DHawk216

My 5 potential solutions to the Porc problem (DETAILED)

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18 minutes ago, DHawk216 said:

2. Reduce the fire rate, buff the health.

-20% fire rate, +30% HP

People complain that the spam is often why the Porc works. From deleting a build, to simply littering the map with Porcs that kill you 20 seconds after they miss, the amount of barrels alone make this thing a nightmare for anyone not on a hover. Again, double the fire rate because of the Echo cab, and the problem escalates. Having less DPS by way of less fire rate may make the Porc overly vulnerable before it can do its job. Increasing the durability of the weapon itself will help mitigate this.

If you're buffing the hp of porcs, then nerf the reload rate even further. At least 40% and up to 70%. The low durability of porcs is one of the few weaknesses they have.

21 minutes ago, DHawk216 said:

6. Nerf the stats across the board, to keep them as spammable 'Mine layer' or hovercraft melee weapons, but making them less effective at all these things.

-10% damage, -10% durability, -10% fire rate

So you like what they do, fundamentally? They deny areas, can tackle a Leviathan, fight a melee point blank, delete movement parts regardless of accuracy, and you like the spam? Fine, but they overachieve for their 3 energy. This isn't a specialized solution and is a lazy way of ensuring they lose effectiveness to some degree, guaranteed. They still can do everything they do now, but simply not as effectively. You can use a hammer to put a screw in a wall, and still hang a picture. But there are more specialized ways to approach the problem. This is kinda like that.

For an across the board nerf, that's far too little. Make more like -50% damage, -30% health, and -20 reload rate and that'd be better.

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Just now, SIGMA920 said:

If you're buffing the hp of porcs, then nerf the reload rate even further. At least 40% and up to 70%. The low durability of porcs is one of the few weaknesses they have.

For an across the board nerf, that's far too little. Make more like -50% damage, -30% health, and -20 reload rate and that'd be better.

Thank you Sigma, for replying for once in a constructive way. I do believe, however, that your numbers would bury these things 6 feet under! xD 

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27 minutes ago, DHawk216 said:

Thank you Sigma, for replying for once in a constructive way. I do believe, however, that your numbers would bury these things 6 feet under! xD 

If they are to become a spammable weapon/tool like kings or kapkans are, then their stats have to follow.

If you want to shift around stats then it has to be a substantial shift. A 20% nerf to their reload would be a non-issue when combined with a health buff of 30%.

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Nice topic. +1

All your points are good and well thought out. The one I like the most has to do with limiting the amount of porcs you can have out at once (similar to Kapkans and Kings). This is partly due to the literal impact porcs have on the game performance, hundreds of barrels on the map (and many matches running at once) can cause the server to take a dump. CW matches with 4 players running porcs are just... a pain to play in so many ways.

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I am always thinking why those little barrels looking and sounding like if they were made of normal, thin sheet metal like the ones you buy oil in, cant be pierced and destroyed with lets say single shot of Vector since any machine gun i know of has no issues to do so.

But yes,you have really good points ,indeed. I'd just use 2 of them instead of one, or make any chosen way, in more harsh way.

I think out of your suggestion i'd choose #1, energy consumption of +4.

Personally i'd make barrels durability 90% weaker, as they for some unexplained reason blast when your builds wheel touches one gently but for some reason 3 rounds from Chord,from any distance wont. 

Make launcher bigger ,and heavier too ,and since its filled with plenty of explosives, make the launcher explode in massive way when its destoyed. It must be  like mushroom cloud caliber explosion since even the generators explode quite strong yet the few of them contain like a single jerry cans load of fuel , one contains some 2 welding torch(?) tanks, and Apollo runs on who knows what, yet they explode quite hard, when pork containing loads of barrels filled with napalm or whatever...dont.

 

Edited by Siberian_Jay3x6
Added "cloud"
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7 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

1. Increase the Porc to 4 energy, leave all other parameters alone.

I wouldn't mind this at all, it's an easy solution, but would not be ideal, a triple Porc spam would be just the same as it is now, but without Kancerpkans to go with it.

7 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

2. Reduce the fire rate, buff the health.

-20% fire rate, +30% HP

This is a good proposition, I'd lower the firerate even more, bot added even more HP to compensate. Then it would be a good support weapon instead of the best melee weapon.

7 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

4.  -50% damage to movement parts on explosion (but not fire puddle damage)

This is an amazing idea! At the very least letting the enemy have a slight chance to actually escape after getting hit with a single salvo would be nice. But one might think - Why not just lower the explosion damage greatly altogether?

7 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

THE COMMUNITY AGREES ACROSS THE BOARD THAT THESE WEAPONS ARE A PROBLEM. THE LACK OF A SINGLE NERF TO THEM WOULD SEEM TO IMPLY YOU SEE THEM AS FINE. 

Perhaps there just really wasn't enough outcry on the forums until now. If they had made them explode under hovers, there would be so many threads about nerfing porcs, they would have been nerfed a long time ago.

7 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

( Btw: I get why you would nerf autocannons, you push down the entire line of autocannons with minor nerfs to make way for the new autocannon coming out in December. It is smart, and deliberate. Hopefully by the time the new autocannon drops, the past nerfs will be mostly forgotten and the desirability of the new autocannon that much higher. Smart, kudos to thinking ahead 6 months. The big picture and whatnot)

What?

 

By the way, how about also stopping Porc barrels thrown from hovers being faster than the most of the fastest wheeled builds? They shouldn't be rolling at 50 km/h, let alone 110 and more!

Edited by _Lemmy44_
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Caught this from _Lemmy44_ ;

"Perhaps there just really wasn't enough outcry on the forums until now. If they had made them explode under hovers, there would be so many threads about nerfing porcs, they would have been nerfed a long time ago."

some say they do explode under hovers, some say not ,who knows? I dont.

But, i cant but wonder when several hover jets that have like blue flames suggesting quite high heats are aimed towards the ground, wont ignite/detonate barrels filled with highly flammable something, and do it very fast, while the drums can hit to,and bounce from shipwrecks etc, and yet these crude drums can identify even a slightest contact with enemy and only the enemy and choose to explode ? 

Again i like the idea of introducing some friendly fire and danger of inflicting yourself with your weapons,in example by driving/hovering over your own barrels,getting them detonated and ending up killing yourself.

Edited by Siberian_Jay3x6
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3 hours ago, _Lemmy44_ said:

What? 

In regards to that random tidbit at the end of my original post about autocannons:

Rumor has it one of the 3 supposed new relics is an autocannon. Don't ask, I honestly don't know. What I do know is that the Cyclone is not a horrible weapon before it's nerf. It also wasn't OP in any way, shape or form.

So why nerf it? (and conveniently all autocannons down to the rapier)

If the Cyclone now is good enough to compete, then any major upgrade (relic autocannon) would be almost too strong. But if you release something that is not a whole lot better, it doesn't drum up $$$. So from a money making company's point of view, how do you maximize the appeal, while also not making it the only new relic people want? The most money will be made if all 3 new relics are strong and appealing, but not one of them being clearly the better than the other two. So you do little things to put it into position 6 months later. Case in point? Nerf the autocannons until they are a half-step weaker. Then, when you release a relic autocannon that is a full-step better than it's predecessor, it is more desirable. But all the while, it's only a half-step stronger than the Cyclone used to be. It's just manipulating perception, but doing it ahead of time. 

Disclaimer: All that above is an opinion and could be wrong. I however would beta large sum of money on it being true. 

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#1 is clearly the best and easiest solution imo, we know how incompetent the devs are and i think porcs are unique weapons which shouldnt be changed too much, making them 4 ebergy would be a good step and then we can see how they perform.

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Porcs are way OP due to the ability to cover an extreme area with a high damage explosive AND fire weapon. To balance this, increased energy requirements won't cut it. If it is supposed to be a large scale attack weapon in the way it is used now, it needs to be A LOT weaker with the explosive damage reduced by at least 50% and the fire puddle damage and heating rate halved. This way a large area could still be covered and the anti-cloak/anti-melee effect of this would stay. The other way, if it's supposed to stay a weapon that does more damage in a single volley than a frontal mandrake hit from point blank, it needs a much longer reload rate, similar to the Fortune in mechanics (slower than those) and a drastically reduced barrel and fire puddle lifetime. The last option I see is the fate of the TOW. Max 1 per car, not 3, not 2, only 1, as a support weapon with strong impact, but not an only one.

Also, from the battle count on your name I guess you are playing on console and you say you only play high PS and CW with MGs. Not sure how easy/hard it is to aim with MGs without a mouse, but MG is the one weapon that can perfectly counter porcs. Porcs on low and mid PS and in raids are a way bigger issue than in high PS ranges, as destroying/evading them them is a lot harder. This is especially true for players with early equipment like normal or rare tires, which all four fall off from a single porc hit on the car. Have the porcer sandwiched or on legs/tracks and they are neigh invincible there, unless totally suicidal.

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IMO it's simple.

Should it be a minelayer, or a reloading Lancelot? So far it's mostly used as a reloading Lancelot in CW with triple porc/dual kap builds pressing W and foaming at the mouth while the game plays itself for them.

They're IMO way too tough for what they're supposed to be. They offer 100+ dura/energy, wich makes them the toughest weap for 3 energy, and roughly twice as tough as Fortunes for absolutely no reason. I'd simply -10% dura -10% blast damage +10% radius them first to push them away from the melee-but-dumber role

edit: and +10% dura to Fortunes while I'm at it because they're crap and made of wet toilet paper compared to Porcs.

Edited by Clebardman
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Make the weapon able to explode as a generator or a factory (still don't know why the xxxx a factory explodes but a weapon that throws EXPLOSIVE barrels don't), problem solved

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A timed delay is also a solution. Try using it as melee and it would just bounce off people, hit it with a wheel and it would just get pushed out of the way. Maybe 4-5 seconds. Add different fire colors for friendly/enemies which people wanted forever. The energy should be changed to 4 even if there's a seperate nerf. Being able to run 5 relics or 3 with 7 energy left is too much. Turn it into a strategic support weapon. It would still cut off lanes and wreck Kapkanned players/Skinnered players/Encounters in pvp and beast in pve. I've made multiple posts with different solutions since the day the relic recipe changed, and it's only been buff, buff, buff so I'm not expecting much. And for the record I own 3 and use them a lot, so I know exactly how OP and easy they are to use.

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5 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

In regards to that random tidbit at the end of my original post about autocannons:

Rumor has it one of the 3 supposed new relics is an autocannon. Don't ask, I honestly don't know. What I do know is that the Cyclone is not a horrible weapon before it's nerf. It also wasn't OP in any way, shape or form.

So why nerf it? (and conveniently all autocannons down to the rapier)

If the Cyclone now is good enough to compete, then any major upgrade (relic autocannon) would be almost too strong. But if you release something that is not a whole lot better, it doesn't drum up $$$. So from a money making company's point of view, how do you maximize the appeal, while also not making it the only new relic people want? The most money will be made if all 3 new relics are strong and appealing, but not one of them being clearly the better than the other two. So you do little things to put it into position 6 months later. Case in point? Nerf the autocannons until they are a half-step weaker. Then, when you release a relic autocannon that is a full-step better than it's predecessor, it is more desirable. But all the while, it's only a half-step stronger than the Cyclone used to be. It's just manipulating perception, but doing it ahead of time. 

Disclaimer: All that above is an opinion and could be wrong. I however would beta large sum of money on it being true. 

I hadn’t thought about it from this perspective, but you might be right.

However, I’m pretty sure that most of the puzzling nerfs of special/rare/common weapons had more to do with them focussing on balancing low PS better, in order to make the game more welcoming for the new players they’re trying to attract through YouTube promo campaigns. 

I suspect that they’re mostly done fixing low PS, and are now making changes to how mid and high PS works. I’m betting we’re getting more high end toys soon, in addition to the legendary cabins. 
So you may be right about another new AC, and I’m looking forward to it! Whirl got me loving ACs again, but now I want something longer range and more accurate.

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3 Energy and more cost more energy by +1 for each.

 

Hover are immune against Porcs, also they are allready weaked.

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Are we forgetting that porcupines are within the relic category? And let's say they did get nerfed everyone would literally just swap to firebugs and then they'd be a bigger problem. As they stand right now they're very viable against dogs and wheeled builds such as KTMS etc. but when they're up against hovers they're pretty poor. Crossout is designed in a way where pretty much every build has a counter unless you're a horizontal mandrake. If you're having problems with porcs whilst you're playing clan wars, Play with a couple more ranged/hover players.

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1 hour ago, Calibrated said:

Are we forgetting that porcupines are within the relic category? And let's say they did get nerfed everyone would literally just swap to firebugs and then they'd be a bigger problem. As they stand right now they're very viable against dogs and wheeled builds such as KTMS etc. but when they're up against hovers they're pretty poor. Crossout is designed in a way where pretty much every build has a counter unless you're a horizontal mandrake. If you're having problems with porcs whilst you're playing clan wars, Play with a couple more ranged/hover players.

If porcs were 4 energy, you would see nearly the same number of porcs. I dont mind playing against porcs but 3 energy is too low

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1 minute ago, Claysdad said:

If porcs were 4 energy, you would see nearly the same number of porcs.

With 1 less Kapkan.  It's not just the Porcupines, those are pretty avoidable, but unless you have Spark, 3 Porcs, 2 Kapkans, and a Colossus (Usually, I've seen it on Echo) is a death-trap.  Even if you do have spark, you don't really have much time to get out of it, because of the reload on Porcs.  They can just keep spamming you, until you're dead.

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2 hours ago, Calibrated said:

Are we forgetting that porcupines are within the relic category? And let's say they did get nerfed everyone would literally just swap to firebugs and then they'd be a bigger problem.

So what you're saying is if we nerf the most OP thing, then there will be something else? 

All I gathered is you agree that Porcs are OP. 

Thank you for agreeing and helping drive this narrative home. 

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Very well thought out and informative post, a rare thing to see in the forums 

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Just no to all of this. A player on wheels playing MGs only should get owned by porcs.

this is the paper to your rock.

Edited by RoughMonkey
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14 minutes ago, RoughMonkey said:

Just no to all of this. A player on wheels playing MGs only should get owned by porcs.

this is the paper to your rock.

I wholeheartedly agree. I can only speak from my perspective. And they do own me when used optimally, as well they should. They also own any build they dock with. This thread is about them as a whole, not just me. But I can see why your small mind latched onto it as a personal affront. So tell you what, why don't you shut down every other person agreeing with me that they are OP and I'll be impressed. (easily 9 out of 10 people, and that's not counting every low PS player, then we're talking 99 out of every 100 people) Otherwise, lowbrow troll attempt denied. 

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