Vincefeld

[Growl] 11 energy, [Trucker] 9. Stop this right now!

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Just stop! Fire guy that does balancing in crossout right now, hes leeching of ya like mom basement's dweller.

TLDR. New sane cabin energy balance: common 9, rare 10, special 11, epic and legendary 12. Reduce amount of PS that light cabins starting from epic add down to normal value of epic medium/heavy cabin.

 

Heavy cabins already sacrifice max speed for increased mass limit. By robbing energy you apply double penalty. Light cabins starting from epic get only +10kph speed over medium cabin for reduced mass and power AND increased PS. Lets not forget about joke cabins like [Steppespider] and [Torero] because they are medium only in name.

 

And why epic and legendary cabins add more PS than medium/heavy ones? Its because of that ancient joke [Cerberus]. Remember when devs chickened out to give light cabins 13 energy and added melee weapon instead(back then rare melee was -1 energy) and raised PS for same amount as adding saw? Guess what! Next light cabin [Werewolf] perk isnt even 1 energy weapon, its just regular perk just like any other epic cabin! And melee isnt even 1 energy anymore either. Now this "smart" game rule of adding more PS to light cabins stayed with us like tapeworm inside fatguy's stomach, like deadend in evolution tree. We are not playing tabletop to add such messed up rules ffs! Just let head of a guy that balances game roll!

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34 minutes ago, Vincefeld said:

TLDR. New sane cabin energy balance: common 9, rare 10, special 11, epic and legendary 12. Reduce amount of PS that light cabins starting from epic add down to normal value of epic medium/heavy cabin.

No. That gave all but the speed advantage to heavy cabins when it was tested while also making everything not a epic cabin worthless to run from the energy issues alone. The idea got rightfully shoot down.

37 minutes ago, Vincefeld said:

Heavy cabins already sacrifice max speed for increased mass limit. By robbing energy you apply double penalty. Light cabins starting from epic get only +10kph speed over medium cabin for reduced mass and power AND increased PS. Lets not forget about joke cabins like [Steppespider] and [Torero] because they are medium only in name.

That's called balance.

39 minutes ago, Vincefeld said:

And why epic and legendary cabins add more PS than medium/heavy ones? Its because of that ancient joke [Cerberus]. Remember when devs chickened out to give light cabins 13 energy and added melee weapon instead(back then rare melee was -1 energy) and raised PS for same amount as adding saw? Guess what! Next light cabin [Werewolf] perk isnt even 1 energy weapon, its just regular perk just like any other epic cabin! And melee isnt even 1 energy anymore either. Now this "smart" game rule of adding more PS to light cabins stayed with us like tapeworm inside fatguy's stomach, like deadend in evolution tree. We are not playing tabletop to add such messed up rules ffs! Just let head of a guy that balances game roll!

All cabins with a such perk got a point of energy removed because of the perk. The harpy has the ammo boost, the werewolf has a drone, the Cerberus has a built-in melee weapon,... . Hell, the favorite released with 11 energy and was buffed to 12 due to following this rule.

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I really should try out the trucker cab. Have one fuzed with the ck on it but only ever made an art style truck with a drake.  

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There's not yet enough Legendary cabins to lower Epics to 11.  Unless some of the Epics are raised to Legendaries, and most of the ones worth that Rank are Pack Exclusives.  (Seriously, Blight has 3 of the best Perks, and almost the same stats as Griffon.)

I agree that cabins need a rework, and so does Energy.  However, dumbing it down that much isn't the way to do it.  Basically, what you propose is a hard nerf to all the Epics except the Heavy ones.

Edited by psiberzerker
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Blue cabins are meant for low PS. 
And at this low PS cars don't need a massive hauling cabin to pull tons and tons of weight, and would rather use a small frame cabin. +1 for growl.
At this low PS, speed also means a lot, since it's bullets and projectiles mayhem with lower overall durability, so fast = better positioning. +1 for growl.
And finally, energy plays the top role here, where people would rather avoid adding generators so not to raise their PS more. + 1 for growl.

These points are all in favor of growl with zero for trucker.


That led to everyone and their pet chiwawa using growls and more growls at low PS. The only ones using trucker are the bots (Who would complain but are too busy driving circles in the base).
In a game where diversity of builds is meant to be a strong point, there is no reason why other blue cabins shouldn't have something to be equally attractive as growl. Mass and Tonnage are not really a thing in low PS where blue cabs are meant to be played anyway.
The only good thing the trucker has is that TRUCKER rhymes with motherfu.......


 

Edited by Battlejack
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56 minutes ago, Battlejack said:

Blue cabins are meant for low PS. 
And at this low PS cars don't need a massive hauling cabin to pull tons and tons of weight, and would rather use a small frame cabin. +1 for growl.
At this low PS, speed also means a lot, since it's bullets and projectiles mayhem with lower overall durability, so fast = better positioning. +1 for growl.
And finally, energy plays the top role here, where people would rather avoid adding generators so not to raise their PS more. + 1 for growl.

These points are all in favor of growl with zero for trucker.


That led to everyone and their pet chiwawa using growls and more growls at low PS. The only ones using trucker are the bots (Who would complain but are too busy driving circles in the base).
In a game where diversity of builds is meant to be a strong point, there is no reason why other blue cabins shouldn't have something to be equally attractive as growl. Mass and Tonnage are not really a thing in low PS where blue cabs are meant to be played anyway.
The only good thing the trucker has is that TRUCKER rhymes with motherfu.......


 

I mostly agree, but for some reason I’m recently seeing a lot of trucker cabs in low PS. Maybe new players? Anyway, some of them are doing ok. At the moment, tanking actually seems more viable in low PS, since there are fewer alpha damage weapons to worry about. 
I prefer light and fast in low PS, but that’s just more fun for me. I probably do as well in that PS range with heavy builds.

I do think heavy cabs would have more energy in general. What’s the point of the tonnage and mass limit if you can’t power the guns you can carry?

Edited by poony4u2
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1 hour ago, psiberzerker said:

There's not yet enough Legendary cabins to lower Epics to 11.  Unless some of the Epics are raised to Legendaries, and most of the ones worth that Rank are Pack Exclusives.  (Seriously, Blight has 3 of the best Perks, and almost the same stats as Griffon.)

I agree that cabins need a rework, and so does Energy.  However, dumbing it down that much isn't the way to do it.  Basically, what you propose is a hard nerf to all the Epics except the Heavy ones.

what? i never said anything about lowering Epic cabin energy to 11. Epic and legendary should just stay 12 for now.

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A while back, devs shared plans to make cabins have consistent energy within their rarity. This would have come with stat changes.

Players disagreed with a few of those stat changes. The entire idea got thrown out.

I still think it could be done right. Just re-evaluate some of those planned stat changes.

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45 minutes ago, DominusPericulum said:

A while back, devs shared plans to make cabins have consistent energy within their rarity. This would have come with stat changes.

Players disagreed with a few of those stat changes. The entire idea got thrown out.

I still think it could be done right. Just re-evaluate some of those planned stat changes.

How so?

Because from what I saw, heavy cabins would get the energy they'd need to be much better than the other cabins except when it comes to speed. They'd need to have their stats nerfed to the extent that they'd effectively be medium cabins for energy by rarity to work unless you have a better way to make it balanced. And that's without dealing with rarity issues, a race to tehe top won't be a pleasant form of balance.

Edited by SIGMA920
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4 hours ago, Vincefeld said:

TLDR. New sane cabin energy balance: common 9, rare 10, special 11, epic and legendary 12. Reduce amount of PS that light cabins starting from epic add down to normal value of epic medium/heavy cabin.

+1 :good:

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The way to get around that is to extend the difference in speed and mass/tonnage between light/medium/heavy.

Same energy, but light can go a lot faster, heavy can carry a lot more, and medium is finally distinct.

People just freaked out because they’re locked into their own meta.

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8 hours ago, DominusPericulum said:

A while back, devs shared plans to make cabins have consistent energy within their rarity. This would have come with stat changes.

Players disagreed with a few of those stat changes. The entire idea got thrown out.

I still think it could be done right. Just re-evaluate some of those planned stat changes.

I'm hopeful this energy rework is still in the table, but it'll simply be introduced later on. The devs mentioned they didn't want to put it in just yet because there are so many other kinks to iron out first. We'll prob see the rework later on.

 

On paper it was really good move: All epic cabins got a buff. Light cabins got extra mass, medium cabins got extra speed and heavy cabins got extra energy. The only cabin which loses is the Growl which is an outlier with its 11 energy on Rare rarity.

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40 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

The only cabin which loses is the Growl which is an outlier with its 11 energy on Rare rarity.

Growl isnt only outlier...  Duster got 9 en despite Docker only having 7.

-Epic/Legend Light cabins should have 13 en with current targem "logic". Oh that will break the game! Ofc it will and why it should be different for rare/common tier?!

-What the heck is with extra PS on light cabins starting from Epic? It doesnt make any sense to any person i met. Medium and heavy cabins have normal PS values for rarity

-Steppespider has 12 en despite having 16k mass limit and going 60kph. Its Heavy, but named "medium" so it can have 12 energy. Scam to sell pack.

-Torero is "Medium" cabin that goes 100kph and has medium mass limit. I love packs.

-Only reason why heavy cabins are barely viable in pvp are dmg focused perks to compensate for -1 en. Humpback+25% dmg, Icebox+15%dmg, Echo +50% reload speed when activated. Honestly targem should just shut up, stop pretending smart and give them 12 en and rework\nerf their perks. ITS A CRUTCH.

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9 hours ago, poony4u2 said:

The way to get around that is to extend the difference in speed and mass/tonnage between light/medium/heavy.

Same energy, but light can go a lot faster, heavy can carry a lot more, and medium is finally distinct.

People just freaked out because they’re locked into their own meta.

Light cabins are already close to the max you can reach normally. I responded negatively because the idea of universal energy by rarity was not going to work and would have destroyed the game.

2 hours ago, Spedemix said:

I'm hopeful this energy rework is still in the table, but it'll simply be introduced later on. The devs mentioned they didn't want to put it in just yet because there are so many other kinks to iron out first. We'll prob see the rework later on.

 

On paper it was really good move: All epic cabins got a buff. Light cabins got extra mass, medium cabins got extra speed and heavy cabins got extra energy. The only cabin which loses is the Growl which is an outlier with its 11 energy on Rare rarity.

It wasn't a good move. It would have created a disparity in cabins based on rarity (A bad approach to balance!) and heavy cabins would have been better than everything else overall (Because who cares about speed when you have everything else.).

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6 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

Light cabins are already close to the max you can reach normally. I responded negatively because the idea of universal energy by rarity was not going to work and would have destroyed the game.

It wasn't a good move. It would have created a disparity in cabins based on rarity (A bad approach to balance!) and heavy cabins would have been better than everything else overall (Because who cares about speed when you have everything else.).

I’m talking about raising the cap of light cabins. Instead of 100 max, more like 110 (plus engine boost. 
Bump medium up a bit too.

For me, that would make me use all cabin sizes.

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31 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

I’m talking about raising the cap of light cabins. Instead of 100 max, more like 110 (plus engine boost. 
Bump medium up a bit too.

For me, that would make me use all cabin sizes.

The max you can normally reach is 120 km/h. Lights cabins having a max of 110 by default wouldn't change much nor would buffing mediums to 100.

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2 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

The max you can normally reach is 120 km/h. Lights cabins having a max of 110 by default wouldn't change much nor would buffing mediums to 100.

I don’t think you are understanding what I am proposing.

They currently do a max of 120 only because that’s the maximum a Cheetah can boost the top speed of a 100kmh cabin. If that cabin were starting at 110kmh, a Cheetah would boost it to something like 130, which would make a big difference. It would definitely keep me playing light cabins after heavy cabins get 12 energy.

Also, acceleration in wheeled builds is tied directly to the top speed. So boosting the top speed of a medium cabin even a bit will make it feel much more distinct from heavy cabins. 
 

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32 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

I don’t think you are understanding what I am proposing.

They currently do a max of 120 only because that’s the maximum a Cheetah can boost the top speed of a 100kmh cabin. If that cabin were starting at 110kmh, a Cheetah would boost it to something like 130, which would make a big difference. It would definitely keep me playing light cabins after heavy cabins get 12 energy.

Also, acceleration in wheeled builds is tied directly to the top speed. So boosting the top speed of a medium cabin even a bit will make it feel much more distinct from heavy cabins. 
 

The 120 limit is a game engine limit, under normal conditions you can't go faster than it.

Edited by SIGMA920

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18 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

The 120 limit is a game engine limit, under normal conditions you can't go faster than it.

That’s not true. Easy to break 120 with boosters. 120 is just the limit on pure engine/cabin, because there is no cabin with a base speed higher than 100. 
In race mode I’m spending a lot of time well above 120, with just a single blastoff.

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10 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

That’s not true. Easy to break 120 with boosters. 120 is just the limit on pure engine/cabin, because there is no cabin with a base speed higher than 100. 
In race mode I’m spending a lot of time well above 120, with just a single blastoff.

Using boosters or in the race brawl is not a normal condition. 120 is the max you can go because of the game engine, you cap out at it if you're not using boosters.

Edited by SIGMA920

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46 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

Using boosters or in the race brawl is not a normal condition. 120 is the max you can go because of the game engine, you cap out at it if you're not using boosters.

If it was the game engine imposing that limit, boosters wouldn’t be able to pass it.

The only reason engines can’t get you faster than that is because the current top limit of cabins. The game engine can clearly handle higher speeds. That means the limit was set there by devs for their own balancing issues.

Or are you one of the devs and do you have inside intel on the technical limitations of the engine?

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10 minutes ago, poony4u2 said:

If it was the game engine imposing that limit, boosters wouldn’t be able to pass it.

The only reason engines can’t get you faster than that is because the current top limit of cabins. The game engine can clearly handle higher speeds. That means the limit was set there by devs for their own balancing issues.

Or are you one of the devs and do you have inside intel on the technical limitations of the engine?

It's the limit because once you go fast enough so much as a tapping the ground causes you to take damage. It's why tusk rammers are so fragile even with high health and missing your target will cause you to take a lot of damage. Slam dunk builds work on the same principal.

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59 minutes ago, SIGMA920 said:

It's the limit because once you go fast enough so much as a tapping the ground causes you to take damage. It's why tusk rammers are so fragile even with high health and missing your target will cause you to take a lot of damage. Slam dunk builds work on the same principal.

That self damage doesn’t happen until you get well above 200kmh. Cars can handle 130kmh just find, I do it all the time. The only reason engines can’t get you there is that they add a fixed percentage to whatever your cabin speed is. Higher cabin speed means engines will add a higher boost to that top speed. 
I’ve experimented a lot with the speed and acceleration mechanics of the game. There’s no reason light cabins couldn’t have a higher top speed, except that it would make them even more OP if you didn’t also help out epic heavy cabins by giving them 12 energy. 

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