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[Developer blog] Crossout development: how balance changes are made


Woodyrojo
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Since we are talking about suggestions and feedback, there is one I propose , is that bots on the garage scale their PS up according to our car, so we can use them to train and check our build at higher PS, even with our leviathan in the garage's yard. Right now those bots are always around 1500 PS and are obsolete too early in the game.

Here's the suggestion post for reference, maybe @Beta_Angel could moderate it and let it open for feedback ?

 

Thanks !

EDIT : and thanks for the reminder about hidden post, here's the full suggestion. Please go to the original post after mod moderation and give feedback whether you like this idea or find a potential future problem with it, thanks again. Click "Spoiler" below to expand :

Spoiler
Error report
Describe problem and what you saw (I use the bug report template for clarity but this is a suggestion - there is no bug error, at least I believe the actual situation is by design.)

The garage battle bots have a fixed low PS estimated of 1000 - 1500 PS, while the player's vehicle constantly evolve, specially in early levels where required reputation to level-up is low.

In consequence garage bots are obsoletes very fast and we can't use them for quick training and vehicle testing between vehicle adjustments.
What you expected to see Garage bots should have scaling PS like everything else in the game, so they can always deal relevant damage and endure more than one shot before being severely crippled and defenseless.

Maybe the four garage bots should always have a PS around a tier/half of the player's PS car, with a minimum of 1000 PS (basic starter car with 4 wheels a cab and a couple of guns).

This suggestion could also help testing leviathan, useful idea specially if Clan War Leviathan stays programmed.
Conditions in which error reproduce Always when invoking battle bots in the garage's test drive area by pressing the default key 'o'
Problem details Garage visitors can have too much or less PS and can have cars for a specific purpose (art, raid, race, unfinished cars, or too powerful CW cars) and their frequency is limited, so they are not very good for vehicle testing/training.

Adding a possibility to use stored blueprints as garage bots with a ticked case could be also useful.
Frequency of reproduction always
Time of bug  

 

Edited by Charlie9204
adding suggestions content
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42 minutes ago, Charlie9204 said:

 

 

Only you can see a post that you created and was not yet moderated. Maybe you could post it as a "quote"?

Quotes can expose hidden text and hidden threads stay hidden and only mods can see them.

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Get to work devs we all know  how balance changes are made!
 

mr-burns-monkeys-typewriters1-640x381-600x357.jpg

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@Mad_Lancer Please explain what you want to balance and how to do it.

If players could actually implement their suggestions to the game Crossout would explode in a matter of days.

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Nice insight but some things are obvious and don't require data like Kapkans hold you for too long, Porcs are too strong for only 3 energy, Crickets do too much damage for their rarity, and forward facing Mandrakes are an overpowered broken joke that ruin Clan Wars.

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Soon they will balance like this:

"We noticed that the Barrier IX drone causes no damage, so, according to our statistics, it needs a buff. Increased duration by 5000%" :016:

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9 hours ago, nunezdjr said:

¡¡¡¡FINALMENTE!!!! Alguien está de acuerdo conmigo en el camino confuso y la estética que el juego ha tomado desde los niños de Dawns. En el futuro, cuando no quede nada y peleemos por restos y agua que apenas sobrevivan, ¿por qué hay una facción entera que quema miles de galones de combustible para reactores verticales? ¿De dónde vienen las armas láser? ¿Star Trek? Porque eso es en lo que se está convirtiendo este juego. ¿Dónde está la lógica? Antes, las cabinas de recogida tenían un mejor tonelaje y estadísticas que los taxis como el hot rod y el murciélago. Ahora tenemos un favorito (vaz) y un torero (Lamborghini) que puede transportar tanto peso y tener una estúpida hp. Superan opciones como el oso. ¿A dónde va este juego? ¿Está tratando de ser Star Trek? ¿O está tratando de estar loco, Max? No hay en el medio aquí. 

Ehhh sorry google traductor

Crossout is MadMax but with "aliens" the equation would be "sector7" but post apocalyptic, the story was proposed this way from the beginning ... the virus started because of some UFOs (maybe) in the company where those who would become the "horsemen of the apocalypse", the mutations of the characters, are the fault of this alien virus ... hovers, plasma weapons, even spider legs, are the result of those UFOs that fell before the crossout and were to be used as weapons for the steppe wolves ... the problem is that the story is hidden, but there it is ... in fact the nomadic faction is related to the hidden and the alien, its elite faction the children of dawn prove it ...
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please fix tracks so they turn good again i don't under stand why they they got a turning nerf they were working good now they turn like crap . tracks should turn on a dime no matter how wide or skinny the vehicle is like do you people even know how skid steer works? please fix the tracks they are completely ruined and people barely use them now because they are so bad. when will they get fixed?

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In my opinion there are a few items that are too strong for their rarity.. I would like to see changes made to them to bring them balance..

First off the KAPKAN.. This item clearly jumps out of the epic category, because its so effective in what it does and low energy cost.

You can equip multiple modules in your car making the maps a spider web trap for your enemies, which make them pretty much easy prey for you, or your allies..

Suggested changes:

  • Limit kapkan to 1 per car.
  • Reduce the module life spam from 1 min to 30s..
  • Reduce the trap time by 20% or 30%

 

There is a few weapons that were clearly exposed having to good of a performance in last week test of the leviathans in clan wars..

This weapons are the Crickets, Flute, Retcher.

The Cricket.. Clearly the weapon with the biggest overall damage in game, and its a epic class weapon

  • Remove projectile push impact (weapon this strong doesn't need an extra perk)
  • Lower alpha damage
  • Change the perk of the weapon from 100% for every 100m to 50%

The FLUTE.. Another item jumping out of category with incredible hi damage, and unfair reload speed.

Suggested changes:

  • Remove projectile push impact (weapon this strong doesn't need an extra perk)
  • Lower explosive damage
  • Make the start of reload of the weapon start after projectile explodes and not after its fired.

The Retcher.. This weapon has the same problem the spark had before, where you can shoot through the parts of your own car.

  • Fix the bug where you can shoot through the parts of your own car.
  • Remove projectile push impact (weapon this strong doesn't need an extra perk)

 

Also shotguns in this game are clearly overpowered weapons.. There isn't a single PS class that you can play that you don't run into players using them and for good reason.. They are simply to effective..

I think the problem lies with Coolers and Radiators, that makes it so the weapon can fire too much..

In my opinion shotguns should be a weapon with hi damage, but low fire capacity.. But this isn't what happens now when you can add multiple coolers and radiators to your car..

Example:

I take a MACE shotgun and i'm able to fire 4 shots before weapon over heats and cools down for 1.5s before i'm able to shoot again.. This is fine..

Now i take the same MACE shotgun, but i add 1 RN seal radiator and 1 shiver cooler and i'm able to shoot 8 shoots and cool down for 0.8s before i'm able to shoot again.

This is a massive, massive difference with only 2 energy points difference.. And remember that i can add has many radiators or coolers as i want.. And this works like this for every shotgun.

Most cars with shotguns run with at least 2 radiators and 1 cooler making you able to shoot 12 shoots before a 0.8s cool-down.. With this much firing at the damage a shotgun has, you can pretty much take down any car fast and with ease and go find the next victim..

In conclusion i think this module system doesn't work well for shotguns and needs to be changed to bring balance to this class weapon..

For the Haters that read my opinion and think i'm just being impartial because i don't like this weapons that i mention above, and only wanna see them nerfed, the only thing i can say is i currently have all of them, and play them regularly, and i just wanna see them at level with other items in the game.

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34 minutes ago, Girigoto said:

First off the KAPKAN.. This item clearly jumps out of the epic category, because its so effective in what it does and low energy cost.

It also already costs as much as a Legendary on the Market.

To me, the weapons that are impossible to Balance are the ones where it's not just 1 thing, it's 3:

Porcupines are the best Grenade Launcher, the best Mine Layer, and I can't really say that any one of the 3 Incendiaries (Incinerator, and Mandrake) are the "best," but those are all Force Multipliers, which makes every other weapon more effective, and can be used for Area Denial...  It seems like I'm rambling here, but really, I'm just listing off what Porcupines are good for.  Better than Retchers, Kings, and Incinerator, which is okay if you're comparing a Relic to AN Epic, but I'm not.  I'm comparing it to 3.  

The reason why these are impossible to Balance is, because if you nerf the Blast to less than Retcher, the Fire Puddles to less than Incinerator, and the fuse time (Where it's deployed) to less than King Mines, you still have the fact that Retcher, and Incinerator both cost 6 Energy.   So, instead of an Incinerator, you can have 2 Porcupines, and you don't need a Retcher, and King Mine.  

You pretty much just need a Kapkan, so they'll hold still while you spam them to death.

Edited by psiberzerker
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On 7/16/2020 at 1:57 PM, HenriqueMiranda said:

would be nice if we could get access to one of the "main" test servers, where we could take a look at all the stuff that is not availible for players, the stuff you are testing and also scrapped ideas

 

Oh yeah, i'd love to take a look at scrapped ideas

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1 hour ago, atomic94 said:

please fix tracks so they turn good again i don't under stand why they they got a turning nerf they were working good now they turn like crap . tracks should turn on a dime no matter how wide or skinny the vehicle is like do you people even know how skid steer works? please fix the tracks they are completely ruined and people barely use them now because they are so bad. when will they get fixed?

Yeah. The turn radius for tracks is horrible now. What in their bright minds sparked the idea that tracks ware too good and needed to have the turn radius nerfed? 
Oh wait, let me guess... the statistic.... ?
Let's be serious though, they have ruined the drive with tracks with how they have nerfed the turn radius. It's just bad in a fight.

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If there really is a win loss graph, you guys must not be using it. All I see are 2 Bigfoot sts, 2-4x racing period twin wheel, 3 -4 mace or thunderbolts (breakers too) and either a torrero or favorite. And nothing has been changed with any of these parts for balancing purposes in the year or 2 they have been dominating 

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5 hours ago, Petr0_Sanchez said:

Ehhh sorry google traductor


Crossout is MadMax but with "aliens" the equation would be "sector7" but post apocalyptic, the story was proposed this way from the beginning ... the virus started because of some UFOs (maybe) in the company where those who would become the "horsemen of the apocalypse", the mutations of the characters, are the fault of this alien virus ... hovers, plasma weapons, even spider legs, are the result of those UFOs that fell before the crossout and were to be used as weapons for the steppe wolves ... the problem is that the story is hidden, but there it is ... in fact the nomadic faction is related to the hidden and the alien, its elite faction the children of dawn prove it ...

So you think that Star Trek should be in mad max?  I get that aliens exist but if you go to hard truck apocalypse which is set 100 years after crossout, there are barely any signs of aliens, or hovers as a whole. Much less laser cannons or anything so that means aliens have not made contact for At least 100 more years.  Someone from crossout just stuck a vhs of Star Trek up their butt along with a pistol and put came dawns children 

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1 hour ago, nunezdjr said:

I get that aliens exist but if you go to hard truck apocalypse which is set 100 years after crossout, there are barely any signs of aliens, or hovers as a whole.

Hovers don't exist in that game, sure, but near the end of it the most common enemy you encounter are these:

bdefe5187ddca0977b4b9385d60bdc40e4b9831c

Totally not alien and futuristic looking.

Edited by lucashc90
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18 hours ago, nunezdjr said:

Is it trying to be Star Trek? Or is it trying to be mad max? There’s no in between here. 

There is, it's Crossout. You are not judge to tell what's right and what's wrong. The only problem here is there is no explenation of these high tech stuff now.

If an author wants, he can add almost anything he wants and you are not the one who should make decisions how correct it is. If I wnat to create stories in world of westerns with steampunk technology, magic and dinosaurs, I can do it. And noone could tell me it's bad thing...

This is not Mad Max. This is Crossout. You have to live with that.

Edited by Waughan27131
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Why it is so difficult for people to understand that Crossout has its own lore and mechanics and that there is no use in trying to hijack a game that has been around for 4 years and trying to turn it in something it was not supposed to be? THREE YEARS after hovers were introduced and people STILL think that they are going to be removed if they offend the devs, whine in the forums and/or shame the game for not being MadMaxy enough will bend everyone's knee to their willing.

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4 hours ago, nunezdjr said:

I get that aliens exist but if you go to hard truck apocalypse which is set 100 years after crossout, there are barely any signs of aliens, or hovers as a whole. 

Are there any signs of Aliens in Crossout?  Okay, the ravagers, but those could be Mutant Cyborgs, from Earth.  (Or the Dawn's Children Martian Colony.)

It's like UFOs.  You see lights in the sky, and assume that it must be Aliens from another planet, then it's Aliens, not a UFO.  At best, it's an AFO.  Alien Flying Object.

Occam's Teacup:  The simplest explanation is

alens.jpg

Because it rests in a Saucer.

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İ am still waiting for a horde mode with re-spawn/repair mechanic against ravegers... Defend a for x amount time  build turrets (place able by a custom key) feed generator from b to keep turrets up, used the drops from revagers to repair defended thing , more the time passes by more the reward you get , dev made + exhibition vehicles painted with revanger paint + random revanger customization will spawn depending the  team's ps etc....

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12 minutes ago, berkayxj8 said:

İ am still waiting for a horde mode with re-spawn/repair mechanic against ravegers... Defend a for x amount time  build turrets (place able by a custom key) feed generator from b to keep turrets up, used the drops from revagers to repair defended thing , more the time passes by more the reward you get , dev made + exhibition vehicles painted with revanger paint + random revanger customization will spawn depending the  team's ps etc....

Basicaly you want a TF2 "Mann VS Machine" mode. A'ight, 'is cool.

https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Mann_vs._Machine

Edited by lucashc90
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@Ka1deron @Woodyrojo

Category: "show me on these stats where he hurt you"

Hard electronic raid:

image.thumb.png.c99e52772ba9e9b84da77c18

very "agressive" 3x porc glass hover (i mention glass because hard raids became a joke and they are damn fast)
EDIT: by "agressive" i mean he is running in front of us to get all the kills. No way to keep up with him and he does not care due to hard raids actually totally ez raids.
vs 
3 skilled players with
arbiters
retchers
incinerators.

From the points you can imagine how many electronics we loose.
 

Would you like to check the stats for raids too pls?
Thanks.

Edited by _cottton_
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38 minutes ago, _cottton_ said:

Would you like to check the stats for raids too pls?

+1.  I started using Incinerator to compete with Porcupines/Hovers.  (Wheels to keep ahead of the Hovers.)  

You know what happened?  My Clanmates started using Recthers.

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Bots rushing to enemy base to be wrecked and leave team half numbered in secs or staying at base doing nothing is one fo the cancers in this game. Make 4vs 4 without bots (same waiting time) instead of 8 vs 8. And that is a major change game needs, not tweak this tweak that, after retweak to what was before etc.

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