_cottton_

[OT] "Do you sometimes talk about things you don't understand?"

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Just have to post this here because it fits so well into the forum climate :D
When i was young i had to do some psychological tests on a job interview.
First you answered questions (written)
and then psychologist talked with you about the result.

And i remember one question i never got asked before:
(german) "Reden sie manchmal über Dinge, von denen Sie nichts verstehen?"
(translated) "Do you sometimes talk about things you don't understand?"

That was a life changer for me. When you are young you want to be part of something.
And ofc you talk about something as you were an expert, like there is no tomorrow :D

But since then i kind of woke up. In some situations i caught my self starting to talk about things again i actually dont know much.
More and more i learned to say: "I dont know".

And thats the key. If you can say "i dont know" then you do not talk trash. Nobody can say you are a liar or w/e.
Some can say you dont know, but thats what you did, so ... no point to doing so.
But its not just about not being a liar. Its about the direction the discussion goes.  

Now, if you actually care about the topic you dont understand
then go learn about it. And as soon you talk about it and in middle of it its getting deeper and you dont really know ....  say: "i dont (really) know", and go learn more about it.
You dont have to know everything. But you should not pretend to do so.

Also: ask. The only ppl that are stupid are those who dont share information.
If you say "i dont know, how is this done?" then you are not stupid. You just dont know yet and expect input.

 

"I was wrong" or "You are right, ..." is also a good idea to adapt.
Nobody is perfect. And if you realize you were wrong, then say it. Nothing wrong with that.

Its way worse to proceed the wrong thing over and over again just because you are to "proud" to admit it once.

---

For some this may seem a little obvious. But for some ... they just dont know yet =)

---

How does this fit into the forum?
I decided to not answer this because this could be taken wrong.

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6 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

Stop projecting!

 

17 minutes ago, _cottton_ said:

I decided to not answer this because this could be taken wrong.

Wow. Not going ... na.

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28 minutes ago, _cottton_ said:

Nobody can say you are a liar or w/e.

Of course they can.  They can say they did your mom, too.

Great post, by the way, but being good is no guarantee that they will treat you as an honest person.  It's too easy to call someone a liar, or worse.

I'm reminded of a simpler game, Knights, and Knaves.  Knights always tell the truth, and Knaves always lie.  So, you ask "Are you a Knight, or a Knave," and everyone answers Knight.  

In the real world, everyone lies, and everyone tells the truth.  You can be pessimistic, and assume that everyone is lying until they offer some evidence, or you can think about what they say, and eventually understand their PoV.  

There's also Empathy.  An opinion is neither the truth, nor a lie, but a lot of opinions like "This sucks," are argued as the Word of God's honest Truth.

Edited by psiberzerker
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Socrate would be so proud of you

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I think it's one of the biggest problems in world, that people constantly talk about things they don't understand. I mean it's ok to talk about things you don't understand, that's how you learn, but it's important not to give false info. If you're not sure, then say "i'm not sure, but I THINK this and that". Speculating about things is perfectly fine, but it's the fact that people talk about things that they don't understand, like it was their profession. That's quite annoying.

However sometimes it happens by accident too, so called "Mandela Effect" where you truly believe that you know exactly how something is, yet if you look it up, you are totally shocked that you was wrong. This is why it's important to question things, even question yourself and occasionally look things up on google and other similar sources, but don't always believe what's said online. Don't forget that only about 60% of world has access to internet and only maybe like 5% of those 60% actually take advantage of looking up things.

I often get into arguements with people who are either too lazy or dumb to look something up online, they just start argueing and talk nonsense. Haters are good example, they just talk nonsense without even understanding why they say the things they say. Since it's on crossout forums, here's a good example. Long ago when we didn't have M2 Contact module and no Rift module, I said that fusion builds are autistic and useless (because it takes 30-60 seconds to put it together and back then matches were only 3 minutes, instead of 5 + you had to WASTE 2 energy on pyre to drop the legs that held the fusion part up, so it's total waste and useless). And now lot of foolish players keep coming back at me with this quote and saying "but yOu SaId FuSiOn BuIlDs ArE aUtIsTiC". This is very good example of "don't talk about things you don't understand".

Also what I find very irritating, is how on most forums people constantly go offtopic and just start talking total nonsense and trash. Like you ask something specific and then bunch of people just post trash like "omg why you want to do that?" or like "HUH WHAT?? WHY YOU DOING THAT? NOOO YOU DOING IT WRONG" .. either reply with details or don't reply at all. they just try to act smart by going totally offtopic. You see this on Crossout forums all the time too. You make a post and then bunch of people will instantly go offtopic, talking some trash and irrelevant nonsense (just wait, you see this happen very soon when certain haters see my post).

You know there's a good old saying, that goes something like "Keep your mouth shut and you make yourself look smarter". That's the saying that those people should follow. If you have nothing relevant or smart to say about the topic, then just keep your mouth shut and don't talk at all.

Edited by Sethioz
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However, nobody really knows it all.  People make mistakes, and you don't realize when you're ignorant.  You got some false information, there's some very convincing arguments about the world being flat, and also Poes that act completely serious, even when they're parodying a whack job.

So, advice like "Better to keep your mouth shut, and be thought a fool than open it, and remove all doubt" means Try to be right all the time.

Everyone's trying to be right all the time, but it's an impossible standard.  I agree, it's a problem, and I'm not the only one that suffers from it, but even authorities on the subject of let's say Medicine believed for centuries that the brain cooled the blood.  That the Earth was the center of the universe, and all of history revolved around Europe.  

Ignorance is the default state.  There's infinitely more that we don't know than we can ever possibly understand, and that's, a problem.  Not one that there's a solution for, though.  We search for more knowledge, and better understanding, with the knowledge that we will never be done.

Edited by psiberzerker
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52 minutes ago, Sethioz said:

If you have nothing relevant or smart to say about the topic, then just keep your mouth shut and don't talk at all.

...

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1 hour ago, psiberzerker said:

there's some very convincing arguments about the world being flat

tell me one in todays society :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

tell me one in todays society :lol:

I dont think he meant it that way.
But you cut off the quote to make it look like ... well, ... . Perhaps you dont even know what you did wrong.
Ppl tend to "fast read" and see what they want expect to see.

1 hour ago, psiberzerker said:

You got some false information, there's some very convincing arguments about the world being flat, and also Poes that act completely serious, even when they're parodying a whack job.

As i understand it:
[if] You got some false information,
[then] there's some very convincing arguments about the world being flat, and also Poes that act completely serious, even when they're parodying a whack job.

Good example how fake news get spread.

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14 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

Tell me one in today's society :lol:

Honestly, you have to be able to ignore obvious evidence like the sun setting ever night, and rising the next day, or being able to see farther from a tall building than you can from the ground.  If you can't do that, then no argument is going to be convincing in the face of such evidence.

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16 minutes ago, _cottton_ said:

I dont think he meant it that way.

i wasnt talking to you

 

8 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

you have to be able to ignore obvious evidence

agree thanks, there is no excuse nowadays, its pretty simple to disproof even with the simplest of tools.

 

 

Edited by Beni_Stingray1
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11 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

There is no excuse nowadays, its pretty simple to disproof even with the simplest of tools.

I wasn't making excuses, it was just mentioned in passing.  However, a real estate mogul with a career of embezzlement got the seat of greatest power, selling a construction plan based on xenophobia, because people didn't trust the woman he was running against.

maxresdefault.jpg

This guy, cheating at cards, poolside at his Miami resort, has nuclear launch codes, and the keys to Fort Knox.

There's also convincing arguments that Auric Goldfinger was the lesser evil.  Despite all the evidence that he's a Bond Villain.

Edited by psiberzerker
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8 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

I wasn't making excuses

where have i said youre making excuses?

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Talking about things you don't understand is fine, it gives room to learn something new, the problem is people talking about things they don't understand AND thinking they have the absolute truth about it :lol:

Edited by xCrossFaith

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I think that what _cottton_ is saying is that it's fine to be in a discussion on a topic you don't understand, as long as you don't make out that your views are fact. I love learning new stuff. "Apologies for the naive question, but..." is a really powerful learning tool.

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1 hour ago, fftunes4real said:

Fun fact: the universe is pretty flat...

No not really, our galaxy is more or less flat, yes, because it spins, hence the name spiral galaxy, but our universe is spherical, it expands in all directions at the same speed from the point the big bang happend.

We dont know whats outside our universe, we cannot see further than the observable universe.

Yes it could be possible that there are multiple universes layered flat but thats all theory, we have absolutly zero chance to ever observe that because were limited by the speed of light.

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1 hour ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

No not really, our galaxy is more or less flat, yes, because it spins, hence the name spiral galaxy, but our universe is spherical, it expands in all directions at the same speed from the point the big bang happend.

My fault, i meant galaxy actually.

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On 7/3/2020 at 4:57 PM, Sethioz said:

However sometimes it happens by accident too, so called "Mandela Effect" where you truly believe that you know exactly how something is, yet if you look it up, you are totally shocked that you was wrong. This is why it's important to question things, even question yourself and occasionally look things up on google and other similar sources, but don't always believe what's said online.

 

I'm calling Vektors Vektors till I get tired of this forum or banned.

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On 7/3/2020 at 4:27 PM, _cottton_ said:

Just have to post this here because it fits so well into the forum climate :D
When i was young i had to do some psychological tests on a job interview.
First you answered questions (written)
and then psychologist talked with you about the result.

And i remember one question i never got asked before:
(german) "Reden sie manchmal über Dinge, von denen Sie nichts verstehen?"
(translated) "Do you sometimes talk about things you don't understand?"

That was a life changer for me. When you are young you want to be part of something.
And ofc you talk about something as you were an expert, like there is no tomorrow :D

But since then i kind of woke up. In some situations i caught my self starting to talk about things again i actually dont know much.
More and more i learned to say: "I dont know".

And thats the key. If you can say "i dont know" then you do not talk trash. Nobody can say you are a liar or w/e.
Some can say you dont know, but thats what you did, so ... no point to doing so.
But its not just about not being a liar. Its about the direction the discussion goes.  

Now, if you actually care about the topic you dont understand
then go learn about it. And as soon you talk about it and in middle of it its getting deeper and you dont really know ....  say: "i dont (really) know", and go learn more about it.
You dont have to know everything. But you should not pretend to do so.

Also: ask. The only ppl that are stupid are those who dont share information.
If you say "i dont know, how is this done?" then you are not stupid. You just dont know yet and expect input.

 

"I was wrong" or "You are right, ..." is also a good idea to adapt.
Nobody is perfect. And if you realize you were wrong, then say it. Nothing wrong with that.

Its way worse to proceed the wrong thing over and over again just because you are to "proud" to admit it once.

---

For some this may seem a little obvious. But for some ... they just dont know yet =)

---

How does this fit into the forum?
I decided to not answer this because this could be taken wrong.

Things got philosophical real quick:D , you are correct in what u say though

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bump

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Well this is tricky....

 

When I honestly don't have anything to say about the matter, I keep my mouth shut. Hence you don't see me post in every single thread, even in some very popular ones. Or at best I'll write some very short post that covers what little I had to say about the matter.

 

Like here and now. :)

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