DHawk216

My 5 potential solutions to the Porc problem (DETAILED)

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15 minutes ago, RoughMonkey said:

Just no to all of this. A player on wheels playing MGs only should get owned by porcs.

this is the paper to your rock.

What is the scissors? 

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1 minute ago, DHawk216 said:

I wholeheartedly agree. I can only speak from my perspective. And they do own me when used optimally, as well they should. They also own any build they dock with. This thread is about them as a whole, not just me. But I can see why your small mind latched onto it as a personal affront. So tell you what, why don't you shut down every other person agreeing with me that they are OP and I'll be impressed. (easily 9 out of 10 people, and that's not counting every low PS player, then we're talking 99 out of every 100 people) Otherwise, lowbrow troll attempt denied. 

Lol, I love your puffed out forum chest. Your the man bro. If you can not reply intelligently you already lost.

GGs

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2 minutes ago, Jiffy_boi said:

What is the scissors? 

Any range guy can back peddle and kill a porc build, if they can’t then they are not a range guy.

even MGs are the scissor, shot the porc barrels as they come out and the porc build crumbles.

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6 minutes ago, RoughMonkey said:

Lol, I love your puffed out forum chest. Your the man bro. If you can not reply intelligently you already lost.

GGs

 

4 minutes ago, RoughMonkey said:

Any range guy can back peddle and kill a porc build, if they can’t then they are not a range guy.

even MGs are the scissor, shot the porc barrels as they come out and the porc build crumbles.

Definitely less sizzle than his first post. I find this acceptable parameters. Carry on. 

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7 minutes ago, DHawk216 said:

 

Definitely less sizzle than his first post. I find this acceptable parameters. Carry on. 

Lol, I’m glad I have your permission... If my clan goes into a clan war and we have a range team, and we go against a team with two porc builds we already consider the two porc builds dead and ignore them. You kill the two rush/range guys with them and the rest is just clean up.

change up the situation

lets say we go in with two lance and two shotguns. And we go up against a range team with one porc. Lance guy drives around the Huge orange objects on the ground and does not run into them like an idiot then takes out the porc build then the rest is just clean up.

Edited by RoughMonkey
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4 minutes ago, RoughMonkey said:

Lol, I’m glad I have your permission... If my clan goes into a clan war and we have a range team, and we go against a team with two porc builds we already consider the two porc builds dead and ignore them. You kill the two rush/range guys with them and the rest is just clean up.

change up the situation

lets say we go in with two lance and two shotguns. And we go up against a range team with one porc. Lance guy drives around the Huge orange objects on the ground and does not run into them like an idiot then takes out the porc build then the rest is just clean up.

I respect you actually contributing to the conversation. You stay in my good graces and have my permission to continue. Carry on.

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1 minute ago, DHawk216 said:

I respect you actually contributing to the conversation. You stay in my good graces and have my permission to continue. Carry on.

What a d-bag. No counter points? Maybe you should contribute to your own post. Being an **** does not make you right, it just makes your post look like a cry fest.

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@DHawk216

You forgot 1 option.

Read Spedemix's guide about how to counter Porcupine.

Edited by Psychq
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1 hour ago, Psychq said:

@DHawk216

You forgot 1 option.

Read Spedemix's guide about how to counter Porcupine.

I read the guide. It has nothing for me. It is honestly outdated and he seems think if you don't get kapkaned, you're good to go. I die 1 out of 10 times because of the kapkans. The other 9? The instant ability to end my (or anybody else's) build. I went from an entirely intact build, and I mean ENTIRELY intact, down to my 5 hp decor items, to dead in two pulls of the trigger. 6 barrels later, or as I like to call it 0.6 seconds, and I was out of a match.

The problem is there is no counter to being instantly dead.

9 energy that can end the life of every build in the game before an Echo perk de-procs. 

You wanna talk about rock-paper-scissors? The guy did the classic puts-his-hands-in-a-prayer-sign and said, "God." And what I threw out became redundant. 

This will be the last I talk here of counters or rock paper scissors. This thread is about what we, as a majority of the community, want to do to knock down the most universally OP thing in the game as it exists right now. You wanna talk about countering King Kong, go necro a year old thread that was sh*t the day it came out somewhere else. 

End.

 

Edited by DHawk216
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On 7/31/2020 at 5:47 PM, DHawk216 said:

1. Increase the Porc to 4 energy, leave all other parameters alone.

If you do, make a Porc-exclusive fusion event, to help stabilize the price and give players another option besides flooding the market with their 4th and 5th Porcs.

The simplest way to put this is that per point of energy, NOTHING comes close to the efficiency of Porcs. Name anything else that can eliminate any build in this game, including Leviathans, with 9 energy. There is nothing, and synergizing with a cab that encourages you to touch the enemy (Echo) and the DPS is nothing short of amazing. This solution would limit the builds to being raw DPS, by dropping their kapkans to keep their barrels. Or they would have to sacrifice a porc to retain all their team's modules (it is often the Porc player who carries the radar detector, verifier, kapkans which help the team, etc.)

would change nothing because people would just use 2 porcs instead of 3, 2 porcs still have the ability to spam the map down, and would barely raise the ps of sealclubber builds

 

On 7/31/2020 at 5:47 PM, DHawk216 said:

2. Reduce the fire rate, buff the health.

-20% fire rate, +30% HP

People complain that the spam is often why the Porc works. From deleting a build, to simply littering the map with Porcs that kill you 20 seconds after they miss, the amount of barrels alone make this thing a nightmare for anyone not on a hover. Again, double the fire rate because of the Echo cab, and the problem escalates. Having less DPS by way of less fire rate may make the Porc overly vulnerable before it can do its job. Increasing the durability of the weapon itself will help mitigate this.

Again innefective, porcs reload is what, 2 seconds? -20% of that is less than half a second longer reload, an almost unnoticable difference

On 7/31/2020 at 5:47 PM, DHawk216 said:

3. Make a hard cap of number of barrels that can be on the field per launcher. My recommended number is 5 per launcher. The 6th Porc launched would instantly detonate the 1st Porc on the field.

This one can be both a nerf and a buff simultaneously, while reducing the problem with spam. You want to flood an area with Porcs for area-denial? It is a minelayer, and you should be able to do so. But being able to simply alternate from one lane to another, nonstop for the entirety of a match is ludacris. Watch any gameplay video of a defensive Porc player on Powerplant. They can shut down train side and the middle alley singlehandedly and mindlessly. No thoughts to tactics needed. Look left, spam 15 barrels, look right, spam 15 barrels, look left, spam 15 barrels, look right, spam 15 barrels. Doing this creates an infinite wall of Porcs on all sides that will overlap without need for timing, tactics, cadence, nothing. This encourages players to do so and rewards players for doing less. That is the nerf side of it.

The buff it would have? Porcs would now be able to be detonated on command by tactical players (the 6th volley launched will detonate the 1st Porcs placed, with full effect), allowing players to detonate Porcs underneath approaching hovers, helping nerf one of the biggest advantages of the polarizing hovers: Porc immunity. It would also allow them to blanket an area with fire nearly on command, to help with decloaking approaching melee and shotgun builds. It gives them more utility, but only if used tactically and thoughtfully by their user. I can not advocate enough for the game to reward high level gameplay and not spam. Skill should be rewarded and this would create a new opportunity for intelligent plays.

Maybe this, but porc players will still be able to just camp chokepoints, wait for someone to try and rush them, then start spamming porcs so they either have to run through a minefield or turn back/find alternate path. yes, you can push from multiple directions, but they will still be able to just throw some porcs in both directions

On 7/31/2020 at 5:47 PM, DHawk216 said:

Why does my ride systematically disappear as I fight in an area a Porc is near? Old, missed-16-seconds-ago Porc barrels stay around and only 2 are needed to take off a Bigfoot

Sounds like someone cant drive or look at the ground in front of them....

And the nerf to movement part damage again changes nothing, 90% of the time porcs kill movement parts is when they pop frames, not shred the movement part hp

On 7/31/2020 at 5:47 PM, DHawk216 said:

5. Reduce the time barrels remain on the field to 10 seconds. 

I'll admit, this takes them away from their names category of 'Mine layer'. It is however one of their biggest advantages. 19.5 seconds after I dodge an enemy, while in the cap, stopping them from getting the 3rd capture point, the barrels hits a wall, rolls back downhill towards the center and kills me. 19.5 seconds after he MISSED. You want them to keep being a hovercraft melee weapon? That's fine, but let's not reward them with free hits 20 seconds later. 

Would lessen porc spam but again people could still just camp and wait for someone to come at them to then get close and spam mines at them

And again i dont understand why you have problems dodging barely moving old porc barrels, arent you supposed to have godly awareness on your godly arbiter aegis build xDdDdDdDDDDD

On 7/31/2020 at 5:47 PM, DHawk216 said:

6. Nerf the stats across the board, to keep them as spammable 'Mine layer' or hovercraft melee weapons, but making them less effective at all these things.

-10% damage, -10% durability, -10% fire rate

So you like what they do, fundamentally? They deny areas, can tackle a Leviathan, fight a melee point blank, delete movement parts regardless of accuracy, and you like the spam? Fine, but they overachieve for their 3 energy. This isn't a specialized solution and is a lazy way of ensuring they lose effectiveness to some degree, guaranteed. They still can do everything they do now, but simply not as effectively. You can use a hammer to put a screw in a wall, and still hang a picture. But there are more specialized ways to approach the problem. This is kinda like that.

Again tiny stat nerfs wouldnt fix anything

 

I think what porcs need is much slower barrel speed, that way even slow ranged builds can easily dodge the barrels and a porcupine builds area of effect is greatly reduced, but porcs can still be used to cuck cqc builds

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10 hours ago, Calibrated said:

As they stand right now they're very viable against dogs and wheeled builds such as KTMS etc. but when they're up against hovers they're pretty poor. Crossout is designed in a way where pretty much every build has a counter

As callibrated said porcs mainly counter close range builds, explains why dhawk and lemmy have problems with them

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7 hours ago, RoughMonkey said:

What a d-bag

Petition to call Dhawk Dbag216 from now on

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4 hours ago, Bobbill12345 said:

would change nothing because people would just use 2 porcs instead of 3, 2 porcs still have the ability to spam the map down, and would barely raise the ps of sealclubber builds

 

Again innefective, porcs reload is what, 2 seconds? -20% of that is less than half a second longer reload, an almost unnoticable difference

Maybe this, but porc players will still be able to just camp chokepoints, wait for someone to try and rush them, then start spamming porcs so they either have to run through a minefield or turn back/find alternate path. yes, you can push from multiple directions, but they will still be able to just throw some porcs in both directions

Sounds like someone cant drive or look at the ground in front of them....

And the nerf to movement part damage again changes nothing, 90% of the time porcs kill movement parts is when they pop frames, not shred the movement part hp

Would lessen porc spam but again people could still just camp and wait for someone to come at them to then get close and spam mines at them

And again i dont understand why you have problems dodging barely moving old porc barrels, arent you supposed to have godly awareness on your godly arbiter aegis build xDdDdDdDDDDD

Again tiny stat nerfs wouldnt fix anything

 

I think what porcs need is much slower barrel speed, that way even slow ranged builds can easily dodge the barrels and a porcupine builds area of effect is greatly reduced, but porcs can still be used to cuck cqc builds

You don't seem to get it. And that's fine. You're a known clown. I won't waste time going point for point with you, clown shoes. 

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Difficult to say whether any of them would work or not..

3rd option is vaguely similar to the idea as I came up with but worse..

1st option with Increasing them to 4 energy would cause a lot of upset for players who own 5...

The rest are just designed to ruin the weapon so the the developers may as well delete it if they chose any other of your ideas..

I understand that there's a lot of hatred towards the porcupines at the moment but it's better not to let it cloud our judgement and go too far...

Edited by HammeredByNature

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12 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

This will be the last I talk here of counters or rock paper scissors. This thread is about what we, as a majority of the community, want to do to knock down the most universally OP thing in the game as it exists right now. You wanna talk about countering King Kong, go necro a year old thread that was sh*t the day it came out somewhere else. 

End.

ok, that is clear. This is again the usual attitude that you often see here on this forum, I suffer from something, I can not deal with it. So devs have to change game for me. And about majority that would agree with you, majority doesn't even come to this forum because the wail of "I know better than devs" posters often predominates here.

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3 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

You don't seem to get it. And that's fine. You're a known clown. I won't waste time going point for point with you, clown shoes. 

Calling people clowns because you don't understand simple mechanics? You're complaining about your counter countering you. I play with Typhoons and Firebugs at top 60. Yes Firebugs, and you don't see me complaining, That's because when I'm playing Typhoons porcs are pretty much useless. If you're going to complain for a nerf please actually face porcupines with different builds instead of just the one, Thank you. 

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12 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

I read the guide. It has nothing for me. It is honestly outdated and he seems think if you don't get kapkaned, you're good to go.

The main change from writing of the guide is that folks run the porcs in Hovers now so they will be much faster to get into position. My only advice to counter that would be to run hovers yourself. :dntknw:Then again that has always been sort of like the problem with the hovers: how quickly they get into position which means if they're able to use weapons which allow them to dominate said position, you're gonna have a problem. That's a problem with hovers as much it is a problem with Porcs.

 

But the porc players genuinely are afraid of their own explosives so if you start shooting them it'll instantly make the porc player think twice whether they should push you with reckless abandon. Also the reason why Kapkan is such an integral part of Porc strat is because the barrels do move faily slowly at the end of the day making it somewhat easy to dodge them. I dodge barrels with a spider so pretty much anyone (except slow bricks) ought to be able to do that.

 

Here's a wheeled Breaker 1v1:ing a Hover Porc:

Spoiler

 

This player doesn't shoot the barrels and I need to talk to her about that. But you can see how she tries her darnest not to get kapkaned and how the porc player bases his entire strategy around getting this Breaker kapkaned. This is how it works on PC platform.

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+1.  However, having counters to Porcupine Hovers doesn't change the parts about being spammable enough to lag the game, and tripping up your own team mates.  

How do we counter a team mate, who bought some hovers, and porcupines, but just hides behind us, spamming barrels, and making it hard for everyone else to drive?  

I know:  Buy some Hovers.

Edited by psiberzerker

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15 hours ago, DHawk216 said:

The problem is there is no counter to being instantly dead.

If you’re instant dead to a porc guy then learn to build or learn to play.

porcs die to almost everything.

Range > Porcs

Spark > Porcs

Kappcan > Porcs

MGs > Porcs (just shoot the barrels duh.)

Hovers > Porcs

and so on and so on.

wait!! I have an idea why don’t we make Porcs a huge orange thing that can be seen from a mile away, also let make the weapon have random aim that goes all over the place making it hard to hit someone even at point blank.

hmmmmmm.... wait a second, they are already like that. LoL

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2 hours ago, Spedemix said:

The main change from writing of the guide is that folks run the porcs in Hovers now so they will be much faster to get into position. My only advice to counter that would be to run hovers yourself. :dntknw:Then again that has always been sort of like the problem with the hovers: how quickly they get into position which means if they're able to use weapons which allow them to dominate said position, you're gonna have a problem. That's a problem with hovers as much it is a problem with Porcs.

 

But the porc players genuinely are afraid of their own explosives so if you start shooting them it'll instantly make the porc player think twice whether they should push you with reckless abandon. Also the reason why Kapkan is such an integral part of Porc strat is because the barrels do move faily slowly at the end of the day making it somewhat easy to dodge them. I dodge barrels with a spider so pretty much anyone (except slow bricks) ought to be able to do that.

 

Here's a wheeled Breaker 1v1:ing a Hover Porc:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This player doesn't shoot the barrels and I need to talk to her about that. But you can see how she tries her darnest not to get kapkaned and how the porc player bases his entire strategy around getting this Breaker kapkaned. This is how it works on PC platform.

 

1 minute ago, RoughMonkey said:

If you’re instant dead to a porc guy then learn to build or learn to play.

porcs die to almost everything.

Range > Porcs

Spark > Porcs

Kappcan > Porcs

MGs > Porcs (just shoot the barrels duh.)

Hovers > Porcs

and so on and so on.

wait!! I have an idea why don’t we make Porcs a huge orange thing that can be seen from a mile away, also let make the weapon have random aim that goes all over the place making it hard to hit someone even at point blank.

hmmmmmm.... wait a second, they are already like that. LoL

You've both inspired me. Video footage coming. You have 0 idea how hard I work for piddling results to die to a brainless and skill-less weapon. But I get it, you can only see what you've seen. You've only got a mind for the meta. But after I post this, just know: we're not gonna confirm to one of six meta builds, which will be your answer. I just want you to be able to appreciate that I'm doing something you've never seen, and you have nowhere near the talent to pull off. I lose to meta quite often, but then again, it's literally called the Most Effective Tactic Available (as in, all you gotta do to the get known commodities of results is conform and drive what is known to be the best, at the current state the game. Right now that is grab a wedge with relic close range weapons, put relic range weapons on a hover, or spam Porcs on a hover. Little niches pop up time to time, like the horizontal mandrake and the ever present lance sparkvester.) 

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6 hours ago, HammeredByNature said:

The rest are just designed to ruin the weapon so the the developers may as well delete it if they chose any other of your ideas..

May as well delete them? You are off your rocker. I do a detailed list of multiple avenues to go down to try to bring this OP weapon down closer to it's brethren, and do it with thoughtful, mild nerfs, and you say I'm hating the weapon so hard I can't see straight. Yup, you're off your rocker. 

My Punisher took a 15% damage nerf and the Breaker got 5% more damage as an apology to a bad perk and was granted invincibility on top of it. But yeah, a -10% nerf to a weapon that can easily murder a Leviathan with 11 (3x Porc, cham., Collosus, echo) is clearly a frothing at the mouth solution. 

Turn your hammer around and swing real hard for me bud. 

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@DHawk216

17 minutes ago, DHawk216 said:

 I just want you to be able to appreciate that I'm doing something you've never seen, and you have nowhere near the talent to pull off.

You're embarrassing yourself, Just stop. 

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1 minute ago, Calibrated said:

@DHawk216

You're embarrassing yourself, Just stop. 

Make sure you drop a like and subscribe on my video my man!

 

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