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"Just hold W."

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We've all heard it, but I've noticed an unforeseen consequence to this argument, in Chat, on the Forums, even on Twitch, and Youtube:

Wedge players seem to think that's how you play Wedge.  "Just hold W," when it's usually used to call someone a typical Wedge Player.  "U use shotguns, so you just hold W easy mode."

The problem is that new players come on here, looking for tips, on how to play.  They learn, from the best that Shotgun Wedge is "Easy Mode," and they just have to hold W for the win.

So, I have to ask myself, where do all these guys come from?  It's not like the aces came up with the train Plow Wedge.  It's not as if they all learned to just hold W, independently, on their own.

I haven't heard "Just hold fire" for easy mode Equalizer/Aurora builds, even though that is how they're played, and it really is pretty much that easy.  I actually like having a GOOD Wedge player on my team, and when I recognize him (Not naming any names) I tend to follow him, because he distracts, and incapacitates some of the harder builds.  Oddly enough, the same Meta builds that the guys use, when they say "Just hold W."  

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The Clan Wars Veterans are the officers.  They are responsible for shaping this community, and teaching the new players how to play.  Which builds work, what requires skill, and what's an easy win.

This is the community they created.  Where do you think they Learned that?  Drones don't require any skill.  Shotgun Wedge is an easy win.

"Just hold W?"

They didn't learn it from me.

Edited by psiberzerker
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That is the best way to play shotgun wedges mechanically. A bird won't go around trying to swim. A wedge won't go around kiting enemies like he's an Equalizer buggy. CW veterans/officers have nothing to do with the pervasiveness of wedges. The meta you see now is the community collectively realizing what the most mechanically capable builds are. The cream has risen to the top in a completely natural way. Us veteran players aren't that important to the meta.

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15 minutes ago, AFluffyBadger said:

CW veterans/officers have nothing to do with the pervasiveness of wedges. Us veteran players aren't that important to the meta.

Okay, you seem to act as if playing Clan Wars is important to understanding how the game works.  (Not you personally, the Vets collectively.)  "You don't play Clan Wars, so you don't know what you're talking about."

Assuming that you have no affect on what's said here, and who the new players believe, why are there so many that try so hard to make sure that only the people who play Clan Wars are followed?  Only they can speak with authority about what works?  Which builds are acceptable, and which players are "Trash" based apon our builds?

I would argue that the veterans, in general, certainly seem to act as if they have total, and unarguable control over this game's balance.  To the point that they tell the Developers that they don't play Clan Wars, and therefore don't understand this game's balance.

Either take responsibility for this community, which you have this much control over, or don't.  You can't blame the Aces for ruining this game, and this forum, because we haven't been here long enough to.  We didn't decide that Shotgun Wedge is the easy way.

You tell us that, every single day.  "Don't play Shotgun Wedge, it's easy, you don't need any skill, just hold W."  Now you (Collectively) seem surprised when we believed you.

Edited by psiberzerker
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15 minutes ago, Beni_Stingray1 said:

You still dont get it even tho people explained it mutiple times to you.

What don't I get, exactly?

What did you expect to happen, when you told the whole world the cheapest, and easiest counter to Flagship Hovers?  They wouldn't play them, to make it easier for you, and give you a fair fighting chance?

Or we'd play the flagship hovers, we can't afford, so you can beat us with your skill in a fair fight?

You literally told everyone the easiest build in crossout, and now you're upset that everyone is playing it?  That everyone believed you, and not me, when I encouraged them to play something different?

The didn't listen to me, Psi "You don't know what you're talking about" berserker.  They listened to you.  So, enjoy your meta.  You're the one they believed.

If they'd listened to me, they'd probably be driving around with Whirls on Bigrams, and a Meat Grinder.

Edited by psiberzerker
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So, how you liking your Breaker Meta?

"Oops!"  I'm sure the incompetent Devs just accidentally gave you what you asked for, because they believed you, when you told them how incompetent they are.  They had no idea what would happen if they gave the most powerful shotguns in the game limited invulnerability, and a stealth cabin that counters Verifier, and Occulus.

It's just a coincidence that it's literally a Breaker Meta.  Maybe it would have been too obvious if it were a Punisher Meta.

Oh yeah, and how'd you like Leviathan Meta?  At some point, I kinda have to wonder how much they really hate you guys.  I guess I can sympathize.

So, how'd you like a Lancer Meta next?

Edited by psiberzerker
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You're reaching a bit far here with your logic; Psiberzerker. People don't need to be told what works; they need to simply play the game for a couple of days and make a mental note of what kills them. If out of 50 deaths, you were wedged and obliterated 29 times, had your weapons stripped off in seconds by a hover 19 times, and were killed by a tank with cannons twice... you can make your own conclusion as to what works in this game and what doesn't.

Now I'm guessing you're talking about the earlier days when 70% of all builds in the game weren't wedges; and they were dedicated to using shotguns... instead of even cannon, missile, and even autocannon builds being wedges as well. To that, I answer... it's only a matter of time. Play the game long enough, and you'll start to notice names... and remembering them. The fact that you've played against a certain person ten times, and have never been able to beat them tends to stick in your mind. Then you start wondering... "Why can't I kill that guy?". Sure, partly the answer could be just that he's a skilled driver/pilot... and partly the answer is that he's playing with 3 of his friends in a group, driving together... and then partly the answer is the build he's using. You can't acquire his skill nor his friends... but you can copy his build... and when you do, you see that your win rate suddenly improves because it's a cheesy build that exploits game mechanics in your favor; such as wedges.


Cancer will spread on it's own; without the help of any "authority" perpetuating it.

Edited by Sir_Stallsalot
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4 hours ago, psiberzerker said:

They learn, from the best that Shotgun Wedge is "Easy Mode," and they just have to hold W for the win.

Well a wedge literally IS easy mode. And you don't have to be "the best" to see it. Yet, I always tell everyone NOT to play wedges. Wedges are for spineless goobers. This is how I coined the term wedgetable - running a wedge leaves players in a wedgetative state. As in "completely fvcking braindead". One thing that is easy to notice with most wedgetables is that if they fail to actually wedge you, they usually reveal themselves to be absolutely clueless about what to do other than driving under someone. Oh how I will cherish the day the wedge fix makes it into the game.

If you're asking where they all learned that? Back in the day there was a couple of youtubers that aside from also building wedges always tended to showcase their builds and gameplay while exclusively playing in a group with two or three other crutchmasters and pubstomped the other team, really making the easymode stand out. But those aren't necessary at all, neither are the "clan wars elites" or anyone else. Just playing the game is enough, new players see a wedge in battle and see how effective it is and either they snap after getting wrecked by a wedge and start using it themselves or just try it out outright and get a rush from the power trips wedging somebody and grow too accustomed to it to stop without an external imput (the upcoming wedge fix, hopefully).

Regarding the "just hold W" phrase, that's a thing coined by those that "just hold S" and I wouldn't spend time thinking about it.

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9 minutes ago, Sir_Stallsalot said:

You're reaching a bit far here with your logic; Psiberzerker. People don't need to be told what works; they need to simply play the game for a couple of days and make a mental note of what kills them. If out of 50 deaths, you were wedged and obliterated 29 times, had your weapons stripped off in seconds by a hover 19 times, and were killed by a tank with cannons twice... you can make your own conclusion as to what works in this game and what doesn't.

Funny, that's just what i did, for the past 2 years.  Obviously, I "Just don't get it," and everything I learned, not playing Clan Wars is wrong.

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Play the game long enough, and you'll start to notice names... and remembering them.

How long is long enough?

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Then you start wondering... "Why can't I kill that guy?"

While this is a perfectly natural question to ask, there is no satisfactory answer.  

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Sure, partly the answer could be just that he's a skilled driver/pilot... and partly the answer is that he's playing with 3 of his friends in a group, driving together... and then partly the answer is the build he's using.

This^  All of this, if it's not one thing, it's two.  The salty answer is "You never would have beat me if you weren't using..."  However, it's not what he was driving, it's what he was driving versus what you're driving, and how each of you drove it.  If I get beat 5 times in a row, I'm going to try something else, before it ever gets to 10 times in a row.  

I can't control what he's using.  Trying to control what the other players use, either by shaming them into switching to another build that isn't "Cheap," or petitioning the Devs to do it for you isn't using what you have control over.  You can change what you're driving.  That's what this game is all about.

 

Edited by psiberzerker

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9 minutes ago, _Lemmy44_ said:

This is how I coined the term wedgetable - running a wedge leaves players in a wedgetative state.

Okay, I call them Wedgelords, and I'm not going to argue which is the funnier term.

However, it works.  It's literally cheap, while Hovers, Epics, Legendaries, and Relics are Expensive.  You can learn how to play a Shotgun Wedge pretty much with Luparas.  You can't learn how to play Porcupine Hover, possibly ever, unless you play Clan Wars.  (Or pay to play Porcupine Hovers.)

Which is the better build?  Porcupine hovers haven't eliminated Firebugs, and even Shotgun Wedges from 10K++ endgame play, so SGW is still an effective build, even when Breakers aren't Broken.  (You can't play Tusk, Firebug, or Sparkester right out of the gate, either.)

This is why you're called Try Hards.  And no, I didn't coin that.  You continually remind us that Crossout has to be hard.  Not to play effective builds, because it might make it too easy.

Well, forgive me if some of us don't believe you.

Edited by psiberzerker
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Why doesn't anyone ever even mention how easy Incinerator is?  I mean, it's not as easy as spamming Porcupines, but seriously, guys.  It's super easy to get points with Incinerator, and never take any damage.  You've got that handy dandy circle that shows you right where it's going to land.  You can hide behind your team-mates, and let them Tank all the damage, you never run into Kapkans, and King mines unless you're way out of position.  

What button do I have to "Just hold" for Incinerator to be Easy Mode?  Or Porcupines?  Or Mandrakes?  If we're going to sneer at people using Shotgun Wedge, despite the fact that just holding W is a suicide charge right into the enemy, then why don't we look down our noses at the lowly Incinerator?

I've been openly, and annoyingly announcing that I play Blight Incinerator, and being attacked from all sides for not playing Clan Wars.  I defy you to find a more universally hated troll on these forums, I might as well change my name to Among Enemies (So I don't get accused of plagiarism) and nobody's going to point out, just how easy that 1 weapon makes this game?  How little skill it really takes to hang back, and roast the enemy en mass, while your allies do all the fighting?

While the Shotgun Wedges, and Firebugs do all the fighting?  You Clan Wars guys had the perfect weapon to point out, that i wouldn't have ever gotten this far, if I wasn't playing Incinerator, and what do you do?  You point out that my guns are exposed.

Edited by psiberzerker

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51 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

This is why you're called Try Hards.  And no, I didn't coin that.  You continually remind us that Crossout has to be hard.  Not to play effective builds, because it might make it too easy.

Oh yeah, I'm a tryhard because I play for fun with builds that prioritize looks over the meta, right? It doesn't even have to be "hard" and it's not about trying to make it hard. It's about not using a copypasted exploit to ruin the game for others, duh.

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4 minutes ago, _Lemmy44_ said:

It doesn't even have to be "hard" and it's not about trying to make it hard. It's about not using a copypasted exploit to ruin the game for others, duh.

How does it ruin the game for everyone? It doesn't ruin the game for me, and you're still here, playing the same game.

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5 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

How does it ruin the game for everyone? It doesn't ruin the game for me, and you're still here, playing the same game.

It reduces the amount of effort you need to expend in order to succeed while at the same increasing it for everyone who has to fight you. Plus, it's annoying as heck, which is the main reason tbqh. Just because I'm still playing doesn't mean I enjoy fighting against exploiters, just like I don't enjoy playing against hackers in other games.

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16 minutes ago, _Lemmy44_ said:

It reduces the amount of effort you need to expend in order to succeed while at the same increasing it for everyone who has to fight you. 

So, they're not trying hard enough to meet your standards.

Oh, I'm sorry.  They're not expending enough effort?  Show me on the doll how that ruins the game for you.

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23 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

So, they're not trying hard enough to meet your standards.

DIMlZk5.jpg

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Now, how does that ruin the game for you?

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I already told you.

1 hour ago, _Lemmy44_ said:

it's annoying as heck, which is the main reason tbqh. Just because I'm still playing doesn't mean I enjoy fighting against exploiters, just like I don't enjoy playing against hackers in other games.

 

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Okay, well if how much effort other players put into the game is that annoying, it's not their problem, it's your's.

I mean, something that actually affects my game is getting rear-ended by Wedgelords that can't drive.  How easy it is for them doesn't really make it any harder for me.  

Not being able to destroy them kinda does.

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Incinerators are not exploiting flaws in the physics engine for one thing. They are also almost strictly support, unless kap mines are involved. (And fire needs to cause self damage to kaps) 

W pushers  refers more to firedogs and other facehugging builds imo, but it does apply to wedges as well, as that's what they do. You might can say that miniguns are just "mouse pushers", but atleast they have to aim, while circling the target, while avoiding everything around them at the same time. Wedges just drive into the target while firing away.

The sad thing is, from my perspective, it's not even the optimal way of playing shotties as it makes them highly predictable for one thing. Another is that they are so reliant on their crutch that they still just hold w down even when their wedge isn't working. To me this indicates that it's about all they know how to do.  (If you've ever seen Hsark in matches, that's how shotties are properly played. )

At this point, wedges are simply so common place that it's ruining the entire point of the game. It was just a few days ago that I saw 5 (!!!!) shotty wedges in a single team. 

Enough is enough. Time for wedges to go.

 

Edited by Steel_Artist
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54 minutes ago, Steel_Artist said:

Fire needs to cause self damage to kaps.

Make that Mines in general, and we'll have to agree to agree on that.  What's the practical difference between Kapkan, and a Turret?  I know they're not filled with explosives, or flammable oil, but if I can cook off Barrier Ix, there's no reason why I shouldn't also cook off Kapkans, Kings, and Porcupines.

That's exploiting a flaw in the physics.

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W pushers  refers more to firedogs and other facehugging builds imo, but it does apply to wedges as well, as that's what they do.

Okay, then let's apply that to face-huggers in general.  How do we fix the exploit in the physics of being pushed around by brawling melee cars that are designed to brawl in the melee?  That reminds me of the 90s circle jerk "Mosh" pit where everyone just danced around in a circle without touching each other.

Or "Mom!  He's touching me!" In the back seat on a road trip.  I don;t consider melee brawlers pushing magic carpet ride hovers around exploiting a flaw in the physics.  I kinda consider magic carpet ride hovers immune to all the physics, and porcupine barrels too.

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You might can say that miniguns are just "mouse pushers", but atleast they have to aim

So, "Press W" drivers don;t have to aim to hit the target with their car?  Or they don't have to aim to hit their target with Shotguns?  They do hold down the trigger, with shotguns when they drive clear across the map, through minefields, and the field of fire of snipers camped safely on defensive hills.  

You can't do that just holding W.  

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The sad thing is, from my perspective, it's not even the optimal way of playing shotties as it makes them highly predictable for one thing.

We're going to have to agree to agree on that one, too.  I'd much rather drive circles around them, than have them explode right on top of my cabin, and my shotguns, when I "Win," the "Fight."

PS, Thanks.  That's exactly the kind of argument I wanted.

Edited by psiberzerker
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On 7/22/2020 at 3:15 PM, _Lemmy44_ said:

One thing that is easy to notice with most wedgetables is that if they fail to actually wedge you, they usually reveal themselves to be absolutely clueless about what to do other than driving under someone. Oh how I will cherish the day the wedge fix makes it into the game.

Ahahahahaha this

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On 7/22/2020 at 6:21 PM, Steel_Artist said:

Time for wedges to go.

Devs:

Please allow up to 6 buisiness months for your request to be processed

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