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VisceraCleaner

Balance overhaul [Censored] please?

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I dont think Golden eagle is actually bad. It's bad compared to Colossus so a build with tracks and reloading weapons will always use Colossus but if it was buffed I dont think you would ever consider hardcore or hot red on a tracked build with heat based weapons.

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10 minutes ago, Firedrizzle said:

I don't think Golden Eagle is actually bad. It's bad compared to Colossus.

IKR?  It's a good engine, for bad Movement Parts.  As much Mass Limit as Colossus.  I actually bought a Born Free pack, sold the Joule, and kept the Golden Eagle!

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17 hours ago, AFluffyBadger said:

There is zero reason to use special modules and any cab that isn't epic. 

Nobody will use the new power unit.

Nobody uses Golden Eagles or Oppressors because of the stupid perk stacking this game has. 

It is possible that no one uses them in CW, but CW isn't the entire game, I see them both (special modules and non-epic cabs) fairly often in Raids. usually at normal or hard level.  GE suffers from not being optimized for the right thing, if anything it should not be buffing tracks and should be buffing hovers. Likewise oppressors are used in leviathans, though I have a few normal builds internally configured to use them typically in conjunction with Goliath tracks.

As for the new Raven's power unit, yes it's not all that great most of the raven's stuff is pretty lame. We didn't get the demonstrated new cabin, nor that special rocket booster thing or whatever it is that made that weird monster truck design have the cabin not be connected to the frame pieces.

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2 minutes ago, TKG_actual said:

IGE suffers from not being optimized for the right thing, if anything it should not be buffing tracks and should be buffing hovers.

It's an AIRCRAFT ENGINE!!!  Crossout logic, the Nomads take the engine out of a fighter, and discover that it boosts Track speed.  You could straight up switch the perk to read Hovers instead of Tracks, and Meat Grinders.  It would make so much more sense.

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20 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

It's an AIRCRAFT ENGINE!!!  Crossout logic, the Nomads take the engine out of a fighter, and discover that it boosts Track speed.  You could straight up switch the perk to read Hovers instead of Tracks, and Meat Grinders.  It would make so much more sense.

Exactly! If they did that it'd get an entirely new lease on life though the hover-haters would still loose their minds. Also the Colossus is the one that says it came from a tracked vehicle it should be getting the tracks and or meatgrinder perks. Push comes to shove make the Razorback more useful and optimize it for meatgrinders since I don't think there's a grinder specific engine at all.

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6 hours ago, TKG_actual said:

Push comes to shove make the Razorback more useful and optimize it for meatgrinders since I don't think there's a grinder specific engine at all.

Golden Eagle works for those, but honestly, they don't need an engine boost, just a debug.

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7 hours ago, Firedrizzle said:

I dont think Golden eagle is actually bad. It's bad compared to Colossus so a build with tracks and reloading weapons will always use Colossus but if it was buffed I dont think you would ever consider hardcore or hot red on a tracked build with heat based weapons.

Yeah that's the point, there's an engine for tracked vehicles and it's so bad that even builds wich don't benefit from reloading perks go for other engines.

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Golden Eagle was useful when I was running goblins with armoured tracks. Didn’t need the reload, and the slight speed boost meant that I could keep out of the turn radius of the Goliath goblins that were very popular for a while. 
Sold it when I sold those tracks, but considering crafting another to try with my small tracks.

It’s not a very useful engine, but does have a few applications where it makes sense. Thinking that it might be good with triggers and small tracks, so that I can keep people in range easier.

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1 hour ago, Clebardman said:

Yeah that's the point, there's an engine for tracked vehicles and it's so bad that even builds wich don't benefit from reloading perks go for other engines.

It makes a difference on auger builds. But only the ones that dont use a reload weapon or have recharging modules.

Good on reaper and cyclones and thats about it.

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12 minutes ago, Krakc said:

It makes a difference on auger builds. But only the ones that dont use a reload weapon or have recharging modules.

Good on reaper and cyclones and thats about it.

It worked on a Gasgen, Photon, Aurora, and Plasma Emitters build, pretty beautifully.  (Granted, this was an old patch, before PEs got buffed, and Triggers came out.)  You pretty much have to have an odd number of Energy to fit it in, though.  Which is less than ideal.  With Apollo, and Helios, you have 1 extra for a good Radar/Detector.  Cloak doesn't really help with DPS weapons, because you have to hold the DPS button down.  (Which decloaks you, anyway.)

Due to the stats, and how you have to build around them, Augers really work best on a Medium build.  Going lightweight isn't going to get you any more speed, and you can't really add enough armor to truly Tank.  The 5K/H isn't enough to catch Hovers for 2 reasons:  Acceleration, and they can float over things you have to go around.

Also, you have to stop, and re-accelerate every time you transition from strafing to forward/back movement, and slow down in turns to turn properly.  All that combined is what makes them less than competitive.  It's not really much, but it's across the board, and 10% is enough to rob your competitive edge.  It's enough to make up for if you can out-play the hover, though.

Edited by psiberzerker

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@WoodyIVv @Ka1deron So when will mass balance change be applied?

In fact, it is so messy and some changes look unreasonable, but in overall, it looks fine. (At least fine.)

But anyway, you guys should anything as soon as possible to improve this game and this update is at least fine so i hope this is applied as soon as possible.

Sometimes i wonder whether you guys can't improve the balance or don't want to improve the balance.
This is so mysterious question, isn't it?

Edited by VisceraCleaner

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On 5/11/2020 at 12:38 PM, VisceraCleaner said:

Ok, this is season 2.


In this game, there are so many broken parameters, stats of parts and of course balance sucks.
Maybe it will be hard to twaek them without turning them OP or trash. But at least there are some so obvious things.

MXPtyTR.png

nwK19J5.png

WTF? Only 90 ps difference but look at difference between performances of both!

It would make sense if Maxwell were still rare part.
Yes, after you guys moved Maxwell to special rarity from rare, there was no parameter change for the Maxwell. You changed only label. Rare → Special!
That's why difference between special radar and epic radar is that big.

So actually, you nerfed Maxwell. Now its PS is much higher and it costs much more.
In fact, i believed there would be fix soon, but it seems you forgot your work or don't care balance at all.

 

So is it that hard to fix parameter of Maxwell as a special part? I don't get it.
It is just changing number properly and you guys can't get any clue for this simple job.

 

Raven's path introduced only 4 new parts. Only 4! So new contents update is not sufficient and even balance of them seems not good.
@Ka1deron @Woodyrojo Can you please at least fix the balance? At least start it from the easy task.

You seem so unhappy and unsatisfied that you probably forgot to take into account the base functionality of a radar detector. 

what is wrong with 85 difference in ps to extend the base fuctionalitty of a radar detector? 

what is wrong with 205 ps for a radar detector giving you some extra armor 2? 

Why do you want to put a way more powerful radar on the same level as the weak rare RD-1 LISTENER? I dont see any logic behind the example you tried to use in your opening post.... 

Its clear you are unhappy, but you picked the wrong stuff to complain about!!

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23 minutes ago, zengerz66 said:

You seem so unhappy and unsatisfied that you probably forgot to take into account the base functionality of a radar detector. 

what is wrong with 85 difference in ps to extend the base fuctionalitty of a radar detector? 

what is wrong with 205 ps for a radar detector giving you some extra armor 2? 

Why do you want to put a way more powerful radar on the same level as the weak rare RD-1 LISTENER? I dont see any logic behind the example you tried to use in your opening post.... 

Its clear you are unhappy, but you picked the wrong stuff to complain about!!

Are you joking?
Just check the detection range of both which makes difference in the base functionality of a radar detector.

They just needed to fill the special rarity list, so they increased PS of rare part, adjusting only durability a bit. 
How can this be good balance design?

 

Anyway, dev

a6L7cDS.jpg

Edited by VisceraCleaner
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Just a note:  The Detection Range on Visors (Horizon, and Occulus) stacks on the Detection Range on Radars, and Detectors.  Not the range of enemies Behind Cover, only Line of Sight, but if you have the Energy (Because you have 2 Cannons that cost 6 Energy each, and a generator) you can see even farther with such a combination.

Honestly, i don't see the imbalance you guys do with Radar.  With a radio, (Which costs no Energy, and is a cheap Common) you can benefit from that information for next to nothing.  It's what you do with that intel that makes you a better player.  Having Radar/Radios/Detectors don't really do anything for you.  They just give you more information on enemy positions.  It's definitely not like Chameleon, making Stealth an Easy Button.

FWIW, I agree that Maxwell was better off as a Rare, and raising it to Special should have come with some stat change.  At the very least, they could have lowered the Weight on that heavy thing.

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19 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

Are you joking?
Just check the detection range of both which makes difference in the base functionality of a radar detector.

They just needed to fill the special rarity list, so they increased PS of rare part, adjusting only durability a bit. 
How can this be good balance design?

 

Anyway, dev

a6L7cDS.jpg



your examples and the lack of any rational/intelligent thought behind your opening post are a joke.

you couldnt even PROVIDE a solution or correction yourself; you where just complaining and crying about balance without a PROPER EXAMPLE. Dont cry about balance if you clearly are uncapable to pinpoint the exact failure here. I can check the difference better than you then; maybe that is also the reason why I am capable to pinpoint your failure in rational reasoning here and you at the same time arent capable of pointing out exactly where the devs where wrong. You only imply they are wrong, but you arent capable of explaining it with intelligent reasoning. You are just throwing garbage in the middle and asking questions. 

"check the detection range blablablabla"

be a man about it and tell us all EXACTLY TO THE POINT WHAT IS WRONG AND CORRECT IT WITH INTELLIGENCE!!!! dont ask me to check it, be a man yourself and name the flaws; point them out if you can; I bet you cant explain it logically.

Everyone can see the dopler has a bit of a better detection range for an increase in ps. Also these radars detect MORE than the listener and keen I stated as an example; thus they carry more ps with them as they are more powerfull than the other radars. Seems very logical to me. 

200 ps for a detector with maxwel capabilities isnt even much if you take into account the advantages it gives.
You are the idiot complaining about 85 ps for 150METER extra range while forgetting that detection behind cover alone deserves at least a ps of 175. 

 

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On 5/11/2020 at 1:27 PM, AFluffyBadger said:

Nobody will use the new power unit.

LMAOOOO

On 5/11/2020 at 1:27 PM, AFluffyBadger said:

Nobody uses (...) Oppressors because of the stupid perk stacking this game has. 

And lol again. You're so full of yourself.

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1 hour ago, zengerz66 said:

200 ps for a detector with maxwel capabilities isnt even much if you take into account the advantages it gives.
You are the idiot complaining about 85 ps for 150METER extra range while forgetting that detection behind cover alone deserves at least a ps of 175. 

Listen. I'm not talking about Maxwell is op or useless.

As you said, Maxwell is so useful and worth enough to afford 205 PS, mass, and space.
It can detect enemy in sight within 300 m, and enemy in cover within 250 m. So its detection range to PS ratio is 1.46 (in sight) and 1.21 (in cover).

Then lets see the Doppler. Its PS is 290 and detection range is 450 m in sight, and 400 m in cover. Ratio is 1.55 and 1.37.

Quote

1.55 > 1.46, 1.37 > 1.21

So Doppler has so much higher efficiency to PS. It is absolutely superior. 

Of course, Doppler is higher tier part and that it is reasonable it has better performance.
But difference is too big. In fact, it is quite irregular compared to other parts.

 

Look at the weapons.
Special Junkbow is 820 PS weapon dealing 144 damage per a shot. Ratio is 0.175.
Epic Fafnir is 1160 PS weapon dealing 160 damage per a shot. Ratio is 0.138.

As you can see ratio is decreased. It is happens to other weapons such as course cannons.
(Prosecutor 76mm; 1025 PS, 121 damage, 0.118  meanwhile  Executioner 88mm; 1450 ps, 147 damage, 0.101)

 

Including Detectors, so many modules have the higher the tier, the better parameter and superior efficiency, unlike other parts.
Is it too hard to calculate and figure out?


Still can't you understand? i will help you.

Quote

There is no regularity or uniform change in parameter change of hardware.
Detector is just one of simple example.

When there is no rule, it means developers just set the numbers without any plan. They just chosen the number carelessly.

Edited by VisceraCleaner

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12 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

Listen. I'm not talking about Maxwell is op or useless.

As you said, Maxwell is so useful and worth enough to afford 205 PS, mass, and space.
It can detect enemy in sight within 300 m, and enemy in cover within 250 m. So its detection range to PS ratio is 1.46 (in sight) and 1.21 (in cover).

Then lets see the Doppler. Its PS is 290 and detection range is 450 m in sight, and 400 m in cover. Ratio is 1.55 and 1.37.

Of course, Doppler is higher tier part and that it is reasonable it has better performance.
But difference is too big. In fact, it is quite irregular compared to other parts.

 

Look at the weapons.
Special Junkbow is 820 PS weapon dealing 144 damage per a shot. Ratio is 0.175.
Epic Fafnir is 1160 PS weapon dealing 160 damage per a shot. Ratio is 0.138.

As you can see ratio is decreased. It is happens to other weapons such as course cannons.
(Prosecutor 76mm; 1025 PS, 121 damage, 0.118  meanwhile  Executioner 88mm; 1450 ps, 147 damage, 0.101)

 

Including Detectors, so many modules have the higher the tier, the better parameter and superior efficiency, unlike other parts.
Is it too hard to calculate and figure out?


Still can't you understand? i will help you.

No I wont look at weapons when I clearly made a point in naming the rd-1 listener.... you should compare ps with those radars and not with weapons.

also we are talking about dynamics here, you cant ever solve those with bad linear static calculations just cherrypicking 2 values for some NUMBers...... 

the rare blue rd-1 listener has a power score suited for its capabilites. this maxwell is a lot better than the rd-1 listener so obviously its higher tier. I dont know what is so hard about this. 
The rd keen also has a power score; maybe look at that also instead of naming weapons comparing those with radars..... 

I think a little bit of intelligent insight and rational thinking can help you much more in these kind of dynamic situations instead of some static linear calculations. It is still not clear or explained to me why the maxwel should be a blue radar while it is so much better than the rd-1 listener. You can blame the devs, but I dont see a proper solution from you either :) 

 

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WTF?

2 hours ago, zengerz66 said:

what is wrong with 85 difference in ps to extend the base fuctionalitty of a radar detector? 

what is wrong with 205 ps for a radar detector giving you some extra armor 2? 

1 hour ago, zengerz66 said:

Everyone can see the dopler has a bit of a better detection range for an increase in ps. Also these radars detect MORE than the listener and keen I stated as an example; thus they carry more ps with them as they are more powerfull than the other radars. Seems very logical to me. 

You are the idiot complaining about 85 ps for 150METER extra range while forgetting that detection behind cover alone deserves at least a ps of 175. 

1 hour ago, zengerz66 said:

the rare blue rd-1 listener has a power score suited for its capabilites. this maxwell is a lot better than the rd-1 listener so obviously its higher tier. I dont know what is so hard about this.

It seems you support idea that higher ps part should have superior performance.

And i didn't oppose to this idea even at once!

43 minutes ago, VisceraCleaner said:

Of course, Doppler is higher tier part and that it is reasonable it has better performance.
But difference is too big. In fact, it is quite irregular compared to other parts.

Can't you understand? I'm not complaining about why Doppler is better than Maxwell.

What i have been talking about is efficiency ratio. It should be always considered.
Or dev updating new relic better than ordinary legendary by 85000% will be acceptable too.

I'm not talking about whether higher tier part should be better than lower tier part.
I'm talking about how much better it should be.

Edited by VisceraCleaner
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I’ve actually been choosing maxwell over Doppler lately because it’s a lot easier to fit into smaller builds. For me, that’s enough to make up for the shorter range, as well as wanting to get my module PS as low as  possible so I can use more of it for armour/movement/weapons.

I definitely wouldn’t complain if it were cheaper in PS, but it doesn’t need to be for me to find it useful on some builds. 

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I have a free (Not for Sale) Maxwell from a Minor Crate.  So, I use that, when I have the Energy.  I get more out of my Colossus than I would out of a Radar Detector (The Power is really nice on Harpy, as is the Mass Limit, and Reload perk.)  I get most of my Intel behind cover over the Radio, anyway.  

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On 5/11/2020 at 2:27 PM, AFluffyBadger said:

There is zero reason to use special modules and any cab that isn't epic. Then of all the usable modules, half of them aren't useful because their perk isn't good enough to stack. Nobody will use the new power unit. Nobody uses Golden Eagles or Oppressors because of the stupid perk stacking this game has. 

Actually you forgot many stats. Example weigth. 

I using maxwell much often than doppler.  I dont need to see full map.

I want see behind corners. Same thing i saving some weigth. That extra weigth can put extra armor something.  

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On 5/12/2020 at 8:26 AM, psiberzerker said:

IKR?  It's a good engine, for bad Movement Parts.  As much Mass Limit as Colossus.  I actually bought a Born Free pack, sold the Joule, and kept the Golden Eagle!

Golden eagle healt 440. (fusio) 

That give nice extra armor.  Most people dont yet figured it. Really handy in low ps games. :002:

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2 minutes ago, Santonik said:

Golden eagle health.

Oh yeah.  I definitely used that to protect my Gasgen, for months.  Also, for counter-mass low, between 2 Meat Grinders.  Made it a lot easier to keep them on the ground, and I usually kept rolling back upright when I was flipped over, even when I was wedged.  (That was basically a Wedge Killer build.)

Of course, Colossus can be used the same way, AND you get that Reload Perk.  It is a better engine, but that doesn't make the GE a bad one.  (Cheap AF, too.  Plausibly the cheapest Pack Exclusive on the Market, for what it is.)

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On 5/11/2020 at 6:37 PM, Bobbill12345 said:

How do you balance a special module with an epic module the epic module SHOULD be just straight up better there's no avoiding it

I believe the point is that the PS/ability ratio between the epic and special radars is super inconsistent.

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