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CamoWraith

Make Armored Tracks and Meat grinders have variable length

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Meatgrinders and Armored tracks are decent at 6-7k Powerscore, but in higher PS ranges they begin to suffer.  As the cars get bigger, 2 meatgrinders or Armored tracks aren't sufficient to carry the weight of their cars. If a player puts more than 2 armored tracks/meatgrinders on their car, their turning speed and acceleration decrease significantly. Here's my solution to fix this problem: 

Giving Armored tracks and meatgrinders variable length will allow more more flexibility to players who are building their car. As a player makes the tracks longer, the durability and tonnage will increase at the cost of increased weight, power drain, and powerscore. 

Tell me what you think of my idea. What parts of my idea do you like? What ideas do you dislike? What would you rather see?

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4 hours ago, Siberian_Jay3x6 said:

I support this as long as theres also lengths as short as possible...not just "as short as useful".

Yes, my idea would allow them to be made shorter than they currently are. They would still be longer than hardened and small tracks though.

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4 hours ago, Siberian_Jay3x6 said:

I support this as long as theres also lengths as short as possible...not just "as short as useful". 

 

Do we really want Goliath tracks to get shrunk down to the length of small tracks? 
I would think the base size would be the minimum, and you can stretch.

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It would be great if they cut the Meat Grinders in half.  If you want 2 drums per side, then you can use 2 drums, on each side, just like Hardened Tracks.  

Meat Grinders need a lot of work, anyway.    

9 hours ago, CamoWraith said:

As the cars get bigger, 2 meatgrinders or Armored tracks aren't sufficient to carry the weight of their cars. If a player puts more than 2 armored tracks/meatgrinders on their car, their turning speed and acceleration decrease significantly. Here's my solution to fix this problem: 

One workable solution is to mount wheels, or light (Small, or Hardened) tracks inboard for more tonnage.  That's more efficient in terms of Cabin Drain, too.  Also, when you roll up on someone, you have traction from the tracks, or wheels.  If you lose one or both Meat Grinders, you still have them as a backup.  Since they don't touch the ground, they don't interfere with performance, nor the ability to Strafe at all.  Armored Tracks don't have the ride-height to do this.  (You lose a little reverse speed with wheels, but I don't drive around backwards anyway.)  Non-Steering APC wheels are the best for their size, tonnage, and damage resistances.  Small tracks are probably the second best, offset a little by their Weight.  However, they fit partially under certain parts, including cabins, and engines, and you get full Reverse Speed.

Edited by psiberzerker
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5 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

It would be great if they cut the Meat Grinders in half.  If you want 2 drums per side, then you can use 2 drums, on each side, just like Hardened Tracks.  

That would be great. I hear that when more than 2 meatgrinders are added on a vehicle, they tend to fight each other and they become

 

6 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Meat Grinders need a lot of work, anyway.  

. They really do. I think we should talk about improving meatgrinders and other under performing mobility parts more often.

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20 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

Do we really want Goliath tracks to get shrunk down to the length of small tracks? 
I would think the base size would be the minimum, and you can stretch.

I dont know about your We, but my We would like really short versions of Armored tracks, and Augers as short as is the height of...Big foot. 

Armored ones allow cab to ride lower than how cab sits on them tiny cheapest tracks, and thats one of the things what im after. 

All other dimensions would remain as in the originals.

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8 minutes ago, Siberian_Jay3x6 said:

Armored ones allow cab to ride lower than how cab sits on them tiny cheapest tracks, and thats one of the things what im after. 

ATs seemed to come out of the track re-work the best, for Heavy Cabins.  They matched Top Speed with Meat Grinders, so now Hans can do 70 with Bastion, Humpback, or Cohort, and again.  You can put Armored Tracks on either side of Meat Grinders, which tuck under the wider Cabins.  (With full Strafe capability, and Armored sides from the tracks covering the wheel wells.)

Basically, there's a Niche for them now.  They're not OP, but at least they can compete with the 6-8 Bigfoot Bricks.  I know I'm working on ideas for the Cohort in the Support Tank role.  I've already benefitted from them, and their dang Drones on Bridge.  There were several Cohorts on our side, we used the Bottleneck, and just Tanked, shooting across the Bridge at the other team.  (I had Howl, which is obstensibly a Medium Cabin, and gets 20% as opposed to Griffon, which has comperable stats, but only gets 10%)

Edited by psiberzerker
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Interesting suggestion.  It could work.  Or a power drain reduction for the third and fourth tracks. 

Though I think it would be good for Meatgrinders if you could have four shrunken ones, two front and two back of the cabin, because then you would actually have them drive properly. 

Tracks on the other hand idk.  Maybe I don't agree that part is a good idea. 

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14 minutes ago, tenshiijin said:

Though I think it would be good for Meatgrinders if you could have four shrunken ones, two front and two back of the cabin, because then you would actually have them drive properly. 

Sounds like a good idea. 

 

14 minutes ago, tenshiijin said:

Interesting suggestion.  It could work.  Or a power drain reduction for the third and fourth tracks. 

 

That might work. Especially if they can pivot at a reasonable speed.

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7 minutes ago, CamoWraith said:

Especially if they can pivot at a reasonable speed.

^This is what Tracks need.  I would think that the selling point, as far as Movement is concerned for tracks, should be turning in place.  However, Meat Grinders, Mecha Legs (Including Bigrams in Leg Mode) and Hovers all turn in place faster, AND can strafe in any direction, at full speed.  

Instead, we can reverse at full speed.  That's pretty much it (Well, that, and Armor/Damage resistance.  They are pretty tanky.)

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18 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

However, Meat Grinders, Mecha Legs (Including Bigrams in Leg Mode) and Hovers all turn in place faster, AND can strafe in any direction, at full speed.  

Instead, we can reverse at full speed. 

They can also reverse at full speed too. Small tracks have the fastest reverse speed though.

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6 hours ago, Siberian_Jay3x6 said:

I dont know about your We, but my We would like really short versions of Armored tracks, and Augers as short as is the height of...Big foot. 

Armored ones allow cab to ride lower than how cab sits on them tiny cheapest tracks, and thats one of the things what im after. 

All other dimensions would remain as in the originals.

I see what you’re saying, but I also see abuse potential for shrinking tracks. 
Since the problems being discussed are mostly about running more than one track per side, maybe the second track of the same type could connect to the first and have variable length?

I like the idea of a short auger, but that might be another thread. 

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Rotating while stationary should be the thing that tracks excel at, but they don’t.

Personally, I would rather a fast stationary pivot than any speed or traction buffs for tracks. 

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Could a single track always steer, or was that added? That seems broken to me. Augers should be able to steer with just one because of their split on each side, but there’s no way a single tank tread should be able to do anything but drive in a circle. 

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4 hours ago, CamoWraith said:

They can also reverse at full speed too. Small tracks have the fastest reverse speed though.

Right, but they all have full speed in any direction.  Tracks only in forward, and reverse.  Okay, you can drive backwards in Small, and Hardened tracks faster than Hovers.  That's great, but you're going to be chasing down hovers flying backwards.  You shouldn't even have to back out of a fight at full speed on Tracks, because they're not weak against Close Range builds.

Edited by psiberzerker

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While we’re on the subject of tracks: adding some wheels to a tank shouldn’t erase the reverse top speed of the tracks. Makes no sense. 

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5 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

While we’re on the subject of tracks: adding some wheels to a tank shouldn’t erase the reverse top speed of the tracks. Makes no sense. 

There should be some priority for Hybrids.  For example, if you pair Hardened tracks with Hovers (Because of Durability, and Damage Resistance.  Also, the shape, and speed, the best side-armor for Icarus IV is Hardened Tracks) your acceleration is limited to Hardened tracks' even when they're not touching the ground.  How does that work?  

However, on the subject of Priorities, I'm going to put Hybridization a lot lower than making Meat Grinders work as well as say Armored Tracks do now.  It's long overdue, and I just have to point to the fact that the only time you see Augers at high Power Scores, it's added onto a Spider, for melee resistance, or as a roller on a Tilted Mandrake.  You never see a pure Screw Tank, except for weird builds, because they're that hard to work with.  

Honestly, the perfomance is there, or it could be, if we didn't have to build, and drive specifically to avoid the Breakdancing Glitch.  If they fix that, i just bet they'd be competitive with Bigfoot, Icarus VII, and ML-200s.  (I don't think people have had Bigrams long enough to truly perfect optimization for them, in both modes.)

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5 hours ago, psiberzerker said:

That's great, but you're going to be chasing down hovers flying backwards.  You shouldn't even have to back out of a fight at full speed on Tracks, because they're not weak against Close Range builds.

The tracks themselves are tougher than hovers, but other components may not be. The reverse is nice for withdrawing from a position and not overly exposing yourself.

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2 minutes ago, CamoWraith said:

The reverse is nice for withdrawing from a position and not overly exposing yourself.

For that, Acceleration is better than Top Speed.

Edited by psiberzerker
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20 minutes ago, CamoWraith said:

Very true

 

With some weapons, a high reverse top speed is amazing. especially as a counter to shotgun wedges. If you have enough DPS and enough range, you can bait people into rushing you and then retreat while pounding them just out of their range.

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5 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

With some weapons, a high reverse top speed is amazing. especially as a counter to shotgun wedges. If you have enough DPS and enough range, you can bait people into rushing you and then retreat while pounding them just out of their range.

I've done that. I've seen shotgunners break off their attack on me because they knew I would do a lot of damage to them. 

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55 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

With some weapons, a high reverse top speed is amazing. especially as a counter to shotgun wedges. If you have enough DPS and enough range, you can bait people into rushing you and then retreat while pounding them just out of their range.

Yes, if you can control it.  I did that with Reaper, on Wheels.   9161561B5E78C201FD9776B9206EB403FB730858

Acceleration, top speed, and control.  That's what the legs are for, stability.  (However, you're vulnerable to wedging from the rear.)

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