AFluffyBadger

Nerfs needed in Clan Wars

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Porcs cant be 4 energy, this would eliminate them from cw, it would be better to make the reload much more longer.

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3 hours ago, Krakc said:

that and scorps passing through aegis.

ye scorps are so damn powerful u can do good with them, with just a few brain cells

 

 

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43 minutes ago, szefopl said:

Porcs cant be 4 energy, this would eliminate them from cw, it would be better to make the reload much more longer.

No. They can still vomit a field of mines that is impassible to any non-hover that roll 200m uphill.  They need to be 4 energy. A build capable of that much damage and area denial should not be able to have multiple kapkans, a Skinner, and other support modules. Just the support modules alone on a Porc build are enough to win games in Bronze and Silver. 

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1 hour ago, szefopl said:

Porcs cant be 4 energy, this would eliminate them from cw, it would be better to make the reload much more longer.

Holup, you saying if a weapon is nerfed, it might no longer be meta.... and thats a bad thing? Does no one understand that the idea of meta is the problem. By definition being meta means that its use is popular and it excels in almost any players "hands". Often times in the forum i see players referring to OP(over powered) as the same as over performing, and yet over performing is the definition of META. 

 

My problem that frustrates me most with this game is the vision and method to reach said end goal for the game. Do they want weapons that perform better than others? Or do they want weapons that are more popular than others, based on ease of use and learning curve? Further is the goal that we as a community want, is weapons that offer challenges in match, due to variety or due to popularity and strength in numbers. You see its often stated that because a weapon is popular its over powered, when in fact it may just be easier to use than another for the results. for example, some matches playing with elephants seem like it takes everything i got (skill) to just get 200 pts. Other times i hardly make any effort and you can get 2k. This in a nutshell should be the experience for every weapon, meaning its not over powered, and its not over performing, which as a result makes it non-meta material.

 

Of course i could be wrong, its my opinion and just a perspective. But at the end of the day porcs are cancer because of the number of counters, or lack there of. As a result, this makes it over performing (which IMO has to happen prior to it ever being able to called over powered). I believe it also to be over powered because of the DPS for the PS. To address i look to the recent king minelayer and propose a similar attribute of only 2 barrels (perhaps 3) per Porc out at a time, this would eliminate the spamming which is what i think the real issue is. The dps is acceptable for the powerscore, but the number of barrels can greatly vary the DPS above and below avg. Using a standard approach and basing it against data values and standard principles (mines can only have 2 laid out at a time) would also help affect the kapkan issue of being spammed. 

I hate seeing meta builds, to me its the lowest skill, not drones(except when drones are meta). If everybody can play it, you cant really argue it takes alot of skill, unless you consider avg (the avg of all players) taking alot of skill. You want to prove you are skilled(and few if any are with all weapons) go pick up a non-meta weapon and play it, get MVP or above 1k pts 9 of 10 matches for 7 days. To me a very data driven answer, proving you are truly skilled with the weapon, If you arent, then you cant say it takes a lot of skill.

Disclaimer: this is about weapons and not movement parts, thus hovers is not part of this viewpoint.

Edited by bot_22546
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5 hours ago, Nailes said:

Noone ever asked to introduce another overpowered item, but rather to make parts that do extremely badly today, viable. What are the unintended consequences? (Cut for brevity's sake) 

My point is, nerfs are simpler than buffs in this case. If I want A to perform worse, I do not buff B,C,D, & E to indirectly* (may not work) balance A if I can just nerf A. Can we at least agree that is a sensible rule to follow?

Secondly, your one step solution always has unintended consequences itself. Machineguns can currently only survive on hovers because with a hover you can constantly turn around and reduce the number of hits you take.

It goes both ways here. Also, machineguns will never be viable fighting peekaboo hovers with Scorpions. They will never be viable fighting Helios'. They will never be viable fighting Breakers. 

Last but not least, you listed almost every single CW used weapon except assemblers.

Assemblers are worthless decor without hovers. They need an overhaul and to be easier to use.

 

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6 minutes ago, bot_22546 said:

Further is the goal that we as a community want weapons that offer challenges in match, due to variety or due to popularity and strength in numbers.

I guess I'm a little weird here (Arguable whether you want to include me in the community) because i want to see more Diverse multi-role unit compositions than 4 bananas all running the same gun.  

I guess more like an MMO, where you have an LFG, and you can specifically say "I'm a tank, ISO a DPS."  Or whatever.  

Instead, we get Snipers...Ninjas, and a big no-man's land between them.  4 Snipers, 2 Snipers, 2 "Dogs," or about the closest thing you've got to a Mid-range/versatile role is PorKapHover dog catcher.

Edited by psiberzerker

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You do know meta is an acronym for "most effective tactic available" right? So by saying

1 hour ago, ZKWS said:

 you could try just not becoming yet other meta chaser. 

you are encouraging him to use less effective tactics than what is at his disposal? Not sound strategy bub. That is like trying to play chess without using the back line. 

"Oh no, please dont try to do you best!!!"

Didnt finish reading before I posted. Edited to add: see above Bot. Never a bad time to learn something new

Edited by Claysdad
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45 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

I guess I'm a little weird here (Arguable whether you want to include me in the community) because i want to see more Diverse multi-role unit compositions than 4 bananas all running the same gun.  

I guess more like an MMO, where you have an LFG, and you can specifically say "I'm a tank, ISO a DPS."  Or whatever.  

Instead, we get Snipers...Ninjas, and a big no-man's land between them.  4 Snipers, 2 Snipers, 2 "Dogs," or about the closest thing you've got to a Mid-range/versatile role is PorKapHover dog catcher.

This was my point as well....

Cash grabs for immediate meta items has a short life span and tends to burn players out. With constant meta shifts. For years the typhoon/hover meta was frustrating and i have to admit for awhile thats what i played in CW(back when i played hours a day, multiple times a week, for months). But it gets old, or it did for me. But was that the point of the game, to have a well established META, that all players attain to? If so, is that why the typhoons got slightly buffed again after they were nerfed to hard?

On the other hand shifting meta, keeps the game interesting, but makes the community tired of constantly figuring out a counter for each build.

In the end my questions were to illustrate that if the devs want to have a community less riled about the current state of the game, they would do well to communicate both short term and long term goals. The only reason not to is because you feel like the response could cause an issue for the community size in the short term, that will be unable to be addressed in the long term. But if this is true, my belief is you have bigger problems with marketing your game. When players know what to expect, they are more willing to invest, when they invest you have players for longer periods of time. When you get that, you get sustainable growth. 

While i applaud the content improvements and efforts in balancing, i wish clearer communication was available. 

Note: i 1000000% agree with the medium range weapons issue. However i honestly believe that the king minelayer is an important step in stemming the tide of making everything close or long range battles. YOu want to play slow and tanky, i have a mine for ya. You want to rush me, i have a mine for you too.... :)

 

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25 minutes ago, bot_22546 said:

In the end my questions were to illustrate that if the devs want to have a community less riled about the current state of the game, they would do well to communicate both short term and long term goals.

This community is permariled.  If you give them free stuff for Xmas, they call it a "Cash Grab."  Trying to appease these players is a waste of time.

it looks like they gave up, and started to make the game they wanted to.

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1 hour ago, AFluffyBadger said:

My point is, nerfs are simpler than buffs in this case. If I want A to perform worse, I do not buff B,C,D, & E to indirectly* (may not work) balance A if I can just nerf A. Can we at least agree that is a sensible rule to follow?

If you nerf A you can indirectly buff others. If you nerf hovers, porcs for instance become OP(because they arent already one of the most popular weapons in CW) and so on. So no, its not simpler and its not the sensible rule to follow.

1 hour ago, AFluffyBadger said:

It goes both ways here. Also, machineguns will never be viable fighting peekaboo hovers with Scorpions. They will never be viable fighting Helios'. They will never be viable fighting Breakers. 

In their current state, they cant fight anything. Depending on how you buff them aspects can fight Helios just fine and Punishers can fight Breaker aswell. MGs worked just fine in the past, I dont see why that cannot return

1 hour ago, AFluffyBadger said:

Assemblers are worthless decor without hovers. They need an overhaul and to be easier to use.

They are powerful snipers on wheels(I used one on fast tracks) aswell. They need an overhaul yes but they shouldnt be easier to use.

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7 hours ago, Clebardman said:

You said yourself that weapons were tougher on hovers because they can rotate to protect them

No sorry, I never said that.

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1 hour ago, Nailes said:

If you nerf A you can indirectly buff others. If you nerf hovers, porcs for instance become OP(because they arent already one of the most popular weapons in CW) and so on. So no, its not simpler and its not the sensible rule to follow.

Because of how convoluted game balance is right now, that is a problem. That does not mean Porcs necessitates hovers. That is broken game balance.

In their current state, they cant fight anything. Depending on how you buff them aspects can fight Helios just fine and Punishers can fight Breaker aswell. MGs worked just fine in the past, I dont see why that cannot return

Helios is still astronomically better than machine guns. Shotgun and fire meta also make any medium range hopelessly mediocre when sandwiched between dogs and scorps. That does not mean that machineguns don't generally need a buff to range and damage + dropoff. 

They are powerful snipers on wheels(I used one on fast tracks) aswell. They need an overhaul yes but they shouldnt be easier to use.

An Assembler hover or any rush build focusing you is all it takes to hopelessly ruin your game with a wheeled assembler. Also, all it takes to ruin your sniping fun is 

 

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On 5/12/2020 at 11:51 PM, AFluffyBadger said:

Flutes: 600 damage with 6 rockets, finishes reloading before the rocket's perk times out at 10 seconds. Does 900 damage over 6 rockets with 50% perk effectiveness. It has a 25 meter turning radius which means it can turn 180 degrees to hit something 50 meters away while pyres and hurricanes cannot turn 180 to hit something 100m away. They also fly much faster and can not be stripped until the vehicle is turned into a bare cabin. 

Locusts: Triple cricket builds that tank like 16 energy spiders and they also have access to a spare 3 energy for support modules when using an Icebox. Totally broken. 

Porcupines: Depth charges that will roll 200 meters uphill faster than meatgrinders. Basically infinite ammo for spamming, counters everything that is not a hover no questions asked. 

Hovers: They make literally everything but melee overpowered. Not even Breaker builds can keep up with hovers in CW. The only thing that effectively counters a hover is another hover, or dogs which relies on shotgun wedge meta; sloak/speed to attack too fast to react to, wedge/hook/spark to debuff and incapacitate, then use overpowered DPS to kill it before its teammates can even arrive. Dogs are conceptually identical to the most hated shotgun wedge. 

Scorpions: Too accurate, too easy to use. It should require a chargeup period like the Assembler, except it can be held charged infinitely. Charged scorps should turn slower. Scorp players should not be confidently taking on Breaker builds at medium range, they should be running like rabbits from a cougar. Also does over 800 damage to 7 layers of steppenwolf armor with just one slug. 

Annihilators: Automated weapons capable of killing a player have no place in a competitive mode at all. 

Lances: 5 of them will cripple a build and leave it unable to fight most of the time. Why do they even have more than 1 health? Everybody has to do this crazy **** to maximize protection on their weapons yet lancers can just have them hanging out there in the open! They also don't have to worry about blowing themselves up!

Blight & Firebug: Blights perk is too overpowered, firebug has way too much health for being an easily armored 5 energy weapon. 

Breaker: too much dps. Could use the Hammerfall's perk as it is an incredibly underrated perk.

Toadfish: 3 should not have 5x the impulse of a dual typhoon. People think they are bad now, but every Toadfisher is using all their bows on the same trigger.

Helios: Should never have been made to fire full auto. You've taken another weapon that required skill and training to use under pressure, and you've turned it into a Hold LMB weapon. BRILLIANT! Helios outclasses every machinegun in every way.

Hatchets & Bladewings: Every wheel build runs wedges. Its the same as the pre nerf harvester's ram damage. Even if you don't die, you've lost two Bigfoots or a Meatgrinder to a ram. 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you should quit the game , as that would be much easier

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On 5/14/2020 at 5:50 PM, AFluffyBadger said:

Its strange how these two muckbrained trolls just float around on the forums with no pfp or build pictures. Nobody's a clue about what powerscore they are at etc. Neither of them ever say anything constructive or new. One of them clearly does not know that double spaced verses is not the way to type on a forum. And the other is a toxic xxxxxxx that drifts around on the forums vomiting his cerebral atrophy all over any thread and user that is critical of game balance. Gtfo please.

correction......

you.... dont have a clue.

but just for info, my lowest powescore build is around 12500

my highest is around 15800.

ive played 19940 missions

destroyed 59070 enemies

my average kills per battle is 2.96

today, i killed all 8 players on the enemy team

https://xboxclips.co/wlll0w/screenshots/539b2ff5-e097-4f48-992b-38d1e98a23c6

i use a scorpion hover

an aurora dual helios hover

but i get my best results with .

an aurora dual cyclone on legs.

btw, you....

you gibbering salty simpleton

do not get to determine 

how other people express themselves.

if you have a problem reading this.....

you are a spastic.

but then, i'd already worked that out from the content of your posts.

bon soir

 

Edited by xWlLL0Wx
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25 minutes ago, xWlLL0Wx said:

today, i killed all 8 players on the enemy team

Congratulations.  It's always nice when you get a clean sweep.

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On 5/14/2020 at 1:26 PM, ZKWS said:

just type normal pliz 

like you do?

Edited by xWlLL0Wx
italics

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fluffy badger seems to want a nerf for literally everything lmao

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On 5/14/2020 at 6:46 AM, xWlLL0Wx said:

only by d ckheads like you!!

and whats this 'brah'

did you think of that yourself?

no you didnt.

its someone elses meme

that you use like its your own thing....

i bet that if you removed from your personailty

all the external things that were created by someone else

there would be nothing left of you.

 

lol having to use other peoples memes

because you cant think of anything yourself!!!

 

have a nice day bot

Shut the xxxx up.

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On 5/14/2020 at 11:20 PM, AFluffyBadger said:

No. They can still vomit a field of mines that is impassible to any non-hover that roll 200m uphill.  They need to be 4 energy. A build capable of that much damage and area denial should not be able to have multiple kapkans, a Skinner, and other support modules. Just the support modules alone on a Porc build are enough to win games in Bronze and Silver. 

Agreed on the porcs, it's a bit  to spammy imo

Edited by afghanaryan
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2 hours ago, afghanaryan said:

o. They can still vomit a field of mines that is impassible to any non-hover that roll 200m uphill.  They need to be 4 energy. A build capable of that much damage and area denial should not be able to have multiple kapkans, a Skinner, and other support modules. Just the support modules alone on a Porc build are enough to win games in Bronze and Silver. 

Also has to stay in the open to spam the porcs unless its behind a hill

The open is often vulnerable to range

Porcs being 4 energy would just ruin the balance, what they need is slower barrel speed + range so they still cuck melee but ranged ground builds have an easier time

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On 5/15/2020 at 1:12 AM, Claysdad said:

You do know meta is an acronym for "most effective tactic available" right?

Meta is short for metagame, wich is all the strategy that doesn't directly come from the rules themselves, but rather from the players.

For example in MtG if you're expecting the metagame of a tourney to be aggro with small creatures, you don't bring a slow deck. You bring some fast board control deck. But then again maybe people will all bring fast board control decks thinking the same thing, so you could try to bring some blue control deck, or a combo one, or anything that doesn't relly on board domination. Or you could just play aggro white with a Wrath of God to wipe the board when losing it against another aggro deck.

 

The acronym gamers invented out of the metagame concept is saddening tbh. It's like "hey X is better than everything else, it's the meta" No. The metagame is a game outside of the game that requires thinking. Not just a broken card/part/weapon or whatever.

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In the world of gaming, meta is used in two ways. Meta can be used as an acronym for “most effective tactics available,” and calling something “meta” means that it’s an effective way to achieve the goal of the game, whether it’s to beat other players or beat the game itself. Meta can also be short for metagame, which is using information about the game, derived from the world beyond the game or its rules, to influence the outcome of the game or gain a competitive edge.

When discussing CW and chasing the meta, it is about using what is most effective. I dont know about no magic game or pokemon crap but meta in Crossout seems to be mostly about most effective tactic.

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5 minutes ago, Claysdad said:

Meta can be used as an acronym for “most effective tactics available,” and calling something “meta” means that it’s an effective way to achieve the goal of the game, whether it’s to beat other players or beat the game itself. Meta can also be short for metagame, which is using information about the game, derived from the world beyond the game or its rules, to influence the outcome of the game or gain a competitive edge.

Right, but this is a forum discussion theorycrafting how to get the devs to nerf Clan Wars.

So, we're metagaming.  The "Most Effective Tactics Availible" aren't whining to the devs that it's not "Fair."

(Also, I capitalize the backronym META.  Meta is just metagaming.)

Edited by psiberzerker

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On 5/14/2020 at 4:33 PM, ZKWS said:

ye scorps are so damn powerful u can do good with them, with just a few brain cells

 

 

Nice job  exposing your back to scorp hovers

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21 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Right, but this is a forum discussion theorycrafting how to get the devs to nerf Clan Wars.

So, we're metagaming.  The "Most Effective Tactics Availible" aren't whining to the devs that it's not "Fair."

(Also, I capitalize the backronym META.  Meta is just metagaming.)

Cereal says he is scared to spend coins on best weapons when they may get nerfed. Z responds about dont chase the meta. If that doesnt mean "most effective tactic available" to you, we can agree to disagree.

Regarding "meta gaming", what does this mean to you in regards to Crossout? What do you think the masses think about it?

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