Bobbill12345

"Ofc devs are monetizing the game, they need money"

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Lets do some quick mafs

The brawl leaderboard had about 200k players (on pc only)

Lets say on average, each player spends 10 USD/EURO a month on the game

200,000 x 10 = 2,000,000

Yes a 10 man dev team needs 2 million USD/EURO a month (24 million USD/EURO a year)

Edit: and this is just for the crossout side.... they have other games also raking in money for their 10 man dev team

Edited by Bobbill12345
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What makes you think that every player is paying $10/month to play this game? I know I'm not.

Obviously there are some that do pay that and others that pay more. But I would expect the VAST majority are FTP players that have never payed a nickel for the game, or only occasionally pick up a small pack that doesn't equate to that much.

So in addition to the costs of doing business that Lemmy mentioned, the basis of your calculations are pure speculation and most likely highly flawed. I don't see any way that your numbers can come close to reality.

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I don't think the average sum a player spends is 10€/month. Quite a number of those 200k players are folks who might buy one pack, play for few months and never open tha game again. If they bought a 30€ pack on a year scale that'd mean they spent less than 3€/month on this game.

 

Majority of the playerbase is russians who tend to spend less on videogames.

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2 minutes ago, Spedemix said:

Quite a number of those 200k players are folks who might buy one pack, play for few months and never open tha game again.

According to event ladders there is stable ~100k playerbase. Of course we dont know how much fluctuating.

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This reasoning is a bit flawed, I get that this is all in speculation but I think your estimate of 10 per player would be a bit high. A majority of the player base may be completely free to play, it's hard to discern without some actual figures but I feel your estimate is a bit generous.

Even however, if we are to assume your estimate to be accurate, that 2mil is not profit that they can just shove into their back pockets. Many people misunderstand this about companies, a large portion of that will go into overheads, they pay to be on certain platforms there are physical costs for office space rent (if they are renting), electricity etc, then there are the maintenance costs for servers and physical equipment, then there are possible creditors that money is owed to, then there are possible contract workers that may be used here and there, the shareholders then (depending on their equity structure) also need to get a return on investment. A budget must be maintained for future and ongoing projects, the list goes on but I think you get the idea. A business is a constantly moving machine that requires a steady flow of cash and equity to keep moving. Much of what companies make is used up for operational expenses and to invest back into the company in some way or another. At the end of a long list of expenses they must also still take home a salary as they don't work for free. So you may be shocked to find out that even 2 million can be quickly eaten up by certain companies. Now I have no idea on the size of operations that this company has but from experience I can tell you that there is a heck of a lot that goes on behind the scenes that will mow through cash flow like a fat kid at Christmas dinner. Not to mention, like you said they run other titles and those also come with a list of expenses, some of those titles may not be even turning over a gain and so some cash flow may be being diverted into trying to grow them, there may even be futur titles they are working on or experimenting with that would require investment.

It isn't as simple as you give dev money for game and dev now has that money. It's more like pouring water into a pipe with many holes alond the side, each hole fills a little cup and at the very end the trickle left over is what the devs actually take home.

Just a little business perspective ;). Like I said however, much like your post mine is pure speculation as I know nothing about the dev teams actual operations and expenses or cost structure, so take my post with a pinch of salt.

Edited by Irritated_Badger
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According to that survey, some of you have spent a lot of money on the game. However, I suspect those players are in the minority. 
If I were in charge of the company, I would do more battlepass stuff. It feels like a much better value than a pack, and it’s much more appealing to the casual players that I suspect make up most of the actual player base.

And as others have pointed out, running a game company isn’t cheap. If they can’t make money, we’re never going to get better servers. Better to get small amounts of money from lots of players than large amounts from a small number of players.

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Let's just assume that 80% of that 200,000 is actually active regularly.

160,000 players.

Let's also assume based on world of tanks where 70% of the player base never pays a dime is the same case here.

That's 48,000 paying players.

Now let's assume it comes out to 10$ a month from 90% of them and 60$ from 10% of them

10$ = 432,000$

60$ = 288,000$

Total = 720,000$ per month which is far from accurate but is likely a better representation than OP

Now you can...

9 hours ago, _Lemmy44_ said:

Substract de publisher's cut, promotion costs, server renting costs, office renting costs, various other expenses, and taxes. For example, since most of the playerbase is located in Europe and Russia, just the VAT makes up at least 20% of every purchase. I would be very much surprised if more than 5-10% of your hypothetical calculation ended up in with the developers themselves.

They do need to rent better servers though.

 

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8 hours ago, KruzinKenny said:

What makes you think that every player is paying $10/month to play this game? I know I'm not.

Exactly. He makes a fake stat, then turns around and treats it like it is real, and holds the devs accountable for the large numbers his made-up stat produced.

Bobbil might have a point with the devs going for far more money than they need, but don’t forget that the devs aren’t the only ones getting payed. Alongside what Lemmy said about fees, there are many other Gaijin employees. It’s not just 10 devs in an apartment, it’s a full company. Also, they advertise on google. The sheer cost of that is enough to disprove bobbil’s fake stat and flawed reasoning.

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8 hours ago, Spedemix said:

Majority of the playerbase is russians who tend to spend less on videogames.

That's why they need to enlarge their playerbase.

I'm all for a few months without updates if that means bringing more players from South America and North America by getting better/more servers for those regions and better marketing.

 

The Game is blocked on Steam for Brazil, no wonder SA member are close to non existance and don't  spend much in the game.

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On 7/31/2020 at 3:51 AM, _Lemmy44_ said:

server renting costs

You know how high quality the servers are... wouldnt be surprised if they dont spend over 25k a month on them

were at 1,975000

On 7/31/2020 at 3:51 AM, _Lemmy44_ said:

office renting costs

A 10 man dev team doesnt have a large office space, probably spend 20k a month on that tops counting utilities and stuff

were at 1,955000

On 7/31/2020 at 3:51 AM, _Lemmy44_ said:

just the VAT makes up at least 20% of every purchase

Were at 1564000 worst possible case scenario (plus russia is getting some change/reduction in taxes for dev companies)

On 7/31/2020 at 3:51 AM, _Lemmy44_ said:

promotion costs

Hmmm, how much did they really pay pewdiepie xD?

1 million?

That leaves paying gaijin, the rate is usually 20-40% for publishers

938k usd/euro profit a month worst case scenario xDDdddDDDDdddDDDDDdDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Edit: forgot to count paying employees, a high level game dev earns what 12k usd/euro a month, thats 120k usd/euro a month to pay devs

818k profit a month worst case scenario xDDDdddDDddddDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Edited by Bobbill12345
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On 7/31/2020 at 4:46 AM, Spedemix said:

play for few months and never open tha game again

And new players come in and spend money, replacing the lost percentage of players

 

On 7/31/2020 at 9:36 AM, Irritated_Badger said:

 like you said they run other titles and those also come with a list of expenses

Other games other profits, this is going to the gaijin side but gaijin has several other games like warthunder and they all follow the greedy live service extreme grind ftp game model

 

As Jiffy said tho the point is devs are monetizing the game way too much

Edited by Bobbill12345
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10 man xD , there's nobody working on this 24/7 , the amount of work being put on xo is very little , it could all be hired for almost nothing from freelancers in India that work for 2$/h

so 120k $ for this ? Give me a twix and a pepsi and i'll do the next pack models :lol:

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On 7/31/2020 at 6:54 AM, Bobbill12345 said:

Lets do some quick mafs

- you don`t know how many people actually pay
- you don't know how often they pay or how much
- you don`t know how gaijin works and what they do with the money

See, your "mafs" do not have a leg to stand on, it is nothing except your own fantasies.

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2 hours ago, RMFD said:

- you don`t know how many people actually pay
- you don't know how often they pay or how much
- you don`t know how gaijin works and what they do with the money

See, your "mafs" do not have a leg to stand on, it is nothing except your own fantasies.

Wait you don't know any of that ?

It's quite simple:

There's more than 100k active users per month , just on the PC.

Most people that don't leave after a couple of weeks spend money.

Gaijin spends money on advertisers for quick profits and doesn't invest on developing  (This is why there's no dev team).

So even if you don't have values this math it's quite easy to formulate (Active Player Base  * Paying %) - (Investment) 

From Gaijin perspective it looks like this (Something * Something) - (Nothing) = Big Profitz Boi

 

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15 hours ago, h0zz said:

(Something * Something) - (Nothing) = Big Profitz Boi

so true haha cro$$out

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21 hours ago, h0zz said:

Wait you don't know any of that ?

Again, that's nothing but your fantasy.
You're making lots of claims but without substance - which makes them meaningless. You have no case to make.

 

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On 7/31/2020 at 12:54 PM, Bobbill12345 said:

10 man dev team

where do you get this number?

Anyway, assuming they indeed only have 10 dev, you must also take into consideration platform licensing fees (ps3, ps4, xbox360, xbone, ios, android), steam royalties, publisher's cut to gaijin, server rental, marketing and various overheads. I mean of course they are making a profit but they do not pocket all of it.

Edited by Doctor_Dentist
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2 hours ago, Doctor_Dentist said:

I mean of course they are making a profit but they do not pocket all of it.

Of course not. In my case I just think they misdirected their investments and missed the oportunity to grow substantialy during the pandemic's peak.

Not everything has to be foul play... I'm more inclined in believing its a case of mismanagement instead of disingenuous intent.

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3 minutes ago, lucashc90 said:

I just think they misdirected their investments and missed the oportunity to grow substantialy during the pandemic's peak.

There's a bit of Hysteresis in Development, because of the OODA loop.  It takes months for the end user to see the benefits of their work, because they have to program, compile, load, test, retest, Player Test...

Depending on when they started, redistributing the (Assumed) income from the Stay at Home events, we should be seeing something in the next PTS, or 2.  However, they obviously started The Founders, Ravens, and Doomsday Cars before the Quarantine.  

So, we'll just have to wait, and see...

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Why some people so obsessively on and on about if a game company is making how much money?  It has nothing to do with anyone but their own.

 

Our choice are simple. If the game is good, we play it.  If it is not, we walk away.  If it has something please us, we can option to pay.  If we option to pay real money, that money is no longer ours.  Why some people think they still have a say to those money?:015_2:

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9 minutes ago, ChopChopChop said:

Why some people think they still have a say to those money?

Entitlement? I mean you bought a pack, its not like you bought a wedge rework or a hover nerf. You got what you payed for and is supporting the devs, the rest is a possible consequence of it, not an obligation or a signed contract.

Edited by lucashc90
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I also see a lot of free ride players playing the "You get what we payed for" card.  They pride themselves on never spending a penny, and yet try to dictate how the devs spend Our money.  (The demand free rando Rares for their "Loyalty.")

I'm not a Free Ride player.  I tried to spend my money wizely, but I've also taken some hits gambling on the Market.

I don't care what the Devs spend it on.  Keep working on this great game, @Woodyrojo, and @Skula1975.  Keep surprising us.  I had no idea that either Battle Pass events were even in the works, and honestly, those were the best $20.00 in the game.

Don't listen to those that call free gifts "Cash Grabs."  Keep doing what you're doing.  You can't please everyone, but some people just want to complain.

Edited by psiberzerker
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21 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

I also see a lot of free ride players ...

There is no such thing as a free ride player. Without them, we would have a low population. And games like that die out. A player who loves a game enough to pay for it, depends on these 'free riders' as you call them more than they depend on him. If they ware not the life force of the game, there wouldn't be a free to play game in the existence. Be happy they are here and respect them for that. 

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23 minutes ago, psiberzerker said:

I also see a lot of free ride players playing the "You get what we payed for" card.  They pride themselves on never spending a penny, and yet try to dictate how the devs spend Our money.  (The demand free rando Rares for their "Loyalty.")

Take me into account: I've spend close to if not more than 1.500 Trumps on this game and I still think that there is no use in offending, accusing and demanding stuff from the devs. When I started playing I was a lot more skeptical about them and dreaded the famous 8.20 update to its core UNTIL I saw it completely change the battlefield for the better. I still don't agree on the fusion rework and think that the wedge fix is well overdue, but I still believe things will eventualy be sorted out if we have enough patience. I know most of my issues with the game has been on the course of the last 3 years, so why doubt the rest will anytime in the future?

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