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psiberzerker

"You don't play Clan Wars."

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This is in Off topic Counter, because that's exactly what this is.  A Counter to whatever you don't like, to attack the speaker, instead of the Topic.  The argument, I say something about Tilted Mandrakes for example, and the Clansmen step in to point out that you never get a chance to attack them In Clan Wars, because of the other players on the team.

That doesn't have anything to do with the Tilted Mandrake Build.  (Which is limited by the fact that 2 Mandrakes cost 16 Energy, so you can't have a Carjack, and the only way to keep them from tipping over is adding Hovers.)  It has everything to do with Clan Wars being the Point of Balance.  The fulcrum, the Axis that every discussion revolves around.

Which just isn't true.  Look at a Lever, the Fulcrum isn't on 1 end, then it wouldn't be Balanced.  It's in the middle.  Now, look at a Wheel, and Axel.  If the Axel is offset, to a Tangent, then it's not a Wheel, it's a Cam.  It's not Balanced.

In any balance discussion, it's not the High End.  It's not the relics, it's not the 15,000+ Power Score where only the top tier plays.  It's in the middle.  It's in the Epics.  It's not in Clan Wars, which is a limited access, limited time Brawl.

It's in Missions.  That's the default Gameplay.  You have to grind Missions to earn Resources, clear daily Challenges, and progress to the Endgame.  Clanwars is the Endgame.  However, because some players have been at it for years, have already gotten to the point where they don't have to grind anything.  When a new "OP Cashgrab Pay to Win" Pack comes out, they don't have to spend a penny, because they have enough Coins to buy it directly from the market.

Those are the ones that have a valid opinion.  On anything. Game Balance?  "You don't play Clan Wars, so you don't know what you're talking about."  Wheels?  "Hovers."  Seal Clubbing?  "STFU n00b."

Think about that last example, real quick.  The people who have the most valid opinion, on the practice of using Porcupines against Sprinters are the ones with the Uranium to craft Porcupines.  The ones with the most valid opinion on Specials when they came out are the ones who don't use them, because Goblins are not viable in Clan Wars.  

The members that talk most about low PS are definitely not the Seal Clubbers that use Relics to punish "Aces."  They're the ones that know what they're talking about, because CW.  How in the hell does @BabylonsBurning know so much about low (Below 4k) PS Meta?

It's certainly not from Seal Clubbing, right?  It's not like @Bobbill12345 attacks new players in game, the way he attacks new members on the forum.  It's the Dev Team, that doesn't even play their own game, who don't want to see their game succeed, and make a profit.

"Cashgrab cashgrab cashgrab!"  From the team of players, with inventories filled with Golden Relics, and a pile of Coins to buy whatever they want off the market.

Well, I'm sorry, but all of this is Off Topic.  We came here to talk about Crossout.  Not just the only Brawl that the most valid players play the most.

Edited by psiberzerker
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CW is used for reference in balance debates coz everything works in missions. CW is used for reference in balance debates coz to have success there, you can't be completely clueless.

Watching CW on youtube is like watching a food program on tv. It may give you a job on McDonalds, but not somewhere listed in the Michelin guide. There's a reason for that.

Sometimes it's nice to "have a talk between grownups" and not need to explain everything.

*Not aiming at you in particular, just answering generally.

**When talking about other persons, it would be nice if you tag them. Like this: @Babylonsburning @Bobbill12345 .

 

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8 hours ago, *Jomar_SL said:

CW is used for reference in balance debates coz everything works in missions.

So, mixing shotguns, and cannons works in Missions?  Maybe Patrol, but not PvP.

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CW is used for reference in balance debates coz to have success there, you can't be completely clueless.

Is that right?  So, everyone who plays Clan Wars has a clue.  Even if I accept that, does it follow that nobody who doesn't play Clan Wars has a clue?

Because that's what I'm talking about:  "You don't play Clan Wars, so you don't know what you're talking about."

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Watching CW on youtube is like watching a food program on tv. It may give you a job on McDonalds, but not somewhere listed in the Michelin guide. There's a reason for that.

No, but it gives you a clue, of what works together.  Strawberry, and Kiwi?  Even if I'm allergic to strawberry, and incapable of tasting it without dying, I know that Strawberry works with Kiwi.

Even if I can't afford to play Clan Wars without dying, I understand that Aegis works with Helios.

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Sometimes it's nice to "have a talk between grownups" and not need to explain everything.

Okay, then you characterize us as children.  Shut up kid, the grownups are talking.  The problem is, you keep coming into the playroom, where we're talking about Wheels in Low Power Scores, (Basically wheels other than Bigfoot) then you come in, and change the subject to Hovers.  Because everything is about Hovers.

Everything is about Clan Wars.

Everything is about the Meta.  I share a Raid Build, in a thread about raid builds, and you (Plural, you Clansmen) show up to tell me how those guns would get shot off by a real player, instead uf letting us kids talk about Raid Builds.

Or what about Race Mode?  It's a Brawl, that can only be played a couple days a week, where the balance is specific to that playstyle.  And yet, EVERY SINGLE DISCUSSION about Movement Parts isn't about Race Mode, where Movement is the ONLY Factor.  

It's all a sudden about sideways hover meta clan wars builds.

The problem isn't that you grownups can't talk about grownup things, Boomer.  The problem is that us kids don't get to talk about anything else, without you stepping in, and spanking us for not knowing what we're talking about.

Maybe if you, any of you would let us talk, we might learn something about anything except your precious Meta.

Edited by psiberzerker
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13 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Because that's what I'm talking about:  "You don't play Clan Wars, so you don't know what you're talking about."

In a debate that would be considered an ad hominem.

Which, i think, is the problem here, in the forums, instead of disproving an idea or argument they take out authority to the one that posted the idea.

Edited by AGrievousGuy

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Also, it's not just because I saw it on Youtube, Twitch, and whatever other streaming platform you might want to name.

It's also because I've talked on these forums, and been told, every day, for over half a year, by you (All) all about the Clan Wars Meta.  So, okay.  I get that nobody should listen to me, because I don't play Clan Wars.

Nobody should believe you, because you say you play Clan Wars.  Anyone can claim to be top 100, and anyone in the Top 100 (On the platform) can refute that.  The part you (All) keep ignoring is that EVERYTHING I know about the Clan Wars Meta, I learned from YOU.

Arguing over what works in Clan Wars.  What's better, Typhoon, or Tsunami?  Sparkester, or Drakester?  3 Porcupines, and 2 Kapkans, or 2 Porcupines, 2 Kapkans, and an Echo (So you can have Colossus, and Chameleon.)

Who should I believe when @*Jomar_SL is arguing with @Babylonsburning?  You both claim to be in Clan Wars (One of those claimed to have quit) and you both have a clue, but what about us, who don't play Clan Wars?

You know, the ones who come to this forum, to get a Clue?  Most of the times I said something, where I "Didn't know what I was talking about," I didn't learn it from you.  I learned it from the guy you were arguing with, the last time you grownups had an argument about what the OPtimum numbers of Hovers was.

Because all you do is fight, and tell everyone they're wrong.  Regardless of whether or not they play Clan Wars.  @Sethi0z?  He's wrong, because somebody doctored a photo, and apparently he sold cheats once.   @TreeBurgersYT?  He's wrong, because he's not in your Clan.  

So, who're we supposed to believe when only the Clansmen get to argue over who's Clan is right?  Only the ones that play Clan Wars?  That doesn't narrow it down much.

Edited by psiberzerker
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15 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

The problem is, you keep coming into the playroom, where we're talking about Wheels in Low Power Scores

No, I don't. And I'm not debating you, just giving you a few common reasons. Hence the *.

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3 minutes ago, *Jomar_SL said:

No, I don't. And I'm not debating you, just giving you a few common reasons. Hence the *.

Sorry, not you, *Jomar.  You all.  Yall, Youins.  All of the Clan Wars players who derail topics to Clan Wars when we try to talk about anything else.

Crossout is not Clan Wars.  It's Get the Wires!  That is the point of Balance.  

Clan Wars is just another Brawl with the best reward.

Edited by psiberzerker
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4 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Arguing over what works in Clan Wars.

 

4 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Who should I believe when @*Jomar_SL is arguing with @Babylonsburning

I can't remember having a balance arguement with him, but on a general basis, it is easy. If you can deliver, it is proven.

 

24 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

So, mixing shotguns, and cannons works in Missions?  Maybe Patrol, but not PvP.

Close enough?

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9 minutes ago, *Jomar_SL said:

I can't remember having a balance arguement with him, but on a general basis, it is easy. If you can deliver, it is proven.

Just 2 names (We're told to believe, because you play Clan Wars.) I picked because you're both on Consoles, and I couldn't think of anyone else except Xbot, and nobody can really believe half the weird things he claims.    No, I honestly can't remember a specific argument.  It was completely hypothetical.

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Video

Close enough?

Not to prove that Shotguns work with Cannons, but I really appreciated the weird combination, as usual.  Now, I'm going to derail my thread, because it's *Off Topic:

This is one of the things I have to fight for.  Trying weapons in combination, because the Clansmen deny that mixing weapons works, despite mixing weapons in Hybrid Melee.  

Everything's better with Lances.  No, I don't really mean that, but you got a couple extra Energy?  It's not really wasted on Lances, for the same reason that Mammoth Wedge actually works:

There's Melee, in Crossout.  Melee is a good counter to Melee.  So, even if you're packing Hurricanes, there's a good chance that a Sparkester will charge you, and blow his Harvester off when he hits your Lances.  

Honestly, I wish more players did that.

Edited by psiberzerker
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14 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

but you got a couple extra Energy

Yes. I had 2 blue non-trade sticks laying around. I would have used doppler and verifyer instead, if i had to build it again.

 

14 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Honestly, I wish more players did that.

I used to have a humpback mandrake/harvester before they changed the harvester perk :)

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I tell you why i personally think people often call you out with cw and i mean that honestly and constructive.

You lack the general experience compared to people with 5 or 10 times your playtime so you dont see the wider picture as they can, you correct people about high PS stuff you never play as you say yourself and you love to derail topics so people just dont have the patience anymore to have long winded discussions with you and just bring the CW argument to end it there fast and swiftly.

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@psiberzerker I know it doesn't help anything, but I can tell you that, even if you could prove your experience outside of a number below your profile interests, it is the same.

Even if you have 5000+ hours of experience and have painstakingly worked your way up to relics the hard way, they are still the same here.

Most of the players that post here are so embedded in their own alternate reality and/or bias that they don't care how compelling the argument is, they will always be right and everyone who doesn't exist in their echo chamber is wrong.

There is no recognition of the nuanced skill-sets that comprise varying playstyles; just insults from the opposing camp to belittle the differing opinions and perspectives of others.

Stupidly, I come here every day against my better judgement; hoping to read some glimmer of intelligence among the vitriol. But I am almost always disappointed. Mostly because there is so much garbage written here and life is too short to spend so much time giving replies/opinions that will almost never be considered in earnest.

So, with that said, I have basically given up on actually participating in this forum; for the above reason, and also for some of the issues you have mentioned above.

As I said, my writing this doesn't help anything, I know. But at some level I understand how you feel and want you to know that you need no validation from the toxic tryhards.

You can destroy them completely and they will find a way to marginalize you anyway.

My only advice is to enjoy the game for yourself and pray the Devs take most of this forum with a grain of salt.

As for updates in development -  I gave up worrying some time ago. I will take it as it comes, no matter how bad it might get. I will always find a way around whatever changes they make that I might dislike.

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37 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

You correct people about high PS stuff you never play.

Honestly, I haven't in days.  Yes, I did, and I learned not to, but it will take people some time to notice.

37 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

You love to derail topics.

Not really.  Honestly, this isn't true.  I say thing as an asside (Usually paranthetically) and somebody quotes that, then runs off on a tangent.

Or the ever popular "My experience is bigger than your's" derailment.  Which is, in fact a derailment.  I don't actually like most of these arguments any more, because they're repetitive, and at some point, it's all the same argument.  It was fun for a little while, it got old, so I eventually learned how to avoid triggering you guys into derailing yet another discussion into the usual Clan Wars/Hovers/N00bs BS you guys were on about when I showed up.

TBPH, you like to argue with people, and prove that they don't know what they're talking about, because it helps your superiority you ganed from so many hours more play than us.

And it's not just me.  I mean US.  Everyone except for the ones that are aknowledged to be Clan Wars Certified, so you can speak your opinion here, on any subject.

If it's not about Clan Wars, or hovers, we just have to wait for you guys to show up, and then it is.

We, the rest of us, regardless of Clan Wars tier, would like to talk about something else, every once in a while.  We would like to post pictures of builds that aren't Hovers, covered in Spaced Armor, and Clan Wars viable, because that's all anyone dares to share here.

37 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

So people just don't have the patience anymore to have long winded discussions with you and just bring the CW argument to end it there fast and swiftly.

Not people.  You Clan Wars players.  There's plenty of people here, some of whom also play Clan Wars, who are perfectly capable of talking about something other than your approved subjects.

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6 minutes ago, _f0r3v3r_ said:

even if you could prove your experience outside of a number below your profile interests

You mean like she said her tilted bigram incinerator build with the ac's or whatever on top isnt in more danger to loose the guns as example?

I never said the build doesnt work or is useless, i just said you lose the guns faster but it spiraled out and got further derailed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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9 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

You mean like she said her tilted bigram incinerator build with the ac's or whatever on top isnt in more danger to loose the guns as example?

Strawman.  "Or whatever?"  You can't even make up a good lie to shove in my mouth?  This just proves that you don't know (or remember) what I was talking about.

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I never said the build doesnt work or is useless, i just said you lose the guns faster but it spiraled out and got further derailed.

Look, it's a hell of a lot easier for me to not talk about Clan Wars, or Hovers, if we could talk about anything other than Clan Wars, and Hovers.  

The meta, your meta, is not the whole game.  Nor is it the axis that balance revolves around.  You get that, right?

 

________________________________________________

Lead                                   ^                                            Gold

The balance point is in between.  Even if you weigh Scrap, and Uranium, the balance point is in between those 2 extremes.

You guys are Over Powered.  Imbalancing these forums, so we can only talk about what you want to talk about, AND we can't talk about it, because we "Don't know what we're talking about."

So, you guys get to talk about Clan Wars, and Hovers, oh yeah, and how much you hate the Devs.

We get to STFU.

Edited by psiberzerker

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23 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Honestly, I haven't in days.  Yes, I did, and I learned not to, but it will take people some time to notice.

That was only an example, youre doing that with lots of stuff you havent played or not enough as someone who uses that build/playstyle for years.

 

This is a forum and everyone has the right to speak his opinion but when you start to correct people with a multitude of your experience then it gets tedious and sometimes even ridiculous.

Again, you have every right to speak your mind and tell your opinion as we have every right to correct you and tell you when youre wrong and why we think youre wrong.

 

If you make a good point i gladly accept that and i have no problem being corrected when im wrong. Its called adapting, goes for gaming as in life, its how you get better.

 

 

Edited by Beni_Stingray1

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12 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

That was only an example.

That was a failed attempt at an incomplete example, or whatever.

Quote

You're doing that with lots of stuff you haven't played or not enough as someone who uses that build/playstyle for years.

I'm slowly building a mental list of things I can't talk about, because it triggers the Clans to band together, and lynch me.  Yes.  It takes a while, because the list is basically anything but Clan Wars, and Hovers.

I'm also not the only one that's pointed this out.  Hell, @Bobbill12345 pointed out the Hovers earlier this week.

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This is a forum and everyone has the right to speak his opinion but when you start to correct people with a multitude of your experience then it gets tedious and sometimes even ridiculous.

And when I don't, you don't notice me not doing it.  Everyone has the right to speak, but you select few have the right to speak for everyone.

Including the Devs.  Are the Devs included in that "Everyone" who has a right to speak?  Or are they included in that "Everyone else" you have the entitlement to speak for, and invalidate.  What about the Admins?

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Again, you have every right to speak your mind and tell your opinion as we have every right to correct you and tell you when you're wrong and why we think you're wrong.

You also have the right to change the subject to Clan Wars to shut us up.  You personally may not be aware of it, I haven't seen you personally use that tactic, but I have seen others do it.  Changing the subject to Clan Wars is an easy win for you, and anyone who's Clan Wars Certified to shut up anyone you don;t like.

I'm not accusing you, Beni of doing anything, but it is done, regularly, even if you're not aware of it.

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If you make a good point I gladly accept that and I have no problem being corrected when I'm wrong. Its called adapting, goes for gaming as in life, its how you get better.

I learn when I'm proven wrong.  However, I'm ASSUMED to be wrong, by default, which is an imbalance.  You're assumed to be right, by default, which is an imbalance.

We both have the right to speak.  You have the right to be believed.  Because you play Clan Wars.  Even if it's not about Clan Wars.

Edited by psiberzerker
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Maybe read my post again and then read yours again, you still dont get it.

 

3 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

However, I'm ASSUMED to be wrong, by default, which is an imbalance.  You're assumed to be right, by default, which is an imbalance.

The imbalance comes from my almost 40k battles compared to your 10k.

 

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12 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

The imbalance comes from my almost 40k battles compared to your 10k.

Yes, and that should mean something.  However, it doesn't mean that you guys are always right, and everyone (Including the devs) are always wrong.

So, why don't we discuss that?  How many years, and how many games have the Devs played again?  Because the only way I have of knowing is to take your word for it.

Vets>N00bs, that's understandable.

Vets>Devs is imbalanced.

Edited by psiberzerker
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8 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

Yes, and that should mean something.  However, it doesn't mean that you guys are always right, and everyone (Including the devs) are always wrong.

 

28 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

If you make a good point i gladly accept that and i have no problem being corrected when im wrong

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

ow many years, and how many games have the Devs played again?  Because the only way I have of knowing is to take your word for it.

I dont know, outside of their work probably not very much.

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42 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

I don't know, outside of their work probably not very much.

Well, that's progress.  At least you can admit that you don't know.  

We know that the Devs don't play Clan Wars.  Pretty sure.  So, since that is the point of Balance, for the entire game, and only people who've played Clan Wars, for years, truly know what they're talking about...

If the only way to truly understand balance is to play Clan Wars, the simple solution is for the Devs play to Clan Wars.  @Woodyrojo, @Skula1975, I just want to watch.

Edited by psiberzerker

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22 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

So, since that is the point of Balance, for the entire game, and only people who've played Clan Wars, for years, truly know what they're talking about...

I never said that, i was not generalizing, we were talking about you and why you get corrected.

Again, i said people with 30k more games than you know more about game balance because they have 4 times your experience and people who play cw probably know more about cw and high PS than you.

If youre interested how they balance i suggest reading the latest dev blog and read the answers. Its shows pretty perfect why people with 40k+ games dont take the devs all that serious, look at what data they collect and how much of a wrong picture that paints.

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11 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

I never said that, i was not generalizing, we were talking about you and why you get corrected.

My thread is about the "You don't play Clan Wars" narrative.  I know you'd rather talk about me, but that's an intentional derailment.

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If youre interested how they balance i suggest reading the latest dev blog and read the answers.

I did.  We started this conversation there.  Would you like links, quotes, or should I trust your memory?

Quote

Its shows pretty perfect why people with 40k+ games dont take the devs all that serious, look at what data they collect and how much of a wrong picture that paints.

Well, it funny, but if you don't take them seriously, insult, and libel them, then make up stats about them, they don't seem too willing to give in to your demands.

Now, my point is that if understanding Game Balance requires you to play Clan Wars.  The solution is for the Devs to play against you, in Clan Wars, so you can teach them about Balance.  Right?

Edited by psiberzerker
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You didn't say that the problem with game balance is that the Devs don't play enough?  It wouldn't be fair for them to play against anyone but the best of the best players in the game.

You claim to know more about this game than the people that created it, because you play more.

53 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

Its shows pretty perfect why people with 40k+ games dont take the devs all that serious, look at what data they collect and how much of a wrong picture that paints.

"You don't play Clan Wars, so you don't understand how balance works."

"The devs don't play enough to know how balance works, so they have to listen to the players, and use statistics."

First of all, I just smoked a bowl of Tobacco in my pipe.  Does that prove that I don't smoke anything else in it?

The devs just admitted that they use surveys, read the News threads (Which they replied to) and use statistics to try to balance this game.  That "Proves" that they don't play enough, and shouldn't be trusted.  Only you Clan Wars Certified players should to balance this game.

So, again.  If the reason why you know better than the devs how to balance this game, is because you play it more than they do.  The only solution to the problem, that you raised is for them to play you, in Clan Wars, to learn more about the Balance in this game they created, but don't play enough.

Unless you'd rather they seal club.

Edited by psiberzerker
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