping weapon too, and I love Summater.  I was hopeing assembler would be just as fun..... Not for me it wasn't.  Pulsars and tsunamis are more fun to me. 

Edited by tenshiijin

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On 4/26/2020 at 11:36 PM, AmongstEnemies said:

sethioz > fluffy Ace

Difference Sethioz has a clue on what he's talking about, Fluffy doesn't 

"Oh theres a 200 ms delay between when hovers accelerate one way and when they accelerate another that means they're going from 75 kph in one direction to 75kph in another direction in 200 ms hurr durr"

 

 

Also assemblers do need a nerf, it's literally broken, I peek out for half a second at the start of the match and my guns are already gone/sparking because of assemblers.

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I don't think Assembler should be measured againts Scorpion, they have different PS. Assembler is performing still very strongly. But it's starting to be similiar in power of Pulsar. You know how Pulsars dominate over other cannons.

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4 minutes ago, PurdooSix said:

I don't think Assembler should be measured againts Scorpion, they have different PS. Assembler is performing still very strongly. But it's starting to be similiar in power of Pulsar. You know how Pulsars dominate over other cannons.

Assembler should be measured against scorpion, it's basically the same type of weapon, yet assembler has higher alpha damage and faster "reload" plus infinite ammo, plus faster projectile speed, plus no damage drop-off when penetrating

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6 minutes ago, Bobbill12345 said:

Assembler should be measured against scorpion, it's basically the same type of weapon.

It's definitely used in the same role.  So, when it comes down to the question "I have 6/12 Energy, and I want to snipe people across the map, what weapon should I chose?"  Comparing the Legendary weapons that fill that niche isn't exactly a wasted exercise.

For so many reasons, people have been asking themselves that, and choosing Assembler>Scropion.  Bob just mentioned quite a few real good ones.  I personally hate having explosives onboard just to use a non-explosive weapon, so the simple weakness of Ammo Packs/Finite ammo is not inconsequetial.

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1 hour ago, Bobbill12345 said:

 plus no damage drop-off when penetrating

That's like, either very dishonest, or you missing how Assemblers and Scorps work. Assembler can never do more than its base damage because any panel it hits substracts from its base damage, like with any hitscan or projectile. That's the normal Overkill mechanic. Scorp is the only weap that deals a flat amount of damage to anything on its path regardless of whatever was in front of it.
This means that while Assemblers indeed deal more single target damage (by a small margin) than Scorps, there's noooooo way Assemblers are better at penetrating than Scorps. That's just a wrong claim and hmmmm... I mean I dunno, that's very basic mechanisms of the game. I wish people tried to understand how it works before making claims.

Suggestion 1: stop trying to snipe weaps and try to snipe cabs and gens instead with your Scorp, considering Assembler is just better at sniping weaps?
Suggestion 2: stop using 12 dura panels as spaced armor, or stop expecting it to do good against Assembler.

 

1 hour ago, psiberzerker said:

It's definitely used in the same role.  So, when it comes down to the question "I have 6/12 Energy, and I want to snipe people across the map, what weapon should I chose?"  Comparing the Legendary weapons that fill that niche isn't exactly a wasted exercise.

For so many reasons, people have been asking themselves that, and choosing Assembler>Scropion.  Bob just mentioned quite a few real good ones.

Because Assembler does what people used to do with Scorps better. Using Scorps for its nearly 300 damage on exposed weaps is NOT making any use of its very powerful perk. I'm letting you guess why Assembler is more powerful than a poorly used Scorp.

That's like complaining that Fortunes are more powerful than Porcs because Porcs can't hit hovers. Or trying to fit the cylinder in the square hole.

Edited by Clebardman
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35 minutes ago, Bobbill12345 said:

Assembler should be measured against scorpion, it's basically the same type of weapon, yet assembler has higher alpha damage and faster "reload" plus infinite ammo, plus faster projectile speed, plus no damage drop-off when penetrating

They are not the same type of weapon at all outside of range. There are only 6 Scorpion Assembler CW builds on the exhibition, that proves they are incompatible weapons at the competitive level. If they are incompatible, they are incomparable. I think that's a solid way to put it for these two weapons. 

Assemblers cannot use the same playstyle Scorpions can, Assemblers cannot react to enemies more aggressive than them, that is just the way the weapon works because of its charge and discharge time.  

Assemblers cannot penetrate 7 pins deep into armor doing 280 damage to every part hit along the way. This is a critical advantage when it comes to stripping weapons behind armor. Scorpions can pop ammo packs and Apollos through cabins as well. 

Assemblers fire slower than Scorpions do because they cannot be accelerated at all. Scorpions have the Colossus, Echo, and Omnibox to take advantage of. Scorpion reloads in 4.5 seconds with a Colossus, which is identical to the Assembler. It also doesn't require expert planning and timing to use effectively. 

Assemblers do have a faster projectile, but they spread much more than Scorpions do. At 300 meters, fully charged Assemblers will miss a Scorpion sized target half the time, Scorpions are infinitely accurate compared to Assemblers.

Looking at your profile, you've never owned Scorpions nor Assemblers, I'd honestly stop having convictions on either weapon if I were u. Its nothing personal, but I can't consider the words of somebody who's owned neither weapon while making false statements on them.

42 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

For so many reasons, people have been asking themselves that, and choosing Assembler>Scropion.  Bob just mentioned quite a few real good ones.  I personally hate having explosives onboard just to use a non-explosive weapon, so the simple weakness of Ammo Packs/Finite ammo is not inconsequetial.

Do you use Assemblers? Have you ever built a CW build?  Why do you always agree with others false statements that you've no firsthand experience of? 

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It is sad how developers nerf weapons instead of touching the actual problem... hovers.

 

On a ground vehicle it is far more balanced because you cant casually ignore all of its drawback unlike on a hover.

 

Now they nerfed its durability.... ground vehicles perform even worse with it while hovers wont give the slightest xxxx.

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4 minutes ago, ARES_IV said:

Now they nerfed its durability.... ground vehicles perform even worse with it while hovers wont give the slightest xxxx.

They also nerfed the weapon's usability, because it was only usable for 2.5 seconds after you charged it, because that is when it becomes accurate enough to kill something. That means the weapon is only usable for 2.5 seconds after you had to charge it for 2.5 seconds. Now its only usable for two seconds after charging it fully, which makes getting good shots that much harder. It truly is a worthless weapon off hovers now.

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On 4/25/2020 at 8:35 PM, Xbox_M_420 said:

Bruh the game is already at that stage, everything meta is just easy garbage for skilless people.. 

Wedges, hovers, melee/fire, porcs.. It all takes barely any skill.. Coupled with radars that cover the map and the verifier makes for a very boring game.. 

Yeah, some of those are certainly easier to play with, but where does the 0-skill labeling end? How far are you guys going to go, saying that whatever is powerful requires no skill?

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1 minute ago, Jiffy_boi said:

Yeah, some of those are certainly easier to play with, but where does the 0-skill labeling end? How far are you guys going to go, saying that whatever is powerful requires no skill?

I have yet to hear even a case made for 1 weapon that does actually require skill.  Only the ones that don't.  Other than that, they seem to think that "Skill" means nerfing yourself to make it a "Fair" fight.

i'm sorry, but that's not skill, it's just stupid.

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14 hours ago, AFluffyBadger said:

They also nerfed the weapon's usability, because it was only usable for 2.5 seconds after you charged it, because that is when it becomes accurate enough to kill something. That means the weapon is only usable for 2.5 seconds after you had to charge it for 2.5 seconds. Now its only usable for two seconds after charging it fully, which makes getting good shots that much harder. It truly is a worthless weapon off hovers now.

I play them on hovers and I don't really notice any hover or Assembler nerf yet, but having said that, I often charge them up and release in about 1-2 second intervals when I'm approaching enemies on normal maps.(doesn't apply to crater or bridge which are so pure sniping maps where I just can't get into midrange without too much of risk)

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On 4/28/2020 at 5:57 PM, AFluffyBadger said:

Do you use Assemblers? Have you ever built a CW build?  Why do you always agree with others false statements that you've no firsthand experience of? 

This is coming from the guy who claims hovers are impossible to hit because they never stop accelerating 

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So all in all it's the same old issue, hovers having a highly unbalanced advantage without adequate tradeoff. Know how those Founder legs increase crosshair speed? How about hovers giving a fixed reduction in accuracy? 50% for <5 Icarus, 40% for >4 should do, possibly a bit more (remember there are copilot, cabin and upgrades to counter the effect). Would also be kinda logical. Pretty shaky to be balancing on turbines.

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7 hours ago, Bobbill12345 said:

This is coming from the guy who claims hovers are impossible to hit because they never stop accelerating 

Did you skip my post where I answered you and some of the false claims you made?

 

How convenient.

 

6 hours ago, bkgmjo said:

So all in all it's the same old issue, hovers having a highly unbalanced advantage without adequate tradeoff. Know how those Founder legs increase crosshair speed? How about hovers giving a fixed reduction in accuracy? 50% for <5 Icarus, 40% for >4 should do, possibly a bit more (remember there are copilot, cabin and upgrades to counter the effect). Would also be kinda logical. Pretty shaky to be balancing on turbines.

They should just increase every weapon's spread on the move, considering hovers are almost never considere static by the game. Problem solved, easy.

Edited by Clebardman
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3 minutes ago, Clebardman said:

They should just increase every weapon's spread on the move, considering hovers are almost never considered static by the game. Problem solved, easy.

That might help.  Considering that Jade has a perk for that, it's even coded in.  What's the point of spending all those resources for a level 15 perk, when the engines from the same faction basically do that better?

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